Why didn't the apostles follow Jesus instruction when baptizing?

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Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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#21
I don't think we can pass it off as semantics because in 2 Thess. 1:7-10. Paul tells us that the Lord Jesus is responsible for judgement and sentences everyone who does not obey his gospel everlasting punishment. It would have not been correct if Paul would have used the name of Jesus Christ instead of the Lord Jesus here because Jesus Christ is not the one responsible for judgement. If you study the differences in the names of Jesus used throughout the new testament there is a clear distinction. But it is the apostles who all agreed on using the different names.
I suggest you learn what a circular argument is. You just made one. It's not valid.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
13,506
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#22
Jesus said "...go into all the world baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" but the apostles baptized differently. Why? We see in Acts that the apostles baptized some in the name of Jesus Christ and others in the name of the Lord Jesus.
Since there are no contradictions in the Bible, the apostles obeyed Christ in all things. However, when Luke wrote Acts, he simply did not repeat the exact words in Matthew 28:19.
 
Sep 14, 2019
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#23
clarify please, do you believe Jesus is God in his own right or that he only contained god in him?
Jesus is the image of living God and the Bright Morning Star, the Root and Offspring of David. This tells me that he is the angel of God and the angel of the Lamb so it appears that these two spiritual beings inhabited his body. But that doesn't mean Jesus is not a real person because Revelation tells us he sent "his" angel which would indicate that he is a free will agent of the most high. But I do wonder who the angel of Jesus is because he sent his angel to give the Bible as a testimony for the churches as Rev 22:16 tells us. I wonder if his angel is Jesus Christ :)
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
16,637
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#24
Jesus is the image of living God and the Bright Morning Star, the Root and Offspring of David. This tells me that he is the angel of God and the angel of the Lamb so it appears that these two spiritual beings inhabited his body. But that doesn't mean Jesus is not a real person because Revelation tells us he sent "his" angel which would indicate that he is a free will agent of the most high. But I do wonder who the angel of Jesus is because he sent his angel to give the Bible as a testimony for the churches as Rev 22:16 tells us. I wonder if his angel is Jesus Christ :)
Do you believe that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh?
 

Whispered

Well-known member
Aug 17, 2019
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www.christiancourier.com
#26
Jesus said "...go into all the world baptizing in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" but the apostles baptized differently. Why? We see in Acts that the apostles baptized some in the name of Jesus Christ and others in the name of the Lord Jesus. It appears that the difference is if they received the Holy Spirit they were baptized in the name of Jesus Christ but if they had not received the Holy Spirit they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Why don't we baptize like they did? Is it only because of what Jesus said or is it because it is too difficult to determine whether someone has received the Holy Spirit?

Acts 8:16-17 - because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they had simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 2:38 - Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:48 - Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have.” 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

Acts 19:5 - and asked them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” They answered, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
Do you notice something about that verse of the Book of Matthew chapter 28 and verse 19? Baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost?
The three 'names' are not spoken of in verse 19 in plural form. "Baptize in the names...."
Baptize in the name of, singular.
The Father IS the Holy Ghost. And Jesus was the Father. (Call his name Emmanuel which means, God with us) Look to the Old Testament Book of Isaiah chapter 9 verse 6.

The grammar therefore in verse 19 may be off a bit but one is suppose to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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#27
Jesus is the image of living God and the Bright Morning Star, the Root and Offspring of David. This tells me that he is the angel of God and the angel of the Lamb so it appears that these two spiritual beings inhabited his body. But that doesn't mean Jesus is not a real person because Revelation tells us he sent "his" angel which would indicate that he is a free will agent of the most high. But I do wonder who the angel of Jesus is because he sent his angel to give the Bible as a testimony for the churches as Rev 22:16 tells us. I wonder if his angel is Jesus Christ :)
Hebrews 1 J.B. Phillips New Testament (PHILLIPS)
1 1-4 God, who gave our forefathers many different glimpses of the truth in the words of the prophets, has now, at the end of the present age, given us the truth in the Son. Through the Son God made the whole universe, and to the Son he has ordained that all creation shall ultimately belong. This Son, radiance of the glory of God, flawless expression of the nature of God, himself the upholding principle of all that is, effected in person the reconciliation between God and man and then took his seat at the right hand of the majesty on high—thus proving himself, by the more glorious name that he has won, far greater than all the angels of God.

Scripture endorses this superiority

5-14 For to which of the angels did he ever say such words as these: ‘You are my Son, today I have begotten you?’ Or, again ‘I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?’ Further, when he brings his first-born into this world of men, he says: ‘Let all the angels of God worship him’ This is what he says of the angels: ‘Who makes his angels spirits and his ministers a flame of fire’ But when he speaks of the Son, he says: ‘Your throne, O God, is forever and ever; a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of your kingdom. You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you with the oil of gladness more than your companions’. He also says: ‘You, Lord, in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands; they will perish, but you remain; and they will all grow old like a garment; like a cloak you will fold them up, and they will be changed. But you are the same, and your years will not fail’. But does he ever say this of any of the angels: ‘Sit at my right hand, till I make your enemies your footstool?’ Surely the angels are no more than spirits in the service of God, commissioned to serve the heirs of God’s salvation.

Colossians 1:15-20 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
The Son of God Is the Same as God
15 No one can see God,
but the Son is exactly like God.
He rules over everything that has been made.[a]
16 Through his power all things were made:
things in heaven and on earth, seen and not seen—
all spiritual rulers, lords, powers, and authorities.
Everything was made through him and for him.

17 The Son was there before anything was made.
And all things continue because of him.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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#28
Jesus is the image of living God and the Bright Morning Star, the Root and Offspring of David. This tells me that he is the angel of God and the angel of the Lamb so it appears that these two spiritual beings inhabited his body. But that doesn't mean Jesus is not a real person because Revelation tells us he sent "his" angel which would indicate that he is a free will agent of the most high. But I do wonder who the angel of Jesus is because he sent his angel to give the Bible as a testimony for the churches as Rev 22:16 tells us. I wonder if his angel is Jesus Christ :)

Revelation 22:16 Easy-to-Read Version (ERV)
16 “I, Jesus, have sent my angel to tell you these things for the churches. I am the descendant from the family of David. I am the bright morning star.”



One does not send themselves.

Acts 15:2
Paul and Barnabas were against this teaching and argued with these men about it. So the group decided to send Paul, Barnabas, and some others to Jerusalem to talk more about this with the apostles and elders.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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#29
Do you notice something about that verse of the Book of Matthew chapter 28 and verse 19? Baptize in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost?
The three 'names' are not spoken of in verse 19 in plural form. "Baptize in the names...."
Baptize in the name of, singular.
The Father IS the Holy Ghost. And Jesus was the Father. (Call his name Emmanuel which means, God with us) Look to the Old Testament Book of Isaiah chapter 9 verse 6.

The grammar therefore in verse 19 may be off a bit but one is suppose to be baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
VIII. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit Are Distinct Persons
A. Matt. 28:19
1. "the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit": use of definite article before each personal noun indicates distinct persons unless explicitly stated otherwise; compare Rev. 1:17; 2:8, 26
2. The views that "Father" and "Son" are distinct persons but not the Holy Spirit, or that the Holy Spirit is not a person at all, or that all three are different offices or roles of one person, are impossible in view of the grammar (together with the fact that in Scripture a "spirit" is a person unless context shows otherwise).
3. Does singular "name" prove that the three are one person? No; cf. Gen. 5:2; 11:14; 48:6; and esp. 48:16

...

C. God the Father and the Son Jesus Christ are two persons


1. The salutations: Rom. 1:7; 1 Cor. 1:3; 2 Cor. 1:2; Gal. 1:3; Eph. 1:2; 6:23; Phil. 1:2; 1 Thess. 1:1; 2 Thess. 1:1, 2; 1 Tim. 1:1, 2; 2 Tim. 1:2; Tit. 1:4; Phm. 3; James 1:1; 2 Pet. 1:2; 2 John 3


2. Two witnesses: John 5:31-32; 8:16-18; cf. Num. 35:30; Deut. 17:6; 19:15


3. The Father sent the Son: John 3:16-17; Gal. 4:4; 1 John 4:10; etc.; cf. John 1:6; 17:18; 20:21


4. The Father and the Son love each other: John 3:35; 5:20; 14:31; 15:9; 17-23-26; cf. Matt. 3:17 par.; 17:5 par.; 2 Pet. 1:17


5. The Father speaks to the Son, and the Son speaks to the Father: John 11:41-42; 12:28; 17:1-26; etc.


6. The Father knows the Son, and the Son knows the Father: Matt. 11:27; Luke 10:22; John 7:29; 8:55; 10:15


7. Jesus our Advocate with the Father: 1 John 2:1


D. Jesus is not God the Father


1. Isa. 9:6: "Father of eternity" means eternal; compare other names formed with word "father": Abialbon, "father of strength" = strong (2 Sam. 23:31); Abiasaph, "father of gathering" = gatherer (Ex. 6:24); Abigail, a woman's name(!), "father of exultation" = exulting (1 Chron. 2:16).


2. John 10:30


a. Jesus did not say, "I am the Father," nor did He say, "the Son and the Father are one person."


b. The first person plural esmen ("we are") implies two persons.


c. The neuter word for "one" (hen) is used, implying essential unity but not personal unity (compare John 17:21-23).


3. John 5:43: Jesus' coming in His Father's name means not that He was the Father because He had the Father's name, but that, while others come in their own name (or their own authority), Jesus does not; He comes in His Father's name (on His Father's authority).


4. John 8:19; 16:3: Ignorance of Jesus is indeed ignorance of the Father, but that does not prove that Jesus is the one He calls "My Father."


5. John 14:6-11


a. Jesus and the Father are one being, not one person.


b. Jesus said, "I am in the Father," not "I am the Father."

c. The statement, "the Father is in Me," does not mean Jesus is the Father; compare John 14:20; 17:21-23.
6. John 14:18: An older adult brother can care for his younger siblings, thus preventing them from being "orphans," without being their father.
7. Colossians 2:9: Does not mean that Jesus is the Father, or that Jesus is an incarnation of the Father; rather, since "Godhead" (theotês) means Deity, the state of being God, the nature of God, Jesus is fully God, but not the only person who is God. "The Godhead" here does not = the Father (note that Jesus is in the Father, John 10:38; 14:10, 11; 17:21), but the nature of the Father.
8. The Father and the Son are both involved in various activities: raising Jesus (Gal. 1:1; John 2:19-22), raising the dead (John 5:21); 6:39-40, 44, 54, 1 Cor. 6:14), answering prayer (John 14:13-14; 15:16; 16:23), sending the Holy Spirit (John 14:16; 15:26; 16:7), drawing people to Jesus (John 6:44; 12:32), etc. These common works do prove that the two persons are both God, but not that Jesus is the Father
E. The Son existed before his Incarnation, even before creation
1. Prov. 30:4: This is not predictive prophecy; "prophecy" in 30:1 translates massa, which is rendered elsewhere as "burden."
2. The Son created all things: See VI.E.1
3. Jesus was "with" (pros or para) God the Father before creation: John 1:1; 17:5; pros in John 1:1 does not mean "pertaining to," although it does in Hebrews 2:17; 5:1 (which use pros with ta).
4. Jesus, the Son of God, existed before John the Baptist (who was born before Jesus): John 1:15, cf. 1:14-18, 29-34
5. Jesus, the Son, came down from heaven, sent from the Father, and went back to heaven, back to the Father: John 3:13, 31; 6:33; 38, 41, 46, 51, 56-58, 62; 8:23, 42; 13:3; 16:27-28; cf. Acts 1:10-11; cf. the sending of the Holy Spirit, John 16:5-7; 1 Pet. 1:12
6. Jesus, speaking as the Son (John 8:54-56), asserts His eternal preexistence before Abraham: John 8:58
7. The Son explicitly said to exist "before all things": Col. 1:17, cf. 1:12-20
8. These statements cannot be dismissed as true only in God's foreknowledge
a. We are all "in God's mind" before creation; yet such passages as John 1:1 and John 17:5 clearly mean to say something unusual about Christ.
b. To say that all things were created through Christ means that He must have existed at creation.
c. No one else in Scripture is ever said to have been with God before creation.
9. Texts which speak of the Son being begotten "today" do not mean He became the Son on a certain day, since they refer to His exaltation at the resurrection (Acts 13:33; Heb. 1:3-5; 5:5; cf. Psa. 2:7; cf. also Rom. 1:4).
F. Jesus is not the Holy Spirit
1. The Holy Spirit is "another Comforter": John 14:16; compare 1 John 2:1.
2. Jesus sent the Holy Spirit: John 15:26; 16:7.
3. The Holy Spirit exhibits humility in relation to, and seeks to glorify, Jesus (John 16:13-14).
4. The Son and the Holy Spirit are distinguished as two persons in Matt. 28:19.
5. The Holy Spirit descended upon Jesus: Luke 3:22.
6. Is Jesus the Holy Spirit?
a. 2 Cor. 3:17: the Spirit is here called "Lord" in the sense of being Yahweh or God, not Jesus (cf. v. 16, citing Ex. 34:34; cf. v. 17 in the Revised English Bible); note Acts 28:25-27, cf. Isa. 6:8-10.
b. 1 Cor. 15:45: Jesus is "a life-giving Spirit," not in the sense that He is the Holy Spirit whom He sent at Pentecost, but in the sense that He is the glorified God-man; and as God He is Spirit by nature. All three persons of the Trinity are Spirit, though there are not three divine Spirits; and only one person is designated "the Holy Spirit."
c. Rom. 8:27, 34: the fact that two persons intercede for us is consistent with the fact that we have two Advocates (John 14:16; Rom. 8:26; 1 John 2:1).
d. John 14:18: Jesus here refers to His appearances to the disciples after the resurrection (compare 14:19), not to the coming of the Spirit.
e. Jesus and the Holy Spirit are both involved in various activities: raising Jesus (John 2:19-19-22); Rom. 8:9-11), raising the dead (John 5:21; 6:39-40, 44, 54, Rom. 8:9-11), dwelling in the believer (John 14:16; 2 Cor. 13:5; Col. 1:27), interceding for the believer (Rom. 8:26; Heb. 7:25), sanctifying believers (Eph. 5:26; 1 Pet. 1:2), etc. These works prove that the two persons are both God, but not that Jesus is the Holy Spirit.
G. The Father is not the Holy Spirit
1. The Father sent the Holy Spirit: John 14:15; 15:26.
2. The Holy Spirit intercedes with the Father for us: Rom. 8:26-27.
3. The Father and the Holy Spirit are distinguished as two persons in Matt. 28:19.
4. Is the Father the Holy Spirit?
a. Matt. 1:18; Luke 1:35: It is argued that the Holy Spirit is the Father of the incarnate Son of God; this argument ignores the fact that the "conception" is not a product of physical union between a man and a woman!
b. The Father and the Holy Spirit are both said to be active in various activities; the resurrection of Jesus (Gal. 1:1; Rom. 8:11), comforting Christians (2 Cor. 1:3-4; John 14:26), sanctifying Christians (Jude 1; 1 Pet. 1:2), etc. The most these facts prove is that the two work together; they do not prove the two are one person.
 

TheLearner

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Jan 14, 2019
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#30
B. The New Testament presents a consistent triad of Father, Son, Holy Spirit (God, Christ, Spirit): Matt. 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:34; also Luke 1:35; 3:21-22 par.; 4:1-12; John 4:10-25; 7:37-39; 14-16; 20:21-22; Acts 1:4-8; 2:33, 38-39; 5:3-4, 9, 30-32; 7:55-56; 10:36-38, 44-48; 11:15-18; 15:8-11; 20:38; 28:25-31; Rom. 1:1-4; 5:5-10; 8:2-4, 9-11, 14-17; 1 Cor. 6:11; 12:4-6, 11-12, 18; 2 Cor. 1:19-22; 3:6-8, 14-18; Gal. 3:8-14; 4:4-7; Eph. 1:3-17; 2:18, 21-22; 3:14-19; 4:4-6, 29-32; 5:18-20; Phil. 3:3; 1 Thess. 1:3-6; 2 Thess. 2:13-14; Tit. 3:4-6; Heb. 2:3-4; 9:14; 10:28-31; 1 Pet. 1:2; 1 John 3:21-24; 4:13-14; Jude 20-21; Rev. 2:18, 27-29.
 

Whispered

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Aug 17, 2019
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#33
The Biblical Basis of the
Doctrine of the Trinity:
An Outline Study


By Robert M. Bowman, Jr.
http://www.apologetics.com

"In the name of," translates to mean, by authority of, or, by the power of, or, on behalf of.
There are not three separate and distinct powers ruling Heaven and Earth. The word, God, is both a noun and a verb. God has many names in scripture however, God, is not one of them. Yahweh is the Holy Spirit. And Emmanuel was God.
One. Not three.
Christianity is a Monotheist faith not a polytheistic faith.



The Book of Zechariah chapter 14 and verse 9
And Jehovah shall be King over all the earth: in that day shall Jehovah be one, and his name one.


The Book of Acts chapter 2 verses 36 thru 41
36"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both LORD and Messiah." 37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" 38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off-for all whom the LORD our God will call." 40With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." 41Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
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#35
"In the name of," translates to mean, by authority of, or, by the power of, or, on behalf of.
There are not three separate and distinct powers ruling Heaven and Earth. The word, God, is both a noun and a verb. God has many names in scripture however, God, is not one of them. Yahweh is the Holy Spirit. And Emmanuel was God.
One. Not three.
Christianity is a Monotheist faith not a polytheistic faith.
.
here is the rest of the outline

The Biblical Basis of the
Doctrine of the Trinity:
An Outline Study


By Robert M. Bowman, Jr.
http://www.apologetics.com






Introduction


It is often alleged that the doctrine of the Trinity is not a biblical doctrine. While the word Trinity is not in the Bible, the substance of the doctrine is definitely biblical.


The following outline study presents an overview of the biblical basis of the doctrine of the Trinity. Comments on the texts have been kept to a bare minimum; the emphasis is on the many biblical texts themselves (about 700 references are listed, including references from 26 of the 27 books of the New Testament).


An exposition of many of the texts discussed here can be found in the author's book Why You Should Believe in the Trinity (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1989). Unfortunately, it is currently out of print, but you may be able to locate a copy through Amazon.com's out-of-print service.


Aproper evaluation of the biblical evidence for the doctrine of the Trinity will depend on the faithful application of sound principles of biblical interpretation. Here I will mention just two principles which, if followed, would prevent almost all interpretive errors on this subject.


The first is to interpret the implicit in light of the explicit. That is, texts that explicitly state that such-and-such is true are to govern our understanding of passages that do not address the issue directly. For example, many passages of the Bible state explicitly that God is omniscient, that is, that he knows all things, including the thoughts of men and all future events (1 Sam. 16:7; 1 Chron. 28:9, 17; Job 37:16; Psa. 139:1-4; Isa. 41:22-23; 42:9; 44:7; Jer. 17:10a). These texts must govern our understanding of passages which might seem to imply, but which do not assert, that God did not know something (e.g., Gen. 3:9-13; 4:9; 18:9, 20-21).


The other principle is that we interpret logically but not rationalistically. Using the same illustration, if God knows everything ahead of time, then logically He must have known that Adam and Eve would fall into sin. However, to argue that if God knew Adam and Eve would sin then they would not be responsible for their choosing to sin is not "logical," is rationalistic. It may be difficult to understand how persons could be responsible for their sinful actions if God knew ahead of time that they would sin, but it is not illogical (not self-contradictory) to say so.


It should be noted that a study of the Trinity should not be undertaken apart from a study of the nature of God.


I. There Is One God


A. One God: Explicit Statements


1. OT: Deut. 4:35; 39; 32:39; 2 Sam. 22:32; Isa. 37:20: 43:10; 44:6-8; 45:5; 14; 21-22; 46:9


2. NT: John 5:44; Rom. 3:30; 16:27; 1 Cor. 8:4-6; Gal. 3:20; Eph. 4:6; 1 Tim. 1:17; 2:5; James 2:19; Jude 25


B. None like God (in his essence)


1. Explicit statements: Ex. 8:10; 9:14; 15:11; 2 Sam. 7:22; 1 Kgs. 8:23; 1 Chr. 17:20; Psa. 86:8; Isa. 40:18, 25: 44:7; 46:5, 9; Jer. 10:6-7; Micah 7:18


2. Being like God a Satanic lie: Gen. 3:5; Isa. 14:14; John 8:44


3. Fallen man become "like God" only in that he took upon himself to know good and evil, not that he acquired godhood: Gen. 3:22


C. Only one true God: 2 Chr. 15:3; Jer. 10:10; John 17:3; 1 Thess. 1:9; 1 John 5:20-21


D. All other "gods" are therefore false gods (idols), not gods at all: Deut. 32:21; 1 Sam. 12:21; Psa. 96:5; Isa. 37:19; 41:23-24, 29; Jer. 2:11; 5:7; 16:20; 1 Cor. 8:4; 10:19-20


E. Demons, not gods, are the power behind false worship: Deut. 32:17; Psa. 106:37; 1 Cor. 10:20; Gal. 4:8


F. How human beings are meant to be "like God"


1. The image of God indicates that man is to represent God and share his moral character, not that man can be metaphysically like God: Gen. 1:26-27; 5:1; 1 Cor. 11:7; Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10


2. The goal of being like Christ has the following aspects only:


a. Sharing His moral character: 1 John 3:2; Rom. 8:29


b. Being raised with glorified, immortal bodies like His: Phil. 3:21; 1 Cor. 15:49


3. Becoming partakers of the divine nature refers again to moral nature ("having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust"), not metaphysical nature: 2 Pet. 1:4; see also Heb. 12:10; on the meaning of "partakers," see 1 Cor. 10:18, 20; 2 Cor. 1:17; 1 Pet. 5:1


G. Are mighty or exalted men gods?


1. Scripture never says explicitly that men are gods


2. Powerful, mighty men are explicitly said not to be gods: Ezek. 28:2, 9; Isa. 31:3; 2 Thess. 2:4


3. Men and God are opposite, exclusive categories: Num. 23:19; Isa. 31:3; Ezek. 28:2; Hosea 11:9; Matt. 19:26; John 10:33; Acts 12:22; 1 Cor. 14:2


4. Moses was "as God," not really a god: Ex. 4:16; 7:1


5. Ezek. 32:21 speaks of warriors or soldiers as "mighty gods," but in context they are so regarded by their pagan nations, not by God or Israel; cf. Ezek. 28:2, 9


6. The elohim before whom accused stood in Exodus was God Himself, not judges, as many translations incorrectly render: Ex. 22:8-9, 28; compare Deut. 19:17


7. The use of elohim in Psalm 82, probably in reference to wicked judges, as cited by Jesus in John 10:34-36, does not mean that men really can be gods.


a. It is Asaph, not the Lord, who calls the judges elohim in Psa. 82:1, 6. This is important, even though we agree that Psa. 82 is inspired.


b. Asaph's meaning is not "Although you are gods, you will die like men," but rather "I called you gods, but in fact you will all die like the men that you really are"


c. The Psalmist was no more saying that wicked judges were truly gods than he was saying that they were truly "sons of the Most High" (v. 6b)


d. Thus, Psa. 82:1 calls the judges elohim in irony. They had quite likely taken their role in judgment (cf. point 5 above) to mean they were elohim, or gods, and Asaph's message is that these so-called gods were mere men who would die under the judgment of the true elohim(vss. 1-2, 7-8)


e. Christ's use of this passage in John 10:34-36 does not negate the above interpretation of Psalm 82


f. The words, "The Scripture cannot be broken," means "the Scripture cannot go without having some ultimate fulfillment" (cf. John 7:23; Matt. 5:17). Thus Jesus is saying that what the OT judges were called in irony, He is in reality; He does what they could not do, and is what they could never be (see the Adam-Christ contrasts in Rom. 5:12-21 and 1 Cor. 15:21-22, 45 for a similar use of OT Scripture)


g. The clause, "those against whom the word of God came" (John 10:35) shows that this "word" was a word of judgment against the so-called gods; which shows that they were false gods, not really gods at all


h. Finally, these wicked men were certainly not "godlike" or "divine" by nature, so that in any case the use of elohim to refer to them must be seen as figurative, not literal


8. Even if men were gods (which they are not), this would be irrelevant to Jesus, since He was God as a preexistent spirit before creation: John 1:1
 

Melach

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Mar 28, 2019
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#36
so does this mean you dont believe in trinity? but more like oneness pentecostal?
"In the name of," translates to mean, by authority of, or, by the power of, or, on behalf of.
There are not three separate and distinct powers ruling Heaven and Earth. The word, God, is both a noun and a verb. God has many names in scripture however, God, is not one of them. Yahweh is the Holy Spirit. And Emmanuel was God.
One. Not three.
Christianity is a Monotheist faith not a polytheistic faith.



The Book of Zechariah chapter 14 and verse 9
And Jehovah shall be King over all the earth: in that day shall Jehovah be one, and his name one.


The Book of Acts chapter 2 verses 36 thru 41
36"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both LORD and Messiah." 37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?" 38Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off-for all whom the LORD our God will call." 40With many other words he warned them; and he pleaded with them, "Save yourselves from this corrupt generation." 41Those who accepted his message were baptized, and about three thousand were added to their number that day.
 

TheLearner

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#37
H. Are angels gods?


1. Scripture never explicitly states that angels are gods


2. Demonic spirits are not gods, 1 Cor. 10:20; Gal. 4:8; thus, being "mighty spirits" does not make angels gods


3. Satan is therefore also a false god: 2 Cor. 4:4


4. Psalm 8:5 does not teach that angels are gods


a. Psa. 8:5 is paraphrased in Heb. 2:7, not quoted literally (cf. Psa. 68:18 with Eph. 4:8). In Psa. 8:5, elohim certainly means God, not angels, since Psa. 8:3-8 parallels Gen. 1:1, 8 16, 26-28. Note that the Psalmist is speaking of man's exalted place in creation, whereas Hebrews is speaking of the lower place taken by Christ in becoming a man. Thus, Heb. 2:7 may not mean to equate angels with gods at all.


b. Even if Heb. 2:7 does imply that angels are "gods," in the context of Hebrews 1-2 these angels would be those falsely exalted above Christ: Note Heb. 1:6 (which quotes Psa. 97:7, which definitely speaks of "gods" in the sense of false gods); and cf. Col. 2:16 on the problem of the worship of angels.


5. Elsewhere in the Psalms angels, if spoken of as gods (or as "sons of the gods"), are considered false gods: Psa. 29:1; 86:8-10; 89:6; 95:3; 96:4-5; 97:7-9 (note that these false gods are called "angels" in the Septuagint); 135:5; 136:2; 138:1; cf. Ex. 15:11; 18:11; Deut. 10:17; 1 Chr. 16:25; 2 Chr. 2:5.


6. Even if the angels were gods (which the above shows they are not), that would be irrelevant to Jesus, since He is not an angelic being, but the Son who is worshipped by the angels as their Creator, Lord, and God: Heb. 1:1-13.


I. Conclusion: If there is only one God, one true God, all other gods being false gods, neither men nor angels being gods, and none even like God by nature - all of which the Bible says repeatedly and explicitly - then we must conclude that there is indeed only one God.


II. This One God Is Known in the OT as "Jehovah/Yahweh" ("The Lord")


A. Texts where Jehovah is said to be elohim or el: Deut. 4:35, 39; Psa. 100:3; etc.


B. Texts where the compound name "Jehovah God" (Yahweh Elohim) is used: Gen. 2:3; 9:26; 24:3; Ex. 3:15-18; 4:4; 2 Sam. 7:22, 25; etc.


C. Only one Yahweh/Jehovah: Deut. 6:4; Mark 12:29


D. Conclusion: Jehovah is the only God, the only El or Elohim


III. God Is a Unique, Incomprehensible Being


A. Only one God, thus unique: See I.A.


B. None are even like God: see I.B.


C. God cannot be fully comprehended: 1 Cor. 8:2-3


D. God can only be known insofar as the Son reveals Him: Matt. 11:25-27; John 1:18


E. Analogical language needed to describe God: Ezek. 1:26-28; Rev. 1:13-16


F. God is transcendent, entirely distinct from and different than the universe, as the carpenter is distinct from the bench


1. Separate from the world: Isa. 40:22; Acts 17:24


2. Contrasted with the world: Psa. 102:25-27; 1 John 2:15-17


3. Created the world: Gen. 1:1; Psa. 33:6; 102:25; Isa. 42:5; 44:24; John 1:3; Rom. 11:36; Heb. 1:2; 11:3
 

TheLearner

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#38
I. Conclusion: If there is only one God, one true God, all other gods being false gods, neither men nor angels being gods, and none even like God by nature - all of which the Bible says repeatedly and explicitly - then we must conclude that there is indeed only one God.


II. This One God Is Known in the OT as "Jehovah/Yahweh" ("The Lord")


A. Texts where Jehovah is said to be elohim or el: Deut. 4:35, 39; Psa. 100:3; etc.


B. Texts where the compound name "Jehovah God" (Yahweh Elohim) is used: Gen. 2:3; 9:26; 24:3; Ex. 3:15-18; 4:4; 2 Sam. 7:22, 25; etc.


C. Only one Yahweh/Jehovah: Deut. 6:4; Mark 12:29


D. Conclusion: Jehovah is the only God, the only El or Elohim


III. God Is a Unique, Incomprehensible Being


A. Only one God, thus unique: See I.A.


B. None are even like God: see I.B.


C. God cannot be fully comprehended: 1 Cor. 8:2-3


D. God can only be known insofar as the Son reveals Him: Matt. 11:25-27; John 1:18


E. Analogical language needed to describe God: Ezek. 1:26-28; Rev. 1:13-16


F. God is transcendent, entirely distinct from and different than the universe, as the carpenter is distinct from the bench


1. Separate from the world: Isa. 40:22; Acts 17:24


2. Contrasted with the world: Psa. 102:25-27; 1 John 2:15-17


3. Created the world: Gen. 1:1; Psa. 33:6; 102:25; Isa. 42:5; 44:24; John 1:3; Rom. 11:36; Heb. 1:2; 11:3
 

TheLearner

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#39
IV. Is God One Person?


A. God is one God (cf. I above), one Yahweh, one Lord (cf. II above), one Spirit (John 4:24)


B. However, the Bible never says that God is "one person"


1. Heb. 1:3 KJV speaks of God's "person," but the word used here, hupostasis, is translated "substance" in Heb. 11:1 KJV; also in Heb. 1:3 "God" refers specifically to the Father


2. Gal. 3:20 speaks of God as one party in the covenant between God and man, not as one person


3. Job 13:8 KJV speaks of God's "person," but ironically the Hebrew literally means "his faces"


C. The use of singular and plural pronouns for God


1. Over 7000 times God speaks or is spoken of with singular pronouns (I, He, etc.); but this is proper because God is a single individual being; thus these singular forms do not disprove that God exists as three "persons" as long as these persons are not separate beings


2. At least three times God speaks of or to himself using plural pronouns (Gen. 1:26; 3:22; 11:7), and nontrinitarian interpretation cannot account for these occurrences.


a. A plural reference to God and the angels is possible in Isa. 6:8, but not in the Genesis texts: in 1:26 "our image" is explained in 1:27, "in God's image"; in 3:22 "like one of us" refers back to 3:5, "like God."


b. The "literary plural" (possibly, though never clearly, attested in Paul) is irrelevant to texts in which God is speaking, not writing.


c. The "plural of deliberation" (as in "Let's see now...") is apparently unattested in biblical writings, and cannot explain Gen. 3:22 ("like one of us").


d. The "plural of amplitude" or of "fullness" (which probably does explain the use of the plural form elohim in the singular sense of "God") is irrelevant to the use of plural pronouns, and again cannot explain Gen. 3:22.


e. The "plural of majesty" is possibly attested in 1 Kgs. 12:9; 2 Chron. 10:9; more likely Ezra 4:18; but none of these are certain; and again, it cannot explain Gen. 3:22; also nothing in the context of the Genesis texts suggests that God is being presented particularly as King.


D. The uniqueness of God (cf. III above) should prepare us for the possibility that the one divine Being exists uniquely as a plurality of persons
 

TheLearner

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#40
V. The Father of Jesus Christ Is God


A. Explicit statements: John 17:3; 1 Cor. 8:6; etc.


B. The expression, "the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ": 2 Cor. 1:3; Eph. 1:3; 1 Pet. 1:3


VI. Jesus Christ Is God


A. Explicit statements


1. Isa. 9:6; note 10:21. Translations which render "mighty hero," are inconsistent in their rendering of 10:21. Also note that Ezek. 32:21 is (a) not in the same context, as is Isa. 10:21, and (b) speaking of false gods, cf. I.G.5. above.


2. John 1:1 Even if Jesus is here called "a god" (as some have argued), since there is only one God, Jesus is that God. However, the "a god" rendering is incorrect. Other passages using the Greek word for God (theos) in the same construction are always rendered "God": Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38; John 8:54; Phil 2:13; Heb. 11:16. Passages in which a shift occurs from ho theos ("the God") to theos("God") never imply a shift in meaning: Mark 12:27; Luke 20:37-38; John 3:2; 13:3; Rom. 1:21; 1 Thess. 1:9; heb. 9:14; 1 Pet. 4:10-11


3. John 1:18. The best manuscripts have "the unique God" (monogenês, frequently rendered "only-begotten," actually means "one of a kind," "unique," though in the NT always in the context of a son or daughter). Even if one translates "only-begotten," the idea is not of a "begotten god" as opposed to an "unbegotten god."


4. John 20:28. Compare Rev. 4:11, where the same construction is used in the plural ("our") instead of the singular ("my"). See also Psa. 35:23. Note that Christ's response indicates that Thomas' acclamation was not wrong. Also note that John 20:17 does show that the Father was Jesus' "God" (due to Jesus becoming a man), but the words "my God" as spoken by Thomas later in the same chapter must mean no less than in v. 17. Thus, what the Father is to Jesus in His humanity, Jesus is to Thomas (and therefore to us as well).


5. Acts 20:28: "the church of God which He purchased with His own blood." The variant readings (e.g. "the church of the Lord") show that the original was understood to mean "His own blood," not "the blood of His own [Son]" (since otherwise no one would have thought to change it). Thus all other renderings are attempts to evade the startling clarity and meaning of this passage.


6. Rom. 9:5. While grammatically this is not the only possible interpretation, the consistent form of doxologies in Scripture, as well as the smoothest reading of the text, supports the identification of Christ as "God" in this verse.


7. Titus 2:13. Grammatically and contextually, this is one of the strongest proof-texts for the deity of Christ. Sharp's first rule, properly understood, proves that the text should be translated "our great God and Savior" (cf. same construction in Luke 20:37; Rev. 1:6; and many other passages). Note also that Paul always uses the word "manifestation" ("appearing") of Christ: 2 Thess. 2:8; 1 Tim. 6:14; 2. Tim. 1:10; 4:1, 8.


8. Heb. 1:8. The rendering, "God is your throne," is nonsense - God is not a throne, He is the one who sits on the throne! Also, "God is your throne," if taken to mean God is the source of one's rule, could be said about any angelic ruler - but Hebrews 1 is arguing that Jesus is superior to the angels.


9. 2 Pet. 1:1. The same construction is used here as in Titus 2:13; see the parallel passages in 2 Pet. 1:11; 2:20; 3:2, 18.


10. 1 John 5:20. Note that the most obvious antecedent for "this" is Jesus Christ. Also note that the "eternal life" is Christ, as can be seen from 1:2.


B. Jesus is Jehovah/Yahweh


1. Rom. 10:9-13: Note the repeated "for," which links these verses closely together. The "Lord" of 10:13 must be the "Lord" of 10:9, 12.


2. Phil. 2:9-11. In context, the "name that is above every name" is "Lord" (vs. 11), i.e., Jehovah.


3. Heb. 1:10: Here God the Father addresses the Son as "Lord," in a quotation from Psa. 102:25 (cf. 102:24, where the person addressed is called "God"). Since here the Father addresses the Son as "Lord," this cannot be explained away as a text in which a creature addresses Christ as God/Lord in a merely representational sense.


4. 1 Pet. 2:3-4: This verse is nearly an exact quotation of Psa. 34:8a, where "Lord" is Jehovah. From 1 Pet. 2:4-8 it is also clear that "the Lord" in v. 3 is Jesus.


5. 1 Pet. 3:14-15: these verses are a clear reference to Isa. 8:12-13, where the one who is to be regarded as holy is Jehovah.


6. Texts where Jesus is spoken of as the "one Lord" (cf. Deut. 6:4; Mark 12:29): 1 Cor. 8:6; Eph. 4:5; cf. Rom. 10:12; 1 Cor. 12:5.


C. Jesus has the titles of God


1. Titles belonging only to God


a. The first and the last: Rev. 1:17; 22:13; cf. Isa. 44:6


b. King of kings and Lord of lords: 1 Tim. 6:15; Rev. 17:14; 19:16


2. Titles belonging in the ultimate sense only to God


a. Savior: Luke 2:11; John 4:42; 1 John 4:14; Titus 2:13, cf. v. 10; etc.; cf. Isa. 43.11; 45:21-22; 1 Tim. 4:10; on Jesus becoming the source of salvation; Heb. 5:9, cf. Ex. 15:2; Psa. 118:14, 21


b. Shepherd: John 10:11; Heb. 13:20; cf. Psa. 23:1; Isa. 40:11


c. Rock: 1 Cor. 10:4; cf. Isa. 44:8


D. Jesus received the honors due to God alone


1. Honor: John 5:23


2. Love: Matt. 10:37


3. Prayer: John 14:14 (text debated, but in any case it is Jesus who answers the prayer); Acts 1:24-25; 7:59-60 (cf. Luke 23:34, 46); Rom. 10:12-13; 1 Cor. 1:2; 2 Cor. 12:8-10 (where "the Lord" must be Jesus, cf. v. 9); 2 Thess. 2:16-17; etc.


4. Worship (proskuneô): Matt. 28:17; Heb. 1:6 (cf. Psa. 97:7); cf. Matt 4:10


5. Religious or sacred service (latreuô): Rev. 22:13


6. Doxological praise: 2 Tim. 4:18; 2 Pet. 3:18; Rev. 1:5-6; 5:13


7. Faith: John 3:16; 14:1; etc.


E. Jesus does the works of God


1. Creation: John 1:3; 1 Cor. 8:6; Col. 1:16-17; Heb. 1:2; Rev. 3:14 (where archê probably means ruler); on "through" and "in" cf. Rom. 11:36; Heb. 2:10; Acts 17:28; cf. also Isa. 44:24


2. Sustains the universe: Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:3, 11-12


3. Salvation:


a. In General: See C.2.a. above


b. Forgives sins: Matt. 9:1-8; Mark 2:1-12; Luke 5:17-26; note that Jesus forgives sins not committed against Him.


4. All of them: John 5:17-29 (including judgment, cf. Matt. 25:31-46; 2 Cor. 5:10)


F. Jesus has all the incommunicable attributes of God


1. All of them: John 1:1; Phil. 2:6; Col. 1:15; 2:9; Heb. 1:3


2. Self-existent: John 5:26


3. Unchangeable: Heb. 1:10-12 (in the same sense as YHWH); 13:8


4. Eternal: John 1:1; 8:58; 17:5; Col. 1:17; Heb. 1:2


5. Omnipresent: Matt. 18:20; 28:20; John 3:13; Eph. 1:23; 4:10; Col. 3:11


6. Omniscient: John 16:30; 21:17; cf. 2:23-24


7. Incomprehensible: Matt. 11:25-27


G. Jesus is "equal with God"


1. John 5:18: Although John is relating what the Jews understood Jesus to be claiming, the context shows they were basically right: In v. 17 claimed to be exempt from the Sabbath along with His Father, and in 5:19-29 Jesus claimed to do all of the world of the Father and to deserve the same honor as the Father


2. Phil. 2:6: Jesus did not attempt to seize recognition by the world as being equal with God, but attained that recognition by humbling himself and being exalted by the Father (vv. 7-11)