Why Do Christians Ignore Most of the Old Testament Rules?

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Aug 27, 2017
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well what do you know

I had a feeling about you and I checked that very thread and it seems you are already tucked in, having found your new home

unless you are, of course, one of the many notorious members who have been banned from that thread for becoming volatile and have returned under a pseudonym :unsure:
 
Dec 1, 2018
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oh hello. do I know you? let's see...hmmm...you just joined.

I don't know you at all

you also do not know me at all and so you have gone off in all directions railing against me

btw, I am not a preacher nor do I preach. ya got that wrong too ;)

one more btw: there is a thread you will absolutely love and you will never be the same after joining it

here ya go: Not by Works

it is almost 4000 pages long and I promise you (and I'm not known for making promises cause they are too easy to break but in this case, I am making a promise) you will have all the talk about works, salvation and all that, that one person can stand in a lifetime

I suspect it was made just for people like you
I started to go through it and already i see the same i see everyplace. people quoting PART of scripture to justify their beliefs rather than look at the weight of scripture. I just wrote a book and went through this. the problem is that people don't understand the basic idea of what belief (or faith) really are. would you care to point me to a page with discussion on that?
 
Aug 27, 2017
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i will look at it. not going off on you; responding to you.

dude you are already there LOL!

I started to go through it and already i see the same i see everyplace. people quoting PART of scripture to justify their beliefs rather than look at the weight of scripture. I just wrote a book and went through this. the problem is that people don't understand the basic idea of what belief (or faith) really are. would you care to point me to a page with discussion on that?
oh you wrote a book? so now you are an expert!

but of course. do carry on
 
Dec 1, 2018
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oh hello. do I know you? let's see...hmmm...you just joined.

I don't know you at all

you also do not know me at all and so you have gone off in all directions railing against me

btw, I am not a preacher nor do I preach. ya got that wrong too ;)

one more btw: there is a thread you will absolutely love and you will never be the same after joining it

here ya go: Not by Works

it is almost 4000 pages long and I promise you (and I'm not known for making promises cause they are too easy to break but in this case, I am making a promise) you will have all the talk about works, salvation and all that, that one person can stand in a lifetime

I suspect it was made just for people like you
Perhaps you can just confirm what i understand you to say: it does not matter not how you live your life at all to your salvation....correct?
 
Aug 27, 2017
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I guess it would depend on who led me to write it wouldn't it?

wait...wait...

don't tell me now....


ummm God?

yup ... every Christian book out there ... God told 'em to write it

listen...I would like to say it's been fun, but it hasn't and you have no clue what I believe

you totally misread my post and I don't want to discuss with someone who does that and goes flying off in all directions berating someone they do NOT know

so, yah know, I'm going to let you move on .. I doubt there is room to change your mind even by saying you did not get my post right at all...of course maybe God is telling me to move on so I don't have to give account of this many words which leads to sin
 
Dec 1, 2018
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wait...wait...

don't tell me now....


ummm God?

yup ... every Christian book out there ... God told 'em to write it

listen...I would like to say it's been fun, but it hasn't and you have no clue what I believe

you totally misread my post and I don't want to discuss with someone who does that and goes flying off in all directions berating someone they do NOT know

so, yah know, I'm going to let you move on .. I doubt there is room to change your mind even by saying you did not get my post right at all...of course maybe God is telling me to move on so I don't have to give account of this many words which leads to sin
did i claim that? no you read into it. in any event I apologize if i mis-characterized what you said.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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Do you know what the law states? Here it is. Maimonides gathered them together since they are scattered throughout the Torah. There are 613 of them. They are divided in many ways. All, men, women, location only etc. etc. Just try keeping them perfectly. Only Jesus did it.

In addition to the 10 commandments there are the laws scattered through the Torah.

List of the 613 laws in the Torah
http://www.gods-word-first.org/bible-study/613commandments.html

Discussion about the 613 laws in the Torah
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_commandments
I have read them. They give us the spirit of God. They are written down when people had no jails, no police, and the accepted way of most was killing babies and cutting off hands for stealing an apple. God gives us historical information today to explain some of it, we are to use it.

We are told that we are human and as a result we cannot be Gods. There is nowhere in scripture that we are instructed to be lawless because of this. Even in or playing of games in sports we are not perfect, but people play games and watch games. No one says they won't play or watch because perfection isn't reached, yet Christians are always saying this about God's law.

As we are told in scripture that will happen, people who join with God to work at law keeping are scoffed at while they clap and are delighted with playing at sports for perfection yet sports are lets pretend for fun and law keeping is real and truth.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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no actually that is not true

we understand that Jesus fulfilled the obligations of the law and presented to His Father a sinless and perfect sacrifice and the matter of the law and animal sacrifice is no longer in effect...unless someone puts themself back under it. all non-believers are still answerable to God in the sense that they have not been forgiven of their sins

understand that Jaume seems to either misunderstand, or deliberately continues to actually create posts that are not very truthful with regards to those who oppose his stance on the law.

Jesus actually fulfilled the obligations of the law which is something law keepers cannot seem to wrap their heads around

further, they continue in their confusion by stating that we have no regard for the commandments of God and do not believe we are accountable for our sin

actually, we are no longer accountable for our sin, but not because we think sinning does not matter, but because God no longer sees our sin

either Jesus is our High Priest or He isn't.
Jesus paid for our sins so we may have forgiveness. Do you believe this forgiveness that you are freely given frees you to sin? Paul always said to that idea "heaven forbid".

Why are you gossiping with untruths about anyone who puts on Christ, who dies to sin with Christ, and puts sin out of their life as much as they can being human? It sounds like demons against Christ in our life.
 

LPT

Senior Member
Dec 24, 2017
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The OT laws are typically a topic that comes up in most Bible forums. This article brings out some very good points when we ask ourselves this question today.
Blessings.



BIBLESTUDYTOOLS.COM
Reading through the Old Testament can be a jarring experience, even for Christians. The early Bible is practically brimming with commands and laws which sound contrary to Christ’s message today. Do you enjoy eating shrimp? Sorry, that’s against the rules (Leviticus 11:10). Not a fan of beards? Well that’s just too bad (Leviticus 19:27). Showing off your new tattoo? You ought to be ashamed (Leviticus 19:28)!

To someone outside the Church, it looks as though Christians are cherry-picking which verses they want to follow. That’s why author and theologian J.D. Greer believes it’s necessary for Christians to educate themselves on the three categories of Old-Testament law. In a recent blog post he writes,
“One of the most helpful ways to think about this is to look at the types of laws there are in the Old Testament. The 16th-century Reformer John Calvin saw that the NT seemed to treat the OT laws in three ways. There were Civil Laws, which governed the nation of Israel, encompassing not only behaviors, but also punishments for crimes. There were Ceremonial Laws about ‘clean’ and ‘unclean’ things, about various kinds of sacrifices, and other temple practices. And then there were the Moral Laws, which declared what God deemed right and wrong—the 10 Commandments, for instance.”
“For OT Israel, all three types of laws blended together. Breaking a civil or a ceremonial law was a moral problem; conversely, breaking a moral law had a civil (and often ceremonial) consequence. But they only went hand-in-hand because Israel was in a unique place historically, as both a nation and a worshiping community. ‘Separation of church and state’ wasn’t one of their core tenets. That’s not the case for the Church today, so the way we view the Law would have to look different.”


Greer goes on to argue that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus fulfilled the purpose of the law (Matthew 5:17). By this, he means that the original laws pointed toward God and his design for humanity. Jesus now serves as a living embodiment of both law and grace, allowing us to put aside the Civil and Ceremonial laws of Israel. This traditional approach is shared by the majority of Biblical scholars, including men such as Dr. Roger Barrier, who writes,
“Like many of the Ten Commandments, prohibitions against stealing and adultery and coveting transcend time and space. Jesus fulfilled the moral law by His perfect righteousness. Every commandment He obeyed. Every requirement He met. He lived up to every standard. He died for it on the cross...”
“In considering which parts of the Old Testament we can ignore and which we keep, we must delve into the concept of cultural differences. Many of the Laws are not applicable for us. We must compare their culture to ours in order to have good application.”


Instead of avoiding the complex subject of Old Testament laws, Christians should embrace the chance to study their faith. The world expects us to have answers when they start probing our beliefs, and it’s vital that believers be ready to speak the word of God with conviction. So don’t be afraid to read books like Leviticus and Deuteronomy, they’re just the beginning of God’s great story.
*Published 4/5/2016
Another holier than now, sit down and be quite you don’t practice none of it.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
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What?! I have posted your post info many times except for one part you overlook.

Jesus said "I did not come to abolish the law but to fulfill it." I understand what He is teacing in this lesson.
By fulfill he meant he kept the law perfectly. And of course that would happen.
However, when Jesus also said, not one jot nor tittle of the law would pass from the law until all is accomplished, not fulfilled,
meaning that the whole of the prophecy of Messiah would need occur before anything in the law would disappear. There is still more to come.

Matthew 5:18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
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Jesus paid for our sins so we may have forgiveness. Do you believe this forgiveness that you are freely given frees you to sin? Paul always said to that idea "heaven forbid".

Why are you gossiping with untruths about anyone who puts on Christ, who dies to sin with Christ, and puts sin out of their life as much as they can being human? It sounds like demons against Christ in our life.
No Christian who studies scripture could ever arrive at the conclusion our salvation gives us license to sin.
The law of God is inside us.
Romans 2:13 For it is not the hearers of the Law who are righteous before God, but it is the doers of the Law who will be declared righteous. 14 Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the Law, do by nature what the Law requires, they are a law to themselves,even though they do not have the Law, 15since they show that the work of the Law is written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts either accusing or defending them.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Jesus warns all who teach against even the least of the law that any who do this will be least in the Kingdom.
:geek:JESUS also told the rich young ruler that wanted to Inherit Eternal Life to keep the ten commandments but the Bible says that no one can keep the ten commandments perfectly so then somebody might ask the question,why would JESUS tell the rich young ruler to keep the Ten Commandments If It weren’t possible for any man to keep them perfectly?
 
Aug 27, 2017
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Jesus paid for our sins so we may have forgiveness. Do you believe this forgiveness that you are freely given frees you to sin? Paul always said to that idea "heaven forbid".

Why are you gossiping with untruths about anyone who puts on Christ, who dies to sin with Christ, and puts sin out of their life as much as they can being human? It sounds like demons against Christ in our life.
why are you using the word gossiping? all posts are public and I do not use the pm feature BECAUSE I do not want to hear anyone's private thoughts on someone else...which goes on far too often here, which I found out when I did use the pm feature

this thread is about lawkeeping...have you kept up with those many threads? do you not understand what lawkeeping is?

I have died to sin in Christ so am I gossiping about myself? no human can put sin out of their life through self effort. if you could, then anyone could be a Christian

as for the 'do I believe I am free to sin, I have to ask, why would you ask that? you responded to a post in which I actually wrote this:

understand that Jaume seems to either misunderstand, or deliberately continues to actually create posts that are not very truthful with regards to those who oppose his stance on the law.

Jesus actually fulfilled the obligations of the law which is something law keepers cannot seem to wrap their heads around

further, they continue in their confusion by stating that we have no regard for the commandments of God and do not believe we are accountable for our sin

actually, we are no longer accountable for our sin, but not because we think sinning does not matter, but because God no longer sees our sin

either Jesus is our High Priest or He isn't.


myself and MANY others in this forum have repeatedly made very clear that we do not believe in easy grace or continuing in sin

why is it that you and some others just cannot accept that? does it not fit in with the agenda of saying those who are not law keepers sin and think it is ok?

so tell me, how long do you and others intend to keep the false narrative going?

and for your information, some weeks back I point blank asked Jaume what he thought of Paul's writings...why don't you ask him since he does not exactly think much of them. if I have to, I can go back and find that admission, which is typical of Sabbath folk, and law keeping, but I really do have better ways to spend my time
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
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Matthew 19:16-19
"
And behold, one came to Him and said, "Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?" And He said to him, "Why are you asking Me about what is good? There is only One who is good; but if you wish to enter into life, keep the commandments." He *said to Him, "Which ones?" And Jesus said, "You shall not commit murder; You shall not commit adultery; You shall not steal; You shall not bear false witness; Honor your father and mother; and You shall love your neighbor as yourself."

  • Matthew 22:36-40 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" And He said to him, "'You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.' "This is the great and foremost commandment. "The second is like it, 'You shall love your neighbor as yourself.' "On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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why are you using the word gossiping? all posts are public and I do not use the pm feature BECAUSE I do not want to hear anyone's private thoughts on someone else...which goes on far too often here, which I found out when I did use the pm feature

this thread is about lawkeeping...have you kept up with those many threads? do you not understand what lawkeeping is?

I have died to sin in Christ so am I gossiping about myself? no human can put sin out of their life through self effort. if you could, then anyone could be a Christian

as for the 'do I believe I am free to sin, I have to ask, why would you ask that? you responded to a post in which I actually wrote this:

understand that Jaume seems to either misunderstand, or deliberately continues to actually create posts that are not very truthful with regards to those who oppose his stance on the law.

Jesus actually fulfilled the obligations of the law which is something law keepers cannot seem to wrap their heads around

further, they continue in their confusion by stating that we have no regard for the commandments of God and do not believe we are accountable for our sin

actually, we are no longer accountable for our sin, but not because we think sinning does not matter, but because God no longer sees our sin

either Jesus is our High Priest or He isn't.

myself and MANY others in this forum have repeatedly made very clear that we do not believe in easy grace or continuing in sin

why is it that you and some others just cannot accept that? does it not fit in with the agenda of saying those who are not law keepers sin and think it is ok?

so tell me, how long do you and others intend to keep the false narrative going?

and for your information, some weeks back I point blank asked Jaume what he thought of Paul's writings...why don't you ask him since he does not exactly think much of them. if I have to, I can go back and find that admission, which is typical of Sabbath folk, and law keeping, but I really do have better ways to spend my time
I used the word gossip because I wanted to get the thinking of the people who post against law keeping to think about what they are doing in a different way, and get them to realize it is not a good thing to do.

These anti law people take truths and somehow they come out distorted. It is true that we need God's help to put on Christ's way of acting, but this fact is put that we should make no effort ourselves to keep God's law? We are given free will, God isn't going to force His will on us, so it is true it is God in us that obeys and it is ALSO true that we have free will to obey.

Why, when you are trying to show how you believe God wants us to be it is something like "how is it that you people can't" and blah blah blah. Yet there are postings like "Jesus fulfilled the obligations to the law". I think you are basing that on that innocent blood of Christ paid for our sins, so in one sense it is true. The problem is when it is interpreted to mean that we don't have any obligation to obey Christ or as Paul puts it to die to sin and put on Christ.

You speak of believing we are not to sin, yet all the truths are pulled out and interpreted to mean we have no more responsibility for our sin. Or the Christ does not judge man but turns a blind eye to sin. All these have some basis in truth, for God is love who is sinless and His very essence it without sin. But Christ will return to judge. We are told that there is judgment, and sin brings on the results of sin. And here again, it is true that sin brings on its own results and it is also true that Christ forgives and forgets our sin.

It is also true that we must live with the results in this life of our sin. David proved that, for he was forgiven and was made pure and clean but he still paid. If you are caught stealing you go to jail even when God forgives you. David had to live with the results of his sins like his children dying, his son turning against him, etc. He died a broken man and he died a man forgiven and saved.
 
Jun 30, 2015
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I used the word gossip because I wanted to get the thinking of the people who post against law keeping to think about what they are doing in a different way, and get them to realize it is not a good thing to do.
"Gossip" is simply the wrong word and it introduces antagonism which is not needed... it's here in abundance already, sadly.

These anti law people
The negative characterization isn't needed either.

It is true that we need God's help to put on Christ's way of acting, but this fact is put that we should make no effort ourselves to keep God's law?
Do you stone those who commit adultery? Do you go to the temple in Jerusalem? Do you present your tithe to the Levite? Do you consider failure to uphold these laws as sin? If not, then you aren't "making effort to keep God's law."

Christ frees you from all of that. Why, as Paul asks, are you returning to those weak and miserable principles? It is for FREEDOM that Christ has set us free; not for subjection once again to the yoke of slavery.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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Paul and Jesus are quite clear on the mater of the law. The law was put in place to show us just how sinful we actually are. We are sin.
With out the aid of a savior we have no hope of salvation.
God sends in Jesus at just the right time to be that savior!
He died on the cross for our behalf so that through him we may have eternal life with God.
That new life we now have can gain nothing through the law. In fact the law is apposed to our new way of life. Love is the answer. Love of God and love of neighbor. A mind focused on how to love needs no law dictating good from bad.
We can gain nothing through the law? Jesus came at just the right time for our salvation? Have you read the first chapters of Genesis? God created His plan for our salvation at the beginning, Christ was for 4,000 YEARS before He came in the flesh.

We are told the law brings comfort, peace, it blesses, gives delight, is truth, it frees us, gives wisdom and good judgment--for a partial list of scripture's description of law.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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Do you stone those who commit adultery? Do you go to the temple in Jerusalem? Do you present your tithe to the Levite? Do you consider failure to uphold these laws as sin? If not, then you aren't "making effort to keep God's law."

Christ frees you from all of that. Why, as Paul asks, are you returning to those weak and miserable principles? It is for FREEDOM that Christ has set us free; not for subjection once again to the yoke of slavery.
Are you familiar with the lifestyle and culture of the world God worked in to teach love? No police and no jails. Read some of the laws of the nations other than Hebrew. Do you know about the temple there was then and the temple we have today? The high priest of OT times and our High Priest? And the connections. The spirit of God in the laws is alive and well today, for God is eternal and God is love.

The yoke of slavery is sin, not God's law. God's law is love and it explains ways of expressing God's love according to the times and culture we are in.