Why Do Christians Ignore Most of the Old Testament Rules?

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Jul 18, 2017
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somebody might ask the question,why would JESUS tell the rich young ruler to keep the Ten Commandments
If you will note this young man claimed to be keeping the five Commandments presented by Jesus. But Jesus did not mention the other five. And since his wealth was his idol, that was the end of keeping the Commandments. So this was simply a challenge to his false concept about INHERITING eternal life. No one inherits eternal life.

Even more importantly, he only perceived Christ as a "good master" or good rabbi. That was enough to prevent him from receiving the gift of eternal life.
 
Jun 30, 2015
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The yoke of slavery is sin, not God's law.
That view is completely inconsistent with the context. In the previous chapter Paul is contrasting law with faith. In the following passage Paul is discussing how obedience to the Law means Christ is of no value to you.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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That view is completely inconsistent with the context. In the previous chapter Paul is contrasting law with faith. In the following passage Paul is discussing how obedience to the Law means Christ is of no value to you.
This is taking Paul's teaching completely out of context. First, Paul needed to guide the Pharisees so they understood law and didn't mistake it for the legalistic way they read it.

When Paul points out the you can obey but not through Christ so you know the law as the spirit of God but law without love, that is the kind of law that is of no value to us. It is law without Christ leading us. Christ never ever leads to lawlessness.
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
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That view is completely inconsistent with the context. In the previous chapter Paul is contrasting law with faith. In the following passage Paul is discussing how obedience to the Law means Christ is of no value to you.
Are you really saying that God's law is a yoke of slavery? Like saying sin is freedom?
 

Deade

Called of God
Dec 17, 2017
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:geek:JESUS also told the rich young ruler that wanted to Inherit Eternal Life to keep the ten commandments but the Bible says that no one can keep the ten commandments perfectly so then somebody might ask the question,why would JESUS tell the rich young ruler to keep the Ten Commandments If It weren’t possible for any man to keep them perfectly?

Jesus was just saying that the rich automatically trust in their money. If the young rich man really obeyed God, he wouldn't be rich. giggle.gif
 
Jul 18, 2017
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If the young rich man really obeyed God, he wouldn't be rich.
Not necessarily. But he would not worship wealth. Since the Bible says that covetousness is idolatry, wealth was his idol, thus he was breaking the first four commandments.
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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By fulfill he meant he kept the law perfectly. And of course that would happen.
However, when Jesus also said, not one jot nor tittle of the law would pass from the law until all is accomplished, not fulfilled,
meaning that the whole of the prophecy of Messiah would need occur before anything in the law would disappear. There is still more to come.

Matthew 5:18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

I believe, we, His Body members with our Head risen to return, continue fulfilling the law, never perfectly and never as He did for us, but as representatives of Christ, His ambassadors in this age, we are seen as obedient to Him, imitators of Him, and doing our best to keep the laws which remain after His finalizing many such as the laws ogoverning the priesthood, for we too are made priests by Him with Him as the High Priest. We are the Temple so we need not concern ourselves with laws governing the physical Temple nor the qactivities within it, and so much more. Ye we are not perfected, only Jesus is the Perfect One for us.

We obey the commandments He left for us as best given us to do while at the same time when we fall short we are graced by His saving mercy…..you know. All blessings in Yeshua.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Jesus was just saying that the rich automatically trust in their money. If the young rich man really obeyed God, he wouldn't be rich. View attachment 191612
JESUS born under law told him to keep the commandments after the rich young ruler asked,what must I do to Inherit Eternal Life?
Again,why would JESUS tell him to keep the commandments If he couldn't keep them?

By the way,GOD blesses us to be a blessing so being rich was not the problem,his LOVE for money would have been the problem
GOD looks at the motivation,man looks at what things look like.
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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That view is completely inconsistent with the context. In the previous chapter Paul is contrasting law with faith. In the following passage Paul is discussing how obedience to the Law means Christ is of no value to you.
Paul is helping us to see that we are saved by faith.
He does not say that keeping the law is not good, but that keeping the law to be saved is not faith and will not save you.
If i keep the law because i love God am i doing anything wrong?
 

TMS

Senior Member
Mar 21, 2015
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If i don't take God's name in vain because i love God, that means I'm obeying the law. does that mean i don't have faith and i don't believe in the cross?
 
Feb 28, 2017
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JESUS born under law told him to keep the commandments after the rich young ruler asked,what must I do to Inherit Eternal Life?
Again,why would JESUS tell him to keep the commandments If he couldn't keep them?

By the way,GOD blesses us to be a blessing so being rich was not the problem,his LOVE for money would have been the problem
GOD looks at the motivation,man looks at what things look like.
Wasting time here....but....
Paul has several books explaining why Jesus would tell us to keep the commandments even though we can’t. It’s the New Testament.
The question you should ask is why would God have his son suffer and die on the cross for no reason? Why have two covenants at all? Why the cross?
 
Aug 27, 2017
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I used the word gossip because I wanted to get the thinking of the people who post against law keeping to think about what they are doing in a different way, and get them to realize it is not a good thing to do.

These anti law people take truths and somehow they come out distorted. It is true that we need God's help to put on Christ's way of acting, but this fact is put that we should make no effort ourselves to keep God's law? We are given free will, God isn't going to force His will on us, so it is true it is God in us that obeys and it is ALSO true that we have free will to obey.

Why, when you are trying to show how you believe God wants us to be it is something like "how is it that you people can't" and blah blah blah. Yet there are postings like "Jesus fulfilled the obligations to the law". I think you are basing that on that innocent blood of Christ paid for our sins, so in one sense it is true. The problem is when it is interpreted to mean that we don't have any obligation to obey Christ or as Paul puts it to die to sin and put on Christ.

You speak of believing we are not to sin, yet all the truths are pulled out and interpreted to mean we have no more responsibility for our sin. Or the Christ does not judge man but turns a blind eye to sin. All these have some basis in truth, for God is love who is sinless and His very essence it without sin. But Christ will return to judge. We are told that there is judgment, and sin brings on the results of sin. And here again, it is true that sin brings on its own results and it is also true that Christ forgives and forgets our sin.

It is also true that we must live with the results in this life of our sin. David proved that, for he was forgiven and was made pure and clean but he still paid. If you are caught stealing you go to jail even when God forgives you. David had to live with the results of his sins like his children dying, his son turning against him, etc. He died a broken man and he died a man forgiven and saved.

I don't think you get what I have been posting

I deny thinking sin is no longer an issue yet you pursue the idea that I think it no longer matters

I don't think I need to continue trying to get you to see that you and Jaume and a few others here are wrong in their conclusions

I don't think I need to do that at all

what I do think, is that you folks either do not understand, or CHOOSE to continue in your narrative because we agree with scripture that Christ initiated a NEW Covenant

David, although chosen by God, did not have the New Covenant. however he actually did write inspired and prophetic scripture in some cases

You speak of believing we are not to sin, yet all the truths are pulled out and interpreted to mean we have no more responsibility for our sin.
you have a major problem with understanding. I'll leave you to it. no one, repeat at the expense of boring people since it has been stated for at least as many years as I have been here and by all who understand that Christ fulfilled the law on our behalf and now, by God's spirit we have a new heart and understand that we are overcomers and sanctification is ongoing and not instant, has ever ever ever stated we can continue in sin

believe what you want but you are out of touch with reality since you cannot accept that we DO NOT SAY what your understanding reveals

at this point? whatever
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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... Even more importantly, he only perceived Christ as a "good master" or good rabbi. That was enough to prevent him from receiving the gift of eternal life.
That is eisegesis. Nothing in the text suggests that the young man's view of Christ was in any way improper.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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This is taking Paul's teaching completely out of context. First, Paul needed to guide the Pharisees so they understood law and didn't mistake it for the legalistic way they read it.

When Paul points out the you can obey but not through Christ so you know the law as the spirit of God but law without love, that is the kind of law that is of no value to us. It is law without Christ leading us. Christ never ever leads to lawlessness.
Given that I directly addressed the immediate context of Paul's words, it's rather ridiculous to claim that I took his teaching "completely out of context". Perhaps you should consider that charge against your own view, as Paul's letter to the Galatians doesn't mention Pharisees AT ALL. Further, Acts doesn't mention Pharisees in connection with Galatia at all. Paul's issue was with false believers--Judaizers--who wanted Gentiles to become Jews in order to become Christians.
 

Dino246

Senior Member
Jun 30, 2015
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Paul is helping us to see that we are saved by faith.
He does not say that keeping the law is not good, but that keeping the law to be saved is not faith and will not save you.
If i keep the law because i love God am i doing anything wrong?
You aren't keeping the Law. Nor is anyone on earth, nor has anyone on earth since AD 70. The temple, the Levites and the priests are gone, so you can't keep the Law. The Law was for Israel.

What you and every other self-proclaimed "lawkeeper" overlooks is that the Law is a comprehensive unit. You either keep it in its entirety or you break it in its entirety. Paul explained this clearly in Galatians 3:10 as did James in 2:10. Keeping a few of the commands isn't keeping the Law. It's treating the Law as a buffet (which ironically is what "lawkeepers" accuse Christians of doing). The Law demands perfection or declares failure; there is no middle ground.
 

Budman

Senior Member
Mar 9, 2014
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untrue, at least Biblically. All that gift means it is something we cannot earn. We must have the gift to be saved BUT we require faith. Scripturally faith can be dead, lost, shipwrecked, compromised, or transferred to something else (ex works). The Modern Church teaches you can have true faith in something but be committed to acting inconsistent with that faith. Scripture does not. We stand on the basis of faith but true faith produces works; it testifies to the evidence of a saving faith but it is the faith which saves. Faith and actions in the Bible cannot be split. Consider for a moment John 5:29. So if you really believe what you said does that mean that once you have accepted Jesus Christ you can live anyway you want based on your divorcing of faith and works?

Living the "Christian life" doesn't keep you saved. If you believe that, you're trusting in your works, not in Christ. One can never be lost for any reason after salvation because we have no sins attributed to us. We are, and shall remain, as holy as Jesus is. For we possess His righteousness.

Is not living the Christian life a sin? Jesus paid for it already. Is turning away from Jesus a sin? He paid for that one too. Is refusing to serve Him a sin? Guess what?

Yep. Paid for already.

Christians can't go to hell even if they wanted to, because we have no sins left to pay for.

If you have a single sin attributed to you, you are lost and can never be saved, because the Bible said without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sins. Jesus isn't coming back to shed His blood for sin ever again.

We have been perfected forever (Hebrews 10:14). And we have the promise of Jesus that He won't lose a single saved person (John 6:39). Not now, nor in the future (Romans 8:38-39).
 
Dec 9, 2011
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Wasting time here....but....
Paul has several books explaining why Jesus would tell us to keep the commandments even though we can’t. It’s the New Testament.
The question you should ask is why would God have his son suffer and die on the cross for no reason? Why have two covenants at all? Why the cross?
You didn’t elaborate and answer my question In your own words or at least tell us what Paul said so that the listener would know your response was answered satisfactory so then I wont pressure you any further on that question unless you want to discuss It more so then I will attempt to respond to your question,

The question you should ask is why would God have his son suffer and die on the cross for no reason? Why have two covenants at all? Why the cross?
Answer=GOD loves righteousness and Is sovereign and although HE could have taken power back from satin without HIS SON bleeding and dieing on a cross HE chose to take back as a man the right way the power that adam handed over to satin.

As for two covenants,the law was added because of transgression meaning man making his choice to do things his way Instead of GODs way needed to know what GODs perfect standard of righteousness was.

As for the cross,that was the way the Roman soldiers put people to death back then.
+++
Hebrews 1:7-10
King James Version(KJV)


7.)And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.

8.)But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9.)Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

10.)And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
 

JaumeJ

Senior Member
Jul 2, 2011
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We show the people how Jesus teaches not to teach against even the least of the laws, and they will not hear Him.

We show people in the test of His Word how He teaches the law is not abolished but fulfilled by Him.

I believe Jesus, because I am "under the Messiah," so you who do not believe the above try to be a little more in keeping with His Word......I am simply repeating it with understanding.

If being "under Messiah" is not good enough for you, nothing is.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
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We show the people how Jesus teaches not to teach against even the least of the laws, and they will not hear Him.

We show people in the test of His Word how He teaches the law is not abolished but fulfilled by Him.

I believe Jesus, because I am "under the Messiah," so you who do not believe the above try to be a little more in keeping with His Word......I am simply repeating it with understanding.

If being "under Messiah" is not good enough for you, nothing is.
When I first bought a computer I eventually found my way to Christian discussion forums. I was delighted.
One site was the best site for any Christian to attend. When logging off to begin the work schedule, I was elated. Buoyant, at peace, filled with joy, and it felt as if I was walking inches off the floor. It was a joy to be there. Everyone, without exception, demonstrated what it means to be indwelt with the joy of the holy spirit. That peace that passeth understanding is a feeling that no matter how many years have passed I still recall as I write this.
Then it changed.
The owner from what I was told either passed away and their heir sold the site. Or, they simply sold the site because they were not physically up to keeping it maintained due to failing health. Two stories, likely one a little late on the news the owner they thought was sick had actually died.
After they left the site went down. Fast.
Trolls started showing up making posts as soon as they registered. Grotesque stuff. Porn ad's, etc... In the public announcements forum.
All sorts of wicked thread starts that ran the moderators mad deleting the posts and banning the newbies.

Then they put a waiting period on the registration. The new member had to be approved by a Moderator.
That didn't help.
Rather than wicked ad's the new arrivals were just wicked people. Atheists turns out playing the role I had never heard of till then; POE. They would pretend to be Christian, they would find a Bible site and cherry pick scripture and then enter into a thread that was already underway as a Bible discussion. Or, they would start a thread. They'd use the scripture they copied to insist all sorts of pathetic truths surrounded "the word".
Without exception they were ill behaved from start to finish. No kind words ever toward anyone that would challenge their position.
Eventually all the original members left. New moderators entered that assumed sock-accounts, dual accounts that made them appear as if they were not that one known by the moderator pseudonym. Initially they did this to not intimidate an open discussion if members replying thought a moderator were involved.
But in a very short time, returning to the site as some of us did, registering a new name, to see if the atmosphere could be brought back to what it once was, we'd find those moderators would be the worst sort under those pseudonyms. Because by then the site had been sold I think at least twice prior. And now the owner sold out to advertiser space. No control over who advertised mind you. So again advertisements unfit for a Christian community appeared.
Thank God for Ad-Block.

Then, after I think it was another sale, some of us returned unaware of that handover to find those Advertisements were now appearing peppered throughout threads. The more pages accrued, the more advertising $pace sold to make the current owner more money. As you can imagine, the trolling types insured page counts increased for the $. Those were the sock accounts belonging to the moderators turns out. Because they were related to the owner as family.

It became a Hell hole. And its reputation on the net spread due to members being banned due to the current owner being Catholic.
They sold again and it never got better. The owner wasn't Catholic but the site was still Hell. That family has two more communities active on the net. They all operate the same way. Badly.

Today it is still on the net. And today there are review streams all over the place that forewarn people not to go there if they are Christian.
The real heartbreak is what it once was is dead and gone .And its like has never been found by any of us who were those original members that remain networked so as to alert one another should we be so blessed to happen on a place like the place we use to know.

The manna of Heaven tastes dirt to demons. The light and peace of Christ hurts the reptilian eyes of the trolling wicked that seek to spread their vile shadow into sanctuaries dedicated to the God of lights and turn it dark as soon as possible. And their disguise often enough is to claim they are Christian. Especially, non-denominational. That way they are never found out when they don't know the means of worship certain denominations practice.
And then they go to work in their air of pretend. They weren't unique to that forum I spoke of. That forum was just one stop on their road to Hell. But they breed you know. They go back to their little nest from whence they sprang, atheist forums, chat sites, or school, and talk about what fun it is to mess with Christians. And how seriously they're taken when they put on a good show that always is intentioned to conflict with the truth of God's word and mercy. These aren't those seekers or new arrivals that are unaware of God's word and salvation and are genuinely at a site to learn what it means to be in Christ. These are people that no matter what degree of focus actual Christians commit to educating their errant scripture references and proclamations , refuse to deviate from that wrong understanding. And instead work harder to push their "belief".
And it is all to cause chaos and seek to lead those who are in peace into that one's state of mind in response.

I share this because any Bible forum , any Christian discussion board, are a target of these type pretenders. If you know their MO you know what you're dealing with.
They think Christians are weak because we're told to love our enemies and turn the other cheek. So they dig in as strong enemies and take satisfaction in smacking us around with regularity. They hope we'll respond as they do. We'll become what they are. And then they will "win" in proving there really is no peace in Christ.

I was a moderator of a forum, not the one I mentioned. We learned a great deal as new staffers about those type demon POE's.
Then I decided to turn the tables after finding a thread in a search engine quite by accident wherein an Atheist forum had a thread bragging about the steps one could take to be their very best POE amid Christians.
I joined the Atheist forum and posed to see how the enemy behaved and thought about such things. They're not intelligent in the least because they imagined their tactics published on a public forum was a secret from the Christians they'd harass when they joined their forums pretending to be Christian.
I PM'd the link to the thread to my fellow moderators, the administrators, and the owner. And they in turn did the same in a network of such overseers of Christian discussion communities so that everyone on their email tree at that time was made aware.

If you call the Devil by name it flees from you because it cannot survive in the light.

This post is my hope of shining a Halogen beam onto the very real fact those type devils I describe are still at it.
And you will know them by their posts.

No one comes to Christ but the Father calls them. Perhaps such demonic masses that sit before computers in their dark little holes are actually there because they're heartbroken Jesus will never know their name. So they wreak havoc while they still have time.

To God be the glory.
Satan was there when the Book was written. He knows the ending. His disciples likely shall be surprised.
 

Lillywolf

Well-known member
Aug 29, 2018
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Would we pass or fail this test?

Matthew 5
45 so that you may be sons of your Father who is in heaven. For he makes his sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.