Why do people say that the soul don't die .When the BIBLE says, GOD says ALL souls are mine, the soul that sineth it shall die,

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bud62

Active member
Jan 4, 2020
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washburn Tn
#21
God says the wicked will go into eternal punishment forever and ever.

you say it's only a little while and then they don't exist.

you need to re-evaluate your position; you're contradicting Christ.

death is not ceasing to exist. the lake of fire is the second death and God says those cast in it - even death itself - are tormented forever and ever. eternally existing in a state of death, separated from the presence of God. they become as cinder and ash - existing as cinder and ashes.

been trying to explain this to you for weeks now, but you reject every scripture i remind you of without even pausing to consider.
maybe it's time i stop.
When they have been brought to ashes, this will be the eternal punishment, they will not be coming back,
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
28,263
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#22
There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’
(Luke 16:19-31)

both this rich man and Lazarus continue to exist after their bodies return to dust. they both have eternal existence.
this beggar has life. this rich man has death.



you will say, you believe God.
but you will say, Jesus is speaking pure impossible fantasy here with no relationship to reality at all.
i want you to think hard about what you are accusing Christ of here. see if you can find somewhere else that Christ teaches us by speaking of completely imaginary things that are -- as you call them -- unreal, unbelievable, foolish, impossible fairy tales. you're calling Him a liar with His head in the clouds.


i believe God. He's talking about very real things & His word is truth. it ain't always easy to understand - is it ever? - but it's always true.

clinging to the non-existence doctrine you've been taught is leading you into a lot of error.
 

bud62

Active member
Jan 4, 2020
876
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washburn Tn
#23
o that's too bad :(

i really thought Christ had promised us eternal life, to live forever

i guess you are telling me God, who lives forever, really doesn't - just 'for a lot of time'
and when He says we will have eternal life He just means we'll reach a ripe old age before we don't exist anymore?



oh -- or are you using a double standard to support your unscriptural position of cessation of existence?
making God speak out of both sides of His mouth?
Only if we get it from JESUS, We haft to put it on like Paul says, This means that we don't have it, If we haft to put it on.
 

bud62

Active member
Jan 4, 2020
876
202
43
62
washburn Tn
#24
There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores and longing to eat what fell from the rich man’s table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.
The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham’s side. The rich man also died and was buried. In Hades, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. So he called to him, ‘Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.’
But Abraham replied, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been set in place, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.’
He answered, ‘Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my family, for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.’
Abraham replied, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.’
‘No, father Abraham,’ he said, ‘but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.’
He said to him, ‘If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.’
(Luke 16:19-31)

both this rich man and Lazarus continue to exist after their bodies return to dust. they both have eternal existence.
this beggar has life. this rich man has death.




you will say, you believe God.
but you will say, Jesus is speaking pure impossible fantasy here with no relationship to reality at all.
i want you to think hard about what you are accusing Christ of here. see if you can find somewhere else that Christ teaches us by speaking of completely imaginary things that are -- as you call them -- unreal, unbelievable, foolish, impossible fairy tales. you're calling Him a liar with His head in the clouds.


i believe God. He's talking about very real things & His word is truth. it ain't always easy to understand - is it ever? - but it's always true.

clinging to the non-existence doctrine you've been taught is leading you into a lot of error.
The dead can not talk, it says even their memory has perish,
 
Nov 16, 2019
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#25
GOD told Adam that he would die, Satan told Eve that she would surely not die, Who do you believe ???????
If you believe that the soul, doesn't die, Who dose that ,say you believe, GOD OR Satan ???????
Paul talks here about the death that every sinner experiences:

"9 Once I was alive apart from the law; but when the commandment came, sin sprang to life and I died. 10 I found that the very commandment that was intended to bring life actually brought death. 11 For sin, seizing the opportunity afforded by the commandment, deceived me, and through the commandment put me to death." - Romans 7:9-11

The devil told Adam and Eve this would not happen if they disobeyed the commandment.
He lied.
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
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#26
The BIBLE says that there will be no more death, It will be the last enemy put under foot. And here you are saying that it will never end, GOD says it will, And I believe GOD.....
GOD told Adam that he would die, Satan told Eve that she would surely not die, Who do you believe ???????
If you believe that the soul, doesn't die, Who dose that ,say you believe, GOD OR Satan ???????
,
that wasn’t a lie

Genesis 3:22
Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever
 
Jun 10, 2019
4,304
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#27
Was it possible for man to live forever, yup.
 

Locoponydirtman

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2018
2,872
1,722
113
Texas
#28
The soul of those who are in Christ don't die. It's really is a matter of perspective. I can say the soul will never die, but that is because Christ not because me.
 

Journeyman

Well-known member
Jan 10, 2019
943
487
63
#29
I do not believe that you have study in the BIBLE on the word forever, a lot of the time it is not eternity
When this world is destroyed, How could you say, that time was still going. when it started with this world
, Don't you think that it makes since that when this world ends, that time will end also. And it also go's right a long with the BIBLE.
I agree with you. When you look at all the scriptures, the unsaved don't exist for eternity.
 

Kolistus

Active member
Feb 3, 2020
328
164
43
#30
Death is separation from God, and eternal life is knowing God.

John 17:3
And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

The death of the soul is the opposite of knowing God:

2 Thessalonians 1:9
Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

Now whether this means conscious torment or ceasing to exist after a period of time, that is up for everyone to decide and be convinced in their own minds.
 

Kolistus

Active member
Feb 3, 2020
328
164
43
#31
I agree with you. When you look at all the scriptures, the unsaved don't exist for eternity.
What about Revelation 14:11ff (torment) and Revelation 21:8 (After new heaven and earth has been created, people still in the lake of fire)

Not trying to trick you or cause you to stumble in your beliefs, but to ask questions to learn how do we reconcile all the verses around this topic
 

Rondonmon

Senior Member
May 13, 2016
329
28
28
#32
GOD told Adam that he would die, Satan told Eve that she would surely not die, Who do you believe ???????
If you believe that the soul, doesn't die, Who dose that ,say you believe, GOD OR Satan ???????
Separation from God can be considered DEATH.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
12,428
5,431
113
#33
IF I'm separated and not dead ,This makes GOD a lier, THIS IS believeing Satan over GOD, GOD said that you will die,
You are simply confused since you do not even know the meaning of the second death. And quoting Satan does not add anything to your ideas.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
872
288
63
#34
GOD told Adam that he would die, Satan told Eve that she would surely not die, Who do you believe ???????
If you believe that the soul, doesn't die, Who dose that ,say you believe, GOD OR Satan ???????
Adam began in spiritual fellowship with the Lord. When Adam sinned he lost this spiritual connection, I.E. died spiritually. He didn't die physically until many years later.

We're Adams offspring born with his sinful nature. Therefore when we are born physically our sin nature separates us from spiritual fellowship with the Father.

When we accept Christ placing our faith in His sin atoning sacrifice. Christ places His Holy Spirit in us (QUICKENS) & we can now fellowship with the Father thru our High Priest that intercedes on our behalf.

Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words: Quicken = [ strongs -,G2227, Greek word zoopoieo ] to make alive:" See LIFE, C.

2) [Strongs G2225, Greek word zoogoneo ] "to endue with life, produce alive, preserve alive:" See LIVE

3) Strongs G4806, Greek word suzoopoieo / sunzoopoieo ] "to quicken together with, make alive with" is used in Ephesians 2:5; Colossians 2:13, of the spiritual life with Christ, imparted to believers at their conversion.

QUICKEN
KJV Dictionary Definition: quicken = Primarily, to make alive; to vivify; to revive or resuscitate, as from death or an inanimate state. Rom. 4.

To make alive in a spiritual sense; to communicate a principle of grace to. You hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins. Eph. 2.

Using Vine's dictionary referenced verses above:
Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Col 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
(NOTE: Dead because of sin, made spiritually alive/quickened < Past tense, & forgiven all you're trespasses)

Additional references:

Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
(NOTE: Thru faith in Christ's sin atoning sacrifice. We "HATH" = already done, been Quickened < Past tense. An we're made SPIRITUALLY alive.)

Rom 6:9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
(NOTE: Once spiritually quickened, neither sin or death have dominion over or any believer.)

Rom 8:11 But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,584
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#36
GOD told Adam that he would die, Satan told Eve that she would surely not die, Who do you believe ???????
If you believe that the soul, doesn't die, Who dose that ,say you believe, GOD OR Satan ???????
We don't have immortality ,The only way we can have immortality is through JESUS, Paul says that we put on immortality, THIS means that we don't have immortality, WE HAFT TO GET IT FROM JESUS , And he is only going to give it to those that obey HIM,
Our spirits are immortal, i.e. they will exist eternally. These current bodies do not have immortality, which is why God is going to resurrect believers with immortal and glorified bodies so the scripture says that we cannot inherit the kingdom of God in these current bodies.

According to scripture, Life and death are states of existence in relation to ones state of being with God. Those who have been reconciled to God through faith in His Son, will have eternal life in those immortal and glorified bodies. Likewise, those who have not been reconciled to God through faith in His Son, will be in a state of death, which is eternal separation from God in the lake of fire.

The problem then, is your erroneous interpretation of the state of death as meaning nonexistence.

At the great white throne judgment, all of the unrighteous dead throughout all of history will be resurrected, their spirits released from Hades and united with their resurrected bodies. The fact that they will stand before God shows that they have still been existing, their spirits in Hades for all of that time. The event of Lazarus and the rich man also demonstrates the on-going existence of the spirit after the death of the body. We also have Samuel whom Saul called up from Sheol/Hades through the witch of Endor. We have all of the souls who will have been killed under the altar in heaven at the opening of the fifth seal. We Jesus telling the man crucified next to Him saying, "today you will be with me in paradise." How could Jesus make that promise when He himself died that same day? He was speaking about their spirits. Then there is Moses and Elijah appearing to Jesus on the mount when He was transfigured. I could go on an on.

Let go of your adopted teachings and believe the truth.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,584
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#37
We don't have immortality ,The only way we can have immortality is through JESUS, Paul says that we put on immortality, THIS means that we don't have immortality, WE HAFT TO GET IT FROM JESUS , And he is only going to give it to those that obey HIM,
Once again, the immortality that Paul is speaking about, is referring to these current bodies which die. We cannot inherit the kingdom of God in them, which is why at the resurrection, we will receive immortal and glorified bodies mete for the kingdom of God. This is what prompted him to say: "where O death is your is your victory? Where O death is your sting." This is because though believers in Christ die, yet shall they live, because death has no power over them, anymore than death had power over Jesus.

According to scripture (2 Cor.5:6, Phil.1:23), for those in Christ once the body dies, the spirit departs and goes to be in the presence of Christ. When the wicked die, their spirit departs and goes down into Hades to begin their punishment.

Life and death are both states of eternal conscious existence.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,584
1,609
113
#38
IF I'm separated and not dead ,This makes GOD a lier, THIS IS believeing Satan over GOD, GOD said that you will die,
Satan is the one that said that they would surly not die, So this puts you believing Satan And not GOD,

Shell not the day of the Lord be darkness in not light even very dark and no brightness in it, This is what happens when we don't stand on the word of GOD,
This does not make God a liar, it makes you ignorant of His word in regards to the meaning of death as being a state of existence and not cessation of existence. When Satan said, "you will not die" the rest of that verse is "God knows that in the day that you eat of it you will become like God."

Why do you camp out on certain scriptures and ignore the rest? Bring in all of the scripture on this subject and not just the ones you want to use to support this false teaching.

You will not surely die = Adam your body is not going to grow old and die and your spirit is not going to be separated from God, instead you will become like God knowing good from evil.

All we have to do is look at all of the graveyards to see who was lying. So, mankind is dying just as God said that we would. This does not mean that the spirit is unconscious, since we have plenty of scripture showing that the spirit is conscious and aware after the death of the body. When the unfaithful die, their bodies will decay in the ground and their spirits will be in a state of conscious separation from God in sheol/Hades which is the state of death.

Death is a state of existence based on ones relationship to God.

"And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne."

How can the dead stand before God?

The answer is that, these will be those who will have died in their sins and remained in a state of death (complete ruin, body soul and spirt), which is eternal conscious separation from God. These will be cast into the lake of fire conscious and aware in a state of death in relation to God.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,584
1,609
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#39
Quenched means that it can not be put out, But it don't mean that it don't go out, And you can see this in the BIBLE,A few times, HAPPEN Just like Sodom & Gomorrha , suffering the vengeance of eternal fire, it's not burning today, it what the fire dose that's eternal, not the fire it's self that eternal, When the fire burns the wicked to ashes, this will be eternal punishment, not the fire.
Really? Everlasting fire means exactly that, never ending, with the focus being on those being punished within the fire, i.e. their torment in flame will be never-ending.

You're just using existing apologetics above! The destruction by fire of Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding cities was the death of the physical body. Jude uses this as an example of those who will suffer the punishment of eternal fire, which as the word eternal infers, will be never ending.

To be clear, the lake of fire, which was prepared for Satan and his angels, will never go out. Those who end up in there will experience eternal punishment in torment in flame, because of their sins against a Holy and righteous eternal God. They will have rejected His provision of salvation through His Son and those who do will suffer the penalty of eternal conscious punishment in the lake of fire, which is the state of death.

And that is the truth of God's word.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,584
1,609
113
#40
We don't have immortality ,The only way we can have immortality is through JESUS, Paul says that we put on immortality, THIS means that we don't have immortality, WE HAFT TO GET IT FROM JESUS , And he is only going to give it to those that obey HIM,
This current body doesn't have immortality. But it will become immortal and glorified at the resurrection. The spirit however, is conscious and aware after death, which is supported by other scriptures.

"The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body."

This current body decays, has a sinful nature and is weak. When the resurrection takes place, this body will be transformed immortal (never to decay or die), will be a glorified body and will be raised, not only by the power of God, but will be raise in power, i.e. those new bodies will have heavenly abilities.