Why does God oppose Judaizing?

[Locoponydirtman]

Great post. That is why it is important I think to know the background f the people and the time when we read scripture. And also the language style the Hebrews used so as to gather the full picture of what the Old Testament did to lay the foundation for understanding the pending New.

Unfortunately Denominationalism and those churches that teach only the New Testament, saying the Old Testament is obsolete, or that it does not apply to the church today because it is strictly the record of God's relationship with the Hebrews and Israel. The anti-Jewish stance in those Denominational practices, dogma, lead many a congregant astray. And I think that is what is responsible for so little understanding of the New Testament today by those affiliated with such churches. They have no foundation in how the NT came to be; through the OT.
There was no Denominations/sects in the early centuries of our faith. That split of the people of Christ was due to the Great Schism of 1054 A.D. . And we've been a fractured people ever since.
People hold their faith in their particular sect or denomination rather than hold faith to the simple pure truth of God's words.

What denomination teaches that the ot is obsolete?

 

[Dino246]

Unfortunately Denominationalism and those churches that teach only the New Testament, saying the Old Testament is obsolete, or that it does not apply to the church today because it is strictly the record of God's relationship with the Hebrews and Israel.

I'm part of a "denominational" church that does not teach as you describe. I have been part of other "denominational" churches that do not teach as you describe. I have never known of a denominational church that teaches as you describe.

The anti-Jewish stance in those Denominational practices, dogma, lead many a congregant astray. And I think that is what is responsible for so little understanding of the New Testament today by those affiliated with such churches.

There is no "anti-Jewish stance" in my church, nor has there been in any church I have attended regularly.

They have no foundation in how the NT came to be; through the OT.

Groundless slander.

There was no Denominations/sects in the early centuries of our faith. That split of the people of Christ was due to the Great Schism of 1054 A.D. . And we've been a fractured people ever since.

Of course there were sects in the early Church! What do you think Paul was dealing with when he wrote 1 Corinthians 1, or Galatians, or 1 Thessalonians? Many of the early church 'fathers' wrote against particular sectarian teachings!

People hold their faith in their particular sect or denomination rather than hold faith to the simple pure truth of God's words.

I could say the same for you. It's easier to assume the motivations of others, and hold them in contempt, than to hear differing perspectives, considering them against the light of Scripture alone. In other words, your statement is arrogant.

 

[Blik]

I have nothing against God's Law, all things from God are good.

but, here is the issue, Israel only was given the Law and the Sabbath. only specific to the land of Israel, as any who came to dwell with the Jews had to adhere to the Toarh
by Jesus time, there were proselyte's . greeks or non jews who followed judeaism, but did not do circumcision .


Jesus came to redeem all, those under the Law, those not under the Law. but , redeem us to Himself, buy following His words while on earth ( " the words I speak to you, they are life). present tense.

so, we are redeemed to follow Christ in the New Covenant, not the letter of the Law in the Old Covenant.. the letter kills , the Sprit gives life.

Several men keep saying that God will deal with Israel as different from other humans, but no one tells us where they find the Lord teaching this. In fact scripture teaches that the world has only one God, God of all the very same. God created the Hebrews by separating Abraham from the rest of the gentiles it is true, but the Lord explains it was because the gentiles left him and God wanted a people to know Him and lead all the rest back to Him. There is only one God, one truth, one way not one way for gentiles an another different way for Hebrews.

 

[Whispered]

What denomination teaches that the ot is obsolete?

New Testament churches that do not teach the OT. Primitive Baptists, who's belief is founded on the 1611 KJV. You can find more here: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=new+testament+only+churches&t=ffsb&ia=web

In 2018 pastor Andy Stanley, non-Denominational Evangelical pastor, told his congregation, and he also wrote a book including this in 2018, that it was time to unhitch from the OT. Calling the OT obsolete. He said the ten commandments are null and void, and all the writings in the OT, all the prophets books, etc... are obsolete and outdated. You can find references to his remarks, including ridiculing "the God" of the OT, at this link.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

New Testament churches that do not teach the OT. Primitive Baptists, who's belief is founded on the 1611 KJV. You can find more here: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=new+testament+only+churches&t=ffsb&ia=web

In 2018 pastor Andy Stanley, non-Denominational Evangelical pastor, told his congregation, and he also wrote a book including this in 2018, that it was time to unhitch from the OT. Calling the OT obsolete. He said the ten commandments are null and void, and all the writings in the OT, all the prophets books, etc... are obsolete and outdated. You can find references to his remarks, including ridiculing "the God" of the OT, at this link.

Well that's pretty screwy. Obsolete no, but some of what the pastor preached yesterday was a bit of a face palm moment.

 

[Blik]

What denomination teaches that the OT is obsolete?

When I was attending the Nazarene church I was told to not get too deep in the OT, whatever my minister meant by that. Many posters on this site object to the scripture in the OT as it relates to the Sabbath. Because many of the things the OT told us to do are now obsolete, replaced by the new covenant, many things are said to be obsolete that were not made obsolete by the new covenant. When these people are asked to show the scripture that tells us they are obsolete, they simply state that if you believe Christ you believe they are obsolete with no scripture to back that up. (Lets not go over that old ground again, it's been ragged to death.)

 

[Dino246]

When I was attending the Nazarene church I was told to not get too deep in the OT, whatever my minister meant by that. Many posters on this site object to the scripture in the OT as it relates to the Sabbath. Because many of the things the OT told us to do are now obsolete, replaced by the new covenant, many things are said to be obsolete that were not made obsolete by the new covenant. When these people are asked to show the scripture that tells us they are obsolete, they simply state that if you believe Christ you believe they are obsolete with no scripture to back that up. (Lets not go over that old ground again, it's been ragged to death.)

I have not seen any post "objecting to the Scripture in the OT as it relates to the Sabbath". That just seems like another of your misrepresentations. Remember how little you appreciate having your words misrepresented?

 

[Dino246]

Several men keep saying that God will deal with Israel as different from other humans, but no one tells us where they find the Lord teaching this. In fact scripture teaches that the world has only one God, God of all the very same. God created the Hebrews by separating Abraham from the rest of the gentiles it is true, but the Lord explains it was because the gentiles left him and God wanted a people to know Him and lead all the rest back to Him. There is only one God, one truth, one way not one way for gentiles an another different way for Hebrews.

God Himself said it. He set Israel apart, gave them specific laws, and expected them to follow His laws on pain of clearly-described consequences. Israel disobeyed, rejected God, rejected His Messiah, and suffered the consequences. God has not done that with other nations.

God clearly distinguishes Israel from other nations in many places; one example is 1 Samuel 9:16.

"About this time tomorrow I will send you a man from the land of Benjamin, and you shall anoint him to be prince over My people Israel; and he will deliver My people from the hand of the Philistines. For I have regarded My people, because their cry has come to Me."

 

[JamOn]

Something that stands out is Jesus allowed his disciples to pick wheat on a sabbath to do laboring work for food. If the OT states not to do any laboring work on the sabbath why did Jesus allow his disciples to do so?

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I think recognizing Christ through out the OT is what is key.

 

[Whispered]

When I was attending the Nazarene church I was told to not get too deep in the OT, whatever my minister meant by that. Many posters on this site object to the scripture in the OT as it relates to the Sabbath. Because many of the things the OT told us to do are now obsolete, replaced by the new covenant, many things are said to be obsolete that were not made obsolete by the new covenant. When these people are asked to show the scripture that tells us they are obsolete, they simply state that if you believe Christ you believe they are obsolete with no scripture to back that up. (Lets not go over that old ground again, it's been ragged to death.)

Amen! The posted evidence speaks for itself. Again, and again, and again, and....

 

[Whispered]

Several men keep saying that God will deal with Israel as different from other humans, but no one tells us where they find the Lord teaching this. In fact scripture teaches that the world has only one God, God of all the very same. God created the Hebrews by separating Abraham from the rest of the gentiles it is true, but the Lord explains it was because the gentiles left him and God wanted a people to know Him and lead all the rest back to Him. There is only one God, one truth, one way not one way for gentiles an another different way for Hebrews.

Saul said, there is no Greek, Jew,Gentile, male, female, we're all one in Christ.
I'd think any doctrine that teaches opposite of that isn't following the scriptures. Segregation under God. What a concept.

 

[gb9]

Saul said, there is no Greek, Jew,Gentile, male, female, we're all one in Christ.
I'd think any doctrine that teaches opposite of that isn't following the scriptures. Segregation under God. What a concept.

what Paul meant here was we all saved the same the way, in Christ.

I do not have time to explain the chosen ones and the gentiles, you will have to look that up for yourself.

 

[gb9]

Several men keep saying that God will deal with Israel as different from other humans, but no one tells us where they find the Lord teaching this. In fact scripture teaches that the world has only one God, God of all the very same. God created the Hebrews by separating Abraham from the rest of the gentiles it is true, but the Lord explains it was because the gentiles left him and God wanted a people to know Him and lead all the rest back to Him. There is only one God, one truth, one way not one way for gentiles an another different way for Hebrews.

we are all dealt with the same, either one believes in Christ and is saved, or one does not believe and is condemned.
not by the Torah, but by faith in Christ.

and, one more time , as you avoid this Scripture like a plague, Leviticus 26- God spoke of the Covenant he made with the " fathers of those who came out of Egypt".

so, if you cannot trace your ancestry back to those who crossed the red sea, then that covenant, with the Law, Sabbath, feasts, dietary laws contained in it, was not made for you, nor are or were you under it.

gentiles never were.

 

[Whispered]

what Paul meant here was we all saved the same the way, in Christ.

I do not have time to explain the chosen ones and the gentiles, you will have to look that up for yourself.

I'd have hoped you'd go to the trouble so that you would understand the Epistle to the Galatians chapter 3 and particularly verse 28. I pray this helps you.

 

[Blik]

I have not seen any post "objecting to the Scripture in the OT as it relates to the Sabbath". That just seems like another of your misrepresentations. Remember how little you appreciate having your words misrepresented?

Are you saying that everyone believes in the last day of the week as the Sabbath as presented in the OT?

 

[Blik]

God Himself said it. He set Israel apart, gave them specific laws, and expected them to follow His laws on pain of clearly-described consequences. Israel disobeyed, rejected God, rejected His Messiah, and suffered the consequences. God has not done that with other nations.

God clearly distinguishes Israel from other nations in many places; one example is 1 Samuel 9:16.

"About this time tomorrow I will send you a man from the land of Benjamin, and you shall anoint him to be prince over My people Israel; and he will deliver My people from the hand of the Philistines. For I have regarded My people, because their cry has come to Me."

God asked the Hebrews to stay separate from the gentiles so they did not copy their ways, God never told them the world operated in different ways for them. God did not change nature for them. The natural cause and effect was the same for them as for the gentiles so there was no need of changing law, one law for Hebrews and a different one for gentiles.

 

[JamOn]

God asked the Hebrews to stay separate from the gentiles so they did not copy their ways, God never told them the world operated in different ways for them. God did not change nature for them. The natural cause and effect was the same for them as for the gentiles so there was no need of changing law, one law for Hebrews and a different one for gentiles.

Why was the disciples allowed to do labor work pick the wheat on the sabbath, if you have a good answer I’m willing to listen.

 

[Dino246]

Are you saying that everyone believes in the last day of the week as the Sabbath as presented in the OT?

I don't play the "Are you saying" game. I said what I meant to say.

 

[Dino246]

God asked the Hebrews to stay separate from the gentiles so they did not copy their ways, God never told them the world operated in different ways for them. God did not change nature for them. The natural cause and effect was the same for them as for the gentiles so there was no need of changing law, one law for Hebrews and a different one for gentiles.

You're engaging in the fallacy of equivocation, conflating natural laws with Levitical laws. There is a distinction between them. Levitical laws were given to Israel only. Gentiles who wished to join with Israel had to submit to the Levitical laws. Gentiles who become Christians do not have to submit to Levitical laws.