Why does God oppose Judaizing?

Whispered · Feb 17, 2020

I find it wisdom to remind myself to never say never, when it comes to our precious God and the Gentiles whom His grace did fall upon. Even in the Old Testament.

(* in any passage is my addition so as to elaborate on a word, translation)

The Book of Isaiah chapter 42:
5.Thus says God, Adonai,
who created the heavens and spread them out,
who stretched out the earth and all that grows from it,
who gives breath to the people on it
and spirit to those who walk on it:
6 “I, Adonai, called you righteously,
I took hold of you by the hand,
I shaped you and made you a covenant for the people,
to be a light for the Goyim, (*Goyim = Gentiles)
7 so that you can open blind eyes,
free the prisoners from confinement,
those living in darkness from the dungeon.
8 I am Adonai; that is my name.
I yield my glory to no one else,
nor my praise to any idol.
9 See how the former predictions come true;
and now new things do I declare —
before they sprout I tell you about them.”
The Book of Genesis chapter 10
Nations Descended From Noah

The Book of Genesis chapter 12:
The Call of Abram
12 Now (A)the Lord said[a] to Abram, “Go from your country[b] and your kindred and your father's house to the land that I will show you. 2 (B)And I will make of you a great nation, and I will bless you and make your name great, so that you will be a blessing. 3 (C)I will bless those who bless you, and him who dishonors you I will curse, and (D)in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed.”[c]

Whispered · Feb 17, 2020

The Epistle of Romans chapter 11:17 But if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive, were grafted in among them and became partaker with them of the rich root of the olive tree,18. do not be arrogant toward the branches; but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.

The Epistle to the Romans chapter 9:6 But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham (O)because they are his offspring, but (P)“Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but (Q)the children of the promise are counted as offspring. 9 For this is what the promise said: (R)“About this time next year I will return, and Sarah shall have a son.” 10 And not only so, but (S)also when Rebekah had conceived children by one man, our forefather Isaac, 11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of (T)him who calls— 12 she was told, (U)“The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, (V)“Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
14 What shall we say then? (W)Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, (X)“I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[b] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, (Y)“For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.
19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For (Z)who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, (AA)to answer back to God? (AB)Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 (AC)Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump (AD)one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience (AE)vessels of wrath (AF)prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known (AG)the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he (AH)has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he (AI)has called, (AJ)not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles? 25 As indeed he says in Hosea,

(AK)“Those who were not my people I will call ‘my people,’
and her who was not beloved I will call ‘beloved.’”
26 (AL)“And in the very place where it was said to them, ‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called (AM)‘sons of the living God.’”

Zechariah 14
The Coming Day of the Lord
16 Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem (AS)shall go up year after year to worship (AT)the King, the Lord of hosts, and (AU)to keep (AV)the Feast of Booths. (*Feast of Booths = Feasts of Tabernacles, or Sukkot. See, the Book of Leviticus chapter 23)

The Epistle to the Ephesians chapter 3:
The Mystery of the Gospel Revealed
3 For this reason I, Paul, (A)a prisoner of Christ Jesus (B)on behalf of you Gentiles— 2 assuming that you have heard of (C)the stewardship of (D)God's grace that was given to me for you, 3 (E)how the mystery was made known to me (F)by revelation, (G)as I have written briefly. 4 (H)When you read this, you can perceive my insight into (I)the mystery of Christ, 5 which was not made known to the sons of men in other generations as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit. 6 This mystery is[a] that the Gentiles are (J)fellow heirs, (K)members of the same body, and (L)partakers of the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel.

Whispered · Feb 17, 2020

Blik said:

I would suggest you might consider he is pointing out a play on words in your prior post #306. (Reposted here: When I was attending the Nazarene church I was told to not get too deep in the OT, whatever my minister meant by that. Many posters on this site object to the scripture in the OT as it relates to the Sabbath. Because many of the things the OT told us to do are now obsolete, replaced by the new covenant, many things are said to be obsolete that were not made obsolete by the new covenant. When these people are asked to show the scripture that tells us they are obsolete, they simply state that if you believe Christ you believe they are obsolete with no scripture to back that up. (Lets not go over that old ground again, it's been ragged to death.)

What he's equivocating about is the wording. Posters on this site objecting to the scripture in the OT as it relates to the Sabbath.
It is true. No poster has objected to the scripture in the Old Testament as it relates to the Sabbath. However, what I would say you intended to write instead is, (If I may be so bold) "...many posters on this site object to the scripture in the Old Testament as relates to the Sabbath and the Sabbath keeping pertaining to Christians." Which is true. Many posters on this site object to Christians who say the OT Sabbath is to be honored by Christians.

Blik · Feb 17, 2020

JamOn said:

God asks us to obey the law from our hearts, not legalistically. It would be a legal way of obeying to tell them you don't give a rip if they are hungry, just obey law to the letter. Love is the supreme law.

gb9 · Feb 17, 2020

Blik said:

God wants us to believe in His Son for salvation. not believe in the Torah, given to Israel only.

God told Israel not to make treaties with the gentile nations. Jesus told His disciples to go into the world and teach what He commanded .

not what the Father told Isreal.

we are to teach the words in red, not the ministry of death written on stone.

Aerials1978 · Feb 17, 2020

I think Paul address this in the Book of Galatians.

Dino246 · Feb 17, 2020

Whispered said:

It's best not to use words that you don't understand. Look them up first, lest you display your ignorance.

Blik · Feb 17, 2020

Dino246 said:

All the laws of the Lord have natural results except for the ceremonial laws. Those laws were for the Hebrews to keep them separate from the bad influences of the idol worshipers. Judaizers follow ceremonial laws, they are not to be followed any longer. We are not to mix eternal laws and guidance the Lord gives us with ceremonial laws.

At the time of Christ many gentiles joined the Jews in their religion but there was trouble that resulted and they caused problems so it was decided they had to promise to obey the ceremonial laws. There were 18 of them to follow, but we are only told there were 18 but a list of them was never kept. Paul objected. The objection is in scripture. Paul called the ceremonial laws the laws of Moses and explained they were now obsolete for we have the Holy Spirit available to all to perform what the ceremonial laws were to do.

a

Blik · Feb 17, 2020

gb9 said:

For you, you have decided that the Torah is not from God to teach you about Him, for others they learn to know their creator better through the teachings in the Torah as it is breathed by the Lord.

I'll bet you learned that you and the earth was created by God from the word, anyway.

JamOn · Feb 17, 2020

Blik said:

I like that answer thanks for replying sounds logical.

Blik · Feb 18, 2020

gb9 said:

If God gave us the Torah, do you think God wants us to not believe what it tells us? If we believe in the Torah then the Torah tells us about Christ. Believing in the Torah IS believing in Christ.

gb9 · Feb 18, 2020

Blik said:

*sigh

" we" were NOT given the Torah, Israel was given the Torah.

I an not going to tell you about what God the Father said in Leviticus 26 about who was under what Covenant.

you are choosing to ignore Scripture, I see no need to continue to speak with you.

you all willfully blind. God bless you and may He open your eyes to the simplicity in Christ.

Blik · Feb 18, 2020

gb9 said:

And here I thought Christ was also God and that in John I was told Christ was the word. Now you say He wasn't, and was not there at creation and had nothing to do with the God the Torah told us was the creator. My goodness.

Dino246 · Feb 18, 2020

Blik said:

You've done it again, in a big way.

You have COMPLETELY misrepresented GB9's words, and in doing so, you have essentially made yourself a liar.

Where did you learn this terrible habit?

Blik · Feb 18, 2020

Dino246 said:

Exaggerating does make a point. At least it is better than making something up from scratch as is done to me.

Blik · Feb 18, 2020

gb9 said:

Dino said I completely misrepresented this when I objected to his points. I exaggerated my objections, and it was pointed out i was wrong to do that. Let me put in another way. He said the Torah was only given to Israel. We are told that if we are Christ's we are Abraham's seed and Abraham's seed is Israel. Gal_3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

I am judged as someone who will not listen to the Lord in this post. He bases that on his assumption that Leviticus 26 is not giving us the policies of the Lord for the people that he frees from bondage but only applies to a certain time of our world and a limited amount of humans that must be Hebrew in heritage.

God freed these specific people from bondage and saved their sons from death through blood that was symbolic of Christ's blood. God asks us to celebrate that He frees us from the bondage of sin, as this happening was a symbol of. It is for all people.

I think it is wrong if we limit God to being racist, not a God who offers His love and care equally to all. God separated the Hebrew and they are His chosen people because of the work God gave them to do for us all, but God loves and accepts us all equally.

I think it is quite evident that the one ignoring scripture is the accuser.

Whispered · Feb 18, 2020

Blik said:

Also, to answer the question put to you by another member as pertained to the Disciples and Jesus plucking wheat on the Sabbath, that was something they were allowed to do. Certainly Jesus, who was God, would not violate His own commandments.
The Book of Deuteronomy chapter 23:24 “If you go into your neighbor's vineyard, you may eat your fill of grapes, as many as you wish, but you shall not put any in your bag. 25 If you go into your neighbor's standing grain, you may pluck the ears with your hand, but you shall not put a sickle to your neighbor's standing grain.

This of course negates any challenge about in today's world, shopping for food, or going out to eat during the Sabbath, sundown Friday unto sundown Saturday, as would be thought to be violating the Sabbath as prescribed as a day of rest.

Whispered · Feb 18, 2020

Dino246 said:

Find peace in Christ.
" To use equivocal language in an attempt to mislead. " equivocal= Open to two or more interpretations and often intended to conceal the truth.

Whispered · Feb 18, 2020

gb9 said:

A New Testament Christian. Thank you for posting that.
I was asked by someone about such things when I mentioned those who believe the Old Testament is obsolete, or does not apply to Christians.
While Christians notice , if they own a Bible, that the Old Testament is bound first and then the New.
Meanwhile, you ignore the education concerning the Torah and the covenant of God that would assist your understanding. That's too bad.

Blik · Feb 18, 2020

gb9 said:

Also the Sadducees and Pharisees of Christ's time did not want the gentiles to think of the one true God as their God, they would agree with you that God spoke to them alone. Even Paul would say to the Jew first and then the gentile. But Paul was sent to the gentiles with the message that God was a true God to all. If God was a true God of all then He never did exclude certain races from His words. The gentiles of OT times refused to listen to God, God did not force them to listen and accept Him, but in God's heart and mind He wanted them to listen. When some did, like Ruth did, God never excluded them and God doesn't now. I don't think we should shut ourselves away from how he spoke to Israel now as they should not have then.

Why does God oppose Judaizing?

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