Angela53510;3474110]It is sad to me, that there are so many people who have been railroaded into this whole Word Faith lie. And it becomes the dominant thing in their lives. Because, I wonder if they thought if they slowed down, examined Scripture, they would realize that healing for ALL sickness is not in the Bible, and then they would be up a creek with no paddle.
I also wonder if they keep on believing because their entire faith life would fall to ruins, if you pulled out the bottom level? Like, how could they believe the “promise” of salvation, if they lost the “promise’ of total healing? Sort of like God would not be on the throne anymore, because their own personal theology about healing failed?
That’s not the topic, I know 7seasr! LOL
IMO it's sure a part of it! the psychology behind the WOF movement is real. what you say about loosing faith is real..have you ever continued to believe when everything is dark and nothing makes sense? I know you have...I have also...somewhere you have to find God in the middle of all of that...we find Him when we search for Him with all of our heart and then truly we do not want to let go and the world becomes temporal whereas before we might have held on too hard
I don't know if you saw my post on this, but I am calling this healing thing the golden calf of WOFers...they made it themselves and the gold is their misplaced faith...faith is golden when directed at the author and finisher of our faith, but an idol when misplaced. it is presumption and not faith
I have seen healing, and in once case, it was the child of a Hindu, whose brother-in-law had invited him to an evangelical meeting. The doctor verified the next day, that a totally deaf child could hear. And the family was saved! And many others. And the evangelist, who did NOT have a healing ministry, was kind of stunned. He believed in healing, but he had never seen someone saved because of healing. So that was marvelous - a deaf child healed, Hindus saved, and God was glorified.
I like the fact the speaker was not praying or expecting healing...both for the fact of God moving in His mercy and grace and it also puts the lie to all this nonsense of not having enough faith...I think I said to Mr Ben in the long post I answered, that sometimes people are saved because of healing...at God's will, anyway, if I didn't say it, I should have and here it is just the same
you know NAR and all the rest want to marvel at miracles and spiritual exhibitionism but here is the real thing!
I think all the Word Faith people are looking for that kind of healing, every time someone is prayed for. For sure, it was God’s will the child be healed, and the family be saved. But, that is not the normal! That is almost the exception to the rule. (I think Lynn might disagree here!). Because, in our society, if healing was guaranteed for every Christian, our churches would be filled, missionaries sent forth, and millions saved daily.
We KNOW that doesn’t happen! So, why do these Word Faith people live in such denial? Because, despite all the people here, showing what the Bible says, they continue to believe a lie. And Ben, continues to say people like me don’t have enough faith to be healed. The usual song and dance, keep ‘em coming, just in case, somehow, suddenly every believer who prays gets healed. But, if they don’t, its not God, not their theology which is rotten to the core, but the person that is lacking. Again, insult to injury.
I don't see where Ben has anything new to say and it seems he says things without any sort of proof and then ignores the response to people asking him where he gets off saying things like Isaiah 53 is not addressed by the other side in this debate. it's a mindset that is just not open to reality and there is a psychological reality to why people grab onto WOF . not talking about mental illness so nobody go off the deep end please even if that offends you. believe me, us anti-WOF folks are properly and well offended by much of what you say and the dismissive way you respond and try to say we do not believe God can heal. real problem there and denial is a part of it
It is always the one praying who should be blamed when someone is not healed. I’m not talking about those getting up from a wheelchair, who were not in a wheelchair before a service, I’m talking about people who are really sick, and when the elders pray for them and anoint them with oil they are not healed.
The fact is, we are all given the measure of faith we need.
“For by the grace given to me I say to every one of you not to think more highly of yourself than you ought to think, but to think with sober discernment, as God has distributed to each of you a measure of faith.” Romans 12:2
Why would I need more faith than God has given me? It makes no sense at all, unless your God doesn’t know how to sancify you. A god that is not sovereign and control and NOT MY GOD.
well that's it...so Ben comes back with maybe it's worse than not enough faith...maybe it's unbelief that causes some not to be healed...no matter what, the default position of the 'healing is in the atonement crowd' is always about the faith of the person...as you say.
Please note that this faith is NEVER to be used to think of yourself more highly than someone else. I think telling someone you have the faith for healing, (assuming you really do) but they don’t, is thinking more highly of yourself than you should!
When I was recovering from the devastating spiritual depression that came, not when I wasn’t healed, but when I was told “You don’t have enough faith!” God showed me this verse below.
”More than that, we rejoice in our suffering, knowing that suffering produces endurance, endurance produces character and character produces hope. And hope does not disappoint, because God’s love has been poured out by the Holy Spirit who has been given to us.” Romans 5:3-5
God pours out his love on us all! So, the fact is, whether from lack of finances, relationship issues, sickness or persecution, God is using suffering of every type to produce endurance, which produces character. And that is a very good God!
I agree.
I used to be a big journal writer. I can go back to my healthy days, and I see someone, who despite attending church every Sunday, reading the Bible daily, and proclaiming Jesus as Lord and Saviour, for 20 years, had a very shallow and immature character.
I think God tried many other ways to help me grow. But, I was not growing. So, he had to pull me completely out of that bad soil, and prune me back to nothing, (that’s what you have to do with older trees and plants, or they will die trying to keep the tops growing) and then start again, in more fertile soil. And I am grateful for that! What if God had pulled me out and thrown me on the compost heap, in disgust?
No, God has poured out his love into my heart, and he knew he could change me, but it would take a lot of work. And a lot of time! So, here I sit, 20 years later, and God is so real, so good and I know he has worked all things together for good in my life!
Amen! when we can look back and see these things, we know He has had his hand on us the entire time whether or not we knew it. still alot of things I do not understand...how Christians can betray someone for example, but God knows and I have to trust He is working even in the lives of those who say they are Christians but do so much damage to others
”And we know God works all things together for good, to those who love God and who are called according to his purpose.” Romans 8:28.
What does ALL mean in this verse? Well, it doesn’t mean, God heals ALL, or God MUST heal all. It means that all the good things, the neutral things, and the bad things, God is working for good in our lives. For me, not being healed started as a bad thing! But, although I still live in pain daily, I know that in eternity, God has changed my character a lot closer to the image of Christ!
And that is the crux of it, for me! Does healing help someone be saved? How about does it help someone be transformed into the image of Christ? Because, (I think EG said this!) if getting gloriously and wonderfully healed of an ailment in your body, means you get saved, wonderful! But if that same person walks away from God a few years later, might they have been better off not getting healed, and being reduced to a mess, so God could truly change them in to the image of Christ?
“Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is present, there is freedom. 18 And we all, with unveiled faces reflecting the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from one degree of glory to another, which is from the Lord, who is the Spirit.” 2 Cor. 3:17-18
I believe our goal on earth is to be transformed into the image of Christ. Not that we will attain it in this life, but to be on that journey with God, and our spirit being changed, into something that reflects the glory of God.
So, if healing sickness doesn’t help that goal, I don’t see God answering it. If healing will make you walk away from God, make you think more highly of yourself, even though it is God who heals, then what would be the purpose of that kind of healing?
Or perhaps a more positive way to say it, is that God has healed my heart and my spirit. He reconciled me to him, and then to my birth family, to friends, and changed me so I wasn’t sitting by the road on the narrow way, twiddling my thumbs, but I jumped up in my Spirit and began running towards God.
This is why I so strongly object to the Word Faith demand that ALL must be healed. (Besides the many Scriptures I have post elsewhere, that show healing is NOT in the atonement).Because spiritual healing is so much more important than physical healing. Twenty years I have been sick from an inherited auto-immune disorder. Maybe another 20, should I live that long?
But how long in eternity? Forever with Christ! And he is the one who planned the perfect path for me to take, how could I not trust him, whether I am never healed or not?
this is a beautiful post Angela and written from your heart. thank you!
