Why I don't believe in OSAS
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I would love to know what Bible you are reading.
Grace is a cloak for ongoing vileness?
God declares someone who is presently vile as pure and holy? To buy into that is ignorance beyond ignorance.
Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
The words of Jesus must mean nothing to you.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
You have exchanged a "vileness cloak" for genuine "purification." What a tragedy.
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Perfect - teleios - G5046 - complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.
You must thing Jesus was not being serious when He said that. I mean how else would you explain His words?
Such a standard is beyond your comprehension
Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
I wonder how you view the above passage about having a "single eye" and being "full of light." Those are teachings which your doctrine ignores completely. Instead you believe in this provisional transaction where Jesus obeyed for you and met the righteous requirements of the law in your place. What a load of hogwash.
Your doctrine has "saved" people engaged in all manner of filthy behaviour and yet "saved" because of this swap you believe in. Salvation is really just a legal exchange which leaves the saved person manifestly filthy but legally pure? I am astounded how so many people can buy into such nonsense. It just blows my mind.
Strait gate, narrow way, be ye holy, keep the commandments, abide in me, remain steadfast, overcome, be a doer, ect. All that means nothing. In its place is "receive Jesus" where "your sin debt was paid and is not due anymore" and "Jesus track record" is credited to your account. Thus God looks at the murdering rapist (who still "struggles" with murder and rape by engaging in it every so often) and pretends they are righteous and holy. What a complete mockery of the Gospel.
The OP may be young and that is a good thing. I hope they don't get brainwashed by the theology of the great falling away and get stubbornly set in its paradigm to years and years of repetition.
Grace is a cloak for ongoing vileness?
God declares someone who is presently vile as pure and holy? To buy into that is ignorance beyond ignorance.
Mat 5:3 Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Mat 5:4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
Mat 5:7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
Mat 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
The words of Jesus must mean nothing to you.
Mat 23:26 Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also.
You have exchanged a "vileness cloak" for genuine "purification." What a tragedy.
Mat 5:48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.
Perfect - teleios - G5046 - complete (in various applications of labor, growth, mental and moral character, etc.); neuter (as noun, with G3588) completeness: - of full age, man, perfect.
You must thing Jesus was not being serious when He said that. I mean how else would you explain His words?
Such a standard is beyond your comprehension
Mat 6:22 The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
Mat 6:23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
Mat 6:24 No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.
I wonder how you view the above passage about having a "single eye" and being "full of light." Those are teachings which your doctrine ignores completely. Instead you believe in this provisional transaction where Jesus obeyed for you and met the righteous requirements of the law in your place. What a load of hogwash.
Your doctrine has "saved" people engaged in all manner of filthy behaviour and yet "saved" because of this swap you believe in. Salvation is really just a legal exchange which leaves the saved person manifestly filthy but legally pure? I am astounded how so many people can buy into such nonsense. It just blows my mind.
Strait gate, narrow way, be ye holy, keep the commandments, abide in me, remain steadfast, overcome, be a doer, ect. All that means nothing. In its place is "receive Jesus" where "your sin debt was paid and is not due anymore" and "Jesus track record" is credited to your account. Thus God looks at the murdering rapist (who still "struggles" with murder and rape by engaging in it every so often) and pretends they are righteous and holy. What a complete mockery of the Gospel.
The OP may be young and that is a good thing. I hope they don't get brainwashed by the theology of the great falling away and get stubbornly set in its paradigm to years and years of repetition.
Fallacy after fallacy.
Snip a Bible verse out of context here and snip a Bible out of context there.
Perhaps the Pharisees quoted the following passage during the Roman siege of Jerusalem in 70AD.
Psa 121:1 A Song of degrees. I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.
Psa 121:2 My help cometh from the LORD, which made heaven and earth.
Psa 121:3 He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: he that keepeth thee will not slumber.
Psa 121:4 Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.
Psa 121:5 The LORD is thy keeper: the LORD is thy shade upon thy right hand.
Psa 121:6 The sun shall not smite thee by day, nor the moon by night.
Psa 121:7 The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.
Psa 121:8 The LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.
It is so easy to snip verses and passages here and there in order to substantiate a deception whilst ignoring that which provides the harmonious balance.
Snip a Bible verse out of context here and snip a Bible out of context there.
Perhaps the Pharisees quoted the following passage during the Roman siege of Jerusalem in 70AD.
Psa 121:1 A Song of degrees. I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.
Psa 121:2 My help cometh from the LORD, which made heaven and earth.
Psa 121:3 He will not suffer thy foot to be moved: he that keepeth thee will not slumber.
Psa 121:4 Behold, he that keepeth Israel shall neither slumber nor sleep.
Psa 121:5 The LORD is thy keeper: the LORD is thy shade upon thy right hand.
Psa 121:6 The sun shall not smite thee by day, nor the moon by night.
Psa 121:7 The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.
Psa 121:8 The LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.
It is so easy to snip verses and passages here and there in order to substantiate a deception whilst ignoring that which provides the harmonious balance.
some people do not believe what I say
-a (spirit filled person)(the temple of God).
1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are (the temple of God), and that (the Spirit of God dwelleth in you)?
Ecclesiastes 8:8
There is (no man) that (hath power) over the spirit (to retain the spirit);
neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war;
neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift,
and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And (have tasted the good word) of God, and (the powers) of the world to come,
6(If they shall fall away), to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify
to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
the parable of the pounds (Luke 19:11-27),
the parable of the talents (Matthew 25:14-30),
47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into
the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
-God shall destroy, thats (the second death),
Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers,
and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in
the lake which (burneth with fire and brimstone): which is (the second death).
Revelation 20:11
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face
the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell(grave) delivered up
the dead which were in them: and they were (judged every man according to their works)
- (man can kill you) the first death now.
Luke 12:4
And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of (them that kill the body),
and after that have (no more that they can do).
Matthew 10:28
And fear not (them which kill the body), but are not able (to kill the soul):
but rather (fear him) which is (able to destroy) both soul and body in hell-fire.
5“For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing …”
-my bible says at (his return) when (where changed).
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the (last trump): for (the trumpet shall sound),
and the dead shall be (raised incorruptible), and we shall (be changed).
-how can we be raised and changed if we are in heaven changed allready ?
14If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, (till my change come).
15(Thou shalt call), and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
-but be (with Christ) (reigning with him) for (1000 years)
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in (the first resurrection):
on such (the second death hath no power), but they shall (be priests) of (God) (and of Christ),
and (shall reign with him) a (thousand years).
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
-right here on plant earth over mortals.
Zechariah 14:4
And (his feet) shall stand in (that day) upon the (mount of Olives),
- because of the spirit in you, you have an uncorrupted body,
a thousand years before everyone not spirt filled,raised at white throne judgement.
romans 8:11
But if (the Spirit) of him that raised up Jesus from the dead (dwell in you),
he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also (quicken your mortal bodies)
by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
-where does it say be taken home to Heaven ? question still stands.
I will not speak unless i can back with scripture are I know it is true.
sorry it just takes so long for me to round them all up to prove my words,
-a (spirit filled person)(the temple of God).
1 Corinthians 3:16
Know ye not that ye are (the temple of God), and that (the Spirit of God dwelleth in you)?
Ecclesiastes 8:8
There is (no man) that (hath power) over the spirit (to retain the spirit);
neither hath he power in the day of death: and there is no discharge in that war;
neither shall wickedness deliver those that are given to it.
2 Corinthians 1:22
And who has also put his seal on us and given us his Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift,
and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5And (have tasted the good word) of God, and (the powers) of the world to come,
6(If they shall fall away), to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify
to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
the parable of the pounds (Luke 19:11-27),
the parable of the talents (Matthew 25:14-30),
47And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out: it is better for thee to enter into
the kingdom of God with one eye, than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire:
-God shall destroy, thats (the second death),
Revelation 21:8
But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers,
and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in
the lake which (burneth with fire and brimstone): which is (the second death).
Revelation 20:11
And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face
the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake,
some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell(grave) delivered up
the dead which were in them: and they were (judged every man according to their works)
- (man can kill you) the first death now.
Luke 12:4
And I say unto you my friends, Be not afraid of (them that kill the body),
and after that have (no more that they can do).
Matthew 10:28
And fear not (them which kill the body), but are not able (to kill the soul):
but rather (fear him) which is (able to destroy) both soul and body in hell-fire.
5“For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing …”
-my bible says at (his return) when (where changed).
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the (last trump): for (the trumpet shall sound),
and the dead shall be (raised incorruptible), and we shall (be changed).
-how can we be raised and changed if we are in heaven changed allready ?
14If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, (till my change come).
15(Thou shalt call), and I will answer thee: thou wilt have a desire to the work of thine hands.
-but be (with Christ) (reigning with him) for (1000 years)
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in (the first resurrection):
on such (the second death hath no power), but they shall (be priests) of (God) (and of Christ),
and (shall reign with him) a (thousand years).
7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
-right here on plant earth over mortals.
Zechariah 14:4
And (his feet) shall stand in (that day) upon the (mount of Olives),
- because of the spirit in you, you have an uncorrupted body,
a thousand years before everyone not spirt filled,raised at white throne judgement.
romans 8:11
But if (the Spirit) of him that raised up Jesus from the dead (dwell in you),
he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also (quicken your mortal bodies)
by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.
5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished.
This is the first resurrection.
-where does it say be taken home to Heaven ? question still stands.
I will not speak unless i can back with scripture are I know it is true.
sorry it just takes so long for me to round them all up to prove my words,
Yes Notuptome we respect are elders,
but why be so critical of this young man,
who posted what God has proclaimed in verses,
that posted more verses then youre rant,
don't hinder Gods children.
man can do right in Gods eyes, he can also do evil.
God tells you to be perfict, and says it is not had,
with his help you can to.
Scripture commands that we study the word of God,
and that was what he was doing.
Learn before you endeavor to teach.
I liked it he presented his case good.
mabe he will do better next time.
mabe you should try another nicer rebutal
we have only so many young kids with the right drive today
but why be so critical of this young man,
who posted what God has proclaimed in verses,
that posted more verses then youre rant,
don't hinder Gods children.
man can do right in Gods eyes, he can also do evil.
God tells you to be perfict, and says it is not had,
with his help you can to.
Scripture commands that we study the word of God,
and that was what he was doing.
Learn before you endeavor to teach.
I liked it he presented his case good.
mabe he will do better next time.
mabe you should try another nicer rebutal
we have only so many young kids with the right drive today
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- Deuteronomy 30:19 (KJV)
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:
we have a choice
P
You think Christ lives somewhere besides heaven?
Acts 7:55 "But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God"
1 Peter 3:21,22 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: [SUP] [/SUP]Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him."
Now, enough of your foolishness. Where, chapter and verse, does it say we reign with Christ for 1000 years here on earth?
Acts 7:55 "But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God"
1 Peter 3:21,22 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: [SUP] [/SUP]Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him."
Now, enough of your foolishness. Where, chapter and verse, does it say we reign with Christ for 1000 years here on earth?
yes i know hes in heaven
now I never said that, I said when he comes
you know in the sky everyone sees, and we go up to meet in the clouds
with oure new bodies
and he comes down to earth, rules with rod of iron.
i allready answered you questions on post # 46
Now, enough of your foolishness and believe what the bible says
my question still stands, a verse that acually says we go to heaven,
now I never said that, I said when he comes
you know in the sky everyone sees, and we go up to meet in the clouds
with oure new bodies
and he comes down to earth, rules with rod of iron.
i allready answered you questions on post # 46
Now, enough of your foolishness and believe what the bible says
my question still stands, a verse that acually says we go to heaven,
When educated people cannot see the multiple scriptures in the NT that plainly speak about not taking care of our inheritance & losing it, I can only come to one conclusion: they don't want to know. When religious people don't want to know the truth, they are endangering themselves & others to the judgement of fire.
1 Samuel 15:23 (NASB) [SUP]23 [/SUP]"For rebellion is as the sin of divination, And insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He has also rejected you from being king."
1 Samuel 15:23 (NASB) [SUP]23 [/SUP]"For rebellion is as the sin of divination, And insubordination is as iniquity and idolatry. Because you have rejected the word of the LORD, He has also rejected you from being king."
Yes that is what these people believe.
To them salvation is purely provisional, salvation is a pure abstraction. They speak of "trusting," "believing," "receiving," and "accepting" as if salvation is a gift wrapped package they get. These folks NEVER speak of a forsaking of evil/rebellion (to God) and being made inwardly pure and then growing in grace and knowledge from thus pure state.
They defend being able to sin over and over again because to them the death of Christ established a cloak for this behaviour. Some might teach "you shouldn't sin" but they will then allude "you will sin," in their mind sinning against God is inevitable.
Sin you will and sin you must is what they believe. Thus if human beings are perpetual sin machines (whilst in flesh bodies) then salvation must deal with this ongoing state by cloaking it in some way.
They just ignore most everything Jesus taught and likewise ignore most everything others in the Bible teach. It is quite astounding how the doctrine of these people is the most popular view today. The wolves control the pulpits, seminaries and the airwaves.
None of these people understand what salvation actually mainly because they utterly reject it. They refuse to believe one can be literally set free from the bondage of sin by the transformation of heart that occurs through repentance and faith where one ends up abiding in the grace of God.
To them salvation is purely provisional, salvation is a pure abstraction. They speak of "trusting," "believing," "receiving," and "accepting" as if salvation is a gift wrapped package they get. These folks NEVER speak of a forsaking of evil/rebellion (to God) and being made inwardly pure and then growing in grace and knowledge from thus pure state.
They defend being able to sin over and over again because to them the death of Christ established a cloak for this behaviour. Some might teach "you shouldn't sin" but they will then allude "you will sin," in their mind sinning against God is inevitable.
Sin you will and sin you must is what they believe. Thus if human beings are perpetual sin machines (whilst in flesh bodies) then salvation must deal with this ongoing state by cloaking it in some way.
They just ignore most everything Jesus taught and likewise ignore most everything others in the Bible teach. It is quite astounding how the doctrine of these people is the most popular view today. The wolves control the pulpits, seminaries and the airwaves.
None of these people understand what salvation actually mainly because they utterly reject it. They refuse to believe one can be literally set free from the bondage of sin by the transformation of heart that occurs through repentance and faith where one ends up abiding in the grace of God.
P
Now you are simply lying. Not one verse said what you claim it does. You said the bible says we will reign with Christ 1000 years here on earth over mortals. That is a lie.
Christ Himself said He has prepared a place for believers in heaven, with Him. You disbelieve scripture.
Proverbs 30:6 "Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."
His words have proven you a liar. You should do something about that before you die.
Christ Himself said He has prepared a place for believers in heaven, with Him. You disbelieve scripture.
Proverbs 30:6 "Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar."
His words have proven you a liar. You should do something about that before you die.
Denying the Savior, & Endorsing "Chance-Giver-ism" Leads to Gehenna
What blows the mind is how unsaved, unregenerate persons go on & on, denying the Scripture, insisting on salvation by works, insisting that at best the Lord Jesus is only a chance-giver -- not a Savior. Such unregenerates have no good works whatever & no prospect of ever doing anything that pleases the Lord. Yet they insist on "salvation by works."
It blows the mind how they cannot trust Christ as SAvior.
They cannot believe the truth:
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sin.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
It does interfere with one's self-righteousness to exclude works & trust the Savior, since that means one is a depraved sinner, so depraved that he must be saved by grace or not at all. It does interfere with self-righteousness to admit that the Lord Jesus is the Savior instead of a chance-giver.
It blows the mind how such unregenerates deny salvation. They only possible way they could ever do good works is to trust the Savior, yet they reject the gospel on the grounds that if anyone believed it, why that would stop good works from happening. Those who have no good works can go on & on about the need for good works.
Eph. 2:1
And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, 2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; 3 among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:—
4 but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: 7 that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus:
8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.
What blows the mind is how unsaved, unregenerate persons go on & on, denying the Scripture, insisting on salvation by works, insisting that at best the Lord Jesus is only a chance-giver -- not a Savior. Such unregenerates have no good works whatever & no prospect of ever doing anything that pleases the Lord. Yet they insist on "salvation by works."
It blows the mind how they cannot trust Christ as SAvior.
They cannot believe the truth:
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sin.
I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish.
It does interfere with one's self-righteousness to exclude works & trust the Savior, since that means one is a depraved sinner, so depraved that he must be saved by grace or not at all. It does interfere with self-righteousness to admit that the Lord Jesus is the Savior instead of a chance-giver.
It blows the mind how such unregenerates deny salvation. They only possible way they could ever do good works is to trust the Savior, yet they reject the gospel on the grounds that if anyone believed it, why that would stop good works from happening. Those who have no good works can go on & on about the need for good works.
Eph. 2:1
And you did he make alive, when ye were dead through your trespasses and sins, 2 wherein ye once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the powers of the air, of the spirit that now worketh in the sons of disobedience; 3 among whom we also all once lived in the lusts of our flesh, doing the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest:—
4 but God, being rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 even when we were dead through our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace have ye been saved), 6 and raised us up with him, and made us to sit with him in the heavenly places, in Christ Jesus: 7 that in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus:
8 for by grace have ye been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; 9 not of works, that no man should glory. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.
Re: Denying the Savior, & Endorsing "Chance-Giver-ism" Leads to Gehenna
Apparently you will always avoid any discussion about heart purity.
Likewise, it seems that you will always avoid any discussion about "serving sin vs serving righteousness" whereby one is a "slave to whom they obey."
All you speak of is "trust" and that Jesus is not a "chance giver" because "trust in the provision cloaks all manner of ongoing vice." Very palatable stuff for those who love their sin and refuse to stop.
Apparently you will always avoid any discussion about heart purity.
Likewise, it seems that you will always avoid any discussion about "serving sin vs serving righteousness" whereby one is a "slave to whom they obey."
All you speak of is "trust" and that Jesus is not a "chance giver" because "trust in the provision cloaks all manner of ongoing vice." Very palatable stuff for those who love their sin and refuse to stop.
K
Re: Denying the Savior, & Endorsing "Chance-Giver-ism" Leads to Gehenna
Wow, making claims that people deny scripture, which is true.
Now I pose to you Matthew 25 again.
One of the dangerous things that has happened is satan influence in understanding of scripture, by putting forth in one's belief don't worry about this scripture in the NT it does not apply to you, or it was only spoken to them not you.
The problem with this philosophy is that they are converted followers of Jesus as well as we who believe in Jesus now days are also converted followers of Him. So the same commands and warnings given to them would apply to us to.
Wow, making claims that people deny scripture, which is true.
Now I pose to you Matthew 25 again.
One of the dangerous things that has happened is satan influence in understanding of scripture, by putting forth in one's belief don't worry about this scripture in the NT it does not apply to you, or it was only spoken to them not you.
The problem with this philosophy is that they are converted followers of Jesus as well as we who believe in Jesus now days are also converted followers of Him. So the same commands and warnings given to them would apply to us to.
Re: Denying the Savior, & Endorsing "Chance-Giver-ism" Leads to Gehenna
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sin
everyone who confess that Jesus is Christ is Lord,
bible says can become a begotten Son of God, not yet born.
no one can be saved with out grace alone.
I call anyone thats with Christ my brother.
Abram had believed God and obeyed now we have grace.
but he did works and was tested and passed,
then his name was changed to Abraham thats rightious now.
but faith without works will get you a name
that is least in the kingdom of heaven.
why stop there but shoot for a better name,
a name only you know on a rock given to u.
build up treasures now for later blessings.
peace to all in Christ I pray
Thou shalt call His name Jesus, for He shall save His people from their sin
everyone who confess that Jesus is Christ is Lord,
bible says can become a begotten Son of God, not yet born.
no one can be saved with out grace alone.
I call anyone thats with Christ my brother.
Abram had believed God and obeyed now we have grace.
but he did works and was tested and passed,
then his name was changed to Abraham thats rightious now.
but faith without works will get you a name
that is least in the kingdom of heaven.
why stop there but shoot for a better name,
a name only you know on a rock given to u.
build up treasures now for later blessings.
peace to all in Christ I pray
OUR CITIZENSHIP IN HEAVEN (off thread, as usual methinks)
I don't know about the "we," or if you are a "we." You might be a cultist (I haven't read enough of you to know). But Christians go to Heaven.
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord [2 Cor 5].
Thus when we die, we go to Heaven, for that is where He is.
2Cor. 5:1
For we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens. 2 For verily in this we groan, longing to be clothed upon with our habitation which is from heaven: 3 if so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For indeed we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened; not for that we would be unclothed, but that we would be clothed upon, that what is mortal may be swallowed up of life. 5 Now he that wrought us for this very thing is God, who gave unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Being therefore always of good courage, and knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord 7 (for we walk by faith, not by sight); 8 we are of good courage, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord.
It is not a damnable heresy to claim that the Christian will live only & eternally on the New Earth and not in Heaven, but it is an error.
Living on the New Earth is clearly going to happen. And the millennium will happen also, as Rev 20 says.
Matt. 5:12
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets that were before you.
John 14:1
Let not your heart be troubled: believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I come again, and will receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go, ye know the way. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; how know we the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.
The Christian's destiny is primarily to be with the Lord Jesus; that is the emphasis.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God. . . . 59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon the Lord, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
1 Cor 15
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is of heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
2Cor. 5:1
For we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens. 2 For verily in this we groan, longing to be clothed upon with our habitation which is from heaven:
Phil. 3:20
For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Col. 1:5
because of the hope which is laid up for you in the heavens, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel,
Heb. 12:23
to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
1Pet. 1:4
unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
Rev. 14:17
And another angel came out from the temple which is in heaven,
11 I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown [victor's wreath]. 12 He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine own new name.
"And there was opened the temple of God that is in heaven;"
Rev. 4:1
"After these things I saw, and behold, a door opened in heaven, and the first voice that I heard, a voice as of a trumpet speaking with me, one saying, Come up hither, and I will show thee the things which must come to pass hereafter. 2 Straightway I was in the Spirit: and behold, there was a throne set in heaven, and one sitting upon the throne; 3 and he that sat was to look upon like a jasper stone and a sardius: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, like an emerald to look upon. 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty thrones: and upon the thrones I saw four and twenty elders sitting, arrayed in white garments; and on their heads crowns [victor's wreaths] of gold."
Rev. 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev. 21:9
And there came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls, who were laden with the seven last plagues; and he spake with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the wife of the Lamb. 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,
Rev 11
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they went up into heaven in the cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
I don't know about the "we," or if you are a "we." You might be a cultist (I haven't read enough of you to know). But Christians go to Heaven.
To be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord [2 Cor 5].
Thus when we die, we go to Heaven, for that is where He is.
2Cor. 5:1
For we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens. 2 For verily in this we groan, longing to be clothed upon with our habitation which is from heaven: 3 if so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. 4 For indeed we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened; not for that we would be unclothed, but that we would be clothed upon, that what is mortal may be swallowed up of life. 5 Now he that wrought us for this very thing is God, who gave unto us the earnest of the Spirit. 6 Being therefore always of good courage, and knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord 7 (for we walk by faith, not by sight); 8 we are of good courage, I say, and are willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be at home with the Lord.
It is not a damnable heresy to claim that the Christian will live only & eternally on the New Earth and not in Heaven, but it is an error.
Living on the New Earth is clearly going to happen. And the millennium will happen also, as Rev 20 says.
Matt. 5:12
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets that were before you.
John 14:1
Let not your heart be troubled: believe in God, believe also in me. 2 In my Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I come again, and will receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. 4 And whither I go, ye know the way. 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; how know we the way? 6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.
The Christian's destiny is primarily to be with the Lord Jesus; that is the emphasis.
55 But he, being full of the Holy Spirit, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing on the right hand of God, 56 and said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of Man standing on the right hand of God. . . . 59 And they stoned Stephen, calling upon the Lord, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.
1 Cor 15
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is of heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
2Cor. 5:1
For we know that if the earthly house of our tabernacle be dissolved, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal, in the heavens. 2 For verily in this we groan, longing to be clothed upon with our habitation which is from heaven:
Phil. 3:20
For our citizenship is in heaven; whence also we wait for a Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Col. 1:5
because of the hope which is laid up for you in the heavens, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel,
Heb. 12:23
to the general assembly and church of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
1Pet. 1:4
unto an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
Rev. 14:17
And another angel came out from the temple which is in heaven,
11 I come quickly: hold fast that which thou hast, that no one take thy crown [victor's wreath]. 12 He that overcometh, I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go out thence no more: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God, and mine own new name.
"And there was opened the temple of God that is in heaven;"
Rev. 4:1
"After these things I saw, and behold, a door opened in heaven, and the first voice that I heard, a voice as of a trumpet speaking with me, one saying, Come up hither, and I will show thee the things which must come to pass hereafter. 2 Straightway I was in the Spirit: and behold, there was a throne set in heaven, and one sitting upon the throne; 3 and he that sat was to look upon like a jasper stone and a sardius: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, like an emerald to look upon. 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty thrones: and upon the thrones I saw four and twenty elders sitting, arrayed in white garments; and on their heads crowns [victor's wreaths] of gold."
Rev. 21:1
And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more. 2 And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev. 21:9
And there came one of the seven angels who had the seven bowls, who were laden with the seven last plagues; and he spake with me, saying, Come hither, I will show thee the bride, the wife of the Lamb. 10 And he carried me away in the Spirit to a mountain great and high, and showed me the holy city Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God,
Rev 11
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they went up into heaven in the cloud; and their enemies beheld them.