Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
N

Noose

Senior Member
#2,001
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#2,001
mailmandan said:
That is, continuance would show that the person's faith is firmly established in the hope of the gospel and they really HAVE BEEN reconciled. The form of this phrase in Greek indicates that Paul fully expects that the Colossian believers will continue in the faith; no doubt is expressed, yet what about "nominal" Christians whose shallow, temporary belief withers away?
Click to expand...
Where does it imply, having started (in faith), you must finish?
All of these literature (twist and turn) still mean one thing, continuance of faith, which means that one can loose it on the way. And it is not Christ to begin the faith in you and then hold fast for you, that's why we are instructed to HOLD ON.

Not only Paul but Christ also instructs us:

Matt 24:13 But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

Rev 2:25 Nevertheless, hold fast to what you have until I come. 26And to the one who is victorious and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations.

Rev 3:11I am coming soon. Hold fast to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will never again leave it. Upon him I will write the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God (the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from My God), and My new name.
 
R

Ruby123

Guest
#2,004
#2,004
Just a thought I had.If we are called the bride of Christ and God is against divorce, how can we lose our salvation?
 
N

Nat2019

Active member
#2,005
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
#2,005
Ruby123 said:
Just a thought I had.If we are called the bride of Christ and God is against divorce, how can we lose our salvation?
Click to expand...
These commands are directed at believers not God. That's the answer:)
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#2,007
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#2,007
Ruby123 said:
Just a thought I had.If we are called the bride of Christ and God is against divorce, how can we lose our salvation?
Click to expand...
The bride of Christ is the one who is victorious, not the ones who think they are victorious- that's why the wedding is at the end.
 
Rosemaryx

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
#2,008
May 3, 2017
3,758
4,120
113
63
#2,008
1 Thessalonians 5:24
Faithful is He who calls you , and He also will bring it to pass...

This is the divine call of Gods holy elect , chosen ones , the God who calls us into His glory , and none will be lost...Amen...xox...
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#2,009
Apr 7, 2014
25,574
13,551
113
58
#2,009
Noose said:
Where does it imply, having started (in faith), you must finish?
All of these literature (twist and turn) still mean one thing, continuance of faith, which means that one can loose it on the way. And it is not Christ to begin the faith in you and then hold fast for you, that's why we are instructed to HOLD ON.

Not only Paul but Christ also instructs us:

Matt 24:13 But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.

Rev 2:25 Nevertheless, hold fast to what you have until I come. 26And to the one who is victorious and continues in My work until the end, I will give authority over the nations.

Rev 3:11I am coming soon. Hold fast to what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12The one who is victorious I will make a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will never again leave it. Upon him I will write the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God (the new Jerusalem that comes down out of heaven from My God), and My new name.
Click to expand...
Saving faith in Christ continues/perseveres and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he who has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. You make it sound like it's ALL about YOU, along with confusing "descriptive" passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture.
 
N

Nat2019

Active member
#2,010
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
#2,010
Rosemaryx said:
1 Thessalonians 5:24
Faithful is He who calls you , and He also will bring it to pass...

This is the divine call of Gods holy elect , chosen ones , the God who calls us into His glory , and none will be lost...Amen...xox...
Click to expand...
Why was Judas then, he had a thrown in heaven. That's what Jesus told him.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#2,011
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#2,011
Ruby123 said:
Just a thought I had.If we are called the bride of Christ and God is against divorce, how can we lose our salvation?
Click to expand...
I personally think we can not loose salvation because salvation is at the end of a process and not the beginning.
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#2,012
Apr 7, 2014
25,574
13,551
113
58
#2,012
Rosemaryx said:
1 Thessalonians 5:24
Faithful is He who calls you , and He also will bring it to pass...

This is the divine call of Gods holy elect , chosen ones , the God who calls us into His glory , and none will be lost...Amen...xox...
Click to expand...
Amen! Romans 8:30 - Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *ALL of them. *Notice how Paul uses the past tense for a future event to stress it's certainty. :)
 
N

Nat2019

Active member
#2,013
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
#2,013
mailmandan said:
Saving faith in Christ continues/perseveres and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he who has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. You make it sound like it's ALL about YOU, along with confusing "descriptive" passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture.
Click to expand...
I agree with your definition of Saving faith. Its does produce fruits. That's what I have been telling you all along;) God will perform a good work in us.

But only if we remain with him to the very end.
 
Rosemaryx

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
#2,014
May 3, 2017
3,758
4,120
113
63
#2,014
Nat2019 said:
Why was Judas then, he had a thrown in heaven. That's what Jesus told him.
Click to expand...
You have no understanding of the Gospel about Judas , it is hard for me to even try to understand that you have no real knowledge of this man that was chosen for Gods own purpose , not chosen for eternal life...

Stop using your own imagination and study the scripture on Judas , and the truth will set you free...xox...
 
N

Nat2019

Active member
#2,015
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
#2,015
Rosemaryx said:
You have no understanding of the Gospel about Judas , it is hard for me to even try to understand that you have no real knowledge of this man that was chosen for Gods own purpose , not chosen for eternal life...

Stop using your own imagination and study the scripture on Judas , and the truth will set you free...xox...
Click to expand...
I already have Jesus told him he had a thrown with 12 of the apostles in heaven. If he was a devil all along, why would Jesus say that?. You need to read the bible more. You lack biblical knowledge. Sorry:(
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#2,016
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#2,016
mailmandan said:
Saving faith in Christ continues/perseveres and is not some shallow, temporary belief that has no root, produces no fruit and withers away. Philippians 1:6 - Being confident of this very thing, that he who has begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. You make it sound like it's ALL about YOU, along with confusing "descriptive" passages of scripture with prescriptive passages of scripture.
Click to expand...
The fact that we are told to hold on means if we don't, we can easily loose it.
True, Christ will guide us but He can't hold on for us, He only guides us if we continue holding on.

Matt 13:
3And He told them many things in parables, saying, “A farmer went out to sow his seed. 4And as he was sowing, some seed fell along the path, and the birds came and devoured it.

5Some fell on rocky ground, where it did not have much soil. It sprang up quickly, because the soil was shallow. 6But when the sun rose, the seedlings were scorched, and they withered because they had no root.

7Other seed fell among thorns, which grew up and choked the seedlings.

8Still other seed fell on good soil and produced a crop—a hundredfold, sixtyfold, or thirtyfold.

.....

18Consider, then, the parable of the sower: 19When anyone hears the message of the kingdom but does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is the seed sowndalong the path.

20The seed sown on rocky ground is the one who hears the word and promptly receives it with joy. 21But since he has no root, he remains for only a season. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.

22The seed sown among the thorns is the one who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, and it becomes unfruitful.
 
N

Noose

Senior Member
#2,017
Apr 18, 2016
5,096
932
113
#2,017
Rosemaryx said:
1 Thessalonians 5:24
Faithful is He who calls you , and He also will bring it to pass...

This is the divine call of Gods holy elect , chosen ones , the God who calls us into His glory , and none will be lost...Amen...xox...
Click to expand...
That would be true for those that are called and also chosen. Many are called but few are chosen. What happens to the rest?
 
S

Sipsey

Well-known member
#2,018
Sep 27, 2018
1,503
715
113
#2,018
Noose said:
Which one corresponds to this?

Matt 24:13 But the one who perseveres to the end will be saved.
Click to expand...
But-
1161. δέ dé; a particle standing after one or two words in a clause, strictly adversative, but more frequently denoting transition or conversion, and serving to introduce something else, whether opposed to what precedes or simply continuative or explanatory. Generally it has the meaning of but, and, or also, namely.

(I) Adversative, meaning but, on the contrary, on the other hand.

Since Jesus begins verse 13 with this word but - best translated “on the other hand,” it would seem He is contrasting two things. If we begin at verse 1 we see the disciples came to Him to “show” Him the temple. (This word translated “to show” implies a bragging, show off, exhibit)

Jesus said, “Can’t you see, or understand?” He explains that the physical temple they revere will be turned into a wasted pile of rocks.

They later asked Him when will all this happen and how will they know, what signs should they look for at “His coming”. Thy coming is a technical term referring to His second coming or return, and they associated this with the end of the world.

Jesus then begins a series of warnings about false teachers, prophets, false messiahs and says many will be killed and suffer for their faith.

What is paramount to understand is that the verse you use as a universal standard is valid, but the way it’s used here is very different.

You see, Jesus is talking about the ends times. The Tribulation- it’s a unique time in God’s plan. The Holy Spirit will be withdrawn and it will be the most difficult time in history to be a believer. And yes, the one who endures the Tribulation, will be saved. Jesus is speaking about a very specific time in history.

See how the context can really add to our understanding?
 
Rosemaryx

Rosemaryx

Senior Member
#2,019
May 3, 2017
3,758
4,120
113
63
#2,019
Nat2019 said:
I already have Jesus told him he had a thrown with 12 of the apostles in heaven. If he was a devil all along, why would Jesus say that?. You need to read the bible more. You lack biblical knowledge. Sorry:(
Click to expand...
Matthias took the place of Judas did he not...
24 Then they prayed, “Lord, you know the hearts of all. Show us which one of these two you have chosen 25 to assume the task of this service and apostleship from which Judas turned aside to go to his own place.” 26 Then they cast lots for them, and the one chosen was Matthias; so he was counted with the eleven apostles.

Acts 1:17:24
 
N

Nat2019

Active member
#2,020
Jul 14, 2019
890
237
43
#2,020
Nat2019 said:
I already have Jesus told him he had a thrown with 12 of the apostles in heaven. If he was a devil all along, why would Jesus say that?. You need to read the bible more. You lack biblical knowledge. Sorry:(
Click to expand...
Matthew 19:27-29 New International Version (NIV)
27 Peter answered him, “(We) have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”

28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, (you who have followed me) will also sit on (twelve thrones), judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[a] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life.

12 thrones for 12 diciples
 
You must log in or register to reply here.