Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.
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Since Simon is called a "sorcerer" (as opposed to a former sorcerer which he would have been prior to his "salvation"), chances are very good that his faith was spurious at best, and he would not be only one in scripture with such "faith". It's doubtful that he had been given the new heart promised in the New Covenant, since as a supposed new convert his heart, as Peter said, was "not right before God." How could someone fall away so quickly? His heart was filled with bitterness and captive to sin, which are certainly NOT marks of a true believer.
One the other hand, if he was a true believer to begin with and he prayed to God as Peter exhorted him to do, then maybe God did forgive him. The passage doesn't say. But it is noteworthy that Peter did say, "PERHAPS he will forgive you for having such a thought in your heart", which is rather strange language if he were a true believer given all that scripture teaches us believers about praying for forgiveness, e.g. 1Jn 1:9. 1Jn 1:9 doesn't say that "perhaps" God will forgive our sins.
If Acts 8 is the best proof text you have, your false doctrine is truly on very shaky ground.
One the other hand, if he was a true believer to begin with and he prayed to God as Peter exhorted him to do, then maybe God did forgive him. The passage doesn't say. But it is noteworthy that Peter did say, "PERHAPS he will forgive you for having such a thought in your heart", which is rather strange language if he were a true believer given all that scripture teaches us believers about praying for forgiveness, e.g. 1Jn 1:9. 1Jn 1:9 doesn't say that "perhaps" God will forgive our sins.
If Acts 8 is the best proof text you have, your false doctrine is truly on very shaky ground.
Nothing can thwart God's purposes (Job 42:2). Nor is there any human wisdom, insight or plan that can succeed against God (21:30).
As far as "freewill" is concerned, that's a myth. Man is in bondage to sin, to his sin nature, to evil passions and pleasures, to the devil, to the world. The last thing man is free FROM is sin! And this is why God gives his chosen people a new heart in this New Covenant age, since the old one is totally corrupt.
As far as "freewill" is concerned, that's a myth. Man is in bondage to sin, to his sin nature, to evil passions and pleasures, to the devil, to the world. The last thing man is free FROM is sin! And this is why God gives his chosen people a new heart in this New Covenant age, since the old one is totally corrupt.
That happened to me in religion. I went to a place of earth worship, and got put under Law. I got the thought(s) I better stop this and that. So I became a worker =, over a believer. I remained a believer, yet work(s) were leading me to not do.
What did I do, read Romans 7, yes I did and got trapped in that trap of evil. That became a trait in me, that began as a practice to not do, to a habit trying to not do it again and did it again, not wanting to. Then that habit became a characteristic and then a trait. Oh boy,
Stressed out to the max, not ever being good enough, having thought(s) of I got to stop and could not as it got worse over time.
Then I heard and looked it up, God has (past tense) forgiven you by Son Jesus for you. This preacher, I heard asked a ? over the radio (People to people ministries) back then.
Said find me one place in the Bible that any of the disciples asked for more forgiveness from God after the cross of Son as risen?
I found 1 John 1:9, called him up and said 1 John 1:9
The reply I got was to look up 1 John in the Greek, it does not say he will forgive you. It states to have forgiven you. Then I looked to the scriptures, saw in past tense, has forgiven us ll by Son for us. Only one scripture that gets the thought we have to get forgiven all over again, 1 John 1:9. When Ephesians 1:6:7 says we are (past tense) forgiven and accepted in God the beloved.
I began to see this un-forgiveness is not from God it is from people, me included
Therefore I asked God to teach me new and not give any other person the reins. God does that for us all, teaches each person personally first in this love and mercy given us by Son for us, at least me.
Then I was in a new practice to become a new habit, to become a new characteristic to a new trait. As the old traits were winding down, the reverse began and it was not easy to let go of what others say and just simply have a relationship with God personally, who I do not physically see
2 Cor 5:16 tells me, the disciples once knew Christ in the flesh, yet today no more, now in Spirit only, ( 2 Cor 5:17-20) the the realization we are reconciled by Son on that cross once for us all to either believe God or not consciously
No more work for me to do. Now it is God's done work through me by God for me
Luke 21:14-15
Daily settling this within myself, God loves us all and God knows the truth in each of us, so I see not to predict anything I might get thought of, and simply trust God to do what is needed to get done through me, hoping for all others to rest in this mess we each are in on this earth also
What did I do, read Romans 7, yes I did and got trapped in that trap of evil. That became a trait in me, that began as a practice to not do, to a habit trying to not do it again and did it again, not wanting to. Then that habit became a characteristic and then a trait. Oh boy,
Stressed out to the max, not ever being good enough, having thought(s) of I got to stop and could not as it got worse over time.
Then I heard and looked it up, God has (past tense) forgiven you by Son Jesus for you. This preacher, I heard asked a ? over the radio (People to people ministries) back then.
Said find me one place in the Bible that any of the disciples asked for more forgiveness from God after the cross of Son as risen?
I found 1 John 1:9, called him up and said 1 John 1:9
The reply I got was to look up 1 John in the Greek, it does not say he will forgive you. It states to have forgiven you. Then I looked to the scriptures, saw in past tense, has forgiven us ll by Son for us. Only one scripture that gets the thought we have to get forgiven all over again, 1 John 1:9. When Ephesians 1:6:7 says we are (past tense) forgiven and accepted in God the beloved.
I began to see this un-forgiveness is not from God it is from people, me included
Therefore I asked God to teach me new and not give any other person the reins. God does that for us all, teaches each person personally first in this love and mercy given us by Son for us, at least me.
Then I was in a new practice to become a new habit, to become a new characteristic to a new trait. As the old traits were winding down, the reverse began and it was not easy to let go of what others say and just simply have a relationship with God personally, who I do not physically see
2 Cor 5:16 tells me, the disciples once knew Christ in the flesh, yet today no more, now in Spirit only, ( 2 Cor 5:17-20) the the realization we are reconciled by Son on that cross once for us all to either believe God or not consciously
No more work for me to do. Now it is God's done work through me by God for me
Luke 21:14-15
Daily settling this within myself, God loves us all and God knows the truth in each of us, so I see not to predict anything I might get thought of, and simply trust God to do what is needed to get done through me, hoping for all others to rest in this mess we each are in on this earth also
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Gospel is
G od's
O nly
S on's
P urpose
E ternal
L ife
Christ is risen by Father on that third day, with all sin taken out of the way, done on that cross one time for all. in his last shedding of blood for anymore forgiveness ever again
It is finished John 19:30
New life is yet to begin and it does in all those that believe God personally, each person in a different growing up stage
Just like any fruit tree that has fruit on it. Some fruit is ripe and ready to pick and eat, other fruit is not yet ripe, yet both the mature fruit and the not mature fruit are both perfectly made
This fruit begins for anyone that sincerely believes God, Eph 1:6-7, 13, Phil 1 :6, Maturity Hebrews 5:12- 6:6
My confession is : "I" need God, and Son is the way, who is risen for us all to be new and love all, not just a few as we all only do love those that love us back normally, in first birth on this earth
Thanks, can we agree on this truth? Thank you
G od's
O nly
S on's
P urpose
E ternal
L ife
Christ is risen by Father on that third day, with all sin taken out of the way, done on that cross one time for all. in his last shedding of blood for anymore forgiveness ever again
It is finished John 19:30
New life is yet to begin and it does in all those that believe God personally, each person in a different growing up stage
Just like any fruit tree that has fruit on it. Some fruit is ripe and ready to pick and eat, other fruit is not yet ripe, yet both the mature fruit and the not mature fruit are both perfectly made
This fruit begins for anyone that sincerely believes God, Eph 1:6-7, 13, Phil 1 :6, Maturity Hebrews 5:12- 6:6
My confession is : "I" need God, and Son is the way, who is risen for us all to be new and love all, not just a few as we all only do love those that love us back normally, in first birth on this earth
Thanks, can we agree on this truth? Thank you
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Not temporary.
[Jer 3:7-8 KJV]
7 And I said after she had done all these [things], Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw [it].
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
[Deu 24:4 KJV]
4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that [is] abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee [for] an inheritance.
[Jer 3:7-8 KJV]
7 And I said after she had done all these [things], Turn thou unto me. But she returned not. And her treacherous sister Judah saw [it].
8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.
[Deu 24:4 KJV]
4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that [is] abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee [for] an inheritance.
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Should he believe this warning in the kjv about salvation ?
“Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
Hebrews 2:1-4 KJV
Or this later as the word continues ?
“Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; while it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.”
Hebrews 3:12-15 KJV
This one ?
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”
Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV
“Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; and having an high priest over the house of God; let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Let us (1) hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
(2) and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(This isn’t saying “ if we continue on sinning willfully we’re going to be saved , it says there’s nothing left but a certain fiery destruction with gods enemies at judgement )
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
Hebrews 10:19-31
These things aren’t adding up to “not being about salvation” and “it’s not possible to lose it “ if we read a chapter at a time this stuff is found in about every other chapter of the Bible on average
It’s meant to change our minds from what is opposed to it as we learn what’s there so we begin to believe right and live right
If we believe and never turn back we’re going to be saved or even if we stop and fall into sin for a bit and then return we’re going to be saved but also we can turn away and never come back which we are condemning ourselves , God gave us salvation and we squandered it in rebellion to the gospel we aren’t forced to repent or believe it’s an offer in the gospel to repent and believe and be saved
“Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
Hebrews 2:1-4 KJV
Or this later as the word continues ?
“Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; while it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.”
Hebrews 3:12-15 KJV
This one ?
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”
Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV
“Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; and having an high priest over the house of God; let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Let us (1) hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
(2) and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(This isn’t saying “ if we continue on sinning willfully we’re going to be saved , it says there’s nothing left but a certain fiery destruction with gods enemies at judgement )
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
Hebrews 10:19-31
These things aren’t adding up to “not being about salvation” and “it’s not possible to lose it “ if we read a chapter at a time this stuff is found in about every other chapter of the Bible on average
It’s meant to change our minds from what is opposed to it as we learn what’s there so we begin to believe right and live right
If we believe and never turn back we’re going to be saved or even if we stop and fall into sin for a bit and then return we’re going to be saved but also we can turn away and never come back which we are condemning ourselves , God gave us salvation and we squandered it in rebellion to the gospel we aren’t forced to repent or believe it’s an offer in the gospel to repent and believe and be saved
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What makes no sense from what the "salvation can be lost" crowd has been saying is that they seem to think that seeking salvation through faith, one is then trapped. Where it's true that many a fella who joined the military felt trapped once they saw what it's like to have to live by discipline, that is not at all comparable to eternal salvation. I have NEVER met a true believer who said that he felt trapped and wanted out. Not ONE of the "salvation can be lost" gang has stated that they have ever met anyone who lost their salvation.
If we didn't have free will, then the Bible is a huge lie:
Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
If mankind in general had no free will, then this and many, many other verses make absolutely no sense whatsoever.
MM
If we didn't have free will, then the Bible is a huge lie:
Joshua 24:15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that [were] on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
If mankind in general had no free will, then this and many, many other verses make absolutely no sense whatsoever.
MM
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The Bible describes two Israels - a physical Israel and a spiritual Israel. The 'Israel' mentioned in Romans 11:25 symbolizes the Israel of God, which is the new, spiritual Israel made up of all the elect, rather than the physical nation of Israel or those who adhere to its religious doctrines and practices.
[Gal 6:15-16 KJV]
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
[Rom 11:25-26 KJV]
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
[Gal 6:15-16 KJV]
15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.
16 And as many as walk according to this rule, peace [be] on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.
[Rom 11:25-26 KJV]
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Genesis 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
THEN, in the Mosaic Law, Israel was forbidden to eat many of the moving things that liveth.
The Lord's own purposes were and are perfect for those to whom they were aimed and addressed. Paul's spoken Gospel to us today is not like that gospel spoken to Israel and the apostles.
The above two verses prove that the Lord spoke different things to different people at different times.
The idea that everything written in the Bible is for all people of all time, I have yet to meet up with anyone who is seeking to sacrifice an animal for sin. I have yet to meet anyone who demands that perverts and rebellious children be stoned to death. None of them are building protective fencing around the edge of the roof of their house as is commanded in the Mosaic Law.
So, let's see if they can harmonize what was not meant to be intermixed without creating discontinuities.
MM
Genesis 9:3 Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.
THEN, in the Mosaic Law, Israel was forbidden to eat many of the moving things that liveth.
The Lord's own purposes were and are perfect for those to whom they were aimed and addressed. Paul's spoken Gospel to us today is not like that gospel spoken to Israel and the apostles.
The above two verses prove that the Lord spoke different things to different people at different times.
The idea that everything written in the Bible is for all people of all time, I have yet to meet up with anyone who is seeking to sacrifice an animal for sin. I have yet to meet anyone who demands that perverts and rebellious children be stoned to death. None of them are building protective fencing around the edge of the roof of their house as is commanded in the Mosaic Law.
So, let's see if they can harmonize what was not meant to be intermixed without creating discontinuities.
MM
Should he believe this warning in the kjv about salvation ?
“Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
Hebrews 2:1-4 KJV
Or this later as the word continues ?
“Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; while it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.”
Hebrews 3:12-15 KJV
This one ?
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”
Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV
“Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; and having an high priest over the house of God; let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Let us (1) hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
(2) and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(This isn’t saying “ if we continue on sinning willfully we’re going to be saved , it says there’s nothing left but a certain fiery destruction with gods enemies at judgement )
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
Hebrews 10:19-31
These things aren’t adding up to “not being about salvation” and “it’s not possible to lose it “ if we read a chapter at a time this stuff is found in about every other chapter of the Bible on average
It’s meant to change our minds from what is opposed to it as we learn what’s there so we begin to believe right and live right
If we believe and never turn back we’re going to be saved or even if we stop and fall into sin for a bit and then return we’re going to be saved but also we can turn away and never come back which we are condemning ourselves , God gave us salvation and we squandered it in rebellion to the gospel we aren’t forced to repent or believe it’s an offer in the gospel to repent and believe and be saved
“Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip. For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward; how shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation; which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed unto us by them that heard him; God also bearing them witness, both with signs and wonders, and with divers miracles, and gifts of the Holy Ghost, according to his own will?”
Hebrews 2:1-4 KJV
Or this later as the word continues ?
“Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end; while it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.”
Hebrews 3:12-15 KJV
This one ?
“For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.”
Hebrews 6:4-6 KJV
“Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; and having an high priest over the house of God; let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
Let us (1) hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised
(2) and let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.
For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(This isn’t saying “ if we continue on sinning willfully we’re going to be saved , it says there’s nothing left but a certain fiery destruction with gods enemies at judgement )
He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.”
Hebrews 10:19-31
These things aren’t adding up to “not being about salvation” and “it’s not possible to lose it “ if we read a chapter at a time this stuff is found in about every other chapter of the Bible on average
It’s meant to change our minds from what is opposed to it as we learn what’s there so we begin to believe right and live right
If we believe and never turn back we’re going to be saved or even if we stop and fall into sin for a bit and then return we’re going to be saved but also we can turn away and never come back which we are condemning ourselves , God gave us salvation and we squandered it in rebellion to the gospel we aren’t forced to repent or believe it’s an offer in the gospel to repent and believe and be saved
Amazing grace given not of works, (self works) Of God's done works of Son for God's music to get given us, free of charge forever, as religion does the opposite, at least that be my experience, along with people in general, which in past I have been guilty of using this grace for my own advantage also. Seeing differently now, thanking God for God's love and mercy of Son for us all, I see Hebrews 4 to rest in trust to God's done work of Son for me and all others also
Amazing grace given to believe it or not
Believe willingly, receive, and see as the new you has begun in you too, by God for us to be new. Amazing grace this is y'all, so stand therefore stand in trust to God who did it for us to appreciate and not take for granted and use it for any self gain, thanks
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James taught works:
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Faith has always been an element of truly following God, whether under the Law or not, and here is James upholding the necessity of works for justification coupled with faith.
Paul, on the other hand said this:
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Both men taught what was/is true. What James taught was true for those under the Kingdom Gospel, and Paul taught what is still relevant today. You disagreed with the clarity of what I showed in the differences between the Kingdom Gospel and the Gospel of Grace. That's on you, and I would hope that you would do further study and rightly divide the word of truth.
MM
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Faith has always been an element of truly following God, whether under the Law or not, and here is James upholding the necessity of works for justification coupled with faith.
Paul, on the other hand said this:
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Both men taught what was/is true. What James taught was true for those under the Kingdom Gospel, and Paul taught what is still relevant today. You disagreed with the clarity of what I showed in the differences between the Kingdom Gospel and the Gospel of Grace. That's on you, and I would hope that you would do further study and rightly divide the word of truth.
MM
We are justified by the works of Christ, not by the works of man. It is Christ's works AND His faith, that brought forth salvation.
Galatians 2:16 refers to the "faith OF Christ," not "faith IN Christ." We are justified solely through Christ, not by anything we can produce. This is the reason He bears the title of Savior, and we do not.
[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Galatians 2:16 refers to the "faith OF Christ," not "faith IN Christ." We are justified solely through Christ, not by anything we can produce. This is the reason He bears the title of Savior, and we do not.
[Gal 2:16 KJV] 16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
It has always been God's will to save those who are destined to be saved through grace, not by works or law.
[Eze 20:23-25 KJV]
23 I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries;
24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.
25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes [that were] not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;
[Eze 20:23-25 KJV]
23 I lifted up mine hand unto them also in the wilderness, that I would scatter them among the heathen, and disperse them through the countries;
24 Because they had not executed my judgments, but had despised my statutes, and had polluted my sabbaths, and their eyes were after their fathers' idols.
25 Wherefore I gave them also statutes [that were] not good, and judgments whereby they should not live;