Why I now believe that salvation can be lost.

[Musicmaster]

John the Baptist"s and Jesus' ministries were fulfilling the last week of Daniel's 70 weeks of years determined on Daniel's people as the custodians of the Word of God.

To me that's just pure nonsense, because at no time throughout the history of the world was 1/2 of the world's population wiped out as will be the case in the tribulation period, otherwise known as Jacob's 70th heptad. 1/2 of the world's population was also not wiped out after the ascension of Christ, nor at any time within proximity of that event.

Ephesians 3:5 makes it clear that Paul's gospel was also understood and being preached by Peter and the other apostles, not just Paul.

I already showed the glaring differences, and if you can't see them, then...oh well.

3 ...the mystery

; (as I wrote afore in few words, ...
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Injecting the reference to the apostles, plural, as including the original twelve, that's a convenient forcing of the text.

Do you not think that interpretation of James makes sense and meshes with Pau, who said that if Abraham is justified by works, he has something to boast about [before men] but not before God. Our works don't earn us good standing with God. It is our faith occurring, before the obedience which flows out of our genuine faith, that God recognises and reckons to us as righteousness.

Sorry, but I choose not to instigate subjective interpretations to try and mesh together two different systems of truth into one.

I don't see any difference between the gospel taught by Jesus, by the Twelve and by Paul. I do see the Twelve's and Paul's and our own understanding of that same gospel growing over time as we study God's word and practise it.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4
1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

That was and is Paul's Gospel for all Gentiles and Jews under the Gospel of Grace. Jesus speaking to the Jews, and the original twelve apostles speaking to the Jews to whom they were sent, had other elements to the Kingdom Gospel they preached, which included the hearers also having to "endure unto the end so that ye SHALL be saved," (FUTURE tense). That is NOT the Gospel Paul preached and stood by.

Paul taught that the Gospel of Grace includes one key element NOT stated in the Kingdom Gospel:

2 Corinthians 1:22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also [trusted], after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Ephesians 4:30 And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption.

Jesus and the original twelve did not preach the sealing of Holy Spirit. When trying to mesh together the concept of having to "persevere unto the end," which is by one's own strength, versus being SEALED unto salvation, you're going to have to do some jigs and gyrations that will only betray your error.

MM

 

[Beckworth]

Since Simon is called a "sorcerer" (as opposed to a former sorcerer which he would have been prior to his "salvation"), chances are very good that his faith was spurious at best, and he would not be only one in scripture with such "faith". It's doubtful that he had been given the new heart promised in the New Covenant, since as a supposed new convert his heart, as Peter said, was "not right before God." How could someone fall away so quickly? His heart was filled with bitterness and captive to sin, which are certainly NOT marks of a true believer.

One the other hand, if he was a true believer to begin with and he prayed to God as Peter exhorted him to do, then maybe God did forgive him. The passage doesn't say. But it is noteworthy that Peter did say, "PERHAPS he will forgive you for having such a thought in your heart", which is rather strange language if he were a true believer given all that scripture teaches us believers about praying for forgiveness, e.g. 1Jn 1:9. 1Jn 1:9 doesn't say that "perhaps" God will forgive our sins.

If Acts 8 is the best proof text you have, your false doctrine is truly on very shaky ground.

CHANCES ARE?? IT’S DOUBTFUL THAT…That’s your argument? You don’t really know anything for sure. You are going to argue on the basis that God didn’t use the word “former” sorcerer? Oh my!! So that makes him an unsaved person? Sir, it’s not MY faith that is on “very shaky ground.” Surely you can do better than that!

If you will read my other posts on this site , you will see I have given many scriptures that teach a saved person can be lost. Your “answer” is the same as all the other Calvinist’s—he wasn’t saved in the first place. Are you God , that you can see a person’s heart and know whether he was saved or not saved ; , when the inspired scripture says he BELIEVED and was BAPTIZED? Talk about JUDGING!! I am always amazed when you say a person was not saved. Isn’t God the only one to judge and KNOW that? Now if there was some thing said in the scripture that would indicate he was not saved, I could understand it—maybe— but everything stated in that story indicates that Simon WAS saved. Only someone who doesn’t want to believe a person can be lost would ignore the obvious and say the opposite. That suggests to me that you are not really searching for the “truth”, you are only interested In promoting John Calvin and his doctrine. Matthew 15:9-“ In vain they worship me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.”

But… just in case the person reading this does not know what the Bible says, here is the proof -as 1 Thess. 5:21 says we need to prove all things,
——Exodus 32:332-33-Moses said, “Forgive them or else BLOT ME OUT OF YOUR BOOK.” Moses believed he could be lost; or are you going to say that Moses was never saved? That seems to be your answer for everything. “The Lord said to Moses, ‘WHOEVER HAS SINNED AGAINST ME, I WILL BLOT HIM OUT of MY BOOK.” Moses and God were talking about God’s people, the Israelites. Read the context if you don’t believe it. These were God’s chosen people—not unbelievers, not gentiles, but the ones He promised to give the “promise land to. Put this with….
—-Revelation 3:5- Jesus said, “He who overcomes (sin) shall be clothed in white and I will NOT BLOT OUT HIS NAME FROM THE BOOK OF LIFE.” He was talking to the CHURCH , and he told them to repent. The reverse of that would have to be true— If you don’t repent, , I WILL blot out your name from the book of life.
—-1 Cor. 9:27- Paul said he was in a race ( life) for an imperishable “crown” (of life, heaven). Verse 25, Paul says he tries not to sin “ lest when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.( thereby losing the race and the crown). So far we have MOSES and PAUL and GOD testifying that Saved people can be lost spiritually.
—-1 Tim. 1:18- having FAITH and a good conscience, who some have rejected having shipwrecked their faith.
—-1 Cor. 10:12- “Therefore let him who thinks he stands (strong in the faith) take heed lest he FALL. Fall from where? If they are not saved they are already lost, so where did they FALL FROM and where did they FALL TO?!?! PLEASE Answer.
—-2 John 8-9-“Look to yourselves THAT WE DO NOT LOSE the things we worked for ( these are NOT UNBELIEVERS), but that we may receive a full reward….Whoever does NOT ABIDE in the doctrine of Christ HAS NOT GOD.” They have to be “IN” the doctrine of Christ in order to “ABIDE” in it.
—-Roman’s 11:22-“ Toward you goodness, IF you continue in His goodness, OTHERWISE, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF.” They were SAVED because they were IN GOD’s GOODNESS. You can’t CONTINUE in something if you are not already in it in the first place. But he tells them if they don’t CONTINUE in His goodness, HE WILL CUT THEM OFF. This harmonizes with Revelation 3:10- remain FAITHFUL to the end and He will give you a crown of life. It’s conditional upon FAITHFULNESS.
—-1 Chron. 28:9- David said to Solomon,”If you forsake Him(God), hHe will cast you off forever!” Was Solomon NOT saved? No! Solomon was God’s handpicked King of the Jewish people. Of course he was saved and so was David. Here we have another testimony from King David.
—-Rev. 2:4- Jesus speaking to the CHURCH (saved people), “Repent! Or I will remove your lamp stand.”
—-Hebrews 2:1- “Give heed to the things we have heard, lest we DRIFT AWAY. Paul says “WE” placing himself in the group he is speaking to. Was Paul saved or are you going to say he was never saved? Or do you think he was saved but the people he was talking to were not . Then why put himself in that group of unsaved people? He placed himself as one of the ones who could DRIFT AWAY.
—-Hebrews 4:11- “Be diligent to enter that rest ( heaven) lest anyone FALL according to the same example of DISOBEDIENCE. Fall from where? Fall to where?
—-Hebrews 6:4-6- “For it is impossible for those who were once ENLIGHTENED ( by the gospel), and HAVE TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT ( Of salvation) aThey have been saved. “AND HAVE BEEN PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND HAVE TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, if they FALL AWAY to RENEW THEM AGAIN to repentance.”
—-Hebrews 10:35- Therefore do not CAST AWAY your confidence ( of salvation), which has great reward. For you need to ENDURE, so that AFTER YOU HAVE DONE THE WILL OF GOD, you may receive the promise (of heaven). Read the preceding verses-32-34. These were Christian’s who had suffered persecution because (verse34), because “they knew they had a better and enduring possession for yourselves in heaven.”
—-Hebrews 12:15 “Lest anyone FALL SHORT of the grace of God.” Read who these people are in verse 1.
—-Galations 5:4- “YOU ARE FALLEN FROM GRACE.” Please tell me if God WANTED TO WARN US that we could fall from grace and be lost, how could he have said it any better?
—-2 Peter 3:17- you, BELOVED ( Christian), BEWARE, lest you FALL FROM YOUR OWN STEADFASTNESS—did you get that? These people had been STEADFAST. (Definition: loyal, faithful, devoted firm, unwavering.) being LED AWAY from what? With the error of the wicked.” (You) Grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Wouldn’t you have to be IN GRACE before you could GROW IN GRACE?

As you read this remember that God is looking for, not just sincere hearts, but Honest hearts also. God’s word will not return unto Him void. But it will accomplish what He pleases. Isaiah 55:11

 

[rogerg]

As a clarification, I was't talking about Christ, James was not talking about Christ, and Paul was not talking about Christ when it comes to grace versus works.

MM

You obviously weren't because you don't believe Christ is the Savior, but they were speaking of Christ as Savior, therefore, so too do I. Everything related to grace is founded upon, and comes from, Christ alone. No human work can augment or diminish grace; such actions are neither necessary, nor permissible. Grace is applied purely as a divine gift from God, given freely and fully to those for whom it was intended. Those saved do perform good works, yet they are a consequence of salvation, not a prerequisite for it.

 

[Beckworth]

Nothing can thwart God's purposes (Job 42:2). Nor is there any human wisdom, insight or plan that can succeed against God (21:30).

As far as "freewill" is concerned, that's a myth. Man is in bondage to sin, to his sin nature, to evil passions and pleasures, to the devil, to the world. The last thing man is free FROM is sin! And this is why God gives his chosen people a new heart in this New Covenant age, since the old one is totally corrupt.

I suppose you are saying that man cannot “choose” to become a Christian . Since he is not “ free from sin”, has a sinful nature, is in bondage to sin and has NO free will to change or do anything about it, he has to go to hell—he has no choice. Yes, I guess if you are a follower of Calvin that is your doctrine. I’m glad it’s yours and not mine. Makes me wonder why Jesus had to die on the cross. It makes no difference what so ever because we don’t have a choice. It’s already been decided for us. That is SOME DOCTRINE! It makes us nothing but robots with no mind or will of our own.

If you read and study the Bible you know this is not and cannot be true.

 

[rogerg]

The problem with many people's understanding of that verse if that they equate it with extreme Calvinism, in that God decides who is saved and who is not. The body of Christ in general is what the Lord had determined from the foundations of the world, but that's another topic entirely.

MM

The body of Christ is comprised only of the elect, saved. There is no "body of Christ in general". Each and every person
in it was chosen specifically and individually by God to become a part of it, from before the foundation of the world - it is not based upon our will nor our choice.

 

[Magenta]

Many here believe we do not have free will.

Many here refuse to acknowledge that the Bible does not teach that the natural man has a will
that is free. It is in bondage to sin due to fear of death, enslaved to the devil's will, a lover of
darkness. That is what the Bible actually teaches, but so far you have refused to admit this.

It makes no difference what so ever because we don’t have a choice.

You make a common error in assuming that choice equals freedom. Where
did you go so wrong??? Jesus sets us free. That is what Scripture teaches.

 

[Rufus]

[QUOTE="Musicmaster, post: 5357743, member: 305060"]No thanks. I'm not into Covenant Theology because it's used as the springboard into Replacement Theology, which is a doctrine from Hell.

MM[/QUOTE]

Congrats! I'm not either. But neither am I into making man's finite, fallible, carnal reasoning powers the final authority for understanding scripture. You reach your fallacious conclusion because you don't understand the Abrahamic Covenant's Inclusive Promise for spiritual seed, which involves Israel and the Gentile nations. Understanding the four seeds of the Covenant is actually crucial to understanding soteriorology and eschatology.

 

[Musicmaster]

You obviously weren't because you don't believe Christ is the Savior, but they were speaking of Christ as Savior, therefore, so too do I. Everything related to grace is founded upon, and comes from, Christ alone. No human work can augment or diminish grace; such actions are neither necessary, nor permissible. Grace is applied purely as a divine gift from God, given freely and fully to those for whom it was intended. Those saved do perform good works, yet they are a consequence of salvation, not a prerequisite for it.

I don't know where you got the idea that Christ is not the Savior from what I said. Is manufacturing statements in the writings of others the best you have in your arsenal? Is that all you have? False accusation?

I have better things to do with my time than to banter with you.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

[QUOTE="Musicmaster, post: 5357743, member: 305060"]No thanks. I'm not into Covenant Theology because it's used as the springboard into Replacement Theology, which is a doctrine from Hell.

MM

Congrats! I'm not either. But neither am I into making man's finite, fallible, carnal reasoning powers the final authority for understanding scripture. You reach your fallacious conclusion because you don't understand the Abrahamic Covenant's Inclusive Promise for spiritual seed, which involves Israel and the Gentile nations. Understanding the four seeds of the Covenant is actually crucial to understanding soteriorology and eschatology.[/QUOTE]

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Being brought into one body by the all sufficient Blood of Christ, yes, but the Church is not the replacement of Israel on this earth. That is what I was saying in relation to what it sounded like you were positing.

MM

 

[Cameron143]

Congrats! I'm not either. But neither am I into making man's finite, fallible, carnal reasoning powers the final authority for understanding scripture. You reach your fallacious conclusion because you don't understand the Abrahamic Covenant's Inclusive Promise for spiritual seed, which involves Israel and the Gentile nations. Understanding the four seeds of the Covenant is actually crucial to understanding soteriorology and eschatology.

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether [we be] Jews or Gentiles, whether [we be] bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Being brought into one body by the all sufficient Blood of Christ, yes, but the Church is not the replacement of Israel on this earth. That is what I was saying in relation to what it sounded like you were positing.

MM[/QUOTE]
Under what covenant would Jews be dealt with any differently than individuals from any other nation?

 

[Magenta]

1 Corinthians 12:13

 

[Rufus]

CHANCES ARE?? IT’S DOUBTFUL THAT…That’s your argument? You don’t really know anything for sure. You are going to argue on the basis that God didn’t use the word “former” sorcerer? Oh my!! So that makes him an unsaved person? Sir, it’s not MY faith that is on “very shaky ground.” Surely you can do better than that!

I made my argument and it went well beyond "chances are" and "doubtful that". I drew the clear parallels between the "believing" disciples who followed after Jesus in John 6 and Simon the Sorcerer. Here's one more: Since Simon was into sorcery, that would have made him a very special kind of child of the devil. And since his only interest after he "believed" and was baptized were spiritual gifts that he could use for his own personal gain, then it's highly probable that he had the kind of heart described in the Parable of the Four Soils in verses 13 or 14. Verse 13 says, "they believed for a while" -- just like the false disciples of Jesus in John 6. Spurious faith is actually a spiritual reality, but you can't accept this fact because it would poke a big hole into your presuppositions.

If you will read my other posts on this site , you will see I have given many scriptures that teach a saved person can be lost. Your “answer” is the same as all the other Calvinist’s—he wasn’t saved in the first place. Are you God , that you can see a person’s heart and know whether he was saved or not saved ; , when the inspired scripture says he BELIEVED and was BAPTIZED? Talk about JUDGING!! I am always amazed when you say a person was not saved. Isn’t God the only one to judge and KNOW that? Now if there was some thing said in the scripture that would indicate he was not saved, I could understand it—maybe— but everything stated in that story indicates that Simon WAS saved. Only someone who doesn’t want to believe a person can be lost would ignore the obvious and say the opposite. That suggests to me that you are not really searching for the “truth”, you are only interested In promoting John Calvin and his doctrine. Matthew 15:9-“ In vain they worship me, teaching as doctrine the commandments of men.”

But… just in case the person reading this does not know what the Bible says, here is the proof -as 1 Thess. 5:21 says we need to prove all things,
——Exodus 32:332-33-Moses said, “Forgive them or else BLOT ME OUT OF YOUR BOOK.” Moses believed he could be lost; or are you going to say that Moses was never saved? That seems to be your answer for everything. “The Lord said to Moses, ‘WHOEVER HAS SINNED AGAINST ME, I WILL BLOT HIM OUT of MY BOOK.” Moses and God were talking about God’s people, the Israelites. Read the context if you don’t believe it. These were God’s chosen people—not unbelievers, not gentiles, but the ones He promised to give the “promise land to. Put this with….
—-Revelation 3:5- Jesus said, “He who overcomes (sin) shall be clothed in white and I will NOT BLOT OUT HIS NAME FROM THE BOOK OF LIFE.” He was talking to the CHURCH , and he told them to repent. The reverse of that would have to be true— If you don’t repent, , I WILL blot out your name from the book of life.
—-1 Cor. 9:27- Paul said he was in a race ( life) for an imperishable “crown” (of life, heaven). Verse 25, Paul says he tries not to sin “ lest when I have preached to others, I myself should become disqualified.( thereby losing the race and the crown). So far we have MOSES and PAUL and GOD testifying that Saved people can be lost spiritually.
—-1 Tim. 1:18- having FAITH and a good conscience, who some have rejected having shipwrecked their faith.
—-1 Cor. 10:12- “Therefore let him who thinks he stands (strong in the faith) take heed lest he FALL. Fall from where? If they are not saved they are already lost, so where did they FALL FROM and where did they FALL TO?!?! PLEASE Answer.
—-2 John 8-9-“Look to yourselves THAT WE DO NOT LOSE the things we worked for ( these are NOT UNBELIEVERS), but that we may receive a full reward….Whoever does NOT ABIDE in the doctrine of Christ HAS NOT GOD.” They have to be “IN” the doctrine of Christ in order to “ABIDE” in it.
—-Roman’s 11:22-“ Toward you goodness, IF you continue in His goodness, OTHERWISE, YOU ALSO WILL BE CUT OFF.” They were SAVED because they were IN GOD’s GOODNESS. You can’t CONTINUE in something if you are not already in it in the first place. But he tells them if they don’t CONTINUE in His goodness, HE WILL CUT THEM OFF. This harmonizes with Revelation 3:10- remain FAITHFUL to the end and He will give you a crown of life. It’s conditional upon FAITHFULNESS.
—-1 Chron. 28:9- David said to Solomon,”If you forsake Him(God), hHe will cast you off forever!” Was Solomon NOT saved? No! Solomon was God’s handpicked King of the Jewish people. Of course he was saved and so was David. Here we have another testimony from King David.
—-Rev. 2:4- Jesus speaking to the CHURCH (saved people), “Repent! Or I will remove your lamp stand.”
—-Hebrews 2:1- “Give heed to the things we have heard, lest we DRIFT AWAY. Paul says “WE” placing himself in the group he is speaking to. Was Paul saved or are you going to say he was never saved? Or do you think he was saved but the people he was talking to were not . Then why put himself in that group of unsaved people? He placed himself as one of the ones who could DRIFT AWAY.
—-Hebrews 4:11- “Be diligent to enter that rest ( heaven) lest anyone FALL according to the same example of DISOBEDIENCE. Fall from where? Fall to where?
—-Hebrews 6:4-6- “For it is impossible for those who were once ENLIGHTENED ( by the gospel), and HAVE TASTED THE HEAVENLY GIFT ( Of salvation) aThey have been saved. “AND HAVE BEEN PARTAKERS OF THE HOLY SPIRIT, AND HAVE TASTED THE GOOD WORD OF GOD, if they FALL AWAY to RENEW THEM AGAIN to repentance.”
—-Hebrews 10:35- Therefore do not CAST AWAY your confidence ( of salvation), which has great reward. For you need to ENDURE, so that AFTER YOU HAVE DONE THE WILL OF GOD, you may receive the promise (of heaven). Read the preceding verses-32-34. These were Christian’s who had suffered persecution because (verse34), because “they knew they had a better and enduring possession for yourselves in heaven.”
—-Hebrews 12:15 “Lest anyone FALL SHORT of the grace of God.” Read who these people are in verse 1.
—-Galations 5:4- “YOU ARE FALLEN FROM GRACE.” Please tell me if God WANTED TO WARN US that we could fall from grace and be lost, how could he have said it any better?
—-2 Peter 3:17- you, BELOVED ( Christian), BEWARE, lest you FALL FROM YOUR OWN STEADFASTNESS—did you get that? These people had been STEADFAST. (Definition: loyal, faithful, devoted firm, unwavering.) being LED AWAY from what? With the error of the wicked.” (You) Grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Wouldn’t you have to be IN GRACE before you could GROW IN GRACE?

As you read this remember that God is looking for, not just sincere hearts, but Honest hearts also. God’s word will not return unto Him void. But it will accomplish what He pleases. Isaiah 55:11

I tell you what I will do, Mr. Beckworth: I will give you the luxury of choosing up to five of any of the passages above that you think make the strongest, iron-clad case for your heresy, and I will refute those. This way you can't accuse me of cherry-picking. Game on?

 

[Rufus]

[QUOTE="Musicmaster, post: 5357749, member: 305060"]To me that's just pure nonsense, because at no time throughout the history of the world was 1/2 of the world's population wiped out as will be the case in the tribulation period, otherwise known as Jacob's 70th heptad. 1/2 of the world's population was also not wiped out after the ascension of Christ, nor at any time within proximity of that event.[/quote]

Do you have chapter and verse for your nonsense?

 

[Magenta]

Please fix the messed up coding... it keeps getting carried over when quoted and it is hard to determine who has said what.

Post 4,333 the closing quote tag needs to be unbolded to make the quote box display properly. ]

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

How odd. I am really surprised that you would call the apostle Peter a person whose “ object of their salvation is themselves or their good works”. You must not be familiar with Acts 8 where he tells Simon the sorcerer to “repent”. Simon who was a new convert having just believed and was baptized—sinned and Peter told him he was going to “PERISH.” A good example of a “saved” person who, unless he repented and prayed for forgiveness was going to be lost! Are you going to tell me that Simon was never saved in the first place? Are you going to tell me that the word “Perish” doesn’t mean “death or destruction? (I looked it up). Are you going to tell me “that’s just your interpretation” and “it doesn’t mean that.” So far that is all I have gotten as answers to the scriptures I have presented.

Just care enough about the issue of eternity to do a word study on the terms "repent and repentance."

BTW, I can share a book with you that has it's theme, eternal life through the person of Jesus Christ. It uses the term for "believe" exactly 100 times.
How many times does it say repent?
Answer: O

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

And I don't unwisely put all my eggs in one basket either. This is no such thing as an inspired translation. Only the original languages in scripture were inspired by the Holy Spirit.

So, do you believe that only the original autographs were worthy of believing since you claim the translations since those and copies are all in error?

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

That happened to me in religion. I went to a place of earth worship, and got put under Law. I got the thought(s) I better stop this and that. So I became a worker =, over a believer. I remained a believer, yet work(s) were leading me to not do.
What did I do, read Romans 7, yes I did and got trapped in that trap of evil. That became a trait in me, that began as a practice to not do, to a habit trying to not do it again and did it again, not wanting to. Then that habit became a characteristic and then a trait. Oh boy,
Stressed out to the max, not ever being good enough, having thought(s) of I got to stop and could not as it got worse over time.
Then I heard and looked it up, God has (past tense) forgiven you by Son Jesus for you. This preacher, I heard asked a ? over the radio (People to people ministries) back then.
Said find me one place in the Bible that any of the disciples asked for more forgiveness from God after the cross of Son as risen?
I found 1 John 1:9, called him up and said 1 John 1:9
The reply I got was to look up 1 John in the Greek, it does not say he will forgive you. It states to have forgiven you. Then I looked to the scriptures, saw in past tense, has forgiven us ll by Son for us. Only one scripture that gets the thought we have to get forgiven all over again, 1 John 1:9. When Ephesians 1:6:7 says we are (past tense) forgiven and accepted in God the beloved.
I began to see this un-forgiveness is not from God it is from people, me included
Therefore I asked God to teach me new and not give any other person the reins. God does that for us all, teaches each person personally first in this love and mercy given us by Son for us, at least me.
Then I was in a new practice to become a new habit, to become a new characteristic to a new trait. As the old traits were winding down, the reverse began and it was not easy to let go of what others say and just simply have a relationship with God personally, who I do not physically see
2 Cor 5:16 tells me, the disciples once knew Christ in the flesh, yet today no more, now in Spirit only, ( 2 Cor 5:17-20) the the realization we are reconciled by Son on that cross once for us all to either believe God or not consciously
No more work for me to do. Now it is God's done work through me by God for me
Luke 21:14-15
Daily settling this within myself, God loves us all and God knows the truth in each of us, so I see not to predict anything I might get thought of, and simply trust God to do what is needed to get done through me, hoping for all others to rest in this mess we each are in on this earth also

Maybe >This< will be a blessing.
Have a good day!
🍵🙂👍

 

[PaulThomson]

I think Simon the Sorcerer was never truly converted. He was a man totally enamored with himself who loved to be in the limelight. He was boastful and prideful and had a very high opinion of himself (Act 8:9) and he greatly coveted people's attention and obviously fed his ego off it (v.10). Besides the things I pointed out earlier, there is another big clue in the text that points to the true condition of his "post-conversion" heart: "He followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw" (v. 13). He didn't follow Philip to learn how to do gospel ministry and thereby actually help and benefit other people. Rather, that Simon was awe-struck by real miracles that Philip performed, as opposed to weaker, demonic signs he performed before people. This is precisely why he wanted to pay for the ability that had been given to Philip. Simon was JEALOUS! He was being outdone by a real McCoy!

Simon reminds me of Jesus' false disciples who urgently and ardently followed him after his miracle of Feeding Five Thousand. But Jesus had their number as well (Jn 6:26-27). They didn't go out of their way to seek him because of who he was but because they perceived they could personally reap benefits from his power. Likewise, Peter, too, read Simon's wicked heart and understood that Simon wasn't really interested in God's great salvation but only in capitalizing on God's power for his personal monetary gain and self-aggrandizement, which is why Peter told Simon to pray and repent, for PERHAPS God would hear him. I strongly suspect that Simon quit following Philip and the other disciples around just as Jesus' false disciples left him (Jn 6:66).

I assume you got some pleasure out of telling us what you think and surmise. But if you won't answer questions put to you it's not a discussion or a dialogue. It's just you bragging.

 

[Musicmaster]

[QUOTE="Musicmaster, post: 5357749, member: 305060"]To me that's just pure nonsense, because at no time throughout the history of the world was 1/2 of the world's population wiped out as will be the case in the tribulation period, otherwise known as Jacob's 70th heptad. 1/2 of the world's population was also not wiped out after the ascension of Christ, nor at any time within proximity of that event.

Do you have chapter and verse for your nonsense?[/QUOTE]

Revelation 6:8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Revelation 9:15 And the four angels were loosed, which were prepared for an hour, and a day, and a month, and a year, for to slay the third part of men.

So, for those who are mathematically challenged, a fourth of 8 Billion is 2 Billion. Then, a third of the remaining 6 Billion is another 2 Billion. So, 2 Billion plus 2 Billion is 4 Billion, which is half of the original 8 Billion.

So, half of mankind will be killed during that 7 years of Jacob's 70th heptad.

No nonsense to any of that at all.

MM

 

[Musicmaster]

Paul had this to say about those who deny or ignore the mystery revealed through him:

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Israel was NOT replaced by the Church, but rather was blinded in part until the Lord is prepared to once again start up His prophetic program with them in the tribulation.

MM