Why isnt the holocaust in the bible

[eternally-gratefull]

come on EG.
i would never suggest such a thing.
He kept and will keep all His Promises.

yet you do.

Jesus promised you eternal life. Does the fact he gave it to you already mean he aleady fulfilled his promise? and if this is true, what is keeping him from taking that eternal life back because you sinned and did not deserve it? This is what your saying God did with Isreal and her ownership of the land through Abraham.

if all this madness in the world today is over a sliver of Land in the Middle East with no redemptive value for anyone, maybe we need to rethink the whole thing.

Thats is the problem. Your right it has no redemptive value. IT NEVER DID. It did not when God gave the land to abraham, it did not when he took his people out of egeypt and gave them their land. it did nto when they were removed by syria and babylon because of her sin. it did not when Daniel prayed for and about it at the end of the first sabaath rest for the land (daniel 9) It did not when the jews were given the command to rebuild the city. It did not for the 69 weeks which occured from that day forward. it did not in jesus day, it does not today., So your argument makes no sense.

What does it concern? God. who can see into the future and prophesy events which will literally take place. Our God, the one true God. who else can prophesy 500 years before it happens that messiah will enter jerusalem on the day the 69th week ended. and that he would die one week later?

thats is what it is all about. NOT SALVATION. you keep making it a salvic event when it NEVER WAS ONE.

You think I could care less about who is in Israel today? I only care about their eternity. and leading them to Christ. But other than that, I don;t care..

I just know what God says will happen. I do care about that. Because it is the one thing God has that no other God has. HE CAN ACCURATELY PREDICT WORLD EVENTS TO THE DAY.

so the jews get Jerusalem but perish in their sins.
nah...

The are not in jerusalem because of their sins. Thus since you can;t get this right. your whole basis of refuting what I believe is in error.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

pretend there's no future unfinished business just for a few minutes. you say it's just a Land Promise. put that aside for just a moment.
just suspend your belief that the 70th week was put on hold, the Plan B was implemented (Church Age), then soon in the future the 70th week kicks in.

just pretend for a few minutes that doesn't exist and never entered your mind.

read this as if it actually took place in history, for Daniel's people, to fulfill the promises made to the fathers.
don't bother with left over days or anything.

just look at the content of it.
the things that were said to happen.
the things Daniel was told were going to happen future to him....about his people, and concerning the Messiah.
we know Jesus came and did everything needed to make reconciliation....everything.
keep in mind just the rough and historical fact that Jerusalem was destroyed in 70AD by Titus.


Daniel 9
24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

is there anything missing?
does that cover historical fact?

was any of that interrupted just so israel could live in Palestine until Jesus comes in Judgment?

you believe eventually this earth will be destroyed and a new earth (eternity) will happen, right?
so the dirt that now is, isn't eternal at all.

lol.. Your line of thinking is flawed.

does it cover historical fact? No
Does it have to do with isreal being saved eternally? no, never did.

Does the future jerusalem have to do with this and make up for the problem of my interpretation no.

Your sealed with the hs of promise until when? the day we enter the new jerusalem.

does that mean that eternal life is covered up until that time? yes.

is the land of canaan still around today? yes,

is there a new jersualem today? no

thus, just like your seal last eternally (until the day of redemption when you are given a new body free of sin)the promise still stands as long as their is a land of canaan. (when it is destroyed and God makes a new jerusalem)

if God took away this eternal promise to isreal because they did not deserve it. Nothing is stopping him from taking our eternal life away before we are given our new bodies because we do not deserve it.

 

[zone]

The are not in jerusalem because of their sins. Thus since you can;t get this right. your whole basis of refuting what I believe is in error.

well, if they are still sinning, and are now in the Land how does your theory of why Daniel 9 isn't fulfilled make any sense?
explain it to me.

if the work of Christ wasn't applied to them because they were still sinning when He came, how does it apply to you?

does anyone's unbelief mean Daniel 9 wasn't fulfilled?
no...it just means they don't believe it.

 

[zone]

if God took away this eternal promise to isreal because they did not deserve it. Nothing is stopping him from taking our eternal life away before we are given our new bodies because we do not deserve it.

please show me the passages which say Eternal Land promise unconnected with anything else EG.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

ya know what would be awsome. You told me to forget my view.

lets do this. lets forget what Rome and Luther says (where you get your belief) , lets forget what darby and scofield. says (where y uclaim I get my belief) , and lets just look at the word and see what it says.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

please show me the passages which say Eternal Land promise unconnected with anything else EG.

so your denying this land promise ever existed?

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then He said to Abram: “Know certainly that your descendants will be strangers in a land that is not theirs, and will serve them, and they will afflict them four hundred years. [SUP]14 [/SUP]And also the nation whom they serve I will judge; afterward they shall come out with great possessions. [SUP]15 [/SUP]Now as for you, you shall go to your fathers in peace; you shall be buried at a good old age. [SUP]16 [/SUP]But in the fourth generation they shall return here, for the iniquity of the Amorites is not yet complete.” [SUP]17 [/SUP]And it came to pass, when the sun went down and it was dark, that behold, there appeared a smoking oven and a burning torch that passed between those pieces. [SUP]18 [/SUP]On the same day the Lord made a covenant with Abram, saying:
“To your descendants I have given this land, from the river of Egypt to the great river, the River Euphrates— [SUP]19 [/SUP]the Kenites, the Kenezzites, the Kadmonites, [SUP]20 [/SUP]the Hittites, the Perizzites, the Rephaim, [SUP]21 [/SUP]the Amorites, the Canaanites, the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.”

[SUP]7 [/SUP]And I will establish My covenant between Me and you and your descendants after you in their generations, for an EVERLASTING covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you. [SUP]8 [/SUP]Also I give to you and your descendants after you the land in which you are a stranger, all the land of Canaan, as an EVERLASTING possession; and I will be their God.”

so your saying this covenant is no longer valid? That this is the new jerusalem??

sorry.. God said it was everlasting. meaning it did not depend on what the people did. whether they sinned or not does not matter, God gave it to them, like he gave us eternal life.

If God reniged on his promise to them,k he certainly can renig on his promise to us!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

well, if they are still sinning, and are now in the Land how does your theory of why Daniel 9 isn't fulfilled make any sense?
explain it to me.

Nope. because they still do not own all the land. they still have no peace. they still have no king, they still are not praising God. they still have not repented. And they still do not own jerusalem (it is still trampled by the gentiles. in fact a gentile temple sits on the mount of God.)

all these things must be removed before daniel 9 and the OT prophesies concerning the time are fulfilled.

if the work of Christ wasn't applied to them because they were still sinning when He came, how does it apply to you?

It never applied to me. I am not a descendant of Abraham Issac and jacob. the land was not given to ALL abrahams descendents only one family. Jacob.

does anyone's unbelief mean Daniel 9 wasn't fulfilled?
no...it just means they don't believe it.

yeah it does. Because it means the end of the sin of the nation and the city has not yet been fulfilled.

 

[JaumeJ]

There is a lot to learn from the Word, the Holy Scriptures. Aside from our Savior, no man has learned or has known all therein. I have studied It for almost half a century, and my understanding is yet very limited.
Times, moments and events are revealed to us, but we cannot sieze any understanding or interpretation. I have argued here in the forum, but it is very tiring. Come time for any particular event to come about, Yahweh, God, will most likely reveal it to all who believe Him.
As for the Book, Daniel, I always read it in tandem with Revelation, and many times with Zecharias. I know the words, but like Daniel, I do not understand precisely what they are saying. So, because Daniel was told they are for a generation to come to understand, so I wait. Waiting on the Lord is awesome, and we are told that it is also a blessing.

 

[zone]

Nope. because they still do not own all the land. they still have no peace. they still have no king, they still are not praising God. they still have not repented.

and this means what?
they're lost sinners who reject Jesus.
what's that got to do with anything?

what own the land? huh?
they have no peace because they rejected the Prince of Peace.
do you have peace? i do.

they have no King because they don't want Jesus for their King. so?
no king but caesar. and?

is Jesus King? yes.

uh...they think they are praising God. Jesus said anyone who doesn't know Him doesn't know the Father.
john said anyone who denies Jesus came in the flesh is antichrist.
and?

does God owe them something still? how many Covenants are in place?
does He owe us anything?

they have not repented because they don't like Jesus.
so? what does that have to do with Daniel 9?
they don't believe in Jesus.
no big mystery.

lots of people don't.

a remnant believed. just like God said.
and jews today get saved the same way anyone else does.
The Gospel.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

There is a lot to learn from the Word, the Holy Scriptures. Aside from our Savior, no man has learned or has known all therein. I have studied It for almost half a century, and my understanding is yet very limited.
Times, moments and events are revealed to us, but we cannot sieze any understanding or interpretation. I have argued here in the forum, but it is very tiring. Come time for any particular event to come about, Yahweh, God, will most likely reveal it to all who believe Him.
As for the Book, Daniel, I always read it in tandem with Revelation, and many times with Zecharias. I know the words, but like Daniel, I do not understand precisely what they are saying. So, because Daniel was told they are for a generation to come to understand, so I wait. Waiting on the Lord is awesome, and we are told that it is also a blessing.

I would agree. I do not know how exactly the events will take place. Any more than the people in daniels time on beyond know how the events of the messiah would take place. or the city being destroyed. I can't know. I can;t just know they will. And not question God about how they will take place. just trust him that they will

 

[eternally-gratefull]

and this means what?
they're lost sinners who reject Jesus.
what's that got to do with anything?

Your joking right?

The end of ALL the prophesies concerning this time, state when they are fulfilled. Isreal (the people ) will repent of her sin. She will serve her God. She will no longer sin, and worship her idols (I did happen to show you this a few posts back. Odd you did not comment on it) This what I said has everything to do with it.

what own the land? huh?
they have no peace because they rejected the Prince of Peace.
do you have peace? i do.

Yep. and according to the things given moses. As long as they reject God and do not follow his commands, and turn to idols. they will be removed from their land, and it will lie in ruins.. Still fulfilled today.

they have no King because they don't want Jesus for their King. so?
no king but caesar. and?

is Jesus King? yes.

Now your getting ridiculous. (like you keep telling me) You keep straying from the point and putting this extra stuff in..

[SUP]13 [/SUP]Then you shall know that I am the Lord, when I have opened your graves, O My people, and brought you up from your graves. [SUP]14 [/SUP]I will put My Spirit in you, and you shall live, and I will place you in your own land. Then you shall know that I, the Lord, have spoken it and performed it,” says the Lord.’”

[SUP]21 [/SUP]“Then say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the children of Israel from among the nations, wherever they have gone, and will gather them from every side and bring them into their own land; [SUP]22 [/SUP]and I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king over them all; they shall no longer be two nations, nor shall they ever be divided into two kingdoms again. [SUP]

23 [/SUP]They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols, nor with their detestable things, nor with any of their transgressions; but I will deliver them from all their dwelling places in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them. Then they shall be My people, and I will be their God.

your saying all of this has been fulfilled concerning the nation of Isreal?


Not even paul agrees with you. For as he says, in that day ALL ISREAL WILL BE SAVED. why? because they are in sin? because they still reject their messiah? No. BECAUSE THEY HAVE REPENTED!

uh...they think they are praising God. Jesus said anyone who doesn't know Him doesn't know the Father.
john said anyone who denies Jesus came in the flesh is antichrist.
and?

And? what does this have to do with your point? it proves my point as to why they do not occupy the land they own. And why..

does God owe them something still? how many Covenants are in place?

Um two. The new covenant (concerning salvation) and the land covenant (which will be active as long as the land of canaan remains.

God never claimed to have done away with the abrahamic covenant. he claimed he did away with the mosaic covenant.

does He owe us anything?

Has nothing to do with us. Why you keep bringing this up boggles my mind, for it NEVER HAD ANYTHING TO DO WITH US.

they have not repented because they don't like Jesus.
so? what does that have to do with Daniel 9?
they don't believe in Jesus.
no big mystery.

The mystery is, (and it is not a mystery) that although today, because they have rejected Jesus, they are still to be beloved because of the promises made and confirmed by God to Abraham issac and jacob. For Gods promises are irrevocable. thus in that day, ALL ISREAL WILL BE SAVED. (not not spiritual isreal. Physical Isreal)

lots of people don't.

a remnant believed. just like God said.
and jews today get saved the same way anyone else does.
The Gospel.

God did not claim in this day a remnant would believe, he claimed ALL ISREAL WOULD BE SAVED. A remnant is part. not all.

 

[doulos]

oh stop ellis.

Oh stop zone!

Don’t you have anything better to do? Or is it your life’s goal to follow Therapon around badgering him just because you disagree with the view he espouses? I don’t think anyone has a problem with you being in disagreement with Therapon, but I do see the lack of respect and open hostility that you show as a hindrance to productive discussion! I don’t remember Therapon ever badgering or being hostile to you (or others) on this or any other forum, but yet you continue to behave in an uncivilized manner. Are you and Therapon such good friends that you are on a first name basis? If not then why don’t you show a little respect and use his chosen user name? If you’re so sure that the view he espouses is in error then why not use Scripture and history to prove it? When I see your rude remarks and sarcasm in this thread (and other threads) about his support of the Jews or his magical 70[SUP]th[/SUP] week(as you call it) etc…. that disrupt and derail the discussion, I can’t help but wonder why you don’t use Scripture and history to prove your point instead of resorting to attacking the messenger. Wouldn’t everybody be better served by you proving your point with Scripture and history, instead of just seeing you badger someone just because you disagree with them? How does your badgering and continued use of conspiracy theories that villanize the Jews disprove Therapon’s posts? They don’t, your tactics only serve to discredit you!

Have you taken the time to check out Dr David Lurie’s (a noted scholar on Hebrew language and Jewish customs) work on the translation of the original words that have been translated as a week in the sentences used in Dan9? Did you realize that in the original language the word translated as a singular week in the week you call the 70[SUP]th[/SUP] week is not a singular week but instead a plural meaning more then one? Wasn’t God’s Covenant with the Jews an everlasting Covenant? For it to be an everlasting Covenant wouldn’t that require that at least one party on each side of that Covenant to be still honoring and abiding by that covenant?. How could any of the Jews do that if they recognized the Gospel? Could it be, that is why some of the Jews were given a spirit of slumber so that when they were provoked to jealousy they would turn back to the Lord through the only Scriptures they are allowed to see (the Old Covenant/Testament because they have been given a spirit of slumber until the fulness of the Gentiles comes in see Rom11:25)?
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. John3:3 How do you explain those that are elect for their fathers sake while still being an enemy of the Gospel? Obviously an enemy of the Gospel is not a Christian, yet Scripture still says they are elect!:3 tells us that one must be born again to enter the kingdom of heaven. Throughout the entire history of the world the only people born again have either been an Old Testament saint or a New Testament saint, remember we both drink from the same Rock and that Rock is Christ!

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.
Col 4:6 Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man.


Wouldn’t it be nice if we discussed our studies in grace, seasoned with salt, to help all of us grow in our understanding so that we can rightly divide the word?

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

well this has turned into an argument about land promises and covenants and so on...how come nobody ever wants to discuss the actual -chronology- of daniel 9?

your view can make perfect theological sense...but if the math doesn't work then it is no good...

it is like watching people argue about what color the drapes need to be in the house they are building...meanwhile i look at the bank account and they can't afford to build a house at all...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

well this has turned into an argument about land promises and covenants and so on...how come nobody ever wants to discuss the actual -chronology- of daniel 9?

your view can make perfect theological sense...but if the math doesn't work then it is no good...

it is like watching people argue about what color the drapes need to be in the house they are building...meanwhile i look at the bank account and they can't afford to build a house at all...

I thought we were trying to do this last night. before everyone gave up..lol

 

[zone]

Oh stop zone!

Don’t you have anything better to do? Or is it your life’s goal to follow Therapon around badgering him just because you disagree with the view he espouses? I don’t think anyone has a problem with you being in disagreement with Therapon, but I do see the lack of respect and open hostility that you show as a hindrance to productive discussion! I don’t remember Therapon ever badgering or being hostile to you (or others) on this or any other forum, but yet you continue to behave in an uncivilized manner. Are you and Therapon such good friends that you are on a first name basis? If not then why don’t you show a little respect and use his chosen user name? If you’re so sure that the view he espouses is in error then why not use Scripture and history to prove it?

done it already.
a long time ago.

you could too...if you care.
if you are of the magical 70th week camp, go for it.
if you are of the arab terrorists did 9-11 and the D.O.R. is the A.O.D., great!
discuss.

don't let me stop you.

 

[zone]

well this has turned into an argument about land promises and covenants and so on...how come nobody ever wants to discuss the actual -chronology- of daniel 9?

this is my view.

[the only qualifications i would make are that representatives of all 12 tribes came out of captivity and returned to the Land.
i documented this elsewhere in this thread; and i don't know one way or the other if continuing sacrifices were the A.O.D.; and don't know for certain which event in Acts marked the end of the 70th week (i posted the possibilities elsewhere) - doesn't matter to me....the historicist view does].



here's someone else's drafting of the timeline i subscribe to:



Seventy Weeks of the Prophet Daniel
Daniel 9:20-27

Prophetic scale: 1 day equals 1 year "I have appointed thee each day for a year" Ezekiel 4:6

Each prophetic week equals 7 years

This was God's timeline for dealing with the Judah nation (not Israel of the Dispersion). These 70 weeks were the second time period of 490 years in which God dealt with the Judah nation. The first time resulted in a 70 year captivity, but the second period resulted in utter desolation. II Chronicles 36:14-21, Matthew 23:37-38

As part of the Historicist interpretation of prophecy, the point of view expressed on this chart was believed and taught by many of the Protestant Reformers and Bible scholars dating back many centuries. Many stalwarts of the Christian faith such as John Wycliffe, John Knox, William Tyndale, John Calvin, Martin Luther, John Huss, Charles Spurgeon, John and Charles Wesley and Jonathan Edwards were strong proponents of the Historicist view and many suffered in defense of their belief. This interpretation stands in sharp contrast to the modern fallacious teaching of Futurism.


457 B.C. 4 B.C. 27 A.D. 31 A.D. 34 A.D. 70 A.D.

Commandment to restore and build Jerusalem
Daniel 9:25

Ezra 7:11-13 Birth of Jesus
Galatians 4:4 Baptism of Jesus in Jordan 30 years old
Luke 3:22-23 "The time is fulfilled"
Mark 1:14 "Shall Messiah be cut off"
Daniel 9:26 Death of Stephen
Acts 7:51-59 Destruction of Jerusalem
Matthew 23:37-24:2 Gospel Expansion
Acts 8:5 Philip was now free to preach in Samaria
Acts 13:46 Paul goes to the "Gentiles"

The Messianic Purpose
Daniel 9:24

To finish the transgression Isaiah 53:5; Hebrews 10:12-14
To make an end of sins Hebrews 9:26
To make reconciliation for iniquity Rom. 5:10; Heb. 10:17
To bring in everlasting righteousness II Cor. 5:21
To seal up the vision and prophecy Matthew 5:17
To anoint the Most Holy Luke 4:18; Acts 10:38

The prophecy concerning the time measure of the 70 weeks or 490 years is completely fulfilled and is a matter of Biblical historical record.

The Babylonian Captivity
In reading the Biblical accounts of the history of the Southern Kingdom of Judah, it is obvious that they became a very sinful and rebellious people toward the Lord their God. For 490 years from the time of their early history through the reign of King Zedekiah they rebelled against the laws of God and perverted their religion and culture by incorporating heathen practices into every area of their national life. They disregarded the law of the Sabbath, so therefore God based the length of their captivity upon the number of years of their violation. The 490 years of violation divided by every 7th year equals 70 years of captivity. II Chronicles 36:14-21; Jeremiah 25:11

The 490 Years of 70 Weeks
457 B.C. - 34 A.D.

The first sixty-nine weeks of this time measure (Daniel 9:25) contained an initial 'seven week' or 49 year period (457 B.C. to 408 B.C.). This period was a time of restoration and repairing of the walls and streets of the city of Jerusalem under the supervision of Ezra and Nehemiah (Nehemiah 2:8-17; 4:17). These were 'troublous times' because of extreme opposition from enemy neighbors (Nehemiah 4:7).

The sixty-two week period or 434 years extended from 408 B.C. to 27A.D. at the time of Jesus' water baptism by John the Baptist in the River Jordan. This completed the first sixty-nine weeks of the prophecy which was a period of 483 years.

After the sixty-two weeks or "in the midst of" the 70th week Messiah was cut off and officially "caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease" (Daniel 9:26-27). This was none other than the crucifixion of Jesus when he 'confirmed' or ratified the new Covenant spoken of in Jeremiah 31:31-33; Hebrews 8:8-13; Matthew 26:27-28; Romans 15:8. This took place in 31 A.D. The stoning of Stephen three and a half years later ended the period of the 70th week.

Jewish Rejection of Jesus the Messiah
In spite of the many witnesses that Jesus had concerning Himself as proof of His Deity, the Jewish leaders refused to accept Him as the Promised Messiah. He therefore uttered numerous statements of divine rejection which resulted in severe judgment upon the Jewish people until now. At the trial of Jesus they themselves said, "His blood be on us and our children" (Matthew 27:25).

Zechariah 11:12-13 Matthew 27:1-44
Matthew 27:62-66 Mark 12:1-12
Luke 19:11-14; 41:48
John 15:22-25
(see Tracts #16 & 17)

Jesus' Prophecies of the Destruction of Jerusalem
The destruction of Jerusalem was a result of the Jewish rejection of Jesus Christ and His substitutionary death in fulfillment of the Old Testament law of sacrifice. The Jewish continuation of animal sacrifice after Calvary was therefore the "abomination of desolation" that resulted in the utter destruction of Jerusalem by the Roman Prince Titus in 70 A.D. (Daniel 9:26).

Matthew 24:1-28; 21:17-22
Luke 21:5-33; 23:27-31
Luke 19:41-44

 

[doulos]

done it already.
a long time ago.

Then why not do it again or at least provide a link to where you did?
Matt22:39And the secondislike unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself
Wouldn't is show more love to everyone to use Scvripture and history to prove your point?

you could too...if you care.

No I can't! When I first heard about this line of reasoning close to thirty years ago I spent massive amounts of time trying, only to discover that most of what I had been taught about Bible prophecy was in error. I did suceed at wasting a bunch of money on postage wrting to scholars to find out that Therapon is correct and that the week everyone calls a singular week is improplerly translated and that it should be weeks, therefore Therapons belief that it is a jubilee week and the 69 weeks occur in that Jubilee week is the only one (that I have found to date) that makes sense. In addition almost all of the Hebrew and Jewish scholar I wrote, said that time, times and a half is a Jewish idiom that means 2 1/2 times not 3 1/2 yet most refuse to accept this simply because it doesn't fit their doctrines. As for me I am glad I took the time to do that study. It was truly a blessing for me. You see at the time I wasn't even a Christian and the multitude of futurists arguments with all their variations pre, mid post trib etc... (which I see repeated over and over again here) were so full of holes that it made Christians appear to a nonbeliever as a bunch of supersticous clowns. After all if they can't agre on what the Scripturess mean why would anyone listen to them? The truth of this view made me realize the Scriptures were inspired by God, which resulted in some serious soul searching about my own life. A journey that has truly been a blessing! You see when we use fulfilled prophecy to demonstrate the truth of the Scriptures we are then utilizing a powerful tool for witnessing to the lost. On the otherhand when when people use guesswork theology and prophecy to attempt to tell the future it only divides the believers and make them look like supersticous clowns to the nonbeliever.

"The folly of interpreters has been to foretell times and things by this prophecy [Revelation], as if God designed to make them prophets. By this rashness they have not only exposed themselves, but brought the prophecy also into contempt. The design of God was much otherwise. He gave this and the prophecies of the Old Testament, not to gratify men's curiosities by enabling them to foreknow things, but that after they were fulfilled they might be interpreted by the event, and his own providence, not the interpreters', be then manifested thereby to the world. For the event of things predicted many ages before will then be a convincing argument that the world is governed by Providence." - Sir Isaac Newton

“Those things of God which are now dark and obscure will hereafter be made clear, and easy to be understood. Truth is the daughter of time. Scripture prophecies will be expounded by the accomplishment of them; therefore they are given, and for that expectation they are reserved. Therefore they are told us before, that, when they do come to pass, we may believe”. - Matthew Henry


Go ahead continue badgering people if you must I just question how much love that shows. On the other hand showing the error with grace and seasoned with salt shows love!

 

[Shilo]

can you show it to me without recycling or swiping fulfilled prophecies?
not saying it isn't in there (i actually believe it is)....i want to see what you think.

We do not look atthings the same way but here is some of what I believe

2 Timothy 3 yes, and all who desire to live godly in ChristJesus will suffer persecution. [SUP]13 [/SUP]But evil men and impostors willgrow worse and worse, deceiving and being deceived. [SUP]14 [/SUP]But you mustcontinue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing fromwhom you have learned them,
Daniel 12:10 Many will be purified, made spotless andrefined, but the wicked will continue to be wicked. None of the wicked willunderstand, but those who are wise will understand
Zechariah 13:9 This third I will bring into the fire;I will refine them like silver and test them like gold. They will call on myname and I will answer them; I will say, 'They are my people,' and they willsay, 'The LORD is our God
Revelation 18:4 Then I heard another voice fromheaven say: "Come out of her, my people, so that you will not share in hersins, so that you will not receive any of her plagues;
Isaiah 48:20 Leave Babylon, flee from the Babylonians!Announce this with shouts of joy and proclaim it. Send it out to the ends ofthe earth; say, "The LORD has redeemed his servant Jacob."
Jeremiah 51:6 "Flee from Babylon! Run for yourlives! Do not be destroyed because of her sins. It is time for the LORD'svengeance; he will pay her what she deserves.
Jeremiah 51:9 "'We would have healed Babylon, but shecannot be healed; let us leave her and each go to his own land, for herjudgment reaches to the skies, it rises as high as the clouds.'
Jeremiah 51:45 "Come out of her, my people! Run for yourlives! Run from the fierce anger of the LORD.
2 Corinthians 6:17 "Therefore come out from them and beseparate, says the Lord. Touch no unclean thing, and I will receive you."
Daniel 9:24 Seventy 'sevens' are decreed for yourpeople and your holy city = not fulfilled yet
finish transgression,= People are still in rebellion to the LORD
to put an end to sin=There is still sin on the earth.
to atone for wickedness, = People pay for wickedness whohave not turned to the LORD
to bring ineverlasting righteousness = Yeshua’s rule no more sin
to seal up vision and prophecy = all Prophecy fulfilled
To anoint the most holy = Priest anointing put on Yeshua

 

[RachelBibleStudent]

The 490 Years of 70 Weeks
457 B.C. - 34 A.D.

The first sixty-nine weeks of this time measure (Daniel 9:25) contained an initial 'seven week' or 49 year period (457 B.C. to 408 B.C.). This period was a time of restoration and repairing of the walls and streets of the city of Jerusalem under the supervision of Ezra and Nehemiah (Nehemiah 2:8-17; 4:17). These were 'troublous times' because of extreme opposition from enemy neighbors (Nehemiah 4:7).

The sixty-two week period or 434 years extended from 408 B.C. to 27A.D. at the time of Jesus' water baptism by John the Baptist in the River Jordan. This completed the first sixty-nine weeks of the prophecy which was a period of 483 years.

After the sixty-two weeks or "in the midst of" the 70th week Messiah was cut off and officially "caused the sacrifice and oblation to cease" (Daniel 9:26-27). This was none other than the crucifixion of Jesus when he 'confirmed' or ratified the new Covenant spoken of in Jeremiah 31:31-33; Hebrews 8:8-13; Matthew 26:27-28; Romans 15:8. This took place in 31 A.D. The stoning of Stephen three and a half years later ended the period of the 70th week.

well if you start at the arrival of ezra in jerusalem in 457 BC then the chronology works...however i cannot find any reference to a command to rebuild jerusalem in conjunction with ezra's arrival...the temple was rebuilt by zerubbabel and the walls were rebuilt by nehemiah...but i can't find any evidence of ezra undertaking any building projects...

i am also not sure about having the seventieth week end with the martyrdom of stephen...it doesn't help matters that there are several opinions on when stephen was martyred...from within weeks after pentecost in AD 30 to as late as AD 37...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

well if you start at the arrival of ezra in jerusalem in 457 BC then the chronology works...however i cannot find any reference to a command to rebuild jerusalem in conjunction with ezra's arrival...the temple was rebuilt by zerubbabel and the walls were rebuilt by nehemiah...but i can't find any evidence of ezra undertaking any building projects...

i am also not sure about having the seventieth week end with the martyrdom of stephen...it doesn't help matters that there are several opinions on when stephen was martyred...from within weeks after pentecost in AD 30 to as late as AD 37...

In both those accounts. the command was given only to rebuild the temple. not the city, in fact in one of those acocunts they were commanded to stop building because they were trying to rebuild the city also.

Neh 2:
2 And it came to pass in the month of Nisan, in the twentieth year of King Artaxerxes,

[SUP]4 [/SUP]Then the king said to me, “What do you request?”
So I prayed to the God of heaven. [SUP]5 [/SUP]And I said to the king, “If it pleases the king, and if your servant has found favor in your sight, I ask that you send me to Judah, to the city of my fathers’ tombs, that I may rebuild it.”


[SUP]7 [/SUP]Furthermore I said to the king, “If it pleases the king, let letters be given to me for the governors of the region beyond the River,[SUP][a][/SUP] that they must permit me to pass through till I come to Judah, [SUP]8 [/SUP]and a letter to Asaph the keeper of the king’s forest, that he must give me timber to make beams for the gates of the citadel which pertains to the temple,[SUP][b][/SUP] for the city wall, and for the house that I will occupy.” And the king granted them to me according to the good hand of my God upon me.

These letters were the decree sent by Artaxes to allow the ciry to be rebuilt.