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who cares if israel was still sinning.
it's about Jesus making full propitiation.
The Cross. sins blotted out for whoever received Him.
those who didn't perished in their sins.
who cares if the 40 years isnt mentioned specifically in Daniel.
40 is a number of testing/probation.
everybody knows titus came just under 40 years after.
abrahams' covenant was Jesus and eternal life.
it's about Jesus making full propitiation.
The Cross. sins blotted out for whoever received Him.
those who didn't perished in their sins.
who cares if the 40 years isnt mentioned specifically in Daniel.
40 is a number of testing/probation.
everybody knows titus came just under 40 years after.
abrahams' covenant was Jesus and eternal life.
E
exactly. That is why the view that the 70 weeks were fulfilled with Christ does not fit. which leaves us with 2 options.
1. The 70th week is not a literal week. but a symbolic week which last for a number of years.
2. There must be a gap imposed between the end of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th week.
Again, remember, When Christ entered the city, He said all things have been hidden from Isreal. He himself put and end to the 70 weeks right there. There would be no end of sin to the city and temple, which he said would be destroyed, no stone would be left.
If satan knew there was a gap. That Jesus came to die. He never would have killed Christ, he would have stopped itl. because he would have understood what Christ came to do. Not to be king. but to first be the suffering servant. The gap was intentional. Not only for us, but more importantly, to hide the truth from satan. Thats why from the OT perspective alone, you can't see it unless you really look at it.
1. The 70th week is not a literal week. but a symbolic week which last for a number of years.
2. There must be a gap imposed between the end of the 69th week and the beginning of the 70th week.
Again, remember, When Christ entered the city, He said all things have been hidden from Isreal. He himself put and end to the 70 weeks right there. There would be no end of sin to the city and temple, which he said would be destroyed, no stone would be left.
If satan knew there was a gap. That Jesus came to die. He never would have killed Christ, he would have stopped itl. because he would have understood what Christ came to do. Not to be king. but to first be the suffering servant. The gap was intentional. Not only for us, but more importantly, to hide the truth from satan. Thats why from the OT perspective alone, you can't see it unless you really look at it.
E
No it was not. Daniel was not praying for that. Thus you can not add that into the interpretion. The prophesy was in answer to daniels prayer. Since daniel was not praying about that,k You can not add that to the interpretation.
You should care. because it would be part of prophesy. Since it is not told they would have a probation period. your adding to the word of God. We donl;t add our own interpretaion, then say who cares.
Wow. then God took the people out of egypt. led them into the wilderness for 40 years. anbd then led them all to the new jerusalem. and every person born a blood relative of Isreal thus is saved.
Do you see what your belief states? If Abrahams covenant of the land concerned ONLy heaven, then God made a mistake by giving a sinful people this land here on earth 500 years after he gave the promise to abraham. You can;t have it both ways zone!
E
If gabriel wanted us to know messiah got cut off in the middle of the 70th week. he would not have told us at the end of 69 weeks.
Not after the 69th week would not be the middle of the 70th. It would be immediately following the 69th week. which it did occure. exactly 1 literal week of days after. History proves this.
E
lol, I hate to point this out to you zone. But your hate against all forms of dispensationalism is tantamount to us hating the gospel of grace. Since people have twisted dispensationalism to a perverted evil things, according to you we should not believe any of it.
Well since people pervert the gospel of grace to an evil things, we better not believe any of it either!!
Well since people pervert the gospel of grace to an evil things, we better not believe any of it either!!
E
i am done with this too...every time i try to figure out the chronology of the seventy weeks i end up getting confused and giving up... 
I also still hope you look at my daniel 4 beast thing.
E
Christs finished work is for the whole world. Not just Isreal. It was never for just Isreal. and it is NOT what daniel was praying for. So yes, your adding an interpretation which does not fit context. The only way your context fits is if daniel was praying for Christ to come to take the sin of his people.
I am not brushing anything up. And here you go again. I know you forgave me, But you just proves why I said what I said.
A
why can there not be a 40 year gap?
the 70 weeks were over...with one detail left
why is a few thousand year gap more conforting even tho there is no biblical explaination.
Eg as i said before Daniels vision does not!!! have to fit in with his prayer. There is no rule
God submits to the prophets.
Im curious what you think this means: " even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."dan 9:27b
consummation?
determined?
the 70 weeks were over...with one detail left
why is a few thousand year gap more conforting even tho there is no biblical explaination.
Eg as i said before Daniels vision does not!!! have to fit in with his prayer. There is no rule
God submits to the prophets.
Im curious what you think this means: " even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."dan 9:27b
consummation?
determined?
E
more importantly. why is there a 40 year gap? Secondly. if there is a 40 year gap. why would it matter how long the gap was?
[SUP]0 [/SUP]Now while I was speaking, praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the Lord my God for the holy mountain of my God, [SUP]21 [/SUP]yes, while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, reached me about the time of the evening offering. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, “O Daniel, I have now come forth to give you skill to understand. [SUP]23 [/SUP]At the beginning of your supplications the command went out, and I have come to tell you, for you are greatly beloved; therefore consider the matter, and understand the vision:
Gabriel came to Give daniel the answer to his prayer. because God loved daniel.. sorry.. God did not come and trick daniel by telling him something he did nto ask. he would not do this.
It means the things which are determined are completed. namely the 4th and final beast is destroyed, and Christ returns. All of daniels prophesied go hand in hand, Jesus showed this in matt 24. when he mentioned the abomination, followed by the great tribulation, ending by his return in the clouds.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[SUP][c][/SUP] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), [SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. [SUP]19 [/SUP]But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! [SUP]20 [/SUP]And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“ Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
It is all there for everyone to see. As zone likes to say, It is totally obvious
[SUP]0 [/SUP]Now while I was speaking, praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel, and presenting my supplication before the Lord my God for the holy mountain of my God, [SUP]21 [/SUP]yes, while I was speaking in prayer, the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, reached me about the time of the evening offering. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And he informed me, and talked with me, and said, “O Daniel, I have now come forth to give you skill to understand. [SUP]23 [/SUP]At the beginning of your supplications the command went out, and I have come to tell you, for you are greatly beloved; therefore consider the matter, and understand the vision:
Gabriel came to Give daniel the answer to his prayer. because God loved daniel.. sorry.. God did not come and trick daniel by telling him something he did nto ask. he would not do this.
It means the things which are determined are completed. namely the 4th and final beast is destroyed, and Christ returns. All of daniels prophesied go hand in hand, Jesus showed this in matt 24. when he mentioned the abomination, followed by the great tribulation, ending by his return in the clouds.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[SUP][c][/SUP] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), [SUP]16 [/SUP]“then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. [SUP]17 [/SUP]Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. [SUP]18 [/SUP]And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. [SUP]19 [/SUP]But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! [SUP]20 [/SUP]And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. [SUP]21 [/SUP]For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. [SUP]22 [/SUP]And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]“ Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. [SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
It is all there for everyone to see. As zone likes to say, It is totally obvious
i know what Daniel was praying for.
what does that have to do with the message brought by the angel?
did the angel or did he not tell Daniel there were 70 weeks determined for the israelites and jerusalem?
is the list of things that would be accomplished in the 70 weeks the same as what Jesus accomplished on Calvary?
if some reject it, does that mean it didn't happen?
what does that have to do with the message brought by the angel?
did the angel or did he not tell Daniel there were 70 weeks determined for the israelites and jerusalem?
is the list of things that would be accomplished in the 70 weeks the same as what Jesus accomplished on Calvary?
if some reject it, does that mean it didn't happen?
The Siege of Jerusalem in the year 70 was the decisive event of the First Jewish-Roman War. The Roman army, led by the future Emperor Titus, with Tiberius Julius Alexander as his second-in-command, besieged and conquered the city of Jerusalem, which had been occupied by its Jewish defenders in 66.
The siege ended with the sacking of the city and the destruction of its famous Second Temple. The destruction of both the first and second temples is still mourned annually as the Jewish fast Tisha B'Av. The Arch of Titus, celebrating the Roman sack of Jerusalem and the Temple, still stands in Rome.
Josephus claims that 1,100,000 people were killed during the siege, of which a majority were Jewish, and that 97,000 were captured and enslaved, including Simon bar Giora and John of Giscala.[4]
"The slaughter within was even more dreadful than the spectacle from without. Men and women, old and young, insurgents and priests, those who fought and those who entreated mercy, were hewn down in indiscriminate carnage. The number of the slain exceeded that of the slayers. The legionaries had to clamber over heaps of dead to carry on the work of extermination."[5]
Many fled to areas around the Mediterranean. Titus reportedly refused to accept a wreath of victory, saying that the victory did not come through his own efforts but that he had merely served as an instrument of God's wrath.[6]
Siege of Jerusalem (70) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
The siege ended with the sacking of the city and the destruction of its famous Second Temple. The destruction of both the first and second temples is still mourned annually as the Jewish fast Tisha B'Av. The Arch of Titus, celebrating the Roman sack of Jerusalem and the Temple, still stands in Rome.
Josephus claims that 1,100,000 people were killed during the siege, of which a majority were Jewish, and that 97,000 were captured and enslaved, including Simon bar Giora and John of Giscala.[4]
"The slaughter within was even more dreadful than the spectacle from without. Men and women, old and young, insurgents and priests, those who fought and those who entreated mercy, were hewn down in indiscriminate carnage. The number of the slain exceeded that of the slayers. The legionaries had to clamber over heaps of dead to carry on the work of extermination."[5]
Many fled to areas around the Mediterranean. Titus reportedly refused to accept a wreath of victory, saying that the victory did not come through his own efforts but that he had merely served as an instrument of God's wrath.[6]
Siege of Jerusalem (70) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < click
E
The message brought by the angel was the ANSWER to daniels prayer. Context context context.. since when do we interpret scripture apart form context?
Yes. Did he tell them they would be 70 sequential weeks? NO! this we are left with the passage to look to see when this would be fulfilled. As shown. The stuff Daniel was told have yet to be fulfilled.
It is part of what Paul called the "mystery" which has been revealed to us.
Nope. jeruslalem, is in ruins. Israel is still in sin. The very thing daniel prayerd for (the sin of the city and people) are still happening today.
Oh and by the way, Look at the time daniel wrote this. Were there not some who still followed God. just like there were some who followed Christ after his death? yet what did Daniel say? did he say for us who have followed your love and not sinned? no, he said "we have sinned"
[SUP]5 [/SUP]we have sinned and committed iniquity, we have done wickedly and rebelled, even by departing from Your precepts and Your judgments. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Neither have we heeded Your servants the prophets, who spoke in Your name to our kings and our princes, to our fathers and all the people of the land. [SUP]7 [/SUP]O Lord, righteousness belongs to You, but to us shame of face, as it is this day—to the men of Judah, to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, those near and those far off in all the countries to which You have driven them, because of the unfaithfulness which they have committed against You. [SUP]8 [/SUP]“O Lord, to us belongs shame of face, to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, because we have sinned against You. [SUP]9 [/SUP]To the Lord our God belong mercy and forgiveness, though we have rebelled against Him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]We have not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in His laws, which He set before us by His servants the prophets. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Yes, all Israel has transgressed Your law, and has departed so as not to obey Your voice; therefore the curse and the oath written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against Him. [SUP]12 [/SUP]And He has confirmed His words, which He spoke against us and against our judges who judged us, by bringing upon us a great disaster; for under the whole heaven such has never been done as what has been done to Jerusalem.
Is not this SAME exact thing happening in 33 AD? did anything change? No. why? the prayer was concerning the NATION. not induvidual people. Daniel did not boast himself and say they have sinned, he said WE have sinned. and we have recieved the just punishment.
Guess what. gabriel said the same thing owuld happen because THEY still (as a nation) would continue in their sin, this was fulfilled in 70 AD. over 40 years after the cut off of messiah at the end of the 69th week. Just as prophesied by gabriel. and people want to say the destruction is not part of the 69th week?
when will the 70 weeks be fulfilled? when the nation repents of her sin, Not because of few of them did. Are you saying daniel and others all sinned against God in his day? scripture would disagree.
when will this happen? paul tells us in romans 11.
Yes. Did he tell them they would be 70 sequential weeks? NO! this we are left with the passage to look to see when this would be fulfilled. As shown. The stuff Daniel was told have yet to be fulfilled.
It is part of what Paul called the "mystery" which has been revealed to us.
Nope. jeruslalem, is in ruins. Israel is still in sin. The very thing daniel prayerd for (the sin of the city and people) are still happening today.
Oh and by the way, Look at the time daniel wrote this. Were there not some who still followed God. just like there were some who followed Christ after his death? yet what did Daniel say? did he say for us who have followed your love and not sinned? no, he said "we have sinned"
[SUP]5 [/SUP]we have sinned and committed iniquity, we have done wickedly and rebelled, even by departing from Your precepts and Your judgments. [SUP]6 [/SUP]Neither have we heeded Your servants the prophets, who spoke in Your name to our kings and our princes, to our fathers and all the people of the land. [SUP]7 [/SUP]O Lord, righteousness belongs to You, but to us shame of face, as it is this day—to the men of Judah, to the inhabitants of Jerusalem and all Israel, those near and those far off in all the countries to which You have driven them, because of the unfaithfulness which they have committed against You. [SUP]8 [/SUP]“O Lord, to us belongs shame of face, to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, because we have sinned against You. [SUP]9 [/SUP]To the Lord our God belong mercy and forgiveness, though we have rebelled against Him. [SUP]10 [/SUP]We have not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God, to walk in His laws, which He set before us by His servants the prophets. [SUP]11 [/SUP]Yes, all Israel has transgressed Your law, and has departed so as not to obey Your voice; therefore the curse and the oath written in the Law of Moses the servant of God have been poured out on us, because we have sinned against Him. [SUP]12 [/SUP]And He has confirmed His words, which He spoke against us and against our judges who judged us, by bringing upon us a great disaster; for under the whole heaven such has never been done as what has been done to Jerusalem.
Is not this SAME exact thing happening in 33 AD? did anything change? No. why? the prayer was concerning the NATION. not induvidual people. Daniel did not boast himself and say they have sinned, he said WE have sinned. and we have recieved the just punishment.
Guess what. gabriel said the same thing owuld happen because THEY still (as a nation) would continue in their sin, this was fulfilled in 70 AD. over 40 years after the cut off of messiah at the end of the 69th week. Just as prophesied by gabriel. and people want to say the destruction is not part of the 69th week?
when will the 70 weeks be fulfilled? when the nation repents of her sin, Not because of few of them did. Are you saying daniel and others all sinned against God in his day? scripture would disagree.
when will this happen? paul tells us in romans 11.