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I respect you guys and what you think about this guy. I just highlighted what seems disturbing to me. I have no idea where that came from? But then again, there's always the benefit of the doubt. Also, he's my senior pastor so I kinda sort of have the insider view (and my ministry is backstage on Sundays' live broadcasts).
I don't offer theological reasoning in his defence cause I follow the Lord Jesus Christ. I admit, though, that it's saddening. This whole thing. I don't agree with everything he says... with everything, anyone says, tbh. But I don't think going around telling other people about how 'false' a teacher someone is, would be a good way of leading people to Christ. I won't make this long but I remember Jesus telling his disciples "Don't stop him, anyone who is not against you, is for you."
In all honesty? We all have faulty interpretations of the Word. But thank the Lord, we're given this great opportunity to seek Him for us to know the truth and live it, and build each other up.
I don't offer theological reasoning in his defence cause I follow the Lord Jesus Christ. I admit, though, that it's saddening. This whole thing. I don't agree with everything he says... with everything, anyone says, tbh. But I don't think going around telling other people about how 'false' a teacher someone is, would be a good way of leading people to Christ. I won't make this long but I remember Jesus telling his disciples "Don't stop him, anyone who is not against you, is for you."
In all honesty? We all have faulty interpretations of the Word. But thank the Lord, we're given this great opportunity to seek Him for us to know the truth and live it, and build each other up.
D
Y'all must have different weeds in Europe. My weeds tend to start popping up even before the real plants do. Sometimes I do have to let it be because it's hard to tell the weeds from the seeds, but when there is obvious weed infestation, YES! MOST CERTAINLY! I MUST pull weeds, or they choke out the real plant. We are called to do that. Up there with lost sheep searching, edifying, and warning. Why spend so long talking if you don't think we have a duty to speak up?
Also, if we are really concerned that JP is preaching false gospel, did we care enough to contact him, write him a letter, send him feedback? I do know he gets hate mails and death threats but words of encouragement? Testimonies about people accepting Jesus and breaking free from addictions and evil habits, yes. And THAT, is good enough reason for him to continue studying the Word and preaching about Jesus' grace.
U
Well, I can best answer from personal experience since I never want to judge another’s walk with Jesus.
I knew I was saved from my sins and no longer a slave to sin yet sin still seemed to have a hold on me in some areas.
Unfortunately, the message is so confused today that you are saved but now you have to be good (self-effort goodness) and do x y and z to please God.
But of our own self effort and keeping an eye on ourselves will only cause us to fail. We need to abide in Jesus, deny ourselves, cease our self-effort and let him give us the victory. You have to believe this is true in order to receive. It is all about believing in the sufficiency of His Grace as Paul teaches. Unfortunately even saved people continue to believe in themselves and their ability to be good (so to speak).
But we know that Paul teaches looking at the law only increases sin…we look to Jesus.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Be bold take advantage of Grace. No human on earth can cheapen grace, we can only cheapen the understanding of it, through the refusal to simply turn to God and change our minds, the refusal to look to the cross of Christ and see what it cost the Lord, or the refusal to take advantage of it with our empty, self-righteous religion. Because, true grace always puts itself in a position to be taken advantage of! Praise Jesus!
I knew I was saved from my sins and no longer a slave to sin yet sin still seemed to have a hold on me in some areas.
Unfortunately, the message is so confused today that you are saved but now you have to be good (self-effort goodness) and do x y and z to please God.
But of our own self effort and keeping an eye on ourselves will only cause us to fail. We need to abide in Jesus, deny ourselves, cease our self-effort and let him give us the victory. You have to believe this is true in order to receive. It is all about believing in the sufficiency of His Grace as Paul teaches. Unfortunately even saved people continue to believe in themselves and their ability to be good (so to speak).
But we know that Paul teaches looking at the law only increases sin…we look to Jesus.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.
Be bold take advantage of Grace. No human on earth can cheapen grace, we can only cheapen the understanding of it, through the refusal to simply turn to God and change our minds, the refusal to look to the cross of Christ and see what it cost the Lord, or the refusal to take advantage of it with our empty, self-righteous religion. Because, true grace always puts itself in a position to be taken advantage of! Praise Jesus!
T
MATT 7:1-2
Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.
MARK 3: 28-30
28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— 30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”
If one cherishes one's standing in Christ, then one should be cautious before declaring another to be "a cancerous growth".
I do not know JP myself ... and do not desire to investigate him for judgement ... I will leave that in God's hands.
If we choose to allow a man to teach us, we should be VERY discerning before doing so.
Judge not, that you be not judged. 2 For with what judgment you judge, you will be judged; and with the measure you use, it will be measured back to you.
MARK 3: 28-30
28 “Assuredly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they may utter; 29 but he who blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is subject to eternal condemnation”— 30 because they said, “He has an unclean spirit.”
If one cherishes one's standing in Christ, then one should be cautious before declaring another to be "a cancerous growth".
I do not know JP myself ... and do not desire to investigate him for judgement ... I will leave that in God's hands.
If we choose to allow a man to teach us, we should be VERY discerning before doing so.
P
I surround myself with the best.
But listen to Baptists all the time.
I LOVE Lester Roloff. That was a real man of God.
He knew little of the gifts,but loved people so much.
He told a friend of mine that got the baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT," I will never hold anyone back from getting more of God,but you remember,I AM STILL YOUR PASTOR"
He WOULD NOT go against the gifts. He knew his bible.
But listen to Baptists all the time.
I LOVE Lester Roloff. That was a real man of God.
He knew little of the gifts,but loved people so much.
He told a friend of mine that got the baptism of the HOLY SPIRIT," I will never hold anyone back from getting more of God,but you remember,I AM STILL YOUR PASTOR"
He WOULD NOT go against the gifts. He knew his bible.
U
Lynn,
I need to be under God of course, here is my context for under grace. Romans 6:14
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
Grace “unmerited favour”, yes Grace is a gift, because Jesus was a gift, we did not deserve Him and what He accomplished for us.
Want to understand Grace then know Jesus.
Paul was willing to preach grace to the extent of being misunderstood, persecuted and hated.
…..the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, [is] to testify to the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24b NKJV, annotations added).
Paul was serious to the point of cursing people about this specific gospel, namely the gospel of grace!
But even if we or an angel from Heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
(Gal 1:8 NKJV)
Leave the land of slavery and enter the promised land ....unfortunately we cannot see the promised land while we live in slavery.
Angela
I need to be under God of course, here is my context for under grace. Romans 6:14
For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.
Grace “unmerited favour”, yes Grace is a gift, because Jesus was a gift, we did not deserve Him and what He accomplished for us.
Want to understand Grace then know Jesus.
Paul was willing to preach grace to the extent of being misunderstood, persecuted and hated.
…..the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, [is] to testify to the gospel of the grace of God (Acts 20:24b NKJV, annotations added).
Paul was serious to the point of cursing people about this specific gospel, namely the gospel of grace!
But even if we or an angel from Heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
(Gal 1:8 NKJV)
Leave the land of slavery and enter the promised land ....unfortunately we cannot see the promised land while we live in slavery.
Angela
E
First of all, Joseph Prince is not a cancerous growth; but I'm not defending him. I am defending the right of posters in this forum to have civil and HONEST discourse without a mess of hot words being flung in their face
If there is a cancer evident in this thread, it is the desire to hurt while camouflaging it by supposed concerns over false teaching
The vitriol and accusations and just downright nastiness, is not evident of a desire to discuss anything...it is rather a rampage of misplaced emotions that needed somewhere to go and found a place here
If an audience is desired, then by gum, you have one
If any person actually desires to discuss what they honestly feel is a concern over doctrine, irregardless of who is teaching or posting about it, a discussion can be had without slamming others and creating a dialogue that would be better served in some made for TV movie
If there is a cancer evident in this thread, it is the desire to hurt while camouflaging it by supposed concerns over false teaching
The vitriol and accusations and just downright nastiness, is not evident of a desire to discuss anything...it is rather a rampage of misplaced emotions that needed somewhere to go and found a place here
If an audience is desired, then by gum, you have one
If any person actually desires to discuss what they honestly feel is a concern over doctrine, irregardless of who is teaching or posting about it, a discussion can be had without slamming others and creating a dialogue that would be better served in some made for TV movie
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If I could see what I was writing as being a lie, I would stop and change, like the former ordained Baptist minister and his wife who turned atheist, did.
Anyone who knows me, knows that I have no problem admitting that I screwed up. Even as I did on this thread. I didn't say I like being or admitting that I was wrong, but I have changed my view on one or two things in the past.
The problem with that is that no one has been able to show or prove me wrong yet.
I haven't always believed as I do now. I used to believe as you and many others do.
But I sought God to know the truths with my who heart, without any outside influence or teachings from others. I am where I am, because of what I heard and what I was show in my prayers and meditations of God's word. I have been told and shown things that no one has ever taught, or at least, things I have never heard anyone teach on.
So if what I believe is way out in left field, then I is due to the voice and revelations I heard and received.
Most everything I received came with a scripture verses or two to back up what I heard, along with revelation knowledge of the verse sometimes.
A quick example would be when God literally roared at me for calling a man of God a liar.
He was talking about God taking him to heaven and he said all the aborted babies are there.
This was decades ago, and I called him a liar within myself, not out loud, using Jn 3:5 as my proof to prove him wrong.
Right then, and without any warning, I heard this screaming in my ears. It was extremely loud. Then, in a stern, yet toned down voice I heard, "My word says, except a MAN be born again...". And He stressed the word, man. Then He said to me, BABIES are NOT MEN!!! And that is how He put it to me, with the revelation of that scripture. That's the condensed version.
And perhaps you just passed over what I wrote or failed to pay attention to details.
I said I have been on BOTH sides of the faith fence, that includes the failing to receive side.
And no, I don't have any handicap, but because of what I believed about God responding to our faith, years ago, I almost lost everything and was ever so close to putting my family out one the street, literally. And when I say everything, I mean EVERYTHING! Wife and children, along with the houses and vehicles I had at the time, with all our belongings gone. It came down to one day from losing it all.
I have had people I knew and close family members die on me.
I know what it is like to desire death and to contemplate suicide, as well. Years ago, I too thought of ways that I might end my life, because I failed to receive deliverances. I was a basket case.
But, unlike yourself and most on this forum, I didn't let my personal life's failed experiences or that of others, shape or form my doctrines or what I believe. To do so, would be to build your house on the sand.
The bible say, only those who continue in the word, will come to KNOW the truth, and when that time comes, THEN, and only then, will the truth MAKE them free.
Most fall away from believing, because the word of God wasn't able take root in the stony ground of their heart. Such as yours. I say that, because you cannot receive the words that I have been writing.
Perhaps you think I have been saying that it is all me that is making things happen.
Not so. I never said I am doing any such thing, except agreeing with, believing, and acting on the word of God.
It is the word of God itself, or Himself, that does the work, even as He said He would.
When Jesus said that if we ask, call for, say, desire, crave, require anything in His Name, He WILL do it.
How do you think He does the work?
How do you think He created and upholds the worlds and all things?
It is done so by the Word of God itself.
It's not me or anyone else who does the actual work, it is Jesus, who IS the Word of God, which is truth and is no lie.
Anyone who knows me, knows that I have no problem admitting that I screwed up. Even as I did on this thread. I didn't say I like being or admitting that I was wrong, but I have changed my view on one or two things in the past.
The problem with that is that no one has been able to show or prove me wrong yet.
I haven't always believed as I do now. I used to believe as you and many others do.
But I sought God to know the truths with my who heart, without any outside influence or teachings from others. I am where I am, because of what I heard and what I was show in my prayers and meditations of God's word. I have been told and shown things that no one has ever taught, or at least, things I have never heard anyone teach on.
So if what I believe is way out in left field, then I is due to the voice and revelations I heard and received.
Most everything I received came with a scripture verses or two to back up what I heard, along with revelation knowledge of the verse sometimes.
A quick example would be when God literally roared at me for calling a man of God a liar.
He was talking about God taking him to heaven and he said all the aborted babies are there.
This was decades ago, and I called him a liar within myself, not out loud, using Jn 3:5 as my proof to prove him wrong.
Right then, and without any warning, I heard this screaming in my ears. It was extremely loud. Then, in a stern, yet toned down voice I heard, "My word says, except a MAN be born again...". And He stressed the word, man. Then He said to me, BABIES are NOT MEN!!! And that is how He put it to me, with the revelation of that scripture. That's the condensed version.
And perhaps you just passed over what I wrote or failed to pay attention to details.
I said I have been on BOTH sides of the faith fence, that includes the failing to receive side.
And no, I don't have any handicap, but because of what I believed about God responding to our faith, years ago, I almost lost everything and was ever so close to putting my family out one the street, literally. And when I say everything, I mean EVERYTHING! Wife and children, along with the houses and vehicles I had at the time, with all our belongings gone. It came down to one day from losing it all.
I have had people I knew and close family members die on me.
I know what it is like to desire death and to contemplate suicide, as well. Years ago, I too thought of ways that I might end my life, because I failed to receive deliverances. I was a basket case.
But, unlike yourself and most on this forum, I didn't let my personal life's failed experiences or that of others, shape or form my doctrines or what I believe. To do so, would be to build your house on the sand.
The bible say, only those who continue in the word, will come to KNOW the truth, and when that time comes, THEN, and only then, will the truth MAKE them free.
Most fall away from believing, because the word of God wasn't able take root in the stony ground of their heart. Such as yours. I say that, because you cannot receive the words that I have been writing.
Perhaps you think I have been saying that it is all me that is making things happen.
Not so. I never said I am doing any such thing, except agreeing with, believing, and acting on the word of God.
It is the word of God itself, or Himself, that does the work, even as He said He would.
When Jesus said that if we ask, call for, say, desire, crave, require anything in His Name, He WILL do it.
How do you think He does the work?
How do you think He created and upholds the worlds and all things?
It is done so by the Word of God itself.
It's not me or anyone else who does the actual work, it is Jesus, who IS the Word of God, which is truth and is no lie.
1st Corinthians 12:6-8
King James Version(KJV)
6.)And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7.)But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8.)For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
+++
John 4:23-24
King James Version(KJV)
23.)But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24.)God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
+++
Romans 8:4-7
King James Version(KJV)
4.)That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5.)For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6.)For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7.)Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
+++
Romans 12:1-2
King James Version(KJV)
1.)I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2.)And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
King James Version(KJV)
6.)And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7.)But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8.)For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
+++
John 4:23-24
King James Version(KJV)
23.)But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24.)God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
+++
Romans 8:4-7
King James Version(KJV)
4.)That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
5.)For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
6.)For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
7.)Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.
+++
Romans 12:1-2
King James Version(KJV)
1.)I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
2.)And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.
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