Why such hatred for the seventh day?

[BradC]

This is a gross twisting of scripture. Will keeping the letter of the seventh Commandment kill? Would you say the same thing about the stealing or lying?

Matthew Henry - II. He shows the difference between the Old Testament and the New, and the excellency of the gospel above the law. For, 1. The Old-Testament dispensation was the ministration of death (v. 7), whereas that of the New Testament is the ministration of life. The law discovered sin, and the wrath and curse of God. This showed us a God above us and a God against us; but the gospel discovers grace, and Emmanuel, God with us. Upon this account the gospel is more glorious than the law; and yet that had a glory in it, witness the shining of Moses's face (an indication thereof) when he came down from the mount with the tables in his hand, that reflected rays of brightness upon his countenance. 2. The law was the ministration of condemnation, for that condemned and cursed every one who continued not in all things written therein to do them; but the gospel is the ministration of righteousness: therein the righteousness of God by faith is revealed. This shows us that the just shall live by his faith. This reveals the grace and mercy of God through Jesus Christ, for obtaining the remission of sins and eternal life. The gospel therefore so much exceeds in glory that in a manner it eclipses the glory of the legal dispensation, v. 10. As the shining of a burning lamp is lost, or not regarded, when the sun arises and goes forth in his strength; so there was no glory in the Old Testament, in comparison with that of the New. 3. The law is done away, but the gospel does and shall remain, v. 11. Not only did the glory of Moses's face go away, but the glory of Moses's law is done away also; yea, the law of Moses itself is now abolished. That dispensation was only to continue for a time, and then to vanish away; whereas the gospel shall remain to the end of the world, and is always fresh and flourishing and remains glorious.

 

[BradC]

Thank you L. My mind was taken to a similar place most of this day, and my foremost thought is to watch out for those who teach to exclude any part of the Holy Writings . One actually said the Old Testament, as a book, should be forgotten. Some go so far as to ignore what Jesus teaches on a given subject in favor of some warm and fuzzy umbrella doctrine, and so it goes.

A very good thing came to me in a strange manner. Reading here in this particular thread, some are posting understanding that I have not reckoned with. At first glance they seem to oppose sound doctrine, but reading more, no. Some brethren (sisters) seem to contradict, yet after study, they are correct but showing how Yeshua has come to each in the manner each needs. We all are one in Yeshua. Praise God, amen...

Do you really believe that it is sound doctrine to keep the Sabbath? If we as believers can grow in grace and knowledge of Christ and have the many dimensions of the love of God comprehended with the members of Christ's body and we can escape the corruption that is in the world through the promises of God and we can walk by faith, be filled with the Spirit and have wisdom from above, is there any real importance to keeping the Sabbath? When we can take up our cross and deny self and follow Christ through the Spirit by faith and God imparts righteousness unto us through that faith, what possible benefit is there in keeping the law of the Sabbath? Our fellowship is with Christ, the Lord of the Sabbath, for He is our Sabbath-rest and in and through Him we enter into rest. We do not enter into rest by keeping the Sabbath as a NT believer.

Every believer who has put their trust in Christ (both Jew and Gentile) is no longer under the law of Moses, but instead is under grace through Jesus Christ. The glory of Christ and Him crucified supersedes the glory of the law as a ministration of death and condemnation, rendered it ineffective, no longer needed, abolished, done away with and non operational for the NT believer who is in Christ having the righteousness of God imputed unto them by faith and not the law.

Yeshua only comes one way (not many ways) to those who believe... and that is by grace and truth and not by the law of Moses (Jn 1:17). He was born under the dispensation of the law and fulfilled the law for the sake of those who were under it, but His ministry was not the law but rather it was grace and truth and of His fulness have all we received, grace for grace. It is not grace for violating or breaking the law, it is grace for unmerited favor that comes by faith through the cross of Christ. The sins and transgressions revealed by the law were put away through the blood of the Lamb. The cross was the death blow to the law that everyone was under having their sin revealed to them. Christ did not come to bring the law for that had already come by Moses and had done its job, but He came to bring grace and truth so that those who were under the law and its death sentence could be free from the sin the law revealed. The law was a ministration of death and condemnation and the letter of that law could do nothing but kill those who were under it.

 

[chubbena]

Sorry, Chubena , you speak as a "fool". as Job's wife. If you love the seventh day too much, you will end up like Lots wife, a pillar of salt for the burning. This is very serious, Legalists do not love God, they love their own laws, imposed upon others wrongfully. Love to all. Judge as obeying the laws of liberty and mercy or you will not receive mercy, just cold justice. Flee the wrath to come. Love, hoffco

I am sorry to hear this condemning words from you.
The law of liberty gives freedom from sin and not freedom to do as one pleases.
To give up earthly entertainments and come to physical and spiritual rest on the Sabbath is certainly not a popular idea. As Peter said "They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you."

You said it well that legalists do not love god, they love their own laws.
Psalmist said all His words are true and all His righteous laws are eternal.
To replace His laws with one's own laws to suit one's life style certainly shows who one loves.

 

[john832]

I am sorry to hear this condemning words from you.
The law of liberty gives freedom from sin and not freedom to do as one pleases.
To give up earthly entertainments and come to physical and spiritual rest on the Sabbath is certainly not a popular idea. As Peter said "They are surprised that you do not join them in their reckless, wild living, and they heap abuse on you."

You said it well that legalists do not love god, they love their own laws.
Psalmist said all His words are true and all His righteous laws are eternal.
To replace His laws with one's own laws to suit one's life style certainly shows who one loves.

I could not have said this as well as you have!

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to chubbena again.

 

[chubbena]

Redtent, you are dead wrong, Christ gives us the real understanding of the O.T.. the O.T. does not give us understanding of Christ . You are crucifying Christ a fresh for the shadows of the OLd. YOUR soul is in he balance. Christ Christ. Love to you, Hoffco

The Bereans didn't have the four gospels, they didn't have the letters from Paul, Peter nor John.
All they had were scripture a.k.a. the "OT" to examine to see if what Paul said was true.

Today many use what Paul said to examine if the "OT" was true - and if what the Messiah said was true.

 

[john832]

The Bereans didn't have the four gospels, they didn't have the letters from Paul, Peter nor John.
All they had were scripture a.k.a. the "OT" to examine to see if what Paul said was true.

Today many use what Paul said to examine if the "OT" was true - and if what the Messiah said was true.

Actually, some seem to think that Paul negated what Christ said. That Christianity is all about Paul and Paul's writings.

 

[chubbena]

For those who like to quote John 1:17

It reads "For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ."

The Word of God gave the law through Moses which also promised "The Lord, the Lord, the compassionate and gracious God, slow to anger, abounding in love and faithfulness, maintaining love to thousands, and forgiving wickedness, rebellion and sin."

The Word of God came in flesh to fulfill His promise and to speak the truth about the law.

 

[chubbena]

Actually, some seem to think that Paul negated what Christ said. That Christianity is all about Paul and Paul's writings.

They have to from a business point of view. Give the customers what they want and more and they'd keep coming back.

 

[JaumeJ]

It is evident there are many instances where certain theologies and sects will contradict the teachings of Yeshua in favor of teachings from Paul.

It is not that Paul and Yeshua have different teachings, it is that much of what Paul wrote is based on geographical, temporal and circumstantial influences on a given subject.

Many times, reading Paul, one must refer to all of his writings in order to determine exactly what has been taught to a particular congregation.

When one is confused on a topic, and there is confusion from Paul's writings, it is best to go to the words of the Master, providing there are words on the same subject.

There almost always are teachings from the Master on what Paul writes which clarify and satisfy one's needs.

Actually, some seem to think that Paul negated what Christ said. That Christianity is all about Paul and Paul's writings.

 

[crossnote]

Hatred for the Sabbath? Heck, I rest every time I get a chance...just ask my wife!

 

[LT]

BradC, the Lord rebuke you!

Stop judging JamueJ for what day he observes.
You are making a mockery of the rest of us who observe on Sunday, because now we are guilty by association with you!
We have freedom in Christ. Don't try to control another's freedom.

If you have some Truth, then speak against the liars who say we MUST worship on Saturday,
But so far, I have not heard Truth from you, only harsh words and condemnation for any and all who observe on Saturday.

 

[john832]

BradC, the Lord rebuke you!

Stop judging JamueJ for what day he observes.
You are making a mockery of the rest of us who observe on Sunday, because now we are guilty by association with you!
We have freedom in Christ. Don't try to control another's freedom.

If you have some Truth, then speak against the liars who say we MUST worship on Saturday,
But so far, I have not heard Truth from you, only harsh words and condemnation for any and all who observe on Saturday.

Thank you. Frankly, most of us Sabbath keepers feel like we are explaining or justifying why we keep the Sabbath. I don't intend to condemn a Sunday keeper although I feel condemned by such.

 

[BradC]

BradC, the Lord rebuke you!

Stop judging JamueJ for what day he observes.
You are making a mockery of the rest of us who observe on Sunday, because now we are guilty by association with you!
We have freedom in Christ. Don't try to control another's freedom.

If you have some Truth, then speak against the liars who say we MUST worship on Saturday,
But so far, I have not heard Truth from you, only harsh words and condemnation for any and all who observe on Saturday.

I have never spoken of either day so your guilt by association is unsubstantiated. If you can not tell by my post that I only am addressing the observance and keeping of the Sabbath according to the law then there is not much I can do about that. My conviction is very simple to understand. As NT believers we are not under the law, not even in keeping of the Sabbath. If you are under the belief that we are to keep the Sabbath then you do fall in line with those who do, whether Saturday or another day. That should suffice and be sufficient in defusing you stark rebuke. JaumeJ and others have judged the law of the Sabbath to be kept by them in their own fashion according to their understanding. I have addressed this according to my own understanding that we are not under the law but under grace. They do not apply that to the Sabbath and I do. I also apply that we are under grace concerning the other 9 commandments that surround the fourth commandment. It is very clear and convincing to me that Christ is our Sabbath rest and in Him and not a day we enter into His rest. The law has fallen short in providing the means of entering into rest and the seventh day does not provide that means either. Faith in the cross of Christ is the means that we enter into rest as we come to Him. We can not enter in until we belief, for many have not entered because of their unbelief. I am surprised that so many have not this conviction in their heart and believe they have found some other way to enter in.

 

[VCO]

Thank you. Frankly, most of us Sabbath keepers feel like we are explaining or justifying why we keep the Sabbath. I don't intend to condemn a Sunday keeper although I feel condemned by such.

That is the problem, you have an unfounded feeling that you need to keep explaining or justifying why you keep the Sabbath. That is your right, and personal choice given to you by GOD. Just like it is our right and personal choice, to worship GOD any or EVERY day of the week equally, and that too is given to us by GOD. NO ONE IS ATTACKING YOUR CHOICE TO WORSHIP ON SATURDAY. There is no Sunday Worshiper Conspiracy Theory, No reason to be Phobic, and No hatred for the Sabbath.

Romans 14:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.

However, the majority of Sabbath Keepers seem to continually attack Sunday worshipers or any other day of the week or every day worshipers. And I suspect the VAST MAJORITY of it is motivated by a phobia created in you by the Seventh Day Adventist book by A. Jan Marcussen that is full of twisted misunderstandings, and down right untruths, called The National Sunday Law. In which false interpretations lead the readers to think that Worshiping on Sunday is of the Antichrist, or soon will be. Even Amazon advertizes the book this way.

National Sunday Law explains exactly who the beast is, what the image of the beast is, and what the mark of the beast is.

A fascinating book and a must for anyone in search of the truth. National Sunday Law is a small paperback book with less than 100 pages and medium size print, a very quick read.
National Sunday Law was first published in 1983 and is now in its 110th printing with 36.8 million in print.

National Sunday Law is published by Amazing Truth Publications, a hard-core Seventh Day Adventist publishing house. Millions of copies have been sent as bulk mailings to: "Postal Patron" , including me. AND in my opinion, every copy belongs were I put it, right with the rest of the junk mail, in the trash.

God expects us to be be wise stewards:
A wise steward gets involved is leading others to repent and receive Jesus Christ as Lord.
A wise steward meets the real needs of the poor and sick.
A wise steward supports christian charities and homeless shelters.
A wise steward helps neighbors without being asked.
A wise steward supports missionaries.

An unwise steward publishes junk mail full of unfounded phobias and conspiracy theories, to fill trash cans.

 

[JaumeJ]

I wonder how many here are aware of the term, classic projection, and what it means? Just curious.

 

[LT]

I have never spoken of either day so your guilt by association is unsubstantiated. If you can not tell by my post that I only am addressing the observance and keeping of the Sabbath according to the law then there is not much I can do about that. My conviction is very simple to understand. As NT believers we are not under the law, not even in keeping of the Sabbath. If you are under the belief that we are to keep the Sabbath then you do fall in line with those who do, whether Saturday or another day. That should suffice and be sufficient in defusing you stark rebuke. JaumeJ and others have judged the law of the Sabbath to be kept by them in their own fashion according to their understanding. I have addressed this according to my own understanding that we are not under the law but under grace. They do not apply that to the Sabbath and I do. I also apply that we are under grace concerning the other 9 commandments that surround the fourth commandment. It is very clear and convincing to me that Christ is our Sabbath rest and in Him and not a day we enter into His rest. The law has fallen short in providing the means of entering into rest and the seventh day does not provide that means either. Faith in the cross of Christ is the means that we enter into rest as we come to Him. We can not enter in until we belief, for many have not entered because of their unbelief. I am surprised that so many have not this conviction in their heart and believe they have found some other way to enter in.

It says very clearly in the Word not to cause disputes by judging a man based on what holy days he observes or does not observe (holidays and Sabbaths included).
This is something very important in the goal of the Church, which is to grow into unity in Christ (Read Ephesians and the high prayer of Christ after the last supper in John).

Unity isn't compromise, but it is sorting out the common that all True Believers have. Christ.

 

[BradC]

It says very clearly in the Word not to cause disputes by judging a man based on what holy days he observes or does not observe (holidays and Sabbaths included).
This is something very important in the goal of the Church, which is to grow into unity in Christ (Read Ephesians and the high prayer of Christ after the last supper in John).

Unity isn't compromise, but it is sorting out the common that all True Believers have. Christ.

You have no idea what I have been exposed to in this area of keeping the Sabbath along with the keeping the feasts including Pentecost. I have seen a local church marginally split because there were those who were very close to me who wandered from the grace of God to go back into into the law. It was easier for them to be under the law then under grace, to be responsible to the law and not to one another where the grace of God reigns. They loved Yahweh but the NT church and members of the body of Christ who took up a cross became a stumbling block to them. They could conform to the law morally but they has a hard time being transformed through the cross and the convicting work of the Spirit. They could remain in the flesh under the law and that was comfortable for them, but under grace they had to submit to the teaching of the Spirit in the local church and be transformed by the renewing of their mind.

They began to take on party spirits and only associate with those who wanted to keep the Sabbath, have their own services on Saturday and celebrate the feasts. That is not the NT church and what it has been called to take on through the blood of the new covenant and the cross of Christ. We are to eat Christ flesh and drink His blood but they wanted to put themselves under the law and be morally accountable to the law and not filled with the life of God through the Spirit. They wanted to substitute the righteousness of faith with the righteousness associated with keeping the law. It started off with just a little independent freedom and separation from the majority of believer that later turned into cutting themselves completely off from the others. There was no unity in that progression but rather an all out division because of the law. Remember this... a little leaven will eventually corrupt the whole lump.

 

[VCO]

That is the problem, you have an unfounded feeling that you need to keep explaining or justifying why you keep the Sabbath. That is your right, and personal choice given to you by GOD. Just like it is our right and personal choice, to worship GOD any or EVERY day of the week equally, and that too is given to us by GOD. NO ONE IS ATTACKING YOUR CHOICE TO WORSHIP ON SATURDAY. There is no Sunday Worshiper Conspiracy Theory, No reason to be Phobic, and No hatred for the Sabbath.

Romans 14:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.

However, the majority of Sabbath Keepers seem to continually attack Sunday worshipers or any other day of the week or every day worshipers. And I suspect the VAST MAJORITY of it is motivated by a phobia created in you by the Seventh Day Adventist book by A. Jan Marcussen that is full of twisted misunderstandings, and down right untruths, called The National Sunday Law. In which false interpretations lead the readers to think that Worshiping on Sunday is of the Antichrist, or soon will be. Even Amazon advertizes the book this way.



National Sunday Law is published by Amazing Truth Publications, a hard-core Seventh Day Adventist publishing house. Millions of copies have been sent as bulk mailings to: "Postal Patron" , including me. AND in my opinion, every copy belongs were I put it, right with the rest of the junk mail, in the trash.

God expects us to be be wise stewards:
A wise steward gets involved is leading others to repent and receive Jesus Christ as Lord.
A wise steward meets the real needs of the poor and sick.
A wise steward supports christian charities and homeless shelters.
A wise steward helps neighbors without being asked.
A wise steward supports missionaries.

An unwise steward publishes junk mail full of unfounded phobias and conspiracy theories, to fill trash cans.

Here is a little more info about the book and it's author from Wikipedia:

"A. Jan Marcussen is an American, a 5th generation Seventh-day Adventist and was ordained as a minister in 1982. He still is a Seventh-Day Adventist minister. He is the author of several books including Two Months to Live which relates the real-life stories of people who have overcome cancer, Cousin Henry Potter {and the Terrible Time Machine}, an adventure, and a book on marital happiness.

Marcussen is best known for his very controversial 1983 book National Sunday Law, which has been described as a "condensed version" of Ellen G. White's view in The Great Controversy. 36.8 million copies have been distributed in 63 languages.[1] The book gives an interpretation of the prophecies of the biblical books of Daniel and Revelation, and focuses particularly on the Three Angels' Messages of Revelation chapter fourteen."

Like I said earlier, this book is full of misinterpretations of the prophecies in Daniel and Revelation. You can find lots of rebuttals of this book online. I know Adventists who are very sincere about the relationship to Jesus Christ, and I commend them for that. But authors like those I mentioned above are certainly false teachers, who frequently make statements like: "If you go to Church on Sunday, you are worshiping the Beast with his mark." If you follow teachers, who want to honor GOD by worshiping on Saturday, like the Jews; Praise the Lord; but make sure that is the motive and not a spin off of the errors in interpretation found in the book "The National Sunday Law".

Acts 17:11 (NIV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

And what do I believe personally about the day of worship?

I personally worship the Lord my GOD every day of every week equally; every time HE crosses my mind.

I surrendered complete control of my life to my Lord (Master) Jesus Christ the last week of December 1977, after a third attempt at suicide in one week. I meant that prayer with my whole being as I repented of my sins. I belong to Jesus, and the Holy Spirit dwells in me filling me with joy as I continue to willingly submit to His Lordship. TRY IT, you will like it!

 

[VCO]

That is the problem, you have an unfounded feeling that you need to keep explaining or justifying why you keep the Sabbath. That is your right, and personal choice given to you by GOD. Just like it is our right and personal choice, to worship GOD any or EVERY day of the week equally, and that too is given to us by GOD. NO ONE IS ATTACKING YOUR CHOICE TO WORSHIP ON SATURDAY. There is no Sunday Worshiper Conspiracy Theory, No reason to be Phobic, and No hatred for the Sabbath.

Romans 14:5 (NKJV)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.

However, the majority of Sabbath Keepers seem to continually attack Sunday worshipers or any other day of the week or every day worshipers. And I suspect the VAST MAJORITY of it is motivated by a phobia created in you by the Seventh Day Adventist book by A. Jan Marcussen that is full of twisted misunderstandings, and down right untruths, called The National Sunday Law. In which false interpretations lead the readers to think that Worshiping on Sunday is of the Antichrist, or soon will be. Even Amazon advertizes the book this way.



National Sunday Law is published by Amazing Truth Publications, a hard-core Seventh Day Adventist publishing house. Millions of copies have been sent as bulk mailings to: "Postal Patron" , including me. AND in my opinion, every copy belongs were I put it, right with the rest of the junk mail, in the trash.

God expects us to be be wise stewards:
A wise steward gets involved is leading others to repent and receive Jesus Christ as Lord.
A wise steward meets the real needs of the poor and sick.
A wise steward supports christian charities and homeless shelters.
A wise steward helps neighbors without being asked.
A wise steward supports missionaries.

An unwise steward publishes junk mail full of unfounded phobias and conspiracy theories, to fill trash cans.

Here is a little more info about the book and it's author from Wikipedia:

"A. Jan Marcussen is an American, a 5th generation Seventh-day Adventist and was ordained as a minister in 1982. He still is a Seventh-Day Adventist minister. He is the author of several books including Two Months to Live which relates the real-life stories of people who have overcome cancer, Cousin Henry Potter {and the Terrible Time Machine}, an adventure, and a book on marital happiness.

Marcussen is best known for his very controversial 1983 book National Sunday Law, which has been described as a "condensed version" of Ellen G. White's view in The Great Controversy. 36.8 million copies have been distributed in 63 languages.[1] The book gives an interpretation of the prophecies of the biblical books of Daniel and Revelation, and focuses particularly on the Three Angels' Messages of Revelation chapter fourteen."

Like I said earlier, this book is full of misinterpretations of the prophecies in Daniel and Revelation. You can find lots of rebuttals of this book online. I know Adventists who are very sincere about the relationship to Jesus Christ, and I commend them for that. But authors like those I mentioned above are certainly false teachers, who frequently make statements like: "If you go to Church on Sunday, you are worshiping the Beast with his mark." If you follow teachers, who want to honor GOD by worshiping on Saturday, like the Jews; Praise the Lord; but make sure that is the motive and not a spin off of the errors in interpretation found in the book "The National Sunday Law".

Acts 17:11 (NIV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Now the Bereans were of more noble character than the Thessalonians, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

And what do I believe personally about the day of worship?

I personally worship the Lord my GOD every day of every week equally; every time HE crosses my mind.

I surrendered complete control of my life to my Lord (Master) Jesus Christ the last week of December 1977, after a third attempt at suicide in one week. I meant that prayer with my whole being as I repented of my sins. I belong to Jesus, and the Holy Spirit dwells in me filling me with joy as I continue to willingly submit to His Lordship. TRY IT, you will like it!

 

[VCO]

Here is a little more info about the book and it's author from Wikipedia:

Sorry for the double post. YET another reason to give us an hour or more to edit posts. I was just trying to edit the small picture that did not show up, because with a name like Jan, I thought he was a woman.