Why such hatred for the seventh day?
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C
and Ezekiel 20:18-20 I said to their children in the wilderness, “Do not follow the statutes of your parents or keep their laws or defile yourselves with their idols. I am the Lord your God; follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. Keep my Sabbaths holy, that they may be a sign between us. Then you will know that I am the Lord your God."
I don't think He meant not to keep the law He spoke through Moses but those invented by their parents.
Now would the promised Messiah say to the nation of Israel that the Sabbath is done away with?
I don't think He meant not to keep the law He spoke through Moses but those invented by their parents.
Now would the promised Messiah say to the nation of Israel that the Sabbath is done away with?
S
Yes the Millennium kingdom is still future, that has never been on the table for debate, you brought that into the conversation but it had nothing to do with what was being discused.
That has nothing to do with the law being fulfilled in Christ, or his utterance from the cross.
The NEW covenant, as in NEW is differnt from the OLD.
As to the Kingdom of God its two fold, but I am sure your aware of that a spiritural as well as a physical.
You can read up on this below then get back to me.
What does it mean that Jesus fulfilled the law, but did not abolish it?
That has nothing to do with the law being fulfilled in Christ, or his utterance from the cross.
The NEW covenant, as in NEW is differnt from the OLD.
As to the Kingdom of God its two fold, but I am sure your aware of that a spiritural as well as a physical.
You can read up on this below then get back to me.
What does it mean that Jesus fulfilled the law, but did not abolish it?
K
I have broken every commandment. I have faced temptation and succumbed to it. By the grace of God He's caused me to get back up and repent, see the error of my way and choose His way. It is an ongoing process, that, without knowing Messiah I would be screaming because of no hope. But I have hope, a great hope, and that is with His help I can overcome and build the sort of character I am capable of with God's grace.
It is said, without faith it is impossible to please God. Faith that, out of something unclean something clean can emerge.
How can one not notice that the Sabbath commandment is the only commandment that's really under such heavy attack by the deceiver? Could it be that he knows, keeping the 4th helps us keep them all? I wonder..
It is said, without faith it is impossible to please God. Faith that, out of something unclean something clean can emerge.
How can one not notice that the Sabbath commandment is the only commandment that's really under such heavy attack by the deceiver? Could it be that he knows, keeping the 4th helps us keep them all? I wonder..
The Sabbath REVEALS the identity of the Creator...
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
It also reveals the coming Millennium and Kingdom of God, therefore the Deceiver is working overtime to cloud and hide these truths.
Exo 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the LORD your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates.
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
It also reveals the coming Millennium and Kingdom of God, therefore the Deceiver is working overtime to cloud and hide these truths.
S
Perhaps this will help you, Jesus was asked a simalar question by the Pharisees of His day.
Mathew22:36-39
[SUP]36 [/SUP]“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” [SUP]37 [/SUP]And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ [SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the great and [SUP][o][/SUP]foremost commandment. [SUP]39 [/SUP]The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ [SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
Notice whats important, the Sabbath isnt even given honorable mention, of course Jesus fulfilled that which is what we were orignally talking about. (RESTING from works and the law) that the New Covenant is a covenant of Grace and not works, but for some odd, very odd, reason people want to keep rehashing Christianity 101.
Are the 10 commandments in the New Testament? Well nine are minus the sabbath.
Do we still try to keep them to keep from sining yes, but our salvation is not dependant on the law.
Do we worry about the civial and cermonial laws? No, they dont apply to us and are part of the OLD covenant.
Do we abuse grace? Of course not if we are truly saved.
Lets not split hair and create arguments that dont exsist for the sake of debate, but at the same time if you truly dont understand something than by all means please ask.
Mathew22:36-39
[SUP]36 [/SUP]“Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” [SUP]37 [/SUP]And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ [SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the great and [SUP][o][/SUP]foremost commandment. [SUP]39 [/SUP]The second is like it, ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’ [SUP]40 [/SUP]On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets.”
Notice whats important, the Sabbath isnt even given honorable mention, of course Jesus fulfilled that which is what we were orignally talking about. (RESTING from works and the law) that the New Covenant is a covenant of Grace and not works, but for some odd, very odd, reason people want to keep rehashing Christianity 101.
Are the 10 commandments in the New Testament? Well nine are minus the sabbath.
Do we still try to keep them to keep from sining yes, but our salvation is not dependant on the law.
Do we worry about the civial and cermonial laws? No, they dont apply to us and are part of the OLD covenant.
Do we abuse grace? Of course not if we are truly saved.
Lets not split hair and create arguments that dont exsist for the sake of debate, but at the same time if you truly dont understand something than by all means please ask.
Yea nine out of ten. I hear that a lot and it seems so all except for...
Heb 4:9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
Now the word rest here is Sabbatismos and means keeping the Sabbath. The Diaglott has this...
Heb 4:9 Therefore remains a keeping of a sabbath for the people of the God.
By the way, your logic is faulty. If the Sabbath Command were not repeated would that mean it was done away?
This Law is not repeated in the N.T.
Lev 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
so by your logic, is bestiality now accepted?
Heb 4:9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.
Now the word rest here is Sabbatismos and means keeping the Sabbath. The Diaglott has this...
Heb 4:9 Therefore remains a keeping of a sabbath for the people of the God.
By the way, your logic is faulty. If the Sabbath Command were not repeated would that mean it was done away?
This Law is not repeated in the N.T.
Lev 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.
so by your logic, is bestiality now accepted?
S
I would hope each and every one us here, does that everday, and that we set aside time at least once a day, if not twice, to read the word and be in prayer. The Lords day is just one day set aside for corporate worship and fellowship with other believers.
Sometimes with all this debate, I wonder if people are worship the sabbath or Christ?
Sometimes with all this debate, I wonder if people are worship the sabbath or Christ?
Something very profound is happening here. It is a repeat of what was happening before Christ came the first time and a sect called Pharisees became important. The Pharisee were the ones who carefully listened to scripture, found some scripture they liked and used these to guide them. When Christ taught from the whole scripture they quoted their version to him and said he was a demon, now they are saying "false prophet".
Today they say that scripture doesn't mean what it says, it was only for a tiny group of people. They say because we must obey in spirit and truth, we are not to combine that with actually doing something, the two won't go together. They say that because Christ brought many things forward so He replaced many things that were only used to show what Christ would be like, because we must not use those things but use Christ they say we must no acknowledge those things as explaining Christ. A very favorite of the modern day Pharisee is the idea that God may not combine two instructions about one thing. If scripture says one thing is required of us and it is important, it is a favorite Pharisee like statement they make that everything else has no important, they use the word "only". When that word if included in a post, it usually is announcing that the poster is Pharisee like.
They say that listening to talk of these things is like listening to a Jewish Rabbi and they have only favorite passages to decide about Jews, like the Pharisees had their favorite passages they interpreted in their own way.
There is a remnant who listen to scripture, all of it. The way they look at Sabbath makes a dividing line. The Pharisees could not be taught, they knew they were right and they could quote scripture to prove it. So can the ones against Sabbath. If you give them scripture that Christ taught, or scripture Christ did not replace or that explains Christ, they say it has been cancelled by Christ. Christ is returning, we have a repeat of the same things that happened before.
Today they say that scripture doesn't mean what it says, it was only for a tiny group of people. They say because we must obey in spirit and truth, we are not to combine that with actually doing something, the two won't go together. They say that because Christ brought many things forward so He replaced many things that were only used to show what Christ would be like, because we must not use those things but use Christ they say we must no acknowledge those things as explaining Christ. A very favorite of the modern day Pharisee is the idea that God may not combine two instructions about one thing. If scripture says one thing is required of us and it is important, it is a favorite Pharisee like statement they make that everything else has no important, they use the word "only". When that word if included in a post, it usually is announcing that the poster is Pharisee like.
They say that listening to talk of these things is like listening to a Jewish Rabbi and they have only favorite passages to decide about Jews, like the Pharisees had their favorite passages they interpreted in their own way.
There is a remnant who listen to scripture, all of it. The way they look at Sabbath makes a dividing line. The Pharisees could not be taught, they knew they were right and they could quote scripture to prove it. So can the ones against Sabbath. If you give them scripture that Christ taught, or scripture Christ did not replace or that explains Christ, they say it has been cancelled by Christ. Christ is returning, we have a repeat of the same things that happened before.
C
The Word says to keep the Sabbath holy. That is to keep the whole day separate.
With busy schedule like we have today, it's hard to separate a whole day anymore so it's understandable to dedicate a few minutes here and there everyday and call everyday holy - even though many have two days off every week.
With busy schedule like we have today, it's hard to separate a whole day anymore so it's understandable to dedicate a few minutes here and there everyday and call everyday holy - even though many have two days off every week.
Thank you L. My mind was taken to a similar place most of this day, and my foremost thought is to watch out for those who teach to exclude any part of the Holy Writings . One actually said the Old Testament, as a book, should be forgotten. Some go so far as to ignore what Jesus teaches on a given subject in favor of some warm and fuzzy umbrella doctrine, and so it goes.
A very good thing came to me in a strange manner. Reading here in this particular thread, some are posting understanding that I have not reckoned with. At first glance they seem to oppose sound doctrine, but reading more, no. Some brethren (sisters) seem to contradict, yet after study, they are correct but showing how Yeshua has come to each in the manner each needs. We all are one in Yeshua. Praise God, amen...
A very good thing came to me in a strange manner. Reading here in this particular thread, some are posting understanding that I have not reckoned with. At first glance they seem to oppose sound doctrine, but reading more, no. Some brethren (sisters) seem to contradict, yet after study, they are correct but showing how Yeshua has come to each in the manner each needs. We all are one in Yeshua. Praise God, amen...
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B
Now where in the entire book of James does he say, IF YOU CHOOSE to obey the Law and break it, then you are guilty of all?
answer: Jas 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
amplified says it in this manner: For whosoever keeps the Law [as a] whole but stumbles and offends in one [single instance] has become guilty of [breaking] all of it.
whoever shall keep the whole law the verb 'keep' is future, active, indicative and it refers to the subject initiating the action (active voice) of carefully attending to adhere to the whole law. If the subject intends or contemplates (future tense) to keep the whole law as a factual occurrence of what he will do or in other words has decided to do in keeping the whole law, if he stumbles (or makes a mistake and fails at the law) in even a single point (one as opposes to many) he is guilty (under obligation and liable legally) of all (all things that pertain to the whole law).
The believer is not obligated to keep the law but he is obligated to the Spirit, to walk, to be filled and be led of the Spirit who will guide him into all truth. This is the law of the Spirit of life and it makes us free from the law of sin and death (Rom 7:6, 8:2,4), because the strength of sin is in the law (1 Cor 15:56). We did not receive the Spirit or minister the Spirit by the works of the law but we do by the hearing of faith (Gal 3:2). Therefore, if we are led of the Spirit we are not under the law (Gal 5:18).
Rom 8:3,4
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
answer: Jas 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all.
amplified says it in this manner: For whosoever keeps the Law [as a] whole but stumbles and offends in one [single instance] has become guilty of [breaking] all of it.
whoever shall keep the whole law the verb 'keep' is future, active, indicative and it refers to the subject initiating the action (active voice) of carefully attending to adhere to the whole law. If the subject intends or contemplates (future tense) to keep the whole law as a factual occurrence of what he will do or in other words has decided to do in keeping the whole law, if he stumbles (or makes a mistake and fails at the law) in even a single point (one as opposes to many) he is guilty (under obligation and liable legally) of all (all things that pertain to the whole law).
The believer is not obligated to keep the law but he is obligated to the Spirit, to walk, to be filled and be led of the Spirit who will guide him into all truth. This is the law of the Spirit of life and it makes us free from the law of sin and death (Rom 7:6, 8:2,4), because the strength of sin is in the law (1 Cor 15:56). We did not receive the Spirit or minister the Spirit by the works of the law but we do by the hearing of faith (Gal 3:2). Therefore, if we are led of the Spirit we are not under the law (Gal 5:18).
Rom 8:3,4
3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Brother John832I have lived longer and therefore done so more.
Goodness.........I sure hope y'all ain't STILL doing all this..........goodness.........
B
Some of you only want to be responsible to God by keeping the law and you use the 4th commandment as your show case commandment to prove or test yourself whether you are honest about keeping the law. You don't use the other laws to show case your obedience because they are a little more subjective and there is more room to play with those. To keep the Sabbath holy you have to honor a designated period of time each week, you have to refrain yourself from working during that time including everyone in your household and some of you must bring yourself together to worship God. There are others who have to limit how far they can travel or walk and if there is no occasion to show mercy on that Sabbath day then you have kept that day to fulfill the righteousness of the law that has told you to keep it holy.
This is the truth that many of you fall under and you would rather be under the law then under grace because it is more tangible for you. You can go to the law to find out where you have gone wrong and correct it instead of being led of the Spirit that might convict you otherwise. The Spirit convicts of sin, righteousness and judgment in (John 16:8-11), do the law do such things? We are not the adult sons and daughters of God because we keep the law but rather because we are led of the Spirit (Rom 8:14). If you, as believers in Yeshua, want to be honest and without hypocrisy concerning (John 15,16 & 17), you will come to the conclusion through the Spirit that the law has nothing to do with what Christ is addressing with His disciples and His Father in those chapters.
This is the truth that many of you fall under and you would rather be under the law then under grace because it is more tangible for you. You can go to the law to find out where you have gone wrong and correct it instead of being led of the Spirit that might convict you otherwise. The Spirit convicts of sin, righteousness and judgment in (John 16:8-11), do the law do such things? We are not the adult sons and daughters of God because we keep the law but rather because we are led of the Spirit (Rom 8:14). If you, as believers in Yeshua, want to be honest and without hypocrisy concerning (John 15,16 & 17), you will come to the conclusion through the Spirit that the law has nothing to do with what Christ is addressing with His disciples and His Father in those chapters.
How are you able to reconcile that with scripture?
Galatians 3:10-13
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
Galatians 3:10-13
[SUP]10 [/SUP]For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
You sound like a Pharisee who knows only of tassels on garments, for instance, as something to make him righteous. Man today has learned they don't, so he would condemn the Lord for putting on tassels. Jesus kept the Sabbath, would you condemn that, too? Christ did it obeying the law, including love for others and understanding God's love for them as He kept it. I have heard the modern "Christian" excuse Christ for His obedience, though. They say that after Christ paid for our sin, then Christ wouldn't have had to honor the Sabbath. Scripture can say anything, if read in a way to make it do that.
Not working on the Sabbath your legalistic way, and not working on the Sabbath in the Lord's way are two entirely different things.
Not working on the Sabbath your legalistic way, and not working on the Sabbath in the Lord's way are two entirely different things.
Brother John832I have lived longer and therefore done so more.
Goodness.........I sure hope y'all ain't STILL doing all this..........goodness.........
OK, everyone who tries to be justified by obedience instead of faith in the blood of Christ is under the curse (penalty) of the Law. Only Christ's shed blood can remit sin...
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
God's solution to the sin problem was Christ's sacrifice to remit sin. Your solution is to do away with the Law that defines sin.
I gotta go with Christ on this one.
and that negates the Law somehow?
Uh, yeaah...
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Notice that in this passage it NOWHERE says the Law is dead, it says we are.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Care to explain this?
Afterwards, jump right in and explain this...
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
Heb 9:22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
God's solution to the sin problem was Christ's sacrifice to remit sin. Your solution is to do away with the Law that defines sin.
I gotta go with Christ on this one.
and that negates the Law somehow?
Uh, yeaah...
Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Rom 7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
Rom 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
Rom 7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Rom 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Rom 7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
Notice that in this passage it NOWHERE says the Law is dead, it says we are.
Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Care to explain this?
Afterwards, jump right in and explain this...
Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.