Why such hatred for the seventh day?

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chubbena

Guest
Some of you only want to be responsible to God by keeping the law and you use the 4th commandment as your show case commandment to prove or test yourself whether you are honest about keeping the law. You don't use the other laws to show case your obedience because they are a little more subjective and there is more room to play with those. To keep the Sabbath holy you have to honor a designated period of time each week, you have to refrain yourself from working during that time including everyone in your household and some of you must bring yourself together to worship God. There are others who have to limit how far they can travel or walk and if there is no occasion to show mercy on that Sabbath day then you have kept that day to fulfill the righteousness of the law that has told you to keep it holy.

This is the truth that many of you fall under and you would rather be under the law then under grace because it is more tangible for you. You can go to the law to find out where you have gone wrong and correct it instead of being led of the Spirit that might convict you otherwise. The Spirit convicts of sin, righteousness and judgment in (John 16:8-11), do the law do such things? We are not the adult sons and daughters of God because we keep the law but rather because we are led of the Spirit (Rom 8:14). If you, as believers in Yeshua, want to be honest and without hypocrisy concerning (John 15,16 & 17), you will come to the conclusion through the Spirit that the law has nothing to do with what Christ is addressing with His disciples and His Father in those chapters.
I totally see your love for the seventh day.

What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
 
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BradC

Guest
You sound like a Pharisee who knows only of tassels on garments, for instance, as something to make him righteous. Man today has learned they don't, so he would condemn the Lord for putting on tassels. Jesus kept the Sabbath, would you condemn that, too? Christ did it obeying the law, including love for others and understanding God's love for them as He kept it. I have heard the modern "Christian" excuse Christ for His obedience, though. They say that after Christ paid for our sin, then Christ wouldn't have had to honor the Sabbath. Scripture can say anything, if read in a way to make it do that.

Not working on the Sabbath your legalistic way, and not working on the Sabbath in the Lord's way are two entirely different things.
I did not make the rules of the Sabbath nor was I the one to enforce them as the law. You are the ones who want to keep the law of the Sabbath so it can be holy, but you want to keep it according to mercy and not according to the condemnation of the law. Why is it that when Christ was the end of the law to everyone that believes (both to the Jew and the Gentile) that you exclude the 10 commandments, especially the keeping of the Sabbath? Because keeping the Sabbath is keeping the righteousness of the law and if you deny that you do it for that reason then you are are being dishonest. I don't care how long you have kept it. The NT church, which you are apart of, is not obligated under any law to keep the Sabbath and you do not want any part of that because you love the law and you love it for the sake of righteousness. In your eyes if I or any believer does not keep the Sabbath then we have failed the righteousness of God. Tell me that you are different!
 

john832

Senior Member
May 31, 2013
11,389
193
63
I did not make the rules of the Sabbath nor was I the one to enforce them as the law. You are the ones who want to keep the law of the Sabbath so it can be holy, but you want to keep it according to mercy and not according to the condemnation of the law. Why is it that when Christ was the end of the law to everyone that believes (both to the Jew and the Gentile) that you exclude the 10 commandments, especially the keeping of the Sabbath? Because keeping the Sabbath is keeping the righteousness of the law and if you deny that you do it for that reason then you are are being dishonest. I don't care how long you have kept it. The NT church, which you are apart of, is not obligated under any law to keep the Sabbath and you do not want any part of that because you love the law and you love it for the sake of righteousness. In your eyes if I or any believer does not keep the Sabbath then we have failed the righteousness of God. Tell me that you are different!
Aw c'mon, Rom 10:4?

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Word for end here is...

G5056
τέλος
telos
tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid): - + continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.

And it does not mean cease to exist.

1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Same word here, is this the obliteration of your faith?

Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Have you seen the obliteration of the LORD?

The word means result or conclusion.
 
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BradC

Guest
If some of you could you would go right back to the temple sacrifices and be content with that because that is how you relate to God. Paul disagrees with you and JaumeJ has a problem with it. The temple is gone and there is no more sacrifice for sin because of Christ. The temple that was destroyed that Christ raised up in three days was the temple of His own body. You love the law of Moses and have been structured in your thinking to live according to that law knowing that Christ was the end of the law for righteousness. Now who is being a religious zealot according to the law, me or you?
 
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BradC

Guest
Aw c'mon, Rom 10:4?

Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.

Word for end here is...

G5056
τέλος
telos
tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid): - + continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.

And it does not mean cease to exist.

1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

Same word here, is this the obliteration of your faith?

Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.

Have you seen the obliteration of the LORD?

The word means result or conclusion.
Meaning that it is no more needed because it has been excelled by another and that is not what you and others want to reckon upon in your faith.

2 Cor 3:6-13
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a veil over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,991
339
83
I don't sense any hatred of the seventh day, just a difference of its purpose. Saturdays were just 24 hours of time that God set aside each week for His people (Exodus 31:13). The sabbath was made for man (the Hebrews), it represented rest. But that "rest" was realized in Christ. So for many Christians, recognizing a single day which once symbolized our future spiritual rest, is tantamount to substituting Christ for Saturday. As I mentioned before; The sabbath day was created for man, but only until the Lord of the Sabbath was given for man. jmo
 
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Feb 8, 2014
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I feel blessed to have read this discussion over my morning tea today. Thank you all for this wonderful conversation.

I have been a Sabbath keeper my entire adult life. 23 years if memory serves me. It's been lonely for much of that, as the people around me have not been Sabbath keepers. I have learned to accept the peculiar nature of that life, as it certainly separates me from nearly everyone around me. (1 Peter 2:9)

This is a really great article: What is the Seal of God? - Bible Revelation Keeping of the law is the "mark of Yah." It is his law sealed into our heads that sets "His People" apart from the people who follow the Whore of Babylon.

My answer to the stated question; "why so much hatred?"

By the very act of keeping the Sabbath, a believer makes non-Sabbath keepers wrong. That is true of all of the set-apart behaviors of the Yehudim, or Netzrayim. Many believers do not eat unclean meat, do not keep unclean feasts, and do not wear mixed clothing. Not as an act of works to get into heaven, but in a humble desire to be as pleasing to the King as possible. By committing these acts, these believers reflect back the true will of our Father, and shine a light on the sinfulness of Sun-day keepers. By keeping the law, they are revealing the wrongness of what mainstream believers are doing. I'm probably not saying this very well. No one wants to be told they are doing wrong when they have been told and live in certainty that they are right. It's very humbling to realize that one's behavior, which was thought to be holy, is actually profanity in the eyes of your God. It's hard to admit to being lied to, and harder still that we believed the lie.

Humble thyself in the sight of Yah, and he shall lift you up. Amen.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
but dont say you are following the Bible when you worship sunday, even the pope says that is silly
he says the only reason to worship on sunday is becaue HE CHANGED IT and you take his authority as higher than God
that is what he siad in the catechism
so you actually believe what the pope says about how he supposedly changed the sabbath?

because i don't...but i guess you just have more faith in the pope than i do...go figure... :cool:
 
Oct 31, 2011
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I did not make the rules of the Sabbath nor was I the one to enforce them as the law. You are the ones who want to keep the law of the Sabbath so it can be holy, but you want to keep it according to mercy and not according to the condemnation of the law. Why is it that when Christ was the end of the law to everyone that believes (both to the Jew and the Gentile) that you exclude the 10 commandments, especially the keeping of the Sabbath? Because keeping the Sabbath is keeping the righteousness of the law and if you deny that you do it for that reason then you are are being dishonest. I don't care how long you have kept it. The NT church, which you are apart of, is not obligated under any law to keep the Sabbath and you do not want any part of that because you love the law and you love it for the sake of righteousness. In your eyes if I or any believer does not keep the Sabbath then we have failed the righteousness of God. Tell me that you are different!
I am NOT one with people who deny scripture! I believe it, all of it. I don't think one scripture cancels another and I don't identify with those people. God told me that if someone accepts Christ they are my bother, but those who deny all other scripture are brothers who have alienated themselves, the black sheep of the family.

You say Christ condemned the law? Do you actually think that because Christ is the end of the law because through Christ all is forgiven, that means that Christ cancelled what the law was for? I know, because it is a schoolmaster and points to sin that cancels the law as a guide to us!! Oh My!!

Like all black sheep in any family, they only tell how awful the members of the family are, never talk of what the family stands for. Like "you only love the law for the sake of righteousness you bad person". "In your eyes I have failed". In God's eyes you are listening to some of His words and denying others, that is what you say you are doing.
 
Oct 31, 2011
8,200
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I feel blessed to have read this discussion over my morning tea today. Thank you all for this wonderful conversation.

I have been a Sabbath keeper my entire adult life. 23 years if memory serves me. It's been lonely for much of that, as the people around me have not been Sabbath keepers. I have learned to accept the peculiar nature of that life, as it certainly separates me from nearly everyone around me. (1 Peter 2:9)

This is a really great article: What is the Seal of God? - Bible Revelation Keeping of the law is the "mark of Yah." It is his law sealed into our heads that sets "His People" apart from the people who follow the Whore of Babylon.

My answer to the stated question; "why so much hatred?"

By the very act of keeping the Sabbath, a believer makes non-Sabbath keepers wrong. That is true of all of the set-apart behaviors of the Yehudim, or Netzrayim. Many believers do not eat unclean meat, do not keep unclean feasts, and do not wear mixed clothing. Not as an act of works to get into heaven, but in a humble desire to be as pleasing to the King as possible. By committing these acts, these believers reflect back the true will of our Father, and shine a light on the sinfulness of Sun-day keepers. By keeping the law, they are revealing the wrongness of what mainstream believers are doing. I'm probably not saying this very well. No one wants to be told they are doing wrong when they have been told and live in certainty that they are right. It's very humbling to realize that one's behavior, which was thought to be holy, is actually profanity in the eyes of your God. It's hard to admit to being lied to, and harder still that we believed the lie.

Humble thyself in the sight of Yah, and he shall lift you up. Amen.
I wish so much that all those who know Christ, and are so arrogant in that knowledge, could really hear it when we tell them we have a "humble desire to be as pleasing to the King as possible" I am so tired of being scolded and accused of wrong doing because of this.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
If there should ever be a sale on anything I need, there is nothing wrong with my going to that store and buying it. Incidentally, this particular store has one day sales, you guessed it, on Saturdays. Anything that is good one may do, such as having to work on the Sabbath.
sigh...here it is again...more proof that the people who are constantly harping about 'keeping the sabbath' -are not even observing the sabbath in the biblical way-

in the bible you weren't allowed to buy or sell on the sabbath...nehemiah closed the gates of jerusalem on the sabbath to keep the merchants from coming in and doing business...the women who went to jesus' tomb couldn't go buy spices on the sabbath...

but apparently the only thing you have to do to be faithful to God in this matter is to declare yourself a 'sabbath keeper' and then you can go on just as you did before...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
A bondage. That's right. A bondage. Any time anything that affects our convenience is bondage.
oh please...most of you so called 'sabbath keepers' do nothing more with regard to the sabbath than declaring yourselves 'sabbath compliant' and moving on...talk about convenience...
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
When the protestant reformation was happining in the 1600's the protestants said that they should keep all the Bible
know what a pope actually said?

"We will win the argument. They claim to follow the bible and yet they keep sunday for which there is no scriptural basis. They have already given the argument to us as the ultimate authority for their religion!"

that is what a pope said.
i am sure the pope is glad to hear that you agree with him...but the rest of us don't...
 
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BradC

Guest
I totally see your love for the seventh day.

What shall we say, then? Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase?
Our love is for the Lord of the Sabbath, who is our rest. He is our Sabbath rest not the seventh day. It is He who fulfilled the law and in Him we have rest. In Him we cease from our labors and find rest for our souls. He through the Spirit is the one who dwells within the temple of our body. It is going to be Him who creates the new heaven and earth who we will reign with for ever and ever. No more will we have the same flesh when we put on immortality and incorruption, for this flesh and blood can not inherit the kingdom of God in heaven.
 
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chubbena

Guest
I don't sense any hatred of the seventh day, just a difference of its purpose. Saturdays were just 24 hours of time that God set aside each week for His people (Exodus 31:13). The sabbath was made for man (the Hebrews), it represented rest. But that "rest" was realized in Christ. So for many Christians, recognizing a single day which once symbolized our future spiritual rest, is tantamount to substituting Christ for Saturday. As I mentioned before; The sabbath day was created for man, but only until the Lord of the Sabbath was given for man. jmo
The rest in Christ has replaced physical rest so man can get beaten on Friday nights and Saturdays by whatever he's after for he still has Sundays to rest. Our church certainly understands this so service usually starts at around 11 am and Sunday schools at 9:30 am. After lunch gatherings he could do grocery shopping or to continue what's left off on Saturday. The lawyers wouldn't understand this.
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
and Ezekiel 20:18-20 I said to their children in the wilderness, “Do not follow the statutes of your parents or keep their laws or defile yourselves with their idols. I am the Lord your God; follow my decrees and be careful to keep my laws. Keep my Sabbaths holy, that they may be a sign between us. Then you will know that I am the Lord your God."
well this is ironic...because half of the time when the sabbath keepers see the word 'sabbaths' in colossians 2:16-17 they will argue that it isn't talking about the weekly seventh day sabbath at all...

but i guess double standards make it a lot easier to twist scripture to fit your views...
 
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chubbena

Guest
oh please...most of you so called 'sabbath keepers' do nothing more with regard to the sabbath than declaring yourselves 'sabbath compliant' and moving on...talk about convenience...
Is that all you've got besides the video cam you put in my house? :)
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
How can one not notice that the Sabbath commandment is the only commandment that's really under such heavy attack by the deceiver?
really? haven't you noticed the normalization of adultery and sexual sin in society lately?
 
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RachelBibleStudent

Guest
This Law is not repeated in the N.T.

Lev 18:23 Neither shalt thou lie with any beast to defile thyself therewith: neither shall any woman stand before a beast to lie down thereto: it is confusion.

so by your logic, is bestiality now accepted?
what a ridiculous attempt at argumentation...

sexual immorality is condemned in the new testament...this would obviously fall under that category...duh... :rolleyes:
 
Oct 31, 2011
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sigh...here it is again...more proof that the people who are constantly harping about 'keeping the sabbath' -are not even observing the sabbath in the biblical way-

in the bible you weren't allowed to buy or sell on the sabbath...nehemiah closed the gates of jerusalem on the sabbath to keep the merchants from coming in and doing business...the women who went to jesus' tomb couldn't go buy spices on the sabbath...

but apparently the only thing you have to do to be faithful to God in this matter is to declare yourself a 'sabbath keeper' and then you can go on just as you did before...
Please read scripture before you criticize. Don't read it legalistically but in truth and spirit, and still realize that there is a connection between the world God created and the spiritual world.

With that said, we can say it is wrong not to keep Sabbath. But only Christ can criticize those they see trying to keep it for Christ knew the heart. Scripture tells us all about what is required, posters have reported it on this thread.