Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

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garee

Banned
#641
Mar 28, 2016
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#641
watcher2013 said:
Why the need to baptize then?
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If they have a desire to be ceremonial baptized like Aarons Sons as part of the priesthood of believers .Who would stop them from being part of a shadow .

When Aarons Sons wanted to make it more than a shadow of good things to come (Christ) they wanted to make it into one of those self edifying works and added there own personal touch. The fire consumed them and did not burn the ceremonial
clothing. Teaching us walk by faith the unseen eternal

Leviticus 10:1-3 King James Version (KJV)And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the Lord, which he commanded them not.And there went out fire from the Lord, and devoured them, and they died before the Lord.Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the Lord spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace.

Not the flesh of mankind will be sanctified as glorified flesh . No sign gifts used to confirm a person got wet for a moment .
 
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watcher2013

Senior Member
#642
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
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#642
garee said:
If they have a desire to be ceremonial baptized like Aarons Sons as part of the priesthood of believers .Who would stop them from being part of a shadow .

When Aarons Sons wanted to make it more than a shadow of good things to come (Christ) they wanted to make it into one of those self edifying works and added there own personal touch. The fire consumed them and did not burn the ceremonial
clothing. Teaching us walk by faith the unseen eternal

Leviticus 10:1-3 King James Version (KJV)And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the Lord, which he commanded them not.And there went out fire from the Lord, and devoured them, and they died before the Lord.Then Moses said unto Aaron, This is it that the Lord spake, saying, I will be sanctified in them that come nigh me, and before all the people I will be glorified. And Aaron held his peace.

Not the flesh of mankind will be sanctified as glorified flesh . No sign gifts used to confirm a person got wet for a moment .
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or isn't Jesus commanded the apsotles to baptise those who believes?
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#648
May 23, 2012
13,112
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#648
watcher2013 said:
Why the need to baptize then?
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Why are they to be baptized or we ? because we are instructed to Believe and Be baptized. Just as Jesus was, the Apostles were and paul and the early church fathers and so on. When Baptism was done it was done publicly or by witnesses that they were follower of Jesu who they were being baptized into by faith the act of baptism was done. Many who were baptized suffered serious retaliation for doing so.
 
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watcher2013

Senior Member
#649
Aug 6, 2013
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#649
CS1 said:
Why are they to be baptized or we ? because we are instructed to Believe and Be baptized. Just as Jesus was, the Apostles were and paul and the early church fathers and so on. When Baptism was done it was done publicly or by witnesses that they were follower of Jesu who they were being baptized into by faith the act of baptism was done. Many who were baptized suffered serious retaliation for doing so.
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exactly believed and be baptized....
Jas_2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#650
May 23, 2012
13,112
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#650
watcher2013 said:
exactly believed and be baptized....
Jas_2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
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You what is you point ? you quote James as to say what?

the subtle response is very telling. The truth that the word Belief in Christ and Believe as in James 2:19 are not the same thing.

The Greeks loved the Intellect. The Hebrew dealt with the heart . James is saying to intellectually accept that God does exist and have not repented and accepted Jesus is not salvation. Faith is the noun and Belief is the action or verb. your faith should cause a change in the heart of the person which changes the mind as one grows in the Grace and knowledge of the Lord.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#651
May 23, 2012
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#651
Dave-L said:
If you were not first taught how to understand Acts by Pentecostals, you would have an entirely different view from theirs.
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wrong! if you were not taught by those who were not Pentecostal you would have entirely different view. You point is not argumentative biblically it is opinionated You did not refute the scriptures I used you made an assertion. John chapter 14 to 16 are not my words they are Christs words. it is not just Acts , it is the Old Testament & New Testament
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#652
Dec 10, 2019
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#652
watcher2013 said:
No...although we are to walk in good works as God prepared for us to walk
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But your tying salvation to works which is wrong. Also, I would highly recommend not getting your theology from YouTube videos.
 
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watcher2013

Senior Member
#653
Aug 6, 2013
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#653
Aerials1978 said:
But your tying salvation to works which is wrong. Also, I would highly recommend not getting your theology from YouTube videos.
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I am not tying salvation to works...merely
emphasizing on what Jesus said...
Except a man be born of water and spirit CANNOT enter the kingdom of God...
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#654
Dec 10, 2019
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#654
watcher2013 said:
I am not tying salvation to works...merely
emphasizing on what Jesus said...
Except a man be born of water and spirit CANNOT enter the kingdom of God...
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Sure you are. You’re saying baptism is a requirement which would indicate that a physical act is needed for salvation. I would suggest you read some scholarly writings on that particular passage with proper hermeneutics.
 
Dave-L

Dave-L

Banned
#655
Jan 17, 2020
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#655
CS1 said:
wrong! if you were not taught by those who were not Pentecostal you would have entirely different view. You point is not argumentative biblically it is opinionated You did not refute the scriptures I used you made an assertion. John chapter 14 to 16 are not my words they are Christs words. it is not just Acts , it is the Old Testament & New Testament
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I was taught by Pentecostals. They teach each other to "speak in tongues" Real tongues were spontaneous.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#656
May 23, 2012
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#656
Aerials1978 said:
Sure you are. You’re saying baptism is a requirement which would indicate that a physical act is needed for salvation. I would suggest you read some scholarly writings on that particular passage with proper hermeneutics.
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But is that the case and maybe one is taking a hard line with words like mandatory, required, etc...

Why is yo that one think Baptism is needed for salvation when we see clearly those who were saved were not baptized in water?


IF you don't like the word mandatory or required what about Obeying or Obedience tot Jesus ? Who said

Be baptized ? IF Jesus said to do something is it required to do yes or no? Are we to Obey our Lord and follow HIM in Baptism or are to to argue that it is not needed for salvation? How about some context to our thinking?

1. I get saved by the preaching of the gospel. I under conviction surrender to Christ and accept Him as lord and savior. On my way home... BOOM!!!! car crash dead. do I go to be with Jesus ? yes or no?

2. I get saved by the preaching of the gospel. I under conviction surrender to Christ and accept Him as Lord and savior.

I make it home attend church and learn that after I am saved I am to follow Jesus and obey HIM and get Baptized after I Believed. But I do not do it ? who is in a better context with being saved?

Is not obeying Jesus Ok ? How is that showing what you profess?
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#657
Dec 10, 2019
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#657
CS1 said:
But is that the case and maybe one is taking a hard line with words like mandatory, required, etc...

Why is yo that one think Baptism is needed for salvation when we see clearly those who were saved were not baptized in water?


IF you don't like the word mandatory or required what about Obeying or Obedience tot Jesus ? Who said

Be baptized ? IF Jesus said to do something is it required to do yes or no? Are we to Obey our Lord and follow HIM in Baptism or are to to argue that it is not needed for salvation? How about some context to our thinking?

1. I get saved by the preaching of the gospel. I under conviction surrender to Christ and accept Him as lord and savior. On my way home... BOOM!!!! car crash dead. do I go to be with Jesus ? yes or no?

2. I get saved by the preaching of the gospel. I under conviction surrender to Christ and accept Him as Lord and savior.

I make it home attend church and learn that after I am saved I am to follow Jesus and obey HIM and get Baptized after I Believed. But I do not do it ? who is in a better context with being saved?

Is not obeying Jesus Ok ? How is that showing what you profess?
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The conversation is not about obeying. The contention from the other poster is baptism is a must in order for salvation. It’s justification vs sanctification.
 
CS1

CS1

Well-known member
#658
May 23, 2012
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#658
Aerials1978 said:
The conversation is not about obeying. The contention from the other poster is baptism is a must in order for salvation. It’s justification vs sanctification.
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I'm sorry I thought it was "Why is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for today ".

which is the original topic. You did not answer my questions. You say it is not about obeying yet it is not about mandatory, required , or even needed water baptism for salvation.
So not obeying is ok because it is not about obeying what Jesus said to do? Ok.

Thank you.
 
Aerials1978

Aerials1978

Well-known member
#660
Dec 10, 2019
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#660
CS1 said:
I'm sorry I thought it was "Why is the Baptism of the Holy Spirit for today ".

which is the original topic. You did not answer my questions. You say it is not about obeying yet it is not about mandatory, required , or even needed water baptism for salvation.
So not obeying is ok because it is not about obeying what Jesus said to do? Ok.

Thank you.
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That’s not what I said. Context matters not assumptions.
 
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