Why the Baptism with the Holy Spirit is not for Today

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watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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Sure you are. You’re saying baptism is a requirement which would indicate that a physical act is needed for salvation. I would suggest you read some scholarly writings on that particular passage with proper hermeneutics.
Baptism is a requirement...if it is Born of water...
Immersing urself in water has no merit at all...
But the baptism in Christ is.
 

Absolutely

Well-known member
Jul 23, 2018
5,761
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Absolutely said:
I am glad i dont have any cessationism to unlearn


Apparently, it ceases to exist.
I was so fortunate to be arrested by Jesus during the awesome charismatic movement.

Right away i was immersed in sound doctrine in a massive outpouring of the Holy Spirit.

What a feast it was.

The next big movement i was so privlidged to be a part of was times square church revival on Broadway with David Wilkerson.

Then came the mid nineties with several waves of massive outpourings.

In all of them ,one theme emerged ,and separated the dead from the living.

"Only the hungry need apply"

Revival comes to the hungry that release the Holy Spirit to move and pour out massive blessing.

Tougues is a by product.

The upper room was the deal. Holy Spirit was allowed to take them over.

Someone says "i was taught toungues, and nothing happened"

Its the same with salvation,or faith,or revelation,or dreams and visions.

None of those are mentally taught,they are recieved spiritually.
They are never recieved by satisfied,skeptical,mental believers.

Only "little children" that are hungry,repentant,and want it, need apply
 

Kolistus

Active member
Feb 3, 2020
358
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There were people exercising spiritual gifts before 1901. Just studying the period just prior to it there was speaking in tongues- just one of the gifts. There are many more accounts of healing.
I dont disbelieve this. I believe in the continuation of the gifts, but I would like to ask because it looks like you've already done your homework to provide some quotes from Church Fathers or someone, somewhere, sometime? Could you do it for me brother?
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
5,721
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I dont disbelieve this. I believe in the continuation of the gifts, but I would like to ask because it looks like you've already done your homework to provide some quotes from Church Fathers or someone, somewhere, sometime? Could you do it for me brother?
I believe I posted a link earlier. This is from a quick web search, and is friendly toward Tertullian who was apparently a Montanist. But it's got some good brief quotes. http://evangelicalfocus.com/magazine/240/the_gifts_of_the_spirit_never_left_the_early_church


I read a quote about speaking in tongues at a Methodist revival near the University of Georgia in 1801 in _The New Charismatics, Too. I have also read about a church that experienced speaking in tongues in Maine in the 1870's. The Fire-Baptized Holiness had experiences with that as well, and I have heard there was a little bit of that during the Welsh revival. There was also a healing movement in the 1800's. Those types of meetings started before the Azusa Street revival. Many in the Holiness movement accepted healing.

The New Light Baptists that filled the south and other parts of the country grew out of a congregation that practiced anointing the sick with oil, so it wasn't that contrary to evangelicalism to think that God would heal. Mercy Wheeler had been healed before Sandy Creek was set up. I read a quote about a New Light Baptist speaking in tongues in the early days of that movement, but I don't recall the name of the book a friend quoted out of online.

Spurgeon had got what I might categorize as words of knowledge while he was preaching, looking at people and telling them details about their lives when he was preaching. https://gfmanchester.com/prophecy-in-the-life-of-spurgeon-real-prophecy


This is a quote from a book on Spurgeon, http://docplayer.net/163993550-The-books-of-the-month-the-expository-times-543.html
"At least two prophecies were uttered in regard to this element of his character, and it is remarkable to notice the minuteness with which they were fulfilled. When Spurgeon was ten years old, Rev. Richard Knill visited Stambourne as a deputy from the London Missionary Society. Mr. Knill was pre-eminently a soul-winner, and he was greatly drawn to the boy, with whom he contrived to have a great deal of loving Christian intercourse. Before leaving, Mr. Knill, in presence of the family, took the lad on his knee and said, 'This child will one day preach the gospel, and he will preach it to great multitudes.' Just ten years later he accepted a call to the pastorate of New Park Street Chapel. "
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
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But you believe that if one is not water baptized after believing, he is not saved correct?
Who do the salvation its God...
The practice today..is different from the early church...
In one day 3000 were added to the church and were baptized immediately after believing...and daily afterwards...
Baptism is always in tandem with believing...

In fact even the devil believed and tremble...

Baptism is our confirmation the we believed in the death and resurrectiom of Christ...

Like abraham believes when he-s in the act of offering isaac..
God said...now I know..

In like figure baptism now save us.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
5,506
950
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Who do the salvation its God...
The practice today..is different from the early church...
In one day 3000 were added to the church and were baptized immediately after believing...and daily afterwards...
Baptism is always in tandem with believing...

In fact even the devil believed and tremble...

Baptism is our confirmation the we believed in the death and resurrectiom of Christ...

Like abraham believes when he-s in the act of offering isaac..
God said...now I know..

In like figure baptism now save us.
Thanks for confirming that you believe water baptism is necessary for salvation
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
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Thanks for confirming that you believe water baptism is necessary for salvation
No need to thank... i got it from peter.

1Pe 3:18-21 KJV 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
5,506
950
113
No need to thank... i got it from peter.

1Pe 3:18-21 KJV 18 For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: 19 By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; 20 Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water. 21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:
You consider water baptism as a work correct?

So it follows that this work is a necessary requirement for salvation to you
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
1,931
108
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You consider water baptism as a work correct?

So it follows that this work is a necessary requirement for salvation to you
you can sink all you want under water it will not have an effect...
what happen in baptism is no more than you are believing...
you believe
you get baptize...
again..it is a confirmation that we believed...not to the people but to God..
in the death and resurrection of Christ
 

Kolistus

Active member
Feb 3, 2020
358
183
43
I believe I posted a link earlier. This is from a quick web search, and is friendly toward Tertullian who was apparently a Montanist. But it's got some good brief quotes. http://evangelicalfocus.com/magazine/240/the_gifts_of_the_spirit_never_left_the_early_church
Thanks. As we can see from the witness of the early church, CLEARLY the Spirit was still working, even after the canon was complete.

What is going on with you people suggesting once the canon is complete God wont do anything anymore? Why large chunks of the Bible become irrelevant once the canon is completed?

Quenching the Spirit is all that is.
 
Jan 17, 2020
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Thanks. As we can see from the witness of the early church, CLEARLY the Spirit was still working, even after the canon was complete.

What is going on with you people suggesting once the canon is complete God wont do anything anymore? Why large chunks of the Bible become irrelevant once the canon is completed?

Quenching the Spirit is all that is.
You need some miracles of the same magnitude today if what you say is true.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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You need some miracles of the same magnitude today if what you say is true.
If God did a miracle through someone once every hundred years, He would not rescind His right to do miracles through people.

Have you looked up any of the sources I suggested or done any research to support your assumption?
 
Jan 17, 2020
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If God did a miracle through someone once every hundred years, He would not rescind His right to do miracles through people.

Have you looked up any of the sources I suggested or done any research to support your assumption?
Your resources are not reliable. The Montanists were a heretical cult. Plus you add to scripture making it say what it does not. If you had proof of apostolic signs and wonders, you might prove your point. But even then, God furnished false prophets in the OT with miracles to test people.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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You consider water baptism as a work correct?

So it follows that this work is a necessary requirement for salvation to you
Do I consider baptism as work?
God is the one who is able to save.
Are all saved? NO..
what did you do to get saved?
 

wolfwint

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2014
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Thanks. As we can see from the witness of the early church, CLEARLY the Spirit was still working, even after the canon was complete.

What is going on with you people suggesting once the canon is complete God wont do anything anymore? Why large chunks of the Bible become irrelevant once the canon is completed?

Quenching the Spirit is all that is.
This is not the point. We are talking about the baptism with the Holy Spirit, which is found since 1901, but not before. And the point that this baptism which we talking about was not taught from Paul ore any other biblical writer.
 

watcher2013

Senior Member
Aug 6, 2013
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I followed romans 4:5
So you count baptism as works of rom 4?
You cannot see that believing is just the same as baptism.
Believing..
Messenger preach the gospel
Your part to believe...
God did the works..

Baptism
Baptizer to preach death and resurrection ( doing physical baptism)
Your part to (just dunk in water) you consider that as works?
God did the works...