Why Wasn't A Law Given By Which One Could Be Righteous?

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Mar 14, 2011
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#82
Did they do this only after the covenant and its law or before?
They rebelled before. When it was given however they at first embraced it. They fell really after David’s reign and never really recovered
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#83
Righteousness could be attained under the law by being blameless in walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord, but this was self righteousness not God’s righteousness. God’s righteousness is by the faith of Jesus Christ.
Philippians 3:4 - though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#84
They rebelled before. When it was given however they at first embraced it. They fell really after David’s reign and never really recovered
So is it fair to say He gave a law designed for a rebellious people, to a rebellious people?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
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#85
Philippians 3:4 - though I also might have confidence in the flesh. If anyone else thinks he may have confidence in the flesh, I more so: 5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee; 6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless. 7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ. 8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith.
Romans 10
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
11,729
2,158
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#86
Romans 10
1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
God's righteousness through Jesus Christ vs self righteousness through the law.

Romans 3
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:
23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#87
So is it fair to say He gave a law designed for a rebellious people, to a rebellious people?
Paul explained it
he gave the law so when Christ came they would be prepared to receive him
they misunderstood the law hence they rejected him because it did not train them
 
Feb 9, 2020
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#88
The doctrine I choose to hold about this question, "Why did God had to wait 4000 years, from Adam to the book of Malachi, for Jesus to come in the flesh?" is this:

It was a man—a physical human being—who had been given authority on the earth by God. When man allowed himself to be deceived and when he yielded his power to Satan, he became, in a sense, joint-heirs with the devil. Satan has to work through a human being. Man, through his physical body, gave Satan authority on this earth.

Therefore, it was necessary for a man with a physical body to take back that authority. God had to become man, to give Him the authority to execute judgment on the earth: “And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man” (John 5:27). God cannot break or change His word, so He was restricted to act within the word He had already spoken.

But why did it take 4,000 years? Here is the logic: When God created the first man, He said, “Let us make man in our image” (Gen. 1:26). He literally spoke Adam’s body into existence. At that time, He had the legal right to do that because He had not yet given authority over this earth to man.

However, once He had given that authority to man, He could not leave him out of the equation. The last Adam, Jesus, would still have to be spoken into existence by God, but He would have to speak through man. God was no longer in direct control, and a man would have to become the voice of His words. Psalm 115:16 explains—

The heaven, even the heavens, are the Lord’s: but the earth hath he given to the children of men.

That is a strong statement. In other words, everything outside of the earth belongs to God, but the earth He gave to the children of man. God literally placed restrictions on Himself through His own words. He had to work through people, and there were very few people sensitive enough to hear Him in their hearts and then prophesy what they heard.

God had to create the new Adam through words spoken by someone with a physical body. Galatians 4:4 says, “But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son.” If you study that out, it means at the appropriate moment. Until then, all the prophetic utterances hadn’t been spoken. Jesus could not come onto the scene until everything that had to be said was said.

Hebrews 1:1-2 In the past YAH spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, Whom He appointed Heir of all things, and through Whom also He made the universe.


Hebrews 2:5-10 For He didn't subject the world to come, whereof we speak, to angels. But One has somewhere testified, saying, "What is man, that You think of him? Or the son of man, that You care for him? You made him a little lower than the angels; You crowned him with glory and honor. You have put all things in subjection under his feet." For in that He subjected all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we don't see all things subjected to him, yet. But we see Him who has been made a little lower than the angels, Yeshua, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of YAH He should taste of death for everyone. For it became Him, for Whom are all things, and through Whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the Author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
 
Feb 9, 2020
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#89
The law was specifically to, for and about Yahshua. The law was Yahshua's path to life. The law required Him to give His life as a sacrifice to save us. To be obedient to the highest commandments to love YAH above all, and His neighbor as Himself He had to offer His life in obedience to His Father to save us.

Yahshua is the One Who the promise of life in the law was made to.

The promise of life in the law is in Leviticus 18:4-5. You shall do My ordinances, and You shall keep My statutes, and walk in them: I am the YHVH Your Elohiym. You shall therefore keep My statutes and My ordinances; which if a Man does, He shall live by them: I am YHVH.

Yahshua is the Man Whom the promise of life in the law was made to.

Yahshua's sacrifice was His act of faith in His Father's promise of life in the law if He was obedient in giving His life. He said He had a commandment from His Father that if He laid down His life He would be raised up again. He trusted in the promise.

We put our faith in Him and His sacrifice for forgiveness and life.
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
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#90
Hebrews 1:1-2 In the past YAH spoke to our ancestors through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days He has spoken to us by His Son, Whom He appointed Heir of all things, and through Whom also He made the universe.


Hebrews 2:5-10 For He didn't subject the world to come, whereof we speak, to angels. But One has somewhere testified, saying, "What is man, that You think of him? Or the son of man, that You care for him? You made him a little lower than the angels; You crowned him with glory and honor. You have put all things in subjection under his feet." For in that He subjected all things to him, He left nothing that is not subject to him. But now we don't see all things subjected to him, yet. But we see Him who has been made a little lower than the angels, Yeshua, because of the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that by the grace of YAH He should taste of death for everyone. For it became Him, for Whom are all things, and through Whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the Author of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
how does this scripture add on to what was stated?
 
Feb 9, 2020
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#91
how does this scripture add on to what was stated?
I thought what you said was good. These Scriptures from Hebrews explain it. He was entering His creation as a Man and for our Salvation. All things will be subject to Him. He is the Heir. He defeated death and evil. He is the Eternal Word.

Things you pointed out. Thank you
 

Guojing

Well-known member
Jan 12, 2019
6,740
1,244
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#92
I thought what you said was good. These Scriptures from Hebrews explain it. He was entering His creation as a Man and for our Salvation. All things will be subject to Him. He is the Heir. He defeated death and evil. He is the Eternal Word.

Things you pointed out. Thank you
yes it was such a beautiful plan when I first read it that made perfect sense.

To attribute the source properly , I read that from Andrew Wommack.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#93
The law was Yahshua's path to life.
Jesus is the life. He doesn't need a 'pathway to it' the pathway leads to Him
((re: John 14:6, Galatians 3:24))


the law does not impart life.
((re: Galatians 3:21))
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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#94
He said He had a commandment from His Father that if He laid down His life He would be raised up again.
He said He has power to lay His life down and He has power to take it up again. He said no one takes it from Him, and He said He will raise Himself up in 3 days.
((re: John 10:18, John 2:19))


this isn't the Law. where does the Law say, give up the ghost and then raise yourself?
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
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#95
"The Law" - the Torah, the books of Moses, the law of Moses, the Sinai Covenant, etc
i think we all know what this refers to. no, it's not just the 10 commandments. don't be silly. ((James 2:9-10))



we know that righteousness cannot be attained through the law, neither can life:
I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.
(Galatians 2:21)
Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not!
For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law.
(Galatians 3:21)
a law was given, but it was not one through which righteousness could come, and not one that could give life.
this is puzzling - because the law itself says '
the one who does these things will live by them' ((Leviticus 18:5, Romans 10:5, Galatians 3:12)) - yet by these things, i.e. Torah, no one receives life ((Galatians 2:16, Romans 3:20, Galatians 3:11 etc)).
still, it was given by God, and it is perfect. it was given by God to a specific people at a specific time. ((for more info, read Exodus & Deuteronomy etc))
why? how is this perfect -- how is a law that cannot produce righteousness and cannot give life, the absolute perfect law to be given to this people at this time?


we know too, 'by the law is the knowledge of sin' ((Romans 3:20, 7:7-9 etc)) and 'the law was a schoolmaster' to bring people to Christ ((Galatians 3:24)). so we know some things about the purpose of the law. and we know, 'the letter kills but the Spirit gives life' ((2 Corinthians 3:6)) -- in fact He has made us ministers of a new covenant, 'built on better promises' ((Hebrews 8:6)) -- and the first is 'made obsolete' ((Hebrews 8:13)).

so here is my question ((yay! a question!)), phrased in the form of a few questions, but really it is all one question:

why wasn't the spiritual law given in the first place?
why a Torah of ordinances & statutes & commandments called a '
ministry of death' ((2 Corinthians 3:7)) to go before?
why a law which makes everyone who relies it, under a curse? ((Deuteronomy 27:26, Galatians 3:10))
why require the blood of bulls and goats when it can never take away sin?
why command physical circumcision if it means nothing, but only the circumcision done without human hands is effectual?
why did God give The Law which '
is not of faith' ((Galatians 3:12)) instead of giving faith?
why did grace & truth wait over a thousand years after Moses to come through Jesus Christ ((John 1:17))?
OP question: Why Wasn't A Law Given By Which One Could Be Righteous?

Romans 3:

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
(NOTE: This verse declares Jesus righteous & declares Jesus the justifier of those who believe/have faith in Christ. Not those that follow/keep the law)

27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
(NOTE: "THE LAW OF FAITH")

28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
(NOTE: man is justified = Declared righteous = by "FAITH" without the deeds of the law).

29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also:
(NOTE: He is God of BOTH, Jew & Gentile)

30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.
(NOTE: God will justify = Declared righteous. The circumcision = JEW, by "FAITH". And uncircumcision = GENTILES through "FAITH")

31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law.
(NOTE: If you'll read verse 31 in context. Its the new covenant ""LAW OF FAITH"" that's been established, just "REREAD vs 27".)
 
Feb 9, 2020
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#96
Jesus is the life. He doesn't need a 'pathway to it' the pathway leads to Him
((re: John 14:6, Galatians 3:24))


the law does not impart life.
((re: Galatians 3:21))
the law did impart life to Yahshua because of His obedience in offering His life to save us. Galatians 3:12 quotes the promise of life in the Law.

12 The law is not of faith, but, "The man who does them will live by them." 13 Messiah redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us. For it is written, "Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree,"

Yahshua is "the Man Who does" the law and lives by the law. He was raised by the glory of the Father as Romans 1 tells us because of the promise of life in the law.

Yahshua fulfilled the Law which required a sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. Hebrews explains that.

Psalm 119 is Yahshua's prayer praising the law and asking the Father to raise Him from the dead after giving His life in obedience to the law.
 
Feb 9, 2020
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#97
Here are verses that say the Father raised Yahshua.

Acts 13:30 But God raised him from the dead,

33 that God has fulfilled the same to us, their children, in that he raised up Yeshua. As it is also written in the second psalm, 'You are my Son. Today I have become your father.' 34 "Concerning that he raised him up from the dead, now no more to return to corruption, he has spoken thus: 'I will give you the holy and sure blessings of David.' 35 Therefore he says also in another psalm, 'You will not allow your Holy One to see decay.' 36 For David, after he had in his own generation served the counsel of God, fell asleep, and was laid with his fathers, and saw decay. 37 But he whom God raised up saw no decay. 38 Be it known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man is proclaimed to you remission of sins, 39 and by him everyone who believes is justified from all things, from which you could not be justified by the law of Moshe.

As Paul reveals in this speech. The Psalms are not about David. They are mostly Yahshua's prayers. To understand the relationship between Father and Son and Yahshua's salvation by His obedience to the law, you have to study His prayers in Psalms.
 
Feb 9, 2020
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#98
Romans 6:4 tells us He was raised by the Glory of the Father.

Therefore we are buried with Him by baptism into death: that like as Messiah was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
 
Feb 9, 2020
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#99
Romans 7 tells us the law or commandment was ordained to life and the Law is Life to Messiah because of His obedience to the Law. But the Law is death to us because of our sins. He was raised from the dead because of His obedience to the Law in offering His life as a sacrifice to save us. We are raised from the dead because of our faith in Him for the forgiveness of sins.

4 Therefore, my brothers, you also were made dead to the law through the body of Messiah, that you would be joined to another, to Him Who was raised from the dead, that we might bring forth fruit to God. 5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were through the law, worked in our members to bring forth fruit to death. 6 But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that in which we were held; so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter. 7 What will we say then? Is the law sin? May it never be! However, I wouldn't have known sin, except through the law. For I wouldn't have known coveting, unless the law had said, "You shall not covet." 8 But sin, finding occasion through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of coveting. For apart from the law, sin is dead. 9 I was alive apart from the law once, but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died. 10 The commandment, which was to life, this I found to be to death; 11 for sin, finding occasion through the commandment, deceived me, and through it killed me. 12 So that the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and righteous, and good.
 
Feb 9, 2020
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If you do a Bible search on the word "raised" you will see many verses that say that God or the Father raised Messiah from the dead. Here is another one.

Galatians 1:1 Paul, an apostle, (not of men, neither by man, but by Yahshua Messiah, and God the Father, Who raised Him from the dead;)