WILL THERE BE A RAPTURE?

[nathan3]

i put that already

Paul said
2 Timothy 4:1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;

Jesus said

1. John 6:39
   And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
   John 6:40
2. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
   
3. John 6:44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
   
4. John 6:54Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
   
   John 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
   now make it fit for 1 Thess 4

These verses mean raised into eternal life, after Judgment Day. Remeber to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. This raising up here is in a spiritual sense, talking of overcoming and entering into eternal life... You have to consider all scriptures as a whole.And then rightly divide it into its proper place. simply following the subject, and being familiar with God's overall plan of Salvation. what is written.

Christ raises them up into eternal life at the Last Day. Only Christ can do that... Paul taught of this, of the mortal soul and immortal soul, and the corruptible flesh body, and how , once you die, you have a incorruptible body. 1 cor 15

It does not have to do with, where you go once you die.

 

[GRA]

this one verse proves that there is not a rapture

Rev 20
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.


how can we have a rapture before the first resurrection?

its is impossible to have a rapture.

the first means first.

is the rapture the last day?

Jesus said he will raised the dead on the last day(resurrection)

John 6:39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.

John 6:40
And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:44
No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:54
Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 11:24Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.

the resurrection is when the dead shall be raised.

so when we read what Paul said in 1 Thessalonians

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17

King James Version (KJV)

[SUP]15 [/SUP]For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

[SUP]16 [/SUP]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

(when will they rise? at the last day) the resurrection!

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Jesus is comind to the earth to rule for 1000 years at his 2nd coming. when he return it will be the 1st resurrection.

there is no room for a rapture! if we would even consider a rapture we are talking about a 3rd resurrection

the Lord said first resurrection meaning there is nothing before the first

the Lord said first resurrection meaning there is another after (Judgement day)

where is the room for a rapture?

lets read

Rev 20
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

we have two resurrection in this chapter, where is the rapture?

RAPTURE => 'the first resurrection'

 

[iog]

who will answer the post about the 1st resurrection/

is the rapture before the 1st resurrection or after?

is the rapture before the white thrnes judgement or after?

is the rapture the 2nd coming of Jesus?

which would make the 1st resurrection the 3rd coming of Jesus


or is the resurrection the 2nd coming of Jesus which would make the rapture the 3rd coming of Jesus?

 

[iog]

RAPTURE => 'the first resurrection'

then we should quit this rapture doctrine stuff and call it the resurrection for what it is and teach it the way it suppose to be taught.



there is no secret about it
there is no left behind

it is written and it is calle dthe resurrection!

peace in Jesus

 

[GRA]

...in 1 Thessalonians the dead and alive people met Jesus in the clouds, he did not take them to heaven.

Correct!

 

[nathan3]

I quit posting on this . I will talk about it in chat rooms with voice, but not here any more.

If anything, I will start a new thread once in a while with some scriptures to consider. bye

 

[iog]

These verses mean raised into eternal life, after Judgment Day. Remeber to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord. This raising up here is in a spiritual sense, talking of overcoming and entering into eternal life... You have to consider all scriptures as a whole.And then rightly divide it into its proper place. simply following the subject, and being familiar with God's overall plan of Salvation. what is written.

Christ raises them up into eternal life at the Last Day. Only Christ can do that... Paul taught of this, of the mortal soul and immortal soul, and the corruptible flesh body, and how , once you die, you have a incorruptible body. 1 cor 15

It does not have to do with, where you go once you die.

to be absent from the body is death to be present with the Lord is life

when

 

[GRA]

then we should quit this rapture doctrine stuff and call it like it is and teach it the way it suppose to be taught.

The word 'rapture' is basically just a label for what is described in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17.

 

[GRA]

people dont go to heaven ? ugh, i, im at a lost for words. that whole chapter is about men going to heaven in 1 thess 4, girefffffffffffffffffffffffffff

I believe he is talking strictly about the context of 1 Thessalonians 4 - in which, it is correct - those who "meet the Lord in the air" are not taken to heaven.

 

[iog]

The word 'rapture' is basically just a label for what is described in 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 and 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17.

if so then those people are being decieved. those chapter are strictly about the resurrection and it even says it 1Cor.

the rapture teaching and the resurrection are two completely different teachings

 

[iog]

I believe he is talking strictly about the context of 1 Thessalonians 4 - in which, it is correct - those who "meet the Lord in the air" are not taken to heaven.

the rapture people have been taught that they go to heaven in these verses

its not there

 

[Earlmayknowornot]

Believe what you want to but, I know that God is just and righteous. He never sends His wrath on the people that are trusting and believing in Him. Yes, He will allow things to happen. However the great tribulation is God pouring out His wrath on a sinful world. The rapture will take place before this tribulation. The only thing holding satan back is the Holy Spirit and the Church. Once the church is removed (rapture) then he will make his move. Know ye not that ye are the salt of the earth (preservative).

People, get confused with the rapture, the second coming of Jesus, and the resurrection.

Oh and there is a second rapture of the 144,000 Jews that believe.

Can't wait to see the hate post I get on this one.

 

[iog]

when the Lord returns he will come back to the mount of olive the same place he left 2000 years ago.
he will meet the saints in the cloud and they all will comeback to the earth

lets read
[h=3]Zechariah 14[/h]1 Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.

[SUP]
2 [/SUP]For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women
ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
[SUP]
3 [/SUP]Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
[SUP]
4 [/SUP]And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
[SUP]
5 [/SUP]And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
[SUP]
6 [/SUP]And it shall come to pass in that day, that the light shall not be clear, nor dark:
[SUP]
7 [/SUP]But it shall be one day which shall be known to the Lord, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.
[SUP]
8 [/SUP]And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.
[SUP]
9 [/SUP]And the Lord shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one Lord, and his name one

 

[Blain]

I'm speechless. No wounder, Christ says, All, the world will be deceived. All. The result will be:

Revelation 6:

King James Version (KJV)

15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;

16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

I'm sorry but how am i deceived? And also i will not be in his wrath, i am going to be running into his arms

 

[GRA]

which heaven did the peopel in 1 thess 4 go to?

"the one on earth now that Jesus is here" (context at the second coming) - i.e., they are not "taken" anywhere (away from earth) - "in the clouds" is as far away as they get...

 

[iog]

Believe what you want to but, I know that God is just and righteous. He never sends His wrath on the people that are trusting and believing in Him. Yes, He will allow things to happen. However the great tribulation is God pouring out His wrath on a sinful world. The rapture will take place before this tribulation. The only thing holding satan back is the Holy Spirit and the Church. Once the church is removed (rapture) then he will make his move. Know ye not that ye are the salt of the earth (preservative).


People, get confused with the rapture, the second coming of Jesus, and the resurrection.

Oh and there is a second rapture of the 144,000 Jews that believe.

Can't wait to see the hate post I get on this one.

i beleive what is written!

why dont you post from the bible what you beleive?

right now it sounds that you speak from emotions

 

[iog]

"the one on earth now that Jesus is here" (context at the second coming) - i.e., they are not "taken" anywhere (away from earth) - "in the clouds" is as far away as they get...

Gra

do you see why this topic is always important

because people believe in a doctrine conceived by man and not God

people really think they go to heaven and that there is a rapture but they cannot prove it.

not one person proved that there is a rapture, not one person!

 

[iog]

Believe what you want to but, I know that God is just and righteous. He never sends His wrath on the people that are trusting and believing in Him. Yes, He will allow things to happen. However the great tribulation is God pouring out His wrath on a sinful world. The rapture will take place before this tribulation. The only thing holding satan back is the Holy Spirit and the Church. Once the church is removed (rapture) then he will make his move. Know ye not that ye are the salt of the earth (preservative).

People, get confused with the rapture, the second coming of Jesus, and the resurrection.

Oh and there is a second rapture of the 144,000 Jews that believe.

Can't wait to see the hate post I get on this one.

people are not confused about a resurrection, they are not aware of a resurrection.

there is no need to hate anyone, you beleive what you beleive and you will be one who find out the truth when it happens we all have something in God's word that we need to see first hand when it happens.


you should put the word of God so you can be taken seriously!

 

[GRA]

if so then those people are being decieved. those chapter are strictly about the resurrection and it even says it 1Cor.

the rapture teaching and the resurrection are two completely different teachings

Not if you use the 'minimum' definition of the word 'rapture'.

the rapture people have been taught that they go to heaven in these verses

its not there

Correct!

Yes - it is true that many people incorporate other details not in scripture into the definition of 'rapture' (unfortunately). So, you have to know which definition is being used.

 

[iog]

the Lord with the saints he met in the clouds are coming back to earth
[h=3]Zechariah 14[/h]King James Version (KJV)

1Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
[SUP]2 [/SUP]For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
[SUP]4 [/SUP]And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.

we have the prophet prophesying