Wolves in sheep's Clothing

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A

AuntieAnt

Guest
#21
Well that is a good question. Why is the wolf here? What is it's purpose?

Jesus said:
7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

Isn't Jesus saying the wolf in sheep's clothing "must come"? Why is this? I believe it can be traced back to the Word's of Jesus before He became a man.

Judges 2:21 I also will not henceforth drive out any from before them of the nations which Joshua left when he died:22 That through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk therein, as their fathers did keep it, or not.
23 Therefore the LORD left those nations, without driving them out hastily; neither delivered he them into the hand of Joshua.

Wouldn't these nations be Spiritually the religions around us, our rebellious thoughts, doctrines and traditions of men? Remember, Jesus specifically warned of a specific people who were are to "take heed of". Would these people not also be "wolf in sheep's clothing"?

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

These "Many" who come in Christ's name, who preach that Jesus is truly the Christ, who lie about God (deceive means to trick someone into believing something that isn't true) would they not be considered a wolf in sheep's clothing?

2 Cor. 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Wouldn't these also be called "wolves in sheep's clothing".

It seems Jesus knows they must be here to test His people to see if they are faithful to Him or not.

That could be their purpose, yes?

Or just that God loves the lost and wants to open their eyes and He uses surrendered sheep to accomplish that.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#22
Yes I get that.

But what is their purpose?
Why do it?

If they genuinely believe they are preaching Christ to help others grow in Christ are they wolves?

I believe that some are deceived themselves; and all are either knowingly or unknowingly used by Satan.
 

BillG

Senior Member
Feb 15, 2017
8,879
4,334
113
#23
I believe that some are deceived themselves; and all are either knowingly or unknowingly used by Satan.
Thanks for responding.

But can I ask?

If someone is decieved then are they not decieved in their own mind?
To them it's truth.
 
J

joefizz

Guest
#24
I everyone.

The following may be silly questions but I want to ask as I am a little confused.

Who are wolves?
What do they do?

From my previous reading on it is that wolves as talked about in the N.T. are those out for personal gain.

So my question is

"Are wolves just out for personal gain?
Or are wolves people whose doctrine is incorrect and they continue to preach it.

Simple example, baptism saves and baptism does not save.

I have posted a few verses.

Matthew 7:15-16
You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?

Romans 16:17-18
Avoid Divisive Persons
17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.

Acts 20:29-31
29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

When Jesus says ravenous the Greek meaning is basically a extortioner or a robber. This I think off material stuff.
Paul mentions belly. Which he also mentions in

Philippians 3:19
19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.

Peter says

2 Peter 2:3
3 In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

So are wolves out to gain personally or are they those who we perceive to be doctrinally errant or teaching heresy or are they a combination?

Who do I just dismiss and why, who do still walk with and why, who do I call out and why?

To be honest there are some threads that I don't respond to anymore because there comes a point where there is no point.
Not because I think the intent is for personal gain but because I believe doctrinally they are wrong and there is no shifting.

And some may reciprocate with me.

Thanks

Bill
Great topic bill,the term "inwardly they are ravenous wolves" to me clarifies that the wolves in question are those who "desire to be heard" but not "challenged" like a wolf pack there is always one who is the leader according to "Strength" and "Intimidation" and so when challenged they try "viciously" to be unchallenged again,I think that's what it means,because as the scriptures point out many "couldn't withstand" simply "hearing" a different gospel or doctrine or worse yet "losing followers" or "members" from said gospel or doctrine,like with Jesus,particularly many couldn't stand "conviction" either and so they "did whatever they could" to "condemn such people" such as Jesus through some "fault" even if there wasn't any because it "pained them".
 
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A

Ariel82

Guest
#25
As you Judge so will you be judged?

That's part of my struggle here.
Did Jesus judge others here on earth?
Did the apostles?
He judged people but didn't condemn them.he taught them God's truth and His ways.

He still does via the Holy spirit....he tells us when we sin and fall short and shows us a better way and even why it's important if we pray and ask Him.
 
A

AuntieAnt

Guest
#26
Thanks for responding.

But can I ask?

If someone is decieved then are they not decieved in their own mind?
To them it's truth.
Yes, they are deceived in their own mind. They are walking according to their own understanding (flesh).

Yes, they believe their religious strategy or philosophy is the truth.

Yes, we are to avoid those who attack the sheep and debate and condemn others who don't agree with them.

No, we are not to continue to strive with them, debate with them and try to change their mind because it is a spiritual battle. We are told to be wise as serpants around them but gentle as doves. Also, pray for them to see the truth.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#27
Jesus warns of tares among the wheat [unbelievers in the church].

Matt 24:24
For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
KJV



if it were possible This use of the subjunctive indicates that it is NOT possible.
Call me "Captain Obvious," but a wolf is a wolf and a tare is a weed.

Wolves come in to devour. Tares are just weeds that look exactly like wheat, except you don't want to eat it because it's poisonous. Considering the idea isn't to eat each other, most are fairly safe with tares. The only real problem is they soak up the moisture and nutrition in the soil thus stunting growth of the real grain.

Wolves are those that are trying to steal the lambs. Bluto mentioned WoF, and I agree with that, but no less so than those who would have us believe in Catholicism saves, JW is the Way, Mormonism is the right way, and, one I saw recently, "Pentacostalism, since you can't be saved unless you have "the indwelling of the Holy Spirit" AFTER being saved. There really is active recruiters coming in to teach a different way, and wearing the wool of sheep.

Tares? Tares are the folks who think they're born Christians or raised Christians. They assume we're all the same, so don't try to recruit out of the church. They think they are the church.

Wolves require a rifle. Tares require the gospel. Not much we can do about tares, because you really can't tell if someone is tare or backslider. (The literal tares are only exposed at winnowing stage. The grain reacts differently to being winnowed, so you know which is grain fruit and which is weed fruit.)
 

graceNpeace

Senior Member
Aug 12, 2016
2,180
107
63
#28
Wolves seek to devour the sheep. Bad shepherds smite the flock and scatter them.

Wolves bad sheep good. Good shepherd protects the flock bad shepherds scatter the flock.

Wolves modern day would be Islam or in times past the Roman Catholic church. Killing those who name the name of Christ because they name the name of Christ.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
Wolves are in sheep's clothing remember - not Moslems or the RCC at all (no sheep's clothing).
The wolves are in the congregations not outside....
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,444
12,919
113
#29
Wolves modern day would be Islam or in times past the Roman Catholic church.
Islam and Muslims would not be among the wolves, but simply enemies of the Gospel, Christ, and Christians. Even the RCC is distinct from Protestant and evangelical churches, so they cannot do much harm internally.

The wolves are those who can -- and do -- enter into local churches (and today via radio, television, and internet into Christian homes and vehicles) pretending to be sheep but bent on "devouring" the flock either by financial extortion, or by planting false doctrines and causing divisions. The best examples are Word of Faith and Hyper Grace preachers who cleverly mix truth with error so that unwary sheep are confused.

They also preach the Prosperity Gospel but extort money from gullible Christians so that they can become personally wealthy on their backs. We also have the wolves of the Emergent Church Movement as well as theological liberals coming out of seminaries and attacking the Bible and the doctrines of Christianity. All false teachers, false apostles, and false prophets are wolves. The NAR (New Apostolic Reformation), the Dominionist Movement, and the Latter Rain groups can also be included.
 
A

AuntieAnt

Guest
#30
If anyone knows and is a friend of the Shepherd, is familiar with His nature, recognizes His Voice above their own understanding, and reflects His same gentle, humble, loving character, that person is a sheep whom God uses to bring others into His flock. The lost in this world are drawn to Christ in them.

If anyone uses the scripture to bully, accuse and condemn those sheep who don't follow the same religious philosophies and rules they do, that person is a wolf in sheep's clothing. They do not resemble Christ Jesus and the lost in this world are repelled by them.
 

MarcR

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2015
5,486
183
63
#31
Thanks for responding.

But can I ask?

If someone is decieved then are they not decieved in their own mind?
To them it's truth.
IMO followers of Jesus include both believers and seekers.

If a person deceives a seeker or causes a believer to be either ineffective or less effective in his/her walk with the Lord; that person is a wolf. If the wolf poses as a believer he/she is a wolf in sheep's clothing.

Believing a deception does not make it less of a deception. A wolf can be a wolf unwittingly.
 

KALYNA18

Senior Member
Oct 25, 2016
1,672
359
83
#33
Well that is a good question. Why is the wolf here? What is it's purpose?

Jesus said:
7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh!

Isn't Jesus saying the wolf in sheep's clothing "must come"? Why is this? I believe it can be traced back to the Word's of Jesus before He became a man.

Judges 2:21 I also will not henceforth drive out any from before them of the nations which Joshua left when he died:22 That through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk therein, as their fathers did keep it, or not.
23 Therefore the LORD left those nations, without driving them out hastily; neither delivered he them into the hand of Joshua.

Wouldn't these nations be Spiritually the religions around us, our rebellious thoughts, doctrines and traditions of men? Remember, Jesus specifically warned of a specific people who were are to "take heed of". Would these people not also be "wolf in sheep's clothing"?

Matt. 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.

These "Many" who come in Christ's name, who preach that Jesus is truly the Christ, who lie about God (deceive means to trick someone into believing something that isn't true) would they not be considered a wolf in sheep's clothing?

2 Cor. 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

Wouldn't these also be called "wolves in sheep's clothing".

It seems Jesus knows they must be here to test His people to see if they are faithful to Him or not.
That could be their purpose, yes?​
Since God created all things, and said all was good, I don't believe he's using the wolf as an image of destruction, in total. Wolves are intelligent, leaders, strong protective of their pack, have strong endurance, and mate for life, and many other qualities. HOW ever, when it comes to getting something like meat they can become extremely aggressive. This character is not Christ like, as he said, were to be gentle with all men. Back biters, snake bites, as Jesus called some you brood of vipers. Yes there are the wolves in sheep's clothing, extremely AGGRESSIVE and stay away from such. They when are in a frenzy state of aggression, as to get their meals, will even turn on their own. A study of their behaviors is worth studying, as many parables using his creatures, for examples, such as the ant. { Take a lesson from the ant, they gather their food in the summer, for the winter. such a small creature, yet wise.} Bible verse.
 

Lewiz

Senior Member
Mar 11, 2018
346
22
18
#34
I everyone.

The following may be silly questions but I want to ask as I am a little confused.

Who are wolves?
What do they do?

From my previous reading on it is that wolves as talked about in the N.T. are those out for personal gain.

So my question is

"Are wolves just out for personal gain?
Or are wolves people whose doctrine is incorrect and they continue to preach it.

Simple example, baptism saves and baptism does not save.

I have posted a few verses.

Matthew 7:15-16
You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?

Romans 16:17-18
Avoid Divisive Persons
17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.

Acts 20:29-31
29 For I know this, that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 Also from among yourselves men will rise up, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. 31 Therefore watch, and remember that for three years I did not cease to warn everyone night and day with tears.

When Jesus says ravenous the Greek meaning is basically a extortioner or a robber. This I think off material stuff.
Paul mentions belly. Which he also mentions in

Philippians 3:19
19 whose end is destruction, whose god is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame—who set their mind on earthly things.

Peter says

2 Peter 2:3
3 In their greed they will make up clever lies to get hold of your money. But God condemned them long ago, and their destruction will not be delayed.

So are wolves out to gain personally or are they those who we perceive to be doctrinally errant or teaching heresy or are they a combination?

Who do I just dismiss and why, who do still walk with and why, who do I call out and why?

To be honest there are some threads that I don't respond to anymore because there comes a point where there is no point.
Not because I think the intent is for personal gain but because I believe doctrinally they are wrong and there is no shifting.

And some may reciprocate with me.

Thanks

Bill
Hi Bill,

Maybe this will help.
John 8:38-44 (KJV)
[SUP]38 [/SUP] I speak that which I have seen with my Father: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father. [SUP]39 [/SUP] They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. [SUP]40 [/SUP] But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham. [SUP]41 [/SUP] Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God. [SUP]42 [/SUP] Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. [SUP]43 [/SUP] Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word. [SUP]44 [/SUP]
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Satan comes to steal, kill, and destroy. His children are no different. Steal your salvation, kill you spiritually, destroy you as a child of God. Satan has no rules to obey, so he will do everything he can as well as through his children.
 

joaniemarie

Senior Member
Jan 4, 2017
3,198
303
83
#35



One could say that the Baptist religion has wolves, the Pentecostal religion has wolves in it. All denominations have wolves in it so we could pick the one that we disagree with the most and call them "wolves" for sure..
:rolleyes:


Wolves and false teachers are those that try to get us to rely on what we do instead of what Jesus has done in His finished work.
 
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D

Depleted

Guest
#36
He judged people but didn't condemn them.he taught them God's truth and His ways.

He still does via the Holy spirit....he tells us when we sin and fall short and shows us a better way and even why it's important if we pray and ask Him.
Oh, Jesus judged plenty even on earth. He pushed some away. ("You vipers. Den of theives.") He made sure most walked away. ("Eat my body. Drink my blood.") Four asked him how to be saved, yet he only answered one fully. Jesus judged constantly, and properly.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#37
Since God created all things, and said all was good, I don't believe he's using the wolf as an image of destruction, in total. Wolves are intelligent, leaders, strong protective of their pack, have strong endurance, and mate for life, and many other qualities. HOW ever, when it comes to getting something like meat they can become extremely aggressive. This character is not Christ like, as he said, were to be gentle with all men. Back biters, snake bites, as Jesus called some you brood of vipers. Yes there are the wolves in sheep's clothing, extremely AGGRESSIVE and stay away from such. They when are in a frenzy state of aggression, as to get their meals, will even turn on their own. A study of their behaviors is worth studying, as many parables using his creatures, for examples, such as the ant. { Take a lesson from the ant, they gather their food in the summer, for the winter. such a small creature, yet wise.} Bible verse.[/CENTER]
When God said "it is good," the wolves laid down with sheep. The Fall removed creation from "good." We haven't been "good" naturally since before Adam and Eve became parents. And, you betcha. We need to be on guard from wolves.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
#38



One could say that the Baptist religion has wolves, the Pentecostal religion has wolves in it. All denominations have wolves in it so we could pick the one that we disagree with the most and call them "wolves" for sure..
:rolleyes:


Wolves and false teachers are those that try to get us to rely on what we do instead of what Jesus has done in His finished work.
...or try and tell us that Jesus' finished work is to do our will.
 

DJ2

Senior Member
Apr 15, 2017
1,660
57
48
#39
The wolf does not care that he is a wolf. A wolf in sheep's clothing is not an accident or misunderstanding it is a strategy of Satan. He does not come to play nice, he comes to kill. There are many in the church who are out to weaken the body not secure it. The greatest and most obvious threats are those who wish the church to bend to the modern culture, to accept the sensibilities and norms of the homosexual and liberal world. To exchange truth for peace, to barter away the word of God for money and attendance.

The wolf wears a $3,000 Armani suit, drives a $250,000 Bentley and lives in a $15,000,000 mansion. The wolf likes being a wolf. Wolves love to steal a sheep but they live on the meat of goats.