Woman can't teach in the congregation
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I’m glad you support that women can teach and preach!
But Trofimus is a long time member, and is pretty adept at Greek! Except apostrophe, of course!
You used to be able to see join dates, which would have show you Trofimus has been here a long time, much longer than you!
I am also quite certain he is saved, if his consistent posting about Jesus is any indicator. So, not a troll, and saved!
Do I agree with him on this issue? Not at all. His exegesis is faulty, and pulling verses out of context, to say nothing of the dearth of verses which say women can’t preach, and Paul’s commendation of women teachers and deacons, as well as apostles, like Priscilla, Phoebe and Julia. The list is long! That is only 3 prominent examples.
But I agree with him on many other issues. So please don’t call my friend a troll who is not saved. I believe God uses women in ministry. I know how much he uses me! I preach and teach in my church, and now God is raising up a new generation of women preachers! But, in spite of my personal investment in this issue, I don’t think it is salvic, and certainly name calling is not appropriate!
But Trofimus is a long time member, and is pretty adept at Greek! Except apostrophe, of course!
You used to be able to see join dates, which would have show you Trofimus has been here a long time, much longer than you!
I am also quite certain he is saved, if his consistent posting about Jesus is any indicator. So, not a troll, and saved!
Do I agree with him on this issue? Not at all. His exegesis is faulty, and pulling verses out of context, to say nothing of the dearth of verses which say women can’t preach, and Paul’s commendation of women teachers and deacons, as well as apostles, like Priscilla, Phoebe and Julia. The list is long! That is only 3 prominent examples.
But I agree with him on many other issues. So please don’t call my friend a troll who is not saved. I believe God uses women in ministry. I know how much he uses me! I preach and teach in my church, and now God is raising up a new generation of women preachers! But, in spite of my personal investment in this issue, I don’t think it is salvic, and certainly name calling is not appropriate!
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It would be great! Great! If the supporters of people who speak rudely to new members were to defend new members and remind old time members to mind their tongue.
Longevity is no indicator. I know someone personally who is an atheist and they troll Christian forums as a hobby. One site for over 10 years with posts in the tens of thousands.
The level of acuity in scripture rises in those who read the word and do not interject their own prejudices so as to then interpolate the word. Maturity in Christ and in experience in this life is exampled in those who can speak maturely even defending an errant point. Or in interpolating scripture by interjecting their own prejudices.
Trolls are trolls. If a troll behavior doesn't want to be spoken of , troll behavior shouldn't be seen so as to warrant discussion.
One post in this thread says what amounts to, rude remarks and pejoratives are to be expected when discussing the Bible in the Bible forum.
That's nothing to brag about.
Maybe the problem is people here don't know the definition of Troll.
Longevity is no indicator. I know someone personally who is an atheist and they troll Christian forums as a hobby. One site for over 10 years with posts in the tens of thousands.
The level of acuity in scripture rises in those who read the word and do not interject their own prejudices so as to then interpolate the word. Maturity in Christ and in experience in this life is exampled in those who can speak maturely even defending an errant point. Or in interpolating scripture by interjecting their own prejudices.
Trolls are trolls. If a troll behavior doesn't want to be spoken of , troll behavior shouldn't be seen so as to warrant discussion.
One post in this thread says what amounts to, rude remarks and pejoratives are to be expected when discussing the Bible in the Bible forum.
That's nothing to brag about.
Maybe the problem is people here don't know the definition of Troll.
We can talk more about apostrofé, if you wish 
Because "your turnings from will be to your husband", even though technically right, is not a good translation at all.
It must be interpreted, what "turning" means. And I think that "submission" as lord Brenton translated is a fitting one.
Supported by Jerome and his "under power" translation, too.
And, third, supported by Paul (indirectly) when he said that it (submission) is what also the law says...
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Even though I do not agree with women leading or teching in churches or at homes, I acknowledge that it is today´s reality. I respect your knowlege and I am sure you are able to lead many men right.
I also think that many men are unable to do it.
I just do not think that the general order of things is about extraordinary cases. The given order is patriarchal.
Because "your turnings from will be to your husband", even though technically right, is not a good translation at all.
It must be interpreted, what "turning" means. And I think that "submission" as lord Brenton translated is a fitting one.
Supported by Jerome and his "under power" translation, too.
And, third, supported by Paul (indirectly) when he said that it (submission) is what also the law says...
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Even though I do not agree with women leading or teching in churches or at homes, I acknowledge that it is today´s reality. I respect your knowlege and I am sure you are able to lead many men right.
I also think that many men are unable to do it.
I just do not think that the general order of things is about extraordinary cases. The given order is patriarchal.
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Bravo!
If you think about it, how far would a discussion of any sort in a forum go if everyone agreed on what God said once and for all?
God has never said he will not call a woman to preach. Or that a woman is forbidden to deliver his Salvation teaching so that those who are called may respond and be healed and saved. Not once. It isn't in scripture. However, a forum keeps itself busy if people assume the antagonist position concerning any Biblical truth.
Look around the Internet and you'll see every Christian forum has the topics that are many pages long and full of the antagonist protagonist see-saw effect.
Those that allow rude ignorant offensive people in insure that model keeps on. Those that don't are slow, less busy.
It's a business model.
And then there are of course the prejudice who create a god in their image and likeness. The extrapolate scripture and interpolate so as to prove their point. That their god thinks just like they do.
There's a site that claims itself to be pro-gay and Christian. They claim the Bible never actually condemns their behaviors. Someone associated with such a place even had a book published that brazenly interpolated the so called clobber verses in the Old Testament. They even corrupted Paul's writings in the new wherein he warns that the immoral will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
But remember, Jesus said that is within.
They called the book the queen James b--le. It's not worthy of the full word being spelled out.
There are all kinds in the world brother. Some are here to lead us to righteousness. And surprise! They're women! Because God isn't a bigot. Some are here to make us laugh. Think. Or, serve as a warning.
Live the laughter. B U . There is only right now. And God loves you. And me too.
If you think about it, how far would a discussion of any sort in a forum go if everyone agreed on what God said once and for all?
God has never said he will not call a woman to preach. Or that a woman is forbidden to deliver his Salvation teaching so that those who are called may respond and be healed and saved. Not once. It isn't in scripture. However, a forum keeps itself busy if people assume the antagonist position concerning any Biblical truth.
Look around the Internet and you'll see every Christian forum has the topics that are many pages long and full of the antagonist protagonist see-saw effect.
Those that allow rude ignorant offensive people in insure that model keeps on. Those that don't are slow, less busy.
It's a business model.
And then there are of course the prejudice who create a god in their image and likeness. The extrapolate scripture and interpolate so as to prove their point. That their god thinks just like they do.
There's a site that claims itself to be pro-gay and Christian. They claim the Bible never actually condemns their behaviors. Someone associated with such a place even had a book published that brazenly interpolated the so called clobber verses in the Old Testament. They even corrupted Paul's writings in the new wherein he warns that the immoral will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
But remember, Jesus said that is within.
They called the book the queen James b--le. It's not worthy of the full word being spelled out.
There are all kinds in the world brother. Some are here to lead us to righteousness. And surprise! They're women! Because God isn't a bigot. Some are here to make us laugh. Think. Or, serve as a warning.
Live the laughter. B U . There is only right now. And God loves you.
And me too.-
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I glanced at this article and decided that it is not worth reading. Why?
It has a sub-heading WHICH IS A LIE. And lies come from the Devil.
Here is what that sub-heading says : "Not one scripture that forbids women pastors or preachers"
And here is the Scripture which disproves and debunks that statement:
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. (1 Tim 2:11,12)
When people lie about what is actually in Scripture, we should reject anything else they may have to say. The above words are plain and simple, and everyone can understand exactly what they mean.
To be perfectly blunt, it is Satan who is promoting the idea that Christian women can disregard this command. Therefore those who so do are IN REBELLION. And Scripture says that rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft (1 Sam 15:23). So this is a very serious matter.
It has a sub-heading WHICH IS A LIE. And lies come from the Devil.
Here is what that sub-heading says : "Not one scripture that forbids women pastors or preachers"
And here is the Scripture which disproves and debunks that statement:
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. (1 Tim 2:11,12)
When people lie about what is actually in Scripture, we should reject anything else they may have to say. The above words are plain and simple, and everyone can understand exactly what they mean.
To be perfectly blunt, it is Satan who is promoting the idea that Christian women can disregard this command. Therefore those who so do are IN REBELLION. And Scripture says that rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft (1 Sam 15:23). So this is a very serious matter.
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True. Lies are from the Devil. And the lie that women can't be called by God to preach is the most bold outrageous disgusting lie he's ever hoped to lead people to believe. But unfortunately, some follow the Devil and insist contrary to God's word, that women will never be called by God to preach.
I can't feel sorry for that kind of people. They're false. And when there are countless women who preach and help the lost find their way to Christ , they're also deeply lost in their own prejudices. Which are sins! Rather than insist God discriminates against women, such people should ask God's forgiveness for putting their failings onto his image and likeness. While they still have time to repent and be saved.
A woman said this. And I'm a boss. Ewwwww! Imagine. A woman who owns her own company and tells men what to do.
And all glory goes to God! That's my business model and anthem.
I can't feel sorry for that kind of people. They're false. And when there are countless women who preach and help the lost find their way to Christ , they're also deeply lost in their own prejudices. Which are sins! Rather than insist God discriminates against women, such people should ask God's forgiveness for putting their failings onto his image and likeness. While they still have time to repent and be saved.
A woman said this.
And I'm a boss. Ewwwww! Imagine. A woman who owns her own company and tells men what to do. And all glory goes to God! That's my business model and anthem.
Bravo!
If you think about it, how far would a discussion of any sort in a forum go if everyone agreed on what God said once and for all?
God has never said he will not call a woman to preach. Or that a woman is forbidden to deliver his Salvation teaching so that those who are called may respond and be healed and saved. Not once. It isn't in scripture. However, a forum keeps itself busy if people assume the antagonist position concerning any Biblical truth.
Look around the Internet and you'll see every Christian forum has the topics that are many pages long and full of the antagonist protagonist see-saw effect.
Those that allow rude ignorant offensive people in insure that model keeps on. Those that don't are slow, less busy.
It's a business model.
And then there are of course the prejudice who create a god in their image and likeness. The extrapolate scripture and interpolate so as to prove their point. That their god thinks just like they do.
There's a site that claims itself to be pro-gay and Christian. They claim the Bible never actually condemns their behaviors. Someone associated with such a place even had a book published that brazenly interpolated the so called clobber verses in the Old Testament. They even corrupted Paul's writings in the new wherein he warns that the immoral will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
But remember, Jesus said that is within.
They called the book the queen James b--le. It's not worthy of the full word being spelled out.
There are all kinds in the world brother. Some are here to lead us to righteousness. And surprise! They're women! Because God isn't a bigot. Some are here to make us laugh. Think. Or, serve as a warning.
Live the laughter. B U . There is only right now. And God loves you. And me too.
If you think about it, how far would a discussion of any sort in a forum go if everyone agreed on what God said once and for all?
God has never said he will not call a woman to preach. Or that a woman is forbidden to deliver his Salvation teaching so that those who are called may respond and be healed and saved. Not once. It isn't in scripture. However, a forum keeps itself busy if people assume the antagonist position concerning any Biblical truth.
Look around the Internet and you'll see every Christian forum has the topics that are many pages long and full of the antagonist protagonist see-saw effect.
Those that allow rude ignorant offensive people in insure that model keeps on. Those that don't are slow, less busy.
It's a business model.
And then there are of course the prejudice who create a god in their image and likeness. The extrapolate scripture and interpolate so as to prove their point. That their god thinks just like they do.
There's a site that claims itself to be pro-gay and Christian. They claim the Bible never actually condemns their behaviors. Someone associated with such a place even had a book published that brazenly interpolated the so called clobber verses in the Old Testament. They even corrupted Paul's writings in the new wherein he warns that the immoral will not enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
But remember, Jesus said that is within.
They called the book the queen James b--le. It's not worthy of the full word being spelled out.
There are all kinds in the world brother. Some are here to lead us to righteousness. And surprise! They're women! Because God isn't a bigot. Some are here to make us laugh. Think. Or, serve as a warning.
Live the laughter. B U . There is only right now. And God loves you.
And me too.
Remember also, that element in the world that argues women cannot shepherd people to find Christ and redemption and eternal life in Salvation are hoping to tell women who happen on threads like this that message. Belittling women in order to tell them and those women pastors who may be reading that they're not genuine in God's service. That's a lie.
Shared with permission.
Strong's Concordance
Original Word: ποιμήν, ένος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: poimén
Phonetic Spelling: (poy-mane')
Short Definition: a shepherd
Definition: a shepherd; hence met: of the feeder, protector, and ruler of a flock of men.
HELPS Word-studies
4166 poimḗn – properly, a shepherd ("pastor" in Latin); (figuratively) someone who the Lord raises up to care for the total well-being of His flock (the people of the Lord).
[4166 (poimḗn) is closely associated with 1066 /Gedeṓn ("to feed the flock"), see Jn 21:15-17.]
Women in Church History
WOMEN PASTORS IN THE EARLY CHURCH
The meaning of the New Testament word "pastor" is "shepherd," and so we think of pastors as leaders who tend a flock. Psalm 23 speaks of the Lord as our Shepherd, teaching, leading, guiding and providing for us. Jesus called Himself the Good Shepherd, setting a model for all true spiritual leaders who lay down their lives for the sheep. When Jesus called Peter the second time after His resurrection, He asked him to "feed my sheep." Thus, pastors are to nurture people and help them to grow.
While the New Testament does not tell us specifically what pastors did, we do know that both men and women provided spiritual leadership for churches which met in their homes. In the early church, almost all Christian meetings were held in private homes. Among these house-church pastors was Mary, the mother of John Mark, who later became a missionary with the apostles Paul and Barnabas. It was to her house church that Peter came in Acts 12:12 after an angelic visitor set him free from prison. The Bible says that many had assembled there and were praying, no doubt petitioning God for Peter's release. Their prayers were answered!
Another house church leader was Chloe, according to I. Corinthians 1:11. In that passage, Paul relates that "some of Chloe's household " had reported that there was strife among the Corinthian Christians. Those Chloe sent with this message to Paul were probably Christians who were members of her house church. They may have been relatives or household servants, or they may have been Christians who lives in the area and gathered at her home for worship. These believers would have come under Chloe's spiritual guidance, care and protection. But Chloe's influence extended beyond her own flock. Evidently, she had sent a deputation from her house church to Paul, who knew her or knew of her, to inform him of the need for correction in the Corinthian church. She was a trusted leader and source of reliable information for the apostle Paul.
Acts 16:14-15, 40 tells us about Lydia, Paul's first European convert to Jesus, who offered Paul hospitality in her home. Scripture relates that when Lydia was converted, her entire household was baptized and that her home became the first meeting place for European Christians. Lydia was a business woman who traded in valuable, dyed garments. The fact that Scripture mentions no husband or father indicates the high prominence of this woman. Since first-century Greek and Roman women were almost always under the legal guardianship of a husband or father, Lydia may well have been a wealthy widow or only daughter who inherited her parents' estate. Thus, she became the head of her own household. She either managed the family business or developed a business of her own after her husband's or father's death.
The Book of Acts says that Lydia's entire household was baptized upon her conversion to Christ. This follows the custom of ancient Roman families. Under paganism, household gods were believed to protect and help the family and its enterprises. Thus, it was the duty of members of these households, relatives, slaves, and their families to worship the gods adopted by the head of the household.
Roman households were often large since almost all businesses were home-based before the industrial age. Those who worked for Lydia in her business, and possibly others engaging in the trade who belonged to the dye-makers guild, would have been among her converts. By virtue of her position as head of household, Lydia had the opportunity and responsibility to lead all of its members to Christ and then to establish and lead them in the faith. This put her in a similar position to the modern-day pastor. To fulfill part of this responsibility, Lydia invited Paul to come and preach in her home.
Paul and Silas established their gospel mission headquarters in Lydia's house and no doubt preached there regularly. After their release from prison, Scripture tells us that they returned to Lydia's and, having met with the brethren, exhorted them. This may have been the first church planted on European soil, and its pastor was a woman.
Another New Testament woman who led a house church was Nympha (Col. 4:15). Paul sent greetings to her and to the church at her house. Some modern scholars try to get around this by saying that Nympha was "just" the hostess, not the pastor. If that were so, who did pastor her house church, and why would Paul so rudely fail to greet the pastor as well as the hostess?
Full Article Continues Here
Shared with permission.
Strong's Concordance
Original Word: ποιμήν, ένος, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: poimén
Phonetic Spelling: (poy-mane')
Short Definition: a shepherd
Definition: a shepherd; hence met: of the feeder, protector, and ruler of a flock of men.
HELPS Word-studies
4166 poimḗn – properly, a shepherd ("pastor" in Latin); (figuratively) someone who the Lord raises up to care for the total well-being of His flock (the people of the Lord).
[4166 (poimḗn) is closely associated with 1066 /Gedeṓn ("to feed the flock"), see Jn 21:15-17.]
Women in Church History
WOMEN PASTORS IN THE EARLY CHURCH
by Rev. Kathryn Riss
The New Testament says very little about pastors. In fact, as a term for ministers, the word (poimen) appears only once in Ephesians 4:11. While the word is familiar to use from modern usage, we are uncertain as to the exact role of pastors in the New Testament or how they functioned in relation to elders, bishops and other leaders. Probably all these roles were fluid, being in the formative stages.The meaning of the New Testament word "pastor" is "shepherd," and so we think of pastors as leaders who tend a flock. Psalm 23 speaks of the Lord as our Shepherd, teaching, leading, guiding and providing for us. Jesus called Himself the Good Shepherd, setting a model for all true spiritual leaders who lay down their lives for the sheep. When Jesus called Peter the second time after His resurrection, He asked him to "feed my sheep." Thus, pastors are to nurture people and help them to grow.
While the New Testament does not tell us specifically what pastors did, we do know that both men and women provided spiritual leadership for churches which met in their homes. In the early church, almost all Christian meetings were held in private homes. Among these house-church pastors was Mary, the mother of John Mark, who later became a missionary with the apostles Paul and Barnabas. It was to her house church that Peter came in Acts 12:12 after an angelic visitor set him free from prison. The Bible says that many had assembled there and were praying, no doubt petitioning God for Peter's release. Their prayers were answered!
Another house church leader was Chloe, according to I. Corinthians 1:11. In that passage, Paul relates that "some of Chloe's household " had reported that there was strife among the Corinthian Christians. Those Chloe sent with this message to Paul were probably Christians who were members of her house church. They may have been relatives or household servants, or they may have been Christians who lives in the area and gathered at her home for worship. These believers would have come under Chloe's spiritual guidance, care and protection. But Chloe's influence extended beyond her own flock. Evidently, she had sent a deputation from her house church to Paul, who knew her or knew of her, to inform him of the need for correction in the Corinthian church. She was a trusted leader and source of reliable information for the apostle Paul.
Acts 16:14-15, 40 tells us about Lydia, Paul's first European convert to Jesus, who offered Paul hospitality in her home. Scripture relates that when Lydia was converted, her entire household was baptized and that her home became the first meeting place for European Christians. Lydia was a business woman who traded in valuable, dyed garments. The fact that Scripture mentions no husband or father indicates the high prominence of this woman. Since first-century Greek and Roman women were almost always under the legal guardianship of a husband or father, Lydia may well have been a wealthy widow or only daughter who inherited her parents' estate. Thus, she became the head of her own household. She either managed the family business or developed a business of her own after her husband's or father's death.
The Book of Acts says that Lydia's entire household was baptized upon her conversion to Christ. This follows the custom of ancient Roman families. Under paganism, household gods were believed to protect and help the family and its enterprises. Thus, it was the duty of members of these households, relatives, slaves, and their families to worship the gods adopted by the head of the household.
Roman households were often large since almost all businesses were home-based before the industrial age. Those who worked for Lydia in her business, and possibly others engaging in the trade who belonged to the dye-makers guild, would have been among her converts. By virtue of her position as head of household, Lydia had the opportunity and responsibility to lead all of its members to Christ and then to establish and lead them in the faith. This put her in a similar position to the modern-day pastor. To fulfill part of this responsibility, Lydia invited Paul to come and preach in her home.
Paul and Silas established their gospel mission headquarters in Lydia's house and no doubt preached there regularly. After their release from prison, Scripture tells us that they returned to Lydia's and, having met with the brethren, exhorted them. This may have been the first church planted on European soil, and its pastor was a woman.
Another New Testament woman who led a house church was Nympha (Col. 4:15). Paul sent greetings to her and to the church at her house. Some modern scholars try to get around this by saying that Nympha was "just" the hostess, not the pastor. If that were so, who did pastor her house church, and why would Paul so rudely fail to greet the pastor as well as the hostess?
Full Article Continues Here
That's a lie and a personal attack. Their Exegesis comports with scripture. Yours does not. That would make your credibility zero. And that would make your arguments counter to God's work.
The one that attacks the word of God is that which tells God through their poor Exegesis that he will never be believed to have called a woman to shepherd his flock.
And come the judgment such people will account for their hubris and egoism that on earth insisted they knew better than God at his word, whom he would call to his service. They shall account for every single word.
Bible.Org http://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-20-christ-all-and-all-colossians-311
Romans 12:5 In the same way, though we are many, we are one body in union with Christ, and we are all joined to each other as different parts of one body. 6 So we are to use our different gifts in accordance with the grace that God has given us. If our gift is to speak God's message, we should do it according to the faith that we have;
Galatians 3:27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.
The one that attacks the word of God is that which tells God through their poor Exegesis that he will never be believed to have called a woman to shepherd his flock.
And come the judgment such people will account for their hubris and egoism that on earth insisted they knew better than God at his word, whom he would call to his service. They shall account for every single word.
Bible.Org http://bible.org/seriespage/lesson-20-christ-all-and-all-colossians-311
Romans 12:5 In the same way, though we are many, we are one body in union with Christ, and we are all joined to each other as different parts of one body. 6 So we are to use our different gifts in accordance with the grace that God has given us. If our gift is to speak God's message, we should do it according to the faith that we have;
Galatians 3:27 For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise.