Woman can't teach in the congregation

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Seedz

Guest
all the leaders of the early church were wealthy men?

who told you that? your senses...?

a person filled with the Holy Spirit of God does not go about condemning the veracity of the Bible nor do they say the Bible is filled with contradictions

ALL Christians have doubts...at one time or another and prob some people every day...but that is not what is going on with you

your apparent desire is to cause EVERYONE to have doubts all the time

whatever Jesus you say you believe in, is not the Jesus Christians here believe in

and I am not interested in your burning wit and self congratulatory style of intellectual gobble de gook
I'm just stating my own doubts, uncovered by what I've been learning.

It is true though, that educated, literate men were the leaders of the early church. Usually you were in the higher classes if you were learned and lettered. Unlike the OGs, the alleged unlettered men, that had blue collar jobs and probably didn't shower much.

How ironic...
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
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Women can't teach in the congregation......

Dead horse…… Stick...… Beat here....
 
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Seedz

Guest
Seedz
Senior Member

Aug 8, 20174853128




Monday at 6:48 PM
New #36
Are you saying that I am a believer or that I claim to be?

I used to believe. For about 14 years of my life, I consciously sought the will of God. I really tried to believe. My downfall in the faith was putting the whole bible into perspective and realizing that most people within the Christian world, hardly agree on anything and it has always been this way.

I no longer believe, i am open to changing my mind back, but it hasn't happened.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
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Are you saying that I am a believer or that I claim to be?

I used to believe. For about 14 years of my life, I consciously sought the will of God. I really tried to believe. My downfall in the faith was putting the whole bible into perspective and realizing that most people within the Christian world, hardly agree on anything and it has always been this way.

I no longer believe, i am open to changing my mind back, but it hasn't happened.

yeah I caught that

so why list yourself as a Christian? I have no problem discussing anything with non-Christians...I live in the world and some of my best friends have been unbelievers

I have a huge problem with the way Christians cannot agree. I pray about it almost every day

thank you for being honest...you might change the Christian tag on your profile to non or not sure

I think that would be better that those who are Christians here, would understand where you are coming from
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
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I'm just stating my own doubts, uncovered by what I've been learning.

It is true though, that educated, literate men were the leaders of the early church. Usually you were in the higher classes if you were learned and lettered. Unlike the OGs, the alleged unlettered men, that had blue collar jobs and probably didn't shower much.

How ironic...

well now don't be so quick to believe the bold above

do some research...I did and I continue so to do..I have an inquiring mind haha and do not take things for granted, but having said that, I KNOW God is real. I tend to be logical in my thinking...rather than emotional but sadly too emotional in my relationships which is not good...anyway, if God were not real, we would have ended ourselves a long time ago

and I have many other reasons to why I believe but as they would be subjective in the sense they are anecdotal, I see no point in relaying them here and very very seldom do so

as to the illiteracy of the 'fishermen' it is also true that Jewish boys were subject to learning the first 5 books of the Bible apparently

they were no dummies falling for anything. how is it they knew to be expecting the Messiah? heresay?

I think you have to study up on the customs and beliefs of the day before falling for the writings of men like Ehrman and others

I don't know who you read...just pulling a self proclaimed once upon a time believer turned agnostic out of the net
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,561
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Well, you accused me of getting my data from YouTube. Are you sure you are apt for an honest convo?

Well, isn't the delivery method rather inefficient?

Why was the Bible written in Greek when it should have been Aramaic?

Why are there almost no peasant leaders in the church history other than originals?

the entire Bible is not written in Greek...who is your source for that?

peasant leaders? uh...how about all the people named who were in leadership...do you actually know how many are mentionned int the NT by the authors ? or stated authors?

there are plenty

I mean you are making sweeping statements here and they are not accurate
 
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Seedz

Guest
yeah I caught that

so why list yourself as a Christian? I have no problem discussing anything with non-Christians...I live in the world and some of my best friends have been unbelievers

I have a huge problem with the way Christians cannot agree. I pray about it almost every day

thank you for being honest...you might change the Christian tag on your profile to non or not sure

I think that would be better that those who are Christians here, would understand where you are coming from
I guess I just haven't changed that in the settings, I should probably go and do that now.

Trust me, I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, I just want to find someone that actually can discuss intricate details of the bible and the church history.

You have an awesome attitude.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,561
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I guess I just haven't changed that in the settings, I should probably go and do that now.

Trust me, I don't want to burst anyone's bubble, I just want to find someone that actually can discuss intricate details of the bible and the church history.

You have an awesome attitude.
haha...I know some people I would like you to tell about my 'awesome attitude' (half way joking but thanks)

there are people that will come on here and identify as Christian and then basically troll the place

I suspected you might not be doing so because you have been here for some time but I thought I would challenge what you were saying

regarding discussion...supposed to be what the BDF is for

I just like honesty and I try to be that way

I appreciate your response(s) and the fact you are here, still trying to understand!
 
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Seedz

Guest
well now don't be so quick to believe the bold above

do some research...I did and I continue so to do..I have an inquiring mind haha and do not take things for granted, but having said that, I KNOW God is real. I tend to be logical in my thinking...rather than emotional but sadly too emotional in my relationships which is not good...anyway, if God were not real, we would have ended ourselves a long time ago

and I have many other reasons to why I believe but as they would be subjective in the sense they are anecdotal, I see no point in relaying them here and very very seldom do so

as to the illiteracy of the 'fishermen' it is also true that Jewish boys were subject to learning the first 5 books of the Bible apparently

they were no dummies falling for anything. how is it they knew to be expecting the Messiah? heresay?

I think you have to study up on the customs and beliefs of the day before falling for the writings of men like Ehrman and others

I don't know who you read...just pulling a self proclaimed once upon a time believer turned agnostic out of the net
Funny thing is that never ONCE have i said that God does not exist. I KNOW there is something. I just don't know if the bible is the story of that one something.

Let's say that they could read. Even if so, the texts that we have are all in Greek. Not Aramaic. Are you telling me these peasants went through the trouble of learning literature and composition skills, in a language totally different and alien to their native tongue? Not only did they have to be fluent, but they had to learn to compose literary works, which as you may know, it is no easy task. They are not 4 line stories like you'd get from a picture book.

Not to mention that all we truly have are copies, not a single original document. All of which are from the mid second century and later.

Ironically, the messiah that the Jews expect is nothing like Jesus. Isaiah 53, psalm 22, etc. never once mention the Christ, or messiah. We have ascribed those passages to fit "the messiah", in reality the actual context is far away from what we modern Christians believe them to be. It is quite laughable, I once saw a video of a dude walking around in Jerusalem, reading this passage to the Jewish people passing by in the streets, trying to see if they would realize that the Prophecy was hinting at Jesus. Poor guy, he meant well, but his ignorance is too much.

I've read all sorts. Erhman, carrier, Loftus, But I have also read Craig, C.S. Lewis, Licona. So Yeah, I am not just sticking to one side of the argument.

Most of the Christian apologists forget to be honest about contemporary contextual realities. They almost want us to believe that the world was the same back then as it is today, not to mention that they will avoid some topics that they know are extremely hard to reconcile.
 
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Seedz

Guest
haha...I know some people I would like you to tell about my 'awesome attitude' (half way joking but thanks)

there are people that will come on here and identify as Christian and then basically troll the place

I suspected you might not be doing so because you have been here for some time but I thought I would challenge what you were saying

regarding discussion...supposed to be what the BDF is for

I just like honesty and I try to be that way

I appreciate your response(s) and the fact you are here, still trying to understand!
Yeah, I feel you! I am genuinely trying to understand, and forgive me for having a low tolerance for ignorance, but If I am going to engage in conversation, I want to make sure it is factual and not emotion based.

Thank you for being understanding.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,561
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Yeah, I feel you! I am genuinely trying to understand, and forgive me for having a low tolerance for ignorance, but If I am going to engage in conversation, I want to make sure it is factual and not emotion based.

Thank you for being understanding.
I think if people knew what is really going on, you would get a better response

that's all
 
S

Seedz

Guest
the entire Bible is not written in Greek...who is your source for that?

peasant leaders? uh...how about all the people named who were in leadership...do you actually know how many are mentionned int the NT by the authors ? or stated authors?

there are plenty

I mean you are making sweeping statements here and they are not accurate
The entire new testament was written in Greek, should have been aramaic.

The only peasant leaders are the ones we find "documented" in the cannon.

In histor, we find wealthy educated men, as fathers of the church.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,561
3,150
113
The entire new testament was written in Greek, should have been aramaic.

The only peasant leaders are the ones we find "documented" in the cannon.

In histor, we find wealthy educated men, as fathers of the church.

ok...I'll get back to you on this one later...going to answer yr other post..the long one
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,561
3,150
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"Seedz, post: 3647412, member: 259815"]Funny thing is that never ONCE have i said that God does not exist. I KNOW there is something. I just don't know if the bible is the story of that one something.

I understand. I was saved when I was 5. was brought to church, heard about Jesus several times but just thought about it. without going into the whole thing, something happened at home that caused me to say 'God if you are real, please do such and such' He did. immediately. and so I prayed and accepted Jesus. as a 5 year old . that's just what happened but it was and is real which does not mean it has been a lovely and perfect life and I am always smiling and everyone loves me haha

Let's say that they could read. Even if so, the texts that we have are all in Greek. Not Aramaic. Are you telling me these peasants went through the trouble of learning literature and composition skills, in a language totally different and alien to their native tongue? Not only did they have to be fluent, but they had to learn to compose literary works, which as you may know, it is no easy task. They are not 4 line stories like you'd get from a picture book.

will include this with my response to your other post. when I respond to it

Not to mention that all we truly have are copies, not a single original document. All of which are from the mid second century and later. ditto

Ironically, the messiah that the Jews expect is nothing like Jesus. Isaiah 53, psalm 22, etc. never once mention the Christ, or messiah. We have ascribed those passages to fit "the messiah", in reality the actual context is far away from what we modern Christians believe them to be. It is quite laughable, I once saw a video of a dude walking around in Jerusalem, reading this passage to the Jewish people passing by in the streets, trying to see if they would realize that the Prophecy was hinting at Jesus. Poor guy, he meant well, but his ignorance is too much.

I disagree with your conclusions above. Isaiah 53 presents a Messiah who did actually show up...the Jews wanted a Messiah to kick Rome out of the local country side...especially the religious folk cause Caesar kind of cramped their 'style' people do alot of stuff to prove to others how much they believe but, my contrary thought on that, is that they might just be trying to prove their belief to themselves. I would really like to say more about all of that, but right now, I do not have time

I've read all sorts. Erhman, carrier, Loftus, But I have also read Craig, C.S. Lewis, Licona. So Yeah, I am not just sticking to one side of the argument.

hmmm...we got some real stars in that line up. I may be an exception, but Lewis is not one of my favorite authors even though alot of Christians seem to love him...

Most of the Christian apologists forget to be honest about contemporary contextual realities. They almost want us to believe that the world was the same back then as it is today, not to mention that they will avoid some topics that they know are extremely hard to reconcile.

I've heard some silly stuff myself. But in the end, Jesus either is or He is not who He says He is...and that has been said over and over but it's all any of us 'got'

God has 'proven' His reality to me in ways that I cannot deny Him.

pleased to get back later, but out of time now

thanks seedz
 
P

pjharrison

Guest
Well if you have a problem with wearing hats in church read on. Paul says clearly that we don't bother with such things
If your gonna wear a hat for a covering for protection, you will have to wear it all the time, even outside the church.
 

Nauga

Active member
Jun 7, 2018
117
30
28
you are not having an honest discussion with this dude to begin with

I can't find one post where he actually supports anything in scripture

his contributions consist of sowing seeds of unbelief

I wish people would do a little research when someone makes the kinds of comments he is making

it's easy to do...check all the posts in different threads. from there, it is relatively easy to begin to understand what a person believes

this dude, seedz, does not believe very much
I agree...It seems he is only here to argue and fight. I've put him on my Ignore list. I did not come here for strife, but for fellowship....If possible.
 

Nauga

Active member
Jun 7, 2018
117
30
28
you know, I think a better name you could have chosen for yourself would have been Moses

since you are all about the law while saying you are not

when I say law, I don't mean God's law. I mean you have decided you are the law for anyone who disagrees with you and really, you think someone 'attacked' the Bible?

the thing is though, Moses was a very humble man
You just accused our friend of
You have just attacked the Word of God. So much for your credibility. And perhaps Scripture means nothing to you.
Wow....You just accused our friend of "attacking the Word of God" when in fact it was doctrines taught by demons that were attacked, as they should be...If you really think our honorable friend attacked the Word, make it clear based on scripture just where this was done...Or apologize.
 

7seasrekeyed

Senior Member
Aug 27, 2017
7,561
3,150
113
I agree...It seems he is only here to argue and fight. I've put him on my Ignore list. I did not come here for strife, but for fellowship....If possible.

no that is not so

please give some consideration to the posts we exchanged

God knows if he is here to troll or not but that does not change our position

but I really do not think he is here to troll...if he is, he is a very patient troll cause he has been here some time