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E
Just call it as you really do, Jack:
it is foolishness to bar anyone who is guided by the Holy Spirit to teach the Word of God, men or women.
And I will repeat, these times are dark indeed; one reason is women pastors/ordination.. Virtually in every instance, the congregation/denomination will begin ordaining homosexuals and so on until the whole group has left the reservation entirely.
There are some directions in the scriptures we may not understand but if we don't even try to remain faithful to the basic structures established for the assembling and hearing/ministering of the Word and sacraments, why bother at all? Just go to a Tony Robbins seminar or watch Oprah.
it is foolishness to bar anyone who is guided by the Holy Spirit to teach the Word of God, men or women.
And I will repeat, these times are dark indeed; one reason is women pastors/ordination.. Virtually in every instance, the congregation/denomination will begin ordaining homosexuals and so on until the whole group has left the reservation entirely.
There are some directions in the scriptures we may not understand but if we don't even try to remain faithful to the basic structures established for the assembling and hearing/ministering of the Word and sacraments, why bother at all? Just go to a Tony Robbins seminar or watch Oprah.
This is simple truth. Whether or not you believe that women should preach, whether or not you see yourself as preaching right now, Bea, you are speaking directly, simply, and in a straightforward fashion. What you say is completely true. If Pauls and Timothy's words were not inspired by God, they wouldn't have been called disciples/prophets, or whatever term you wish to use to signify their authority.
The truth is, I am "attending" a church. I fellowship as best possible here, but this is not a true assembly although it would be nice were it so. When God's spirit first entered my heart, mind and soul, I had never read more than a few words in the Word, a sentence here and another there. For the first few days after God found me, I would talk to anyone who would hear me of the experience, and of the words in the Book He led me to shortly after this experience, it was the Oxford Bible laid open in the back room of the Red Herring, a coffee house on campus, and I began to read what was in it. It lept out at me. I wondered, what book is this, then looking at the cover I saw, Oxford Bible. It was opened to Isaiah, and for the first time in my life, I was understanding everything I read in it, or I should say, everything made perfect sense. After this, I obtained my very own copy of the same at the student book store, and everyone was hearing what I had to share and sharing with me. Many of my first instructors were girls, and they were full of the Holy Spirit. Miracles were not few in my first time reading through the Word. I was so joyous, I discontinued classes to read the Word, with just two months to graduation, it was not important to me anymore. Obtaining minimal camping gear, I drove a Puch 250 cc from the U of I to the Rockie Mountains with the sole intent of learning all I was given from the Word. I fellowshipped with a wonderful group calling themselves charismatic, and it was mostly in homes until the day I realized Jesus Christ walked the earth as a Jew, and when I mentioned it in worship..I think you already read the rest. As for belonging to a church, I have always belonged to the Body of Yeshua and worship with anyone who puts Him before all. God bless you and keep you always in the name of Yeshua, amen.
And if Timothy's teaching was only meant for the women of the time, he wouldn't have based it on the origin of sin and the origin of women and of biologically induced humanity itself; Adam and Eve. the first sin. The first deception. The first lie. It's really, really simple. Women aren't meant to be pastors/ministers/priests. For a reason. The reason we even have knowledge of sin at all. This is a really big issue.
I personally, see this as more a meeting of friends and people who share something in common. As if we are all sitting in the site owner's home discussing faith. In which scenario, I wouldn't have any problem with a woman sharing her opinion. If this were a church, and you were heading the discussion, Bea, it might be different.
I personally, see this as more a meeting of friends and people who share something in common. As if we are all sitting in the site owner's home discussing faith. In which scenario, I wouldn't have any problem with a woman sharing her opinion. If this were a church, and you were heading the discussion, Bea, it might be different.
E
Mediate, Adam was not deceived.
He knowingly rebelled, not deceived.
And I guess you could say he "told the truth" - but you left out the part where his already fallen nature blamed God Himself for giving him the woman who gave him, and he did eat.
Other than that I agree with your post.
Especially this part:
There's this argument going on that women preachers were called by God. Does that mean everyone who stands in front of a pulpit is automatically chosen? Or is this just the logic you apply to women preachers? Just because someone stands up and speaks, does not make them chosen by God.
He knowingly rebelled, not deceived.
And I guess you could say he "told the truth" - but you left out the part where his already fallen nature blamed God Himself for giving him the woman who gave him, and he did eat.
Other than that I agree with your post.
Especially this part:
There's this argument going on that women preachers were called by God. Does that mean everyone who stands in front of a pulpit is automatically chosen? Or is this just the logic you apply to women preachers? Just because someone stands up and speaks, does not make them chosen by God.
E
http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/45464-women-preachers-does-gods-word-authorize-14.html#post750427
B
Yes well see... it ends up being that people take it too far and say women cannot speak anything. And men use it to belittle the testimony of women. Well I dont believe in that, otherwise I wouldn't be here speaking on this thread. They can be used in many ways. Just in the right order, and scripture says the right order. Sigh, I wish people got the balance correctly.
E
words spoken by fallible people in 2012 at CC?
Or words recorded in the pages of scripture?
2 Peter 3
14Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, 18but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
Here is Peter telling us Pauls wisdom was given to him.
By Whom.
Or words recorded in the pages of scripture?
2 Peter 3
14Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, 15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard so that you are not carried away by the error of unprincipled men and fall from your own steadfastness, 18but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
Here is Peter telling us Pauls wisdom was given to him.
By Whom.
The question I find myself always asking, is why? I don't believe in blind faith guys. 'Are women allowed to teach in church?', is the wrong question to me. The question we should ask is, 'WHY do some of the disciples teach us that women should not be preachers? < that question isn't subjective. It doesn't ask a 'what if', it asks a 'why is this so?'
When you can understand the reason, you can accept the truth. Blindly accepting something is completely silly. That's why, JuameJ, when you assumed that I was 'making my own laws', I took offence. I read into the scripture, and it becomes simple. There is not much simpler than direct rules, anyway.
''Making my own laws', then (not as a personal attack obviously, but directed at anyone who thinks women can't preach), might be a more apt description of what I was doing, if say, for instance, I was simply ignoring what Timothy and Paul instruct and insisting that women can preach freely in all congregations. Do you understand what I'm saying?
There is little point in disputing whether or not women can preach. Wisdom, given by God, to these two men, has led them to tell us that women should not preach. So we ask, why? The reason being, that women were the first who were deceived, and women were the cause for the knowledge of sin and death. If I cause a car accident, should I then begin preaching about the dangers of driving? It is so that an example is set. Adam was deceived and he also ate, yes. But there was a reason that Satan went to Eve and not Adam. I suspect Adam would have (being God's first human creation), had more reserve and more a simple mind to refute Satan. After all, God made Adam. Adam knew this. Adam was of God.What God said, was the only truth that Adam ever knew. Eve was not as closely bonded. Eve was of Adam. She was easier to tempt.
When you can understand the reason, you can accept the truth. Blindly accepting something is completely silly. That's why, JuameJ, when you assumed that I was 'making my own laws', I took offence. I read into the scripture, and it becomes simple. There is not much simpler than direct rules, anyway.
''Making my own laws', then (not as a personal attack obviously, but directed at anyone who thinks women can't preach), might be a more apt description of what I was doing, if say, for instance, I was simply ignoring what Timothy and Paul instruct and insisting that women can preach freely in all congregations. Do you understand what I'm saying?
There is little point in disputing whether or not women can preach. Wisdom, given by God, to these two men, has led them to tell us that women should not preach. So we ask, why? The reason being, that women were the first who were deceived, and women were the cause for the knowledge of sin and death. If I cause a car accident, should I then begin preaching about the dangers of driving? It is so that an example is set. Adam was deceived and he also ate, yes. But there was a reason that Satan went to Eve and not Adam. I suspect Adam would have (being God's first human creation), had more reserve and more a simple mind to refute Satan. After all, God made Adam. Adam knew this. Adam was of God.What God said, was the only truth that Adam ever knew. Eve was not as closely bonded. Eve was of Adam. She was easier to tempt.
E
For sure they both fell. But you are right in pointing to that distinction and that Paul made a special point of noting it. Men and women are clearly different, yet of the same kind. Simple biology.
The woman was a helper & companion. The man was provider and leader, after the fall: God still had an order, however much harder and filled with sorrows it would be.
If we all lived according to the order of creation we would be much happier and more stable.
But the culture changers knew that destruction of the family and elevation of women to positions of authority in the west would weaken the whole structure. Now see where are as a society. And this has nothing at all to do with the fake dialectic we were given for the feminist revolution (women lesser than men etc).
Our families have fallen apart, divorce and all that stuff has so degraded us because we were duped by the lies about how things ought to be. Thats my take anyways.
Lenin - “Destroy the family and you destroy society."
Eliminate the sacredness of the marriage covenant from the minds of the masses. Make them believe marriage is outdated and blasé
Inspire hatred against the family unit, manhood and fatherhood
Institute no-fault divorce and encourage serial divorces
Incite rampant promiscuity, fornication and adultery
Make having illegitimate children become a common practice
Convince society that a child in the womb is not a human being
Provoke women to have abortions without regard to God or their consciences
Make true love seem like cheap amusement
Stimulate the people to confuse sex with the love
Create an environment that encourages unwed single motherhood
Inspire men to disrespect, dishonor and abuse women
Design laws that motivate women to commit paternity fraud
Incite homosexuality, lesbianism, sexual immorality and perversion
Influence men to effortlessly abandon children they sire
Most importantly, provoke a fierce relentless gender war
_
Much of feminist ideology appears familiar to anyone who knows at least a little bit about communist ideology. A good number of feminists have solid communist backgrounds, such as Betty Friedan, who was (perhaps still is) for many years a functionary of the Communist Party of the USA. Many feminist university professors involved in women's studies confess to and proudly boast of their affiliation with communist ideology, for which they use the euphemism Marxism. Furthermore, one of the most influential factions of feminism, Marxist- or socialist-feminism, openly declares its colours and is recognized as such, either communist or Marxist. Travelers who went to Russia and discussed the relationship between feminism and communism with older Russian citizens found out to their astonishment that many Russians consider Bolshevism and feminism to be synonyms and that the Russian revolution is considered by them in fact to have been a feminist revolution. (See also Matriarchy in USSR — off-site)
That appears to be born out by the fact that the vast majority of the victims whose lives were taken, for instance, in the purges in Russia were men.
The Communist Manifesto
End rant.
The woman was a helper & companion. The man was provider and leader, after the fall: God still had an order, however much harder and filled with sorrows it would be.
If we all lived according to the order of creation we would be much happier and more stable.
But the culture changers knew that destruction of the family and elevation of women to positions of authority in the west would weaken the whole structure. Now see where are as a society. And this has nothing at all to do with the fake dialectic we were given for the feminist revolution (women lesser than men etc).
Our families have fallen apart, divorce and all that stuff has so degraded us because we were duped by the lies about how things ought to be. Thats my take anyways.
Lenin - “Destroy the family and you destroy society."
Eliminate the sacredness of the marriage covenant from the minds of the masses. Make them believe marriage is outdated and blasé
Inspire hatred against the family unit, manhood and fatherhood
Institute no-fault divorce and encourage serial divorces
Incite rampant promiscuity, fornication and adultery
Make having illegitimate children become a common practice
Convince society that a child in the womb is not a human being
Provoke women to have abortions without regard to God or their consciences
Make true love seem like cheap amusement
Stimulate the people to confuse sex with the love
Create an environment that encourages unwed single motherhood
Inspire men to disrespect, dishonor and abuse women
Design laws that motivate women to commit paternity fraud
Incite homosexuality, lesbianism, sexual immorality and perversion
Influence men to effortlessly abandon children they sire
Most importantly, provoke a fierce relentless gender war
_
Much of feminist ideology appears familiar to anyone who knows at least a little bit about communist ideology. A good number of feminists have solid communist backgrounds, such as Betty Friedan, who was (perhaps still is) for many years a functionary of the Communist Party of the USA. Many feminist university professors involved in women's studies confess to and proudly boast of their affiliation with communist ideology, for which they use the euphemism Marxism. Furthermore, one of the most influential factions of feminism, Marxist- or socialist-feminism, openly declares its colours and is recognized as such, either communist or Marxist. Travelers who went to Russia and discussed the relationship between feminism and communism with older Russian citizens found out to their astonishment that many Russians consider Bolshevism and feminism to be synonyms and that the Russian revolution is considered by them in fact to have been a feminist revolution. (See also Matriarchy in USSR — off-site)
That appears to be born out by the fact that the vast majority of the victims whose lives were taken, for instance, in the purges in Russia were men.
The Communist Manifesto
End rant.
So, if Adam is now head of Eve, and God is head of Adam, who should be first in line to spread God's word? Well, obviously Adam would (after Jesus and God of course). And after Jesus, who was next most authoritative? Well it was his disciples wasn't it? Why was this so? Well, because the were close to Jesus and knew Him, many of them personally. The prophets, why are they prophets? Well, because God speaks to them directly.
And if the disciples have authority that we (as normal followers, do not), then what they say must be adhered to. And what do they instruct? Yes, that's right, that women should not preach.
And if the disciples have authority that we (as normal followers, do not), then what they say must be adhered to. And what do they instruct? Yes, that's right, that women should not preach.
Edward that is manic. And yet, sadly, an almost complete and apt description of all western society today. I will repost that:
Eliminate the sacredness of the marriage covenant from the minds of the masses. Make them believe marriage is outdated and blasé
Inspire hatred against the family unit, manhood and fatherhood
Institute no-fault divorce and encourage serial divorces
Incite rampant promiscuity, fornication and adultery
Make having illegitimate children become a common practice
Convince society that a child in the womb is not a human being
Provoke women to have abortions without regard to God or their consciences
Make true love seem like cheap amusement
Stimulate the people to confuse sex with the love
Create an environment that encourages unwed single motherhood
Inspire men to disrespect, dishonor and abuse women
Design laws that motivate women to commit paternity fraud
Incite homosexuality, lesbianism, sexual immorality and perversion
Influence men to effortlessly abandon children they sire
Most importantly, provoke a fierce relentless gender war
This, ladies and gentlemen, is the world we live in right now. This description, is the western world in all it's glory. I for one, am extremely, deeply disheartened and saddened by this.It's terrible to even think that some human beings have the capacity to actually want or condone a society as the one described above.
Eliminate the sacredness of the marriage covenant from the minds of the masses. Make them believe marriage is outdated and blasé
Inspire hatred against the family unit, manhood and fatherhood
Institute no-fault divorce and encourage serial divorces
Incite rampant promiscuity, fornication and adultery
Make having illegitimate children become a common practice
Convince society that a child in the womb is not a human being
Provoke women to have abortions without regard to God or their consciences
Make true love seem like cheap amusement
Stimulate the people to confuse sex with the love
Create an environment that encourages unwed single motherhood
Inspire men to disrespect, dishonor and abuse women
Design laws that motivate women to commit paternity fraud
Incite homosexuality, lesbianism, sexual immorality and perversion
Influence men to effortlessly abandon children they sire
Most importantly, provoke a fierce relentless gender war
This, ladies and gentlemen, is the world we live in right now. This description, is the western world in all it's glory. I for one, am extremely, deeply disheartened and saddened by this.It's terrible to even think that some human beings have the capacity to actually want or condone a society as the one described above.
it is a little bit messed up, the whole feminism men.vs.women thing that's going on i don't understand it. I find women get what they want then they no longer want it any more.
Example:
Woman meets strong, old fashioned man. Doesn't like his 'gender roles' ideals. Changes him. He gets confused about gender roles. She sees him as weak and not a real man. Hatred ensues. This is so typical that it isn't even stereotypical.
Example:
Woman meets strong, old fashioned man. Doesn't like his 'gender roles' ideals. Changes him. He gets confused about gender roles. She sees him as weak and not a real man. Hatred ensues. This is so typical that it isn't even stereotypical.
Then on man's view. 'Get sex, make money, diss women'. Always this battle for control, when it was never even about control. It was about each person taking the responsibilites they are due and having the role that best suits them as a gender. the desire for power has overcome the desire for peace and harmony, though.