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C
Do you really think for one second that this verse does away with distinction between men and women?
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
So I guess as long as we are in Christ its ok to be a homosexual since there is neither male nor female?
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
So I guess as long as we are in Christ its ok to be a homosexual since there is neither male nor female?
You would know it means we are following the desire of the Father. He is Spirit and would be worshipped in Spirit and Truth. Your reasoning verges upon perversion and abomination. You know how evil what you have purported is. That "verse" is the Word of God as taught via His servant, and it does make all the same in the Eyes of our Maker. You make reference to people who live in sin, but you are not considering those who have repented and live in the Light of Jesus. This is condemnation at its limit. All have sinned and fall short of the glory of Yahweh, but those who repent and receive His Only Begotten Son are forgiven and on the Way. A person repented of any sin and accepted by the Holy Spirit is no different from any other repented sinner. Learn what Yeshua teaches, "I desire mercy and not sacrifice." And elsewhere, "The Son of Man came to forgive, not to condemn." It seems your line of reason is completely lacking in mercy, and do not twist this to mean in any manner tolerance to sin.
A
OK, let's do this yet again. I am going to show that those who want women Pastors are just removing and changing the Bible to suit their purposes.
1. "First person singular" - Since when is this a standard to determine what is divinely-inspired and what is not? There is nothing in scripture that says this. This is your own idea that you are adding to the Bible. Will you at least admit that?? The same person you are saying gave his own personal opinion said this:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
So the rubber his the road right here. Either Paul is right here or he is wrong. This is where it all hinges. Paul is clearly saying that ALL the things he wrote were divinely-inspired. So he's telling truth or is a liar and as such should be rejected. I really just ask those who favor women Pastors to say this: was Paul lying in this verse? If so, then your position makes perfect sense to me.
Yet, you give no reason for why David is divinely inspired but Paul is not, aside from David's name. So again, you are just giving personal opinion. This is adding to Scripture with human 'tradition.'
Where is the proof of this?? What women were being killed in the church for wanting to become a Pastor? None of this is said in scripture. Again, just personal opinion. And where does it say men followed the BIble so not to offend society? Christians were a complete offense in their society because they believed in Jesus Christ. People were getting beheaded and fed to lions for declaring the name of Jesus. The Roman government did not care about women Pastors. They cared about the name of Jesus.
Ok, Paul lived 500 years before the creation of Islam so I don't think he took any "lessons" from it. Secondly, you show your full rebellious nature because now you are challenging God's order and mocking it. I suppose women should be the head of homes as well in a Christian family right? God says otherwise but since you have decided you know better than God, why not promote that idea?
It's not about what I think or believe. It's what the Bible clearly states. This is not about personal opinion.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. -- Isaiah 55.
You are presuming that you have God all figured out. You don't.
Again, where is this said? Just more of your personal opinion. And I love that you think it's "merciful" to directly go against what the Bible states. Should we be "merciful" and not share the Gospel with those who say "I hate God!"
Context, context, context. The entire chapter is about the law vs. grace and the fact that Gentiles do not have to first become Jews to become a Christian. It has nothing to do with supporting the work of female Pastors.
And here is the greatest irony. Here is the beginning of this chapter you quoted:
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Here is Paul, speaking in the first person, responding to a specific situation in a particular church at that time. There were Messianic Jews in the congregation of that church who were demanding that Gentiles follow the law to become Christians. The entire chapter is addressing their specific problem, in their specific church, at their specific time, all written from the first person perspective of Paul. And we know this with even greater certainty because Paul records a specific incident that happened with Peter. So you have blatantly violated your own made up rule about whether scripture is still relevant today.
I truly hope and pray that you come to believe Scripture as it is how God reveals Himself to us so that we can know Him and grow in Christ. This is becoming the dividing line for the church as much of it runs towards re-imagining the Bible to suit their own desires and agenda. But we are told to contend for the faith once given to the Saints. Jesus does not change. God does not change. And neither does the Bible.
1. "First person singular" - Since when is this a standard to determine what is divinely-inspired and what is not? There is nothing in scripture that says this. This is your own idea that you are adding to the Bible. Will you at least admit that?? The same person you are saying gave his own personal opinion said this:
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
So the rubber his the road right here. Either Paul is right here or he is wrong. This is where it all hinges. Paul is clearly saying that ALL the things he wrote were divinely-inspired. So he's telling truth or is a liar and as such should be rejected. I really just ask those who favor women Pastors to say this: was Paul lying in this verse? If so, then your position makes perfect sense to me.
Yet, you give no reason for why David is divinely inspired but Paul is not, aside from David's name. So again, you are just giving personal opinion. This is adding to Scripture with human 'tradition.'
Where is the proof of this?? What women were being killed in the church for wanting to become a Pastor? None of this is said in scripture. Again, just personal opinion. And where does it say men followed the BIble so not to offend society? Christians were a complete offense in their society because they believed in Jesus Christ. People were getting beheaded and fed to lions for declaring the name of Jesus. The Roman government did not care about women Pastors. They cared about the name of Jesus.
Ok, Paul lived 500 years before the creation of Islam so I don't think he took any "lessons" from it. Secondly, you show your full rebellious nature because now you are challenging God's order and mocking it. I suppose women should be the head of homes as well in a Christian family right? God says otherwise but since you have decided you know better than God, why not promote that idea?
It's not about what I think or believe. It's what the Bible clearly states. This is not about personal opinion.
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the Lord. 9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts. -- Isaiah 55.
You are presuming that you have God all figured out. You don't.
Again, where is this said? Just more of your personal opinion. And I love that you think it's "merciful" to directly go against what the Bible states. Should we be "merciful" and not share the Gospel with those who say "I hate God!"
Context, context, context. The entire chapter is about the law vs. grace and the fact that Gentiles do not have to first become Jews to become a Christian. It has nothing to do with supporting the work of female Pastors.
And here is the greatest irony. Here is the beginning of this chapter you quoted:
O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
Here is Paul, speaking in the first person, responding to a specific situation in a particular church at that time. There were Messianic Jews in the congregation of that church who were demanding that Gentiles follow the law to become Christians. The entire chapter is addressing their specific problem, in their specific church, at their specific time, all written from the first person perspective of Paul. And we know this with even greater certainty because Paul records a specific incident that happened with Peter. So you have blatantly violated your own made up rule about whether scripture is still relevant today.
I truly hope and pray that you come to believe Scripture as it is how God reveals Himself to us so that we can know Him and grow in Christ. This is becoming the dividing line for the church as much of it runs towards re-imagining the Bible to suit their own desires and agenda. But we are told to contend for the faith once given to the Saints. Jesus does not change. God does not change. And neither does the Bible.
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C
The problem is that you are trying to apply meanings to verses that don't mean what you want them to mean. That verse is simply saying that men and women are equally saved and loved by God. Both men and women can be used by God, but in different ways. There is a clear distinction between men and women that is very obvious. God has certain roles for men and women both inside and outside of the Church.
No one, at least not I, has intimated that Paul is not divinely inspired, this is your assumption.
Nowhere have I posted anything dealing with women being beheaded awaiting to be pastors.
Because I do not know better than Yahweh, I present what He has taught me.
It is not what I think, however Paul was stating his own opinion. This is not being pedant, splitting hairs or even grammar, it is simply what Paul has declared, not in the name of Yahweh, and not because he was inspired, he states it is his own will not to suffer women.
Never have I approached stating I have Yahweh all figured out, but I cannot deny what the Holy Spirit witnesses.
When your teaching contains mercy and not your law, perhaps you may discuss the quality of mercy, until then, it is best not to pronounce the word.
Context, context, context. The entire chapter is about the law vs. grace and the fact that Gentiles do not have to first become Jews to become a Christian. It has nothing to do with supporting the work of female Pastors.
It is the law that I do not apply as per your application of barring women from speech. No, I received the Holy Spirit without foreknowledge there was such an experience, and believe me, first person, I know all are free because of Jesus Christ Yeshua, and we are not under any laws directing men and women to act according to your thinking or according to the customs and traditions of man at the time Paul circuited various countries teaching. I belong to the One crucified for my sins, not to Paul, but you are totally Paul's because you do not listen to the teachings of the Master, and I pity anyone who places Paul before the Lamb of God.
Pay attention to Christ first, you are free if you are in Him. There are traditions of man that are harmful and there are those that are not. Learn to discern.
A
This is your own statement:
You can't just walk away from such a reckless statement, which again reveals that you do not believe all scripture to be God's Word. Did you write this or am I am misquoting you? You clearly state here that Holy Spirit did not write the verse through Paul, but rather Paul wrote his own thoughts.
So did Paul write personal opinion or did the Holy Spirit write it through Paul?
You can't just walk away from such a reckless statement, which again reveals that you do not believe all scripture to be God's Word. Did you write this or am I am misquoting you? You clearly state here that Holy Spirit did not write the verse through Paul, but rather Paul wrote his own thoughts.
So did Paul write personal opinion or did the Holy Spirit write it through Paul?
Except for the last and most perverse declaration, yes, it is not the container, but the content. You do know come the Kingdom we will all be just like Yeshua? If we are being perfected to that most wondrous and beautiful state, is it too difficult to comprehend we are all the same. You people, my friends, seem to be hung up on the reproductive aspect of mankind and professing to be wise discount that come the Kingdom there is no need of giving and taking of wives for we are all like angels, and reproduction is non existent. Are you putting all your stock in the physical? Being all the same forever, what a strange and wonderful future, amen.
C
There is nothing to interpret here. This is about as blunt and straightforward as it gets, but of course we know that Paul was uninspired when he says anything that you personally do not like or agree with, right?
1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
1Ti 2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
1Ti 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
1Ti 2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
Why is it blunt and straightforward when you say, and when I indicate Paul is speaking in the first person his own opinion, I am not understanding. It seems things are straightforward only if I wish to apply a law that women cannot be treated as saved and knowing what all know by the Holy Spirit. According to what your law dictates, women are not worthy of speaking what God has given them to know. This is getting repetitious, and I really believe you are whipping a long deceased horse.
And why do those who say we are not under the law not only create their own laws but run to the Old Testament to justify their own shortcomings? It really is a mystery to me, and I believe Moses.
And why do those who say we are not under the law not only create their own laws but run to the Old Testament to justify their own shortcomings? It really is a mystery to me, and I believe Moses.
P
Does a difficult teaching from God's Word make it null?
Shall we allow 20th century feminism to destroy what the Lord has commanded?
Deborah was a judge, and lest we "imlpy" meaning that isn't there, we never see in the Word that she teaches or leads men in moral or spiritual matters. She arbitrates disputes ( which her gift of prophecy would have lent to) and she led in a military matter. Am I missing something? These wonderful women spoken of never shepherded a flock, or taught in the assembly of a "church" atmosphere.
Can a woman have the Word of Truth and wield it? Certainly! Should she do this as a pastor? No. How can we not see the clear teaching of scripture on this? And how can we attempt to explain it away? Why would we want to?
Gentlemen, do you not, in your very natures, feel nurturing and protective of the girls/women in your lives? (thank you!)
And ladies, do you not appreciate and love them for it? We should, for when men follow the scripture in their relationships with women, they sacrifice much to care for us.
Surely the Lord loves us equally, and after He comes for us we shall be equals in His kingdom.
Are women somehow "less" now? Of course not!
But for this time, there is an order established by God, and obedience to it is rewarded with peace.
The Word exhorts us; let us follow.
~ellie
Shall we allow 20th century feminism to destroy what the Lord has commanded?
Deborah was a judge, and lest we "imlpy" meaning that isn't there, we never see in the Word that she teaches or leads men in moral or spiritual matters. She arbitrates disputes ( which her gift of prophecy would have lent to) and she led in a military matter. Am I missing something? These wonderful women spoken of never shepherded a flock, or taught in the assembly of a "church" atmosphere.
Can a woman have the Word of Truth and wield it? Certainly! Should she do this as a pastor? No. How can we not see the clear teaching of scripture on this? And how can we attempt to explain it away? Why would we want to?
Gentlemen, do you not, in your very natures, feel nurturing and protective of the girls/women in your lives? (thank you!)
And ladies, do you not appreciate and love them for it? We should, for when men follow the scripture in their relationships with women, they sacrifice much to care for us.
Surely the Lord loves us equally, and after He comes for us we shall be equals in His kingdom.
Are women somehow "less" now? Of course not!
But for this time, there is an order established by God, and obedience to it is rewarded with peace.
The Word exhorts us; let us follow.
~ellie
A
Does a difficult teaching from God's Word make it null?
Shall we allow 20th century feminism to destroy what the Lord has commanded?
Deborah was a judge, and lest we "imlpy" meaning that isn't there, we never see in the Word that she teaches or leads men in moral or spiritual matters. She arbitrates disputes ( which her gift of prophecy would have lent to) and she led in a military matter. Am I missing something? These wonderful women spoken of never shepherded a flock, or taught in the assembly of a "church" atmosphere.
Can a woman have the Word of Truth and wield it? Certainly! Should she do this as a pastor? No. How can we not see the clear teaching of scripture on this? And how can we attempt to explain it away? Why would we want to?
Gentlemen, do you not, in your very natures, feel nurturing and protective of the girls/women in your lives? (thank you!)
And ladies, do you not appreciate and love them for it? We should, for when men follow the scripture in their relationships with women, they sacrifice much to care for us.
Surely the Lord loves us equally, and after He comes for us we shall be equals in His kingdom.
Are women somehow "less" now? Of course not!
But for this time, there is an order established by God, and obedience to it is rewarded with peace.
The Word exhorts us; let us follow.
~ellie
Shall we allow 20th century feminism to destroy what the Lord has commanded?
Deborah was a judge, and lest we "imlpy" meaning that isn't there, we never see in the Word that she teaches or leads men in moral or spiritual matters. She arbitrates disputes ( which her gift of prophecy would have lent to) and she led in a military matter. Am I missing something? These wonderful women spoken of never shepherded a flock, or taught in the assembly of a "church" atmosphere.
Can a woman have the Word of Truth and wield it? Certainly! Should she do this as a pastor? No. How can we not see the clear teaching of scripture on this? And how can we attempt to explain it away? Why would we want to?
Gentlemen, do you not, in your very natures, feel nurturing and protective of the girls/women in your lives? (thank you!)
And ladies, do you not appreciate and love them for it? We should, for when men follow the scripture in their relationships with women, they sacrifice much to care for us.
Surely the Lord loves us equally, and after He comes for us we shall be equals in His kingdom.
Are women somehow "less" now? Of course not!
But for this time, there is an order established by God, and obedience to it is rewarded with peace.
The Word exhorts us; let us follow.
~ellie
G
Does a difficult teaching from God's Word make it null?
Shall we allow 20th century feminism to destroy what the Lord has commanded?
Deborah was a judge, and lest we "imlpy" meaning that isn't there, we never see in the Word that she teaches or leads men in moral or spiritual matters. She arbitrates disputes ( which her gift of prophecy would have lent to) and she led in a military matter. Am I missing something? These wonderful women spoken of never shepherded a flock, or taught in the assembly of a "church" atmosphere.
Can a woman have the Word of Truth and wield it? Certainly! Should she do this as a pastor? No. How can we not see the clear teaching of scripture on this? And how can we attempt to explain it away? Why would we want to?
Gentlemen, do you not, in your very natures, feel nurturing and protective of the girls/women in your lives? (thank you!)
And ladies, do you not appreciate and love them for it? We should, for when men follow the scripture in their relationships with women, they sacrifice much to care for us.
Surely the Lord loves us equally, and after He comes for us we shall be equals in His kingdom.
Are women somehow "less" now? Of course not!
But for this time, there is an order established by God, and obedience to it is rewarded with peace.
The Word exhorts us; let us follow.
~ellie
Shall we allow 20th century feminism to destroy what the Lord has commanded?
Deborah was a judge, and lest we "imlpy" meaning that isn't there, we never see in the Word that she teaches or leads men in moral or spiritual matters. She arbitrates disputes ( which her gift of prophecy would have lent to) and she led in a military matter. Am I missing something? These wonderful women spoken of never shepherded a flock, or taught in the assembly of a "church" atmosphere.
Can a woman have the Word of Truth and wield it? Certainly! Should she do this as a pastor? No. How can we not see the clear teaching of scripture on this? And how can we attempt to explain it away? Why would we want to?
Gentlemen, do you not, in your very natures, feel nurturing and protective of the girls/women in your lives? (thank you!)
And ladies, do you not appreciate and love them for it? We should, for when men follow the scripture in their relationships with women, they sacrifice much to care for us.
Surely the Lord loves us equally, and after He comes for us we shall be equals in His kingdom.
Are women somehow "less" now? Of course not!
But for this time, there is an order established by God, and obedience to it is rewarded with peace.
The Word exhorts us; let us follow.
~ellie
_____ _____
Jaume's whole point, IF you really listen, and, mine, is the Lord leads our lives, and, He leads our lives by having given all who receive Him, the power of His Holy Spirit, to help us. This is after-Jesus-on-earth help. To therefore explain away this Power, as Jaume said He listens to those speaking with HS being understood spoke, male or female, is to DENY that God has used women filled with His Holy Spirit to preach His Word, this His plan
It's not a question of 'dividing lines,' A-O, it is not even a question of Truth. It IS Truth that Paula White, Elizabeth Elliott have been called to the pulpit to preach. Do you not believe reality?
Ultimately we are to follow Christ in our life, and, yes, we absolutely learn inspired things from Word, all scripture IS for reproof, correction, etc., as the Word states, but the Bible IS for 'those' things learned, individually, by more than JUST the Word teaching us. We MUST worship Christ in Spirit AND in Truth.
Scripture verbatimly says this, and, worshipping 'in Spirit,' is by God's Holy Spirit leading your life.
Many women, too, God uses tiday, not just Elliott, not just your favorite, A-O, Meyers, many, many, many churches have women teaching and preaching and to THINK this is not God's hand doing this calling of women is a very, very, very scary thought for me to even think about what you could possibly be thinking when hearing a women speak on TBN TV, or, wherever you sit or listen to a woman preach.
And, I do not deny that Paul is speaking of women to be silent. Paul says it , it is true, but, as I said in my very first post, God's will trumps all, and, IF you are blind, so blind, that you cannot see that God is using women in a great way, like Elliott, in her very old age now, then this is a REAL sad thing to see and speaks of your not believing in God's will and plan for their life, which brings me then to, perhaps, a much sadder question.....
Do you believe in God's plan for your own?
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