Women cannot have authority in the congregation.
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I fully concur with your estimation. Paul saying "I do not permit" is not the same as God saying that. I believe that Paul was offering his own personal opinion when addressing the culture and traditions at the time. Context is critical. Also, there was Deborah, appointed by God in a position of authority as a judge over the entire nation of Israel.
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I love your humor!! 
Well, let's look at the scripture......
Acts 16:16-19 New International Version (NIV)
16 Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a female slave who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling.
17 She followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.”
18 She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.
19 When her owners realized that their hope of making money was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to face the authorities.
Paul cast the spirit of divination out of a women that could tell peoples' futures and her owners made money off of her.
She had to be very accurate or her owners would NOT have made money off of her.
If she was "faking" the fortune telling she would have been able to continue "faking" and her owners would not have been upset at all.
That spirit of divination operated from the Spiritual Realm and could see certain things about people in the spirit, after Paul cast the spirit of divination out of her, she could not tell fortunes anymore.
God rules from the Heavenly Realm - which is hidden from the Spiritual Realm. All these new agers, mystics and spiritualist people operate from the Spiritual Realm but, the Heavenly Realm is higher.
Paul could cast out demons and this spirit of divination because he operates from the Heavenly Realm where he is seated with Jesus Christ according to the Father's Will, even though he was physically on Earth.
God is in supreme control - no one does anything except God allows it. The Spiritual Realm knows nothing unless God releases it from the Heavenly Realm.
Well, let's look at the scripture......Acts 16:16-19 New International Version (NIV)
16 Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a female slave who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling.
17 She followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, “These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved.”
18 She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so annoyed that he turned around and said to the spirit, “In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!” At that moment the spirit left her.
19 When her owners realized that their hope of making money was gone, they seized Paul and Silas and dragged them into the marketplace to face the authorities.
Paul cast the spirit of divination out of a women that could tell peoples' futures and her owners made money off of her.
She had to be very accurate or her owners would NOT have made money off of her.
If she was "faking" the fortune telling she would have been able to continue "faking" and her owners would not have been upset at all.
That spirit of divination operated from the Spiritual Realm and could see certain things about people in the spirit, after Paul cast the spirit of divination out of her, she could not tell fortunes anymore.
God rules from the Heavenly Realm - which is hidden from the Spiritual Realm. All these new agers, mystics and spiritualist people operate from the Spiritual Realm but, the Heavenly Realm is higher.
Paul could cast out demons and this spirit of divination because he operates from the Heavenly Realm where he is seated with Jesus Christ according to the Father's Will, even though he was physically on Earth.
God is in supreme control - no one does anything except God allows it. The Spiritual Realm knows nothing unless God releases it from the Heavenly Realm.
The Holy Spirit will not say one thing in Isaiah then contradict it in Acts. We have to make them reconcile. How do you reconcile that the ability to declare the future is a Divine attribute in Isaiah and not one in Acts. You can't. You must conclude that the girl lost her ability to say those things that made her creepy, like maybe telling someone where to look to find a lost coin in their house. Or which house their wayward son is shacked up with a prostitute. Things that made her of reputation as a fortune teller that was indeed real but not the Divine attribute of being able to really tell their future. You cannot ignore Isaiah 41 in your interrpretation.
There is absolutely no knowledge you can have about what they see about the future in the spiritual realm from any scriptures we have discussed so far. That is just some guess about the way things might be in the spiritual realm on your part.
At this point I think you should concede that Isaiah 41 must be taken into account and that you agree that this girl could not actually tell the future because only God can do that. You could word your concession something like... Scribe is correct and I concede that... Or you could skip that part and just agree that we must include Isaiah 41 in our interpretation.
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It's all good. We are family here and at times there is the occasional squabble. I enjoy your posts too, even the ones that I am not in full agreement with.
fair enough
I have no illusions about all believers all being in agreement all the time.if we believe in Christ altogether then we are doing it right
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no one has the ability to 'protect God' =
but yes, we do and can get offended for Him in our Love and thankfulness,
when some disrespect Him...
I, myself think that this is a very precious thing that comes from our devoted, everlasting Love for Him'
and, it will never cease...
no one has the ability to 'protect God' =
but yes, we do and can get offended for Him in our Love and thankfulness,
when some disrespect Him...
I, myself think that this is a very precious thing that comes from our devoted, everlasting Love for Him'
and, it will never cease...
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we are to expose error
there were 2 errors. one in the condescending way she broke into the thread and continued that for the most part
and the other far more grievous error was being told we only need the Holy Spirit.
I am sure you know of many who are led astray while professing speaking in tongues, miracles, prophecies etc
I think you know what I mean. this is what comes from those who refuse instruction and put their experiences before the word
saying you follow the Holy Spirit and don't need further instruction can be a recipe for disaster. If God has not called you to teach you should not be teaching. sadly, that is the reverse of accepting whatever. neither is correct
God gave to the church (body) the spirit gift of teaching for a reason. Paul gave instruction and correction for a reason.
ignoring that leads to deception. period
there were 2 errors. one in the condescending way she broke into the thread and continued that for the most part
and the other far more grievous error was being told we only need the Holy Spirit.
I am sure you know of many who are led astray while professing speaking in tongues, miracles, prophecies etc
I think you know what I mean. this is what comes from those who refuse instruction and put their experiences before the word
saying you follow the Holy Spirit and don't need further instruction can be a recipe for disaster. If God has not called you to teach you should not be teaching. sadly, that is the reverse of accepting whatever. neither is correct
God gave to the church (body) the spirit gift of teaching for a reason. Paul gave instruction and correction for a reason.
ignoring that leads to deception. period
G
You summed it up well. Let me say it in my own words: either you believe something that is not proven, for which there is not even evidence; or you believe where there is already evidence from scientists.
As I told you here, I was with the JW. One of their favorite tricks is to promise that one should ask God in prayer. The Holy Spirit would give me the answer. I prayed, but I was confused, I also told the two women who visited me. Then they thought it was my fault because I asked the "wrong questions."
I prayed again, and then had a "warm feeling" that they saw as confirmation by the Holy Ghost. Do you understand how their trick works? In psychology, it's called autosuggestion.
You say that the Bible comes word for word, from A to Z from God. Trained Biblical scholars and Bible historians who have studied ancient scriptures say otherwise. They appreciate and love the Bible, but they also see their flaws and weaknesses.
And so I see the Bible. It is not perfect, but it is useful for learning things.
But no one should make the mistake of taking things out of the textual and historical context. And one should always ask oneanother what can be used from the Bible as for the present day.
As I told you here, I was with the JW. One of their favorite tricks is to promise that one should ask God in prayer. The Holy Spirit would give me the answer. I prayed, but I was confused, I also told the two women who visited me. Then they thought it was my fault because I asked the "wrong questions."
I prayed again, and then had a "warm feeling" that they saw as confirmation by the Holy Ghost. Do you understand how their trick works? In psychology, it's called autosuggestion.
You say that the Bible comes word for word, from A to Z from God. Trained Biblical scholars and Bible historians who have studied ancient scriptures say otherwise. They appreciate and love the Bible, but they also see their flaws and weaknesses.
And so I see the Bible. It is not perfect, but it is useful for learning things.
But no one should make the mistake of taking things out of the textual and historical context. And one should always ask oneanother what can be used from the Bible as for the present day.
G
I would like to respond you into German, but that would be rude to the other users.
I used to work for the NSA. The first thing you learn is to never believe a source alone; but to confirm, relativize or have information confirmed by several other sources as false.
And so I examine everything. Also the Bible.
I don't believe anything anymore because I've been told it's true. And I don't believe in a "Holy Spirit" because JW taught me how to manipulate other people in their faith.
For me, facts count, not fiction!
I used to work for the NSA. The first thing you learn is to never believe a source alone; but to confirm, relativize or have information confirmed by several other sources as false.
And so I examine everything. Also the Bible.
I don't believe anything anymore because I've been told it's true. And I don't believe in a "Holy Spirit" because JW taught me how to manipulate other people in their faith.
For me, facts count, not fiction!
@lenna - you’re wrong in your critical thinking over my posts.
You post my posts but, not what I was responding to which was condescending remarks from you and others yet, it didn’t bother me - I am not angry with any of you- I just simply don’t agree. So what? We can still love each other.
It’s perfectly fine if anyone wants to use hermeneutics. I don’t, I’d rather ask the Holy Spirit for understanding because I know I’ll end up not knowing ANYTHING if I try to understand on my own.
The Holy Spirit is so available to every believer - it’s not good for us to resist, neglect, grieve or quench Him. We’re to rely on the Holy Spirit - even to walk and live this new life IN CHRIST.
Once you’ve tasted honey from the honeycomb, you know what Truth taste like.
I wish you all the best.
You post my posts but, not what I was responding to which was condescending remarks from you and others yet, it didn’t bother me - I am not angry with any of you- I just simply don’t agree. So what? We can still love each other.
It’s perfectly fine if anyone wants to use hermeneutics. I don’t, I’d rather ask the Holy Spirit for understanding because I know I’ll end up not knowing ANYTHING if I try to understand on my own.
The Holy Spirit is so available to every believer - it’s not good for us to resist, neglect, grieve or quench Him. We’re to rely on the Holy Spirit - even to walk and live this new life IN CHRIST.
Once you’ve tasted honey from the honeycomb, you know what Truth taste like.
I wish you all the best.
Once again you can either believe God or believe the scholars. God says that Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him" (Prov 30:5). Therefore Jesus said: It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God. (Mt 4:4) Where was Christ quoting from when He said "it is written"? He was quoting from Deuteronomy 8:3: And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of the LORD doth man live.
We have actual documentary evidence that the Bible -- as inspired -- was also preserved through faithful copies, of copies, of copies, from different regions and from various times in history.
The doctrine of divine preservation IS GENERALLY NOT BELIEVED by modern scholars, but it is true nonetheless. One of the best examples is the Isaiah scroll found with the Dead Sea Scrolls (and dating from c 200 BC). Isaiah in the Masoretic Text (the traditional text) as found in the codices from 900 AD is an exact replica of this scroll. So over a period of OVER 1,000 YEARS the text remained unaltered,
The same principle applies to the New Testament, but the major problem is that the most ancient manuscripts are also the MOST CORRUPT. This may sound paradoxical until one sees that heretics began tampering with the New Testament very early on, and the corrupt manuscripts survived because they were cast aside.
Just like any Bible wears down with age, and eventually falls apart, the true manuscripts did not survive through constant use. But once again faithful copies of copies of copies (as well as early versions and translations) ensured that the text remained unchanged. Therefore the majority of manuscripts agree and are represented in the Received Text, but a handful of manuscripts (called the Minority Text) disagree in thousands of particulars because they have been corrupted.
We have actual documentary evidence that the Bible -- as inspired -- was also preserved through faithful copies, of copies, of copies, from different regions and from various times in history.
The doctrine of divine preservation IS GENERALLY NOT BELIEVED by modern scholars, but it is true nonetheless. One of the best examples is the Isaiah scroll found with the Dead Sea Scrolls (and dating from c 200 BC). Isaiah in the Masoretic Text (the traditional text) as found in the codices from 900 AD is an exact replica of this scroll. So over a period of OVER 1,000 YEARS the text remained unaltered,
The same principle applies to the New Testament, but the major problem is that the most ancient manuscripts are also the MOST CORRUPT. This may sound paradoxical until one sees that heretics began tampering with the New Testament very early on, and the corrupt manuscripts survived because they were cast aside.
Just like any Bible wears down with age, and eventually falls apart, the true manuscripts did not survive through constant use. But once again faithful copies of copies of copies (as well as early versions and translations) ensured that the text remained unchanged. Therefore the majority of manuscripts agree and are represented in the Received Text, but a handful of manuscripts (called the Minority Text) disagree in thousands of particulars because they have been corrupted.
fair enough I have no illusions about all believers all being in agreement all the time.
if we believe in Christ altogether then we are doing it right
I have no illusions about all believers all being in agreement all the time.if we believe in Christ altogether then we are doing it right
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@lenna - you’re wrong in your critical thinking over my posts.
You post my posts but, not what I was responding to which was condescending remarks from you and others yet, it didn’t bother me - I am not angry with any of you- I just simply don’t agree. So what? We can still love each other.
It’s perfectly fine if anyone wants to use hermeneutics. I don’t, I’d rather ask the Holy Spirit for understanding because I know I’ll end up not knowing ANYTHING if I try to understand on my own.
The Holy Spirit is so available to every believer - it’s not good for us to resist, neglect, grieve or quench Him. We’re to rely on the Holy Spirit - even to walk and live this new life IN CHRIST.
Once you’ve tasted honey from the honeycomb, you know what Truth taste like.
I wish you all the best.
You post my posts but, not what I was responding to which was condescending remarks from you and others yet, it didn’t bother me - I am not angry with any of you- I just simply don’t agree. So what? We can still love each other.
It’s perfectly fine if anyone wants to use hermeneutics. I don’t, I’d rather ask the Holy Spirit for understanding because I know I’ll end up not knowing ANYTHING if I try to understand on my own.
The Holy Spirit is so available to every believer - it’s not good for us to resist, neglect, grieve or quench Him. We’re to rely on the Holy Spirit - even to walk and live this new life IN CHRIST.
Once you’ve tasted honey from the honeycomb, you know what Truth taste like.
I wish you all the best.
who is neglecting the Holy Spirit Lafftur?
who is grieving and quenching the Holy Spirit Lafftur?
who is ignoring the Holy Spirit Lafftur?
since I said in several posts that every believer in Christ is sealed with the Holy Spirit, why are you now trying to indicate I am wondering about it?
you are actually referring to a second filling, or infilling of the Holy Spirit though and not initial sealing
what makes you think myself and others do not know exactly what it is to be filled and even experience spiritual gifts?
you are posting down to people again but I guess you can't help yourself
you have no idea what I know or don't know about the Holy Spirit, the gifts of the Holy Spirit for the building up of the body of Christ or anything else about me
you should either respond to the actual op or start another thread for what you want to discuss. this has gone on long enough
L
At this point I think you should concede that Isaiah 41 must be taken into account and that you agree that this girl could not actually tell the future because only God can do that. You could word your concession something like... Scribe is correct and I concede that... Or you could skip that part and just agree that we must include Isaiah 41 in our interpretation.
it would also be a good thing to stop deflecting this thread. start your own about your own interests
I used to have a girl friend that was a Tarot Card reader. I know how it works. I have seen people absolutely amazed that she could "read their mail" this is what the demon spirit helped the girl do. There is no doubt that the demon spirit gave her an uncanny way of knowing things. This however would not be the kind of foretelling of future events that God is talking about only he can do.
The Holy Spirit will not say one thing in Isaiah then contradict it in Acts. We have to make them reconcile. How do you reconcile that the ability to declare the future is a Divine attribute in Isaiah and not one in Acts. You can't. You must conclude that the girl lost her ability to say those things that made her creepy, like maybe telling someone where to look to find a lost coin in their house. Or which house their wayward son is shacked up with a prostitute. Things that made her of reputation as a fortune teller that was indeed real but not the Divine attribute of being able to really tell their future. You cannot ignore Isaiah 41 in your interrpretation.
There is absolutely no knowledge you can have about what they see about the future in the spiritual realm from any scriptures we have discussed so far. That is just some guess about the way things might be in the spiritual realm on your part.
At this point I think you should concede that Isaiah 41 must be taken into account and that you agree that this girl could not actually tell the future because only God can do that. You could word your concession something like... Scribe is correct and I concede that... Or you could skip that part and just agree that we must include Isaiah 41 in our interpretation.
The Holy Spirit will not say one thing in Isaiah then contradict it in Acts. We have to make them reconcile. How do you reconcile that the ability to declare the future is a Divine attribute in Isaiah and not one in Acts. You can't. You must conclude that the girl lost her ability to say those things that made her creepy, like maybe telling someone where to look to find a lost coin in their house. Or which house their wayward son is shacked up with a prostitute. Things that made her of reputation as a fortune teller that was indeed real but not the Divine attribute of being able to really tell their future. You cannot ignore Isaiah 41 in your interrpretation.
There is absolutely no knowledge you can have about what they see about the future in the spiritual realm from any scriptures we have discussed so far. That is just some guess about the way things might be in the spiritual realm on your part.
At this point I think you should concede that Isaiah 41 must be taken into account and that you agree that this girl could not actually tell the future because only God can do that. You could word your concession something like... Scribe is correct and I concede that... Or you could skip that part and just agree that we must include Isaiah 41 in our interpretation.
And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
Acts 16:16 - https://www.biblegateway.com/passage?search=Acts 16:16&version=KJV
L
Now, those are beautiful kind words! Much love to you lenna!
don't pick out what I said to another person. error is not love and only does harm
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