You told the member to put her OT examples on the shelf to gather dust. That's the same as saying the OT is obsolete. Why not put the NT examples on the shelf too to gather dust? Who is the arbiter that decides whether or not an example, whether in the OT or the NT should be put on the shelf to gather dust. What NT verse or verses say to disregard OT examples?
Women in Ministry
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I think the object gets lost as to the setting up of the completely new order when gathering together.
The time of reformation had come.The new order which brought people from different families anticipated sexual immorality . (the lust of the eyes the lust of the flesh). The new order was set up to reduce the possibility of the gathering becoming a meat shopping gathering. And not that it could be a good place to mingle .But that mingling is left for home.
New ceremonial laws as shadows in a parable were coming into view. A shadow, between Christ and his bride the church of the wedding feast, when all will receive their new incorruptible body, consummating the union.As new creatures we are not recognized as male and female Jew nor Gentile
The new traditions were all connected as if it was all one work... ultimately as a representative glory of his veiled glory. The whole picture must be kept in view.
The breaking of bread, and drinking of the blood of grapes, the symbolic use of the hair covering for the woman and hair and uncovering for the man .And Woman being silent as far as counseling with, or teaching men.(all one in the same)
It was that atmosphere which was not known prior to the reformation. Again that God had set up so that when men and woman gathered together so the focus would be on His unseen glory represented by man and woman, the temporal as that seen .
Because of immorality woman are not to council or teach men, vice versa. Something some us older people have more experience in and the older even more.
There was a time when it was almost a shame for a woman to be in the work market with men. Much separation in relationships today is because of it. The cost of things seemed to rise to make it less possible for one income.
Today it an epidemic. The removal of a covenant between two became, no fault just as if there was never a commitment .
Today a marriage is no longer even marriage . It’s whatever you want the word marriage to mean.
It’s the growing problem in the work places today. As a foundry maintenance man for 35 years it was pretty much woman free. As a lead man I had the responsibility to train new employees as I walked them through . A young attractive woman was there for a short while who wanted to learn the trade. When we would go out to look at a machine it was like angel appeared and a aura surrounded her . Things that had to be moved out of the way were done automatically. Where us men would have to beg for the same.
Not that woman is not qualified but in a sence more that she is, more qualified . But she has the higher responsibility in a sense to be pastor of the home. If she has boys she is given the honor to teach them how to listen to woman .If they do not learn they will get an extension of their mother when they marry and she has the job to teach men how to be boys first.
It why the hair covering for the woman as a representative glory, an bride’s veil .Covering her hair, as Moses covered his face.
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.1Ti 2:15
She is saved from not being able to council with the males at all .
Again ask their husband at home and do not counsel with other men at church, a shame as dishonorable... not honoring her own husband first , as in the fall , or a man dishorioring his wife, if a man is seeking council from a woman ..
1Corinthians 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their "husbands" at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
The time of reformation had come.The new order which brought people from different families anticipated sexual immorality . (the lust of the eyes the lust of the flesh). The new order was set up to reduce the possibility of the gathering becoming a meat shopping gathering. And not that it could be a good place to mingle .But that mingling is left for home.
New ceremonial laws as shadows in a parable were coming into view. A shadow, between Christ and his bride the church of the wedding feast, when all will receive their new incorruptible body, consummating the union.As new creatures we are not recognized as male and female Jew nor Gentile
The new traditions were all connected as if it was all one work... ultimately as a representative glory of his veiled glory. The whole picture must be kept in view.
The breaking of bread, and drinking of the blood of grapes, the symbolic use of the hair covering for the woman and hair and uncovering for the man .And Woman being silent as far as counseling with, or teaching men.(all one in the same)
It was that atmosphere which was not known prior to the reformation. Again that God had set up so that when men and woman gathered together so the focus would be on His unseen glory represented by man and woman, the temporal as that seen .
Because of immorality woman are not to council or teach men, vice versa. Something some us older people have more experience in and the older even more.
There was a time when it was almost a shame for a woman to be in the work market with men. Much separation in relationships today is because of it. The cost of things seemed to rise to make it less possible for one income.
Today it an epidemic. The removal of a covenant between two became, no fault just as if there was never a commitment .
Today a marriage is no longer even marriage . It’s whatever you want the word marriage to mean.
It’s the growing problem in the work places today. As a foundry maintenance man for 35 years it was pretty much woman free. As a lead man I had the responsibility to train new employees as I walked them through . A young attractive woman was there for a short while who wanted to learn the trade. When we would go out to look at a machine it was like angel appeared and a aura surrounded her . Things that had to be moved out of the way were done automatically. Where us men would have to beg for the same.
Not that woman is not qualified but in a sence more that she is, more qualified . But she has the higher responsibility in a sense to be pastor of the home. If she has boys she is given the honor to teach them how to listen to woman .If they do not learn they will get an extension of their mother when they marry and she has the job to teach men how to be boys first.
It why the hair covering for the woman as a representative glory, an bride’s veil .Covering her hair, as Moses covered his face.
In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works.Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. For Adam was first formed, then Eve.And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.1Ti 2:15
She is saved from not being able to council with the males at all .
Again ask their husband at home and do not counsel with other men at church, a shame as dishonorable... not honoring her own husband first , as in the fall , or a man dishorioring his wife, if a man is seeking council from a woman ..
1Corinthians 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their "husbands" at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
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Well the New Testament tells us that the Old Covenant is obsolete. Not the Old Testament but the Old Covenant. But even under the Old Covenant all the priests were men, and almost all the prophets were men. There are rare examples of females who were prophetesses.
The answer is rather basic. The NT is for the Church and for the churches, and how the churches must operate and worship, and who should be in spiritual leadership, and who should not. One would think that any Christian would know at least that much.
And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment. (Judges 4:4,5)
It is mistakenly believed that Deborah was governing Israel. But verse 5 makes it crystal clear that she was doing in Israel what female judges do in our courts -- dispensing justice. Hence "for judgment". The Hebrew word for "for judgment" is the same as what we expect from our courts -- justice.
Strong's Concordance
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: mishpat
Phonetic Spelling: (mish-pawt')
Short Definition: justice
Brown-Driver-Briggs
מִשְׁמָּטnoun masculine[SUP]Genesis 40:13[/SUP]judgment; —
a.act of deciding a case:׳מ be-longeth to GodDeuteronomy 1:17, is from him Proverbs 16:33;Proverbs 29:26; ׳אֱלֹהֵי הַמּMalachi 2:17; ׳חשֶׁן מExodus 28:15the pouch of judgment, so Exodus 28:29;Exodus 28:30 (P); worn on heart of Aaron Exodus 28:30 (P); צֶדֶק׳מDeuteronomy 16:18; ׳הֵבִין מJob 32:9; ׳שׁפט מ1 Kings 3:28; ׳עשׂה מ1 Kings 3:28;׳דְּבַר (ה)מDeuteronomy 17:9; 2Chronicles 19:6;׳רוח מIsaiah 28:6; במשׁפטLeviticus 19:15,35 (H)Deuteronomy 1:17; Proverbs 16:10; Proverbs 24:23;חאורים׳במNumbers 27:21 (P); למשׁפטNumbers 35:12; Joshua 20:6 (P) Deuteronomy 17:8; Judges 4:5;2 Samuel 15:2,6; 2Chronicles 19:8; Isaiah 34:5; Isaiah 41:1; Isaiah 54:17; Isaiah 59:11; Habakkuk 1:12;Malachi 3:5; Psalm 9:8; Psalm 35:23; Psalm 76:10;Psalm 122:5; Job 9:19 (Ezekiel 44:24 see above).
The answer is rather basic. The NT is for the Church and for the churches, and how the churches must operate and worship, and who should be in spiritual leadership, and who should not. One would think that any Christian would know at least that much.
And Deborah, a prophetess, the wife of Lapidoth, she judged Israel at that time. And she dwelt under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in mount Ephraim: and the children of Israel came up to her for judgment. (Judges 4:4,5)
It is mistakenly believed that Deborah was governing Israel. But verse 5 makes it crystal clear that she was doing in Israel what female judges do in our courts -- dispensing justice. Hence "for judgment". The Hebrew word for "for judgment" is the same as what we expect from our courts -- justice.
Strong's Concordance
mishpat: judgment
Original Word: מִשְׁפָּטPart of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: mishpat
Phonetic Spelling: (mish-pawt')
Short Definition: justice
Brown-Driver-Briggs
מִשְׁמָּטnoun masculine[SUP]Genesis 40:13[/SUP]judgment; —
a.act of deciding a case:׳מ be-longeth to GodDeuteronomy 1:17, is from him Proverbs 16:33;Proverbs 29:26; ׳אֱלֹהֵי הַמּMalachi 2:17; ׳חשֶׁן מExodus 28:15the pouch of judgment, so Exodus 28:29;Exodus 28:30 (P); worn on heart of Aaron Exodus 28:30 (P); צֶדֶק׳מDeuteronomy 16:18; ׳הֵבִין מJob 32:9; ׳שׁפט מ1 Kings 3:28; ׳עשׂה מ1 Kings 3:28;׳דְּבַר (ה)מDeuteronomy 17:9; 2Chronicles 19:6;׳רוח מIsaiah 28:6; במשׁפטLeviticus 19:15,35 (H)Deuteronomy 1:17; Proverbs 16:10; Proverbs 24:23;חאורים׳במNumbers 27:21 (P); למשׁפטNumbers 35:12; Joshua 20:6 (P) Deuteronomy 17:8; Judges 4:5;2 Samuel 15:2,6; 2Chronicles 19:8; Isaiah 34:5; Isaiah 41:1; Isaiah 54:17; Isaiah 59:11; Habakkuk 1:12;Malachi 3:5; Psalm 9:8; Psalm 35:23; Psalm 76:10;Psalm 122:5; Job 9:19 (Ezekiel 44:24 see above).
God governs from heaven as the invisible King of visible kings, and as a invisible Lord of lords seen . The apostate Jews became jealous of the surrounding pagan nations and insisted that God give them a outward fleshly witness to put their faith in. God gave them over temporally to do that which they should not of (walked by sight) .That period of time when the Jews were used as a parable for that time period came to and end.
The reformation came and restored the time period to the period of Judges where God once again worked with woman in the same way he worked with men by a work of His faith, working in new creatures to both will and do His good pleasure ,as a imputed righteousness . Not in respect to male nor female, Jew nor Gentile
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Heb 9:8
To signify is to reveal the unseen spiritual understanding hid in parables .
Which was a figure/parable for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them "until" the time of reformation.Heb 9:9-10
The new order where male and female are no longer separated when gathering together with other believers was to keep down sexuall imoralatlity .Woman were not to do any personal counseling with men other than their husband at home and the same applies for men . The only glory to be present when gathering in a new cerimoinal law was the unseen glory of God .which will be veiled until we receive our new bodies and consummate the union with our Husband and us His chaste virgin bride . .
The reformation came and restored the time period to the period of Judges where God once again worked with woman in the same way he worked with men by a work of His faith, working in new creatures to both will and do His good pleasure ,as a imputed righteousness . Not in respect to male nor female, Jew nor Gentile
The Holy Ghost this signifying, that the way into the holiest of all was not yet made manifest, while as the first tabernacle was yet standing:Heb 9:8
To signify is to reveal the unseen spiritual understanding hid in parables .
Which was a figure/parable for the time then present, in which were offered both gifts and sacrifices, that could not make him that did the service perfect, as pertaining to the conscience;Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them "until" the time of reformation.Heb 9:9-10
The new order where male and female are no longer separated when gathering together with other believers was to keep down sexuall imoralatlity .Woman were not to do any personal counseling with men other than their husband at home and the same applies for men . The only glory to be present when gathering in a new cerimoinal law was the unseen glory of God .which will be veiled until we receive our new bodies and consummate the union with our Husband and us His chaste virgin bride . .
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