Women Pastors? Help me.
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Well said Willie....
Sometimes what people mean when they say “The bible says it, I believe it, and that settles it.”. This sounds legitimate on the surface of things.
But they can really mean is - "I believe the way I interpret the scripture or how I was taught in my church upbringing to believe about that verse or topic".
Hold a knife to the throat of one of our "sacred cows" from our church teachings - and our religious zeal becomes activated and it isn't a pretty sight.
Just ask Martin Luther when he said "The just shall live by faith". The current religious world and beliefs for 1,100 years attacked him for his "heresy".
Sometimes what people mean when they say “The bible says it, I believe it, and that settles it.”. This sounds legitimate on the surface of things.
But they can really mean is - "I believe the way I interpret the scripture or how I was taught in my church upbringing to believe about that verse or topic".
Hold a knife to the throat of one of our "sacred cows" from our church teachings - and our religious zeal becomes activated and it isn't a pretty sight.
Just ask Martin Luther when he said "The just shall live by faith". The current religious world and beliefs for 1,100 years attacked him for his "heresy".
Using the "uninspired" KJV I see.
John! If you truly believe women are equal to men, then you would be ok with women pastors! What you have said is logically impossible. Either men are over women, in your belief that only men can be pastors, or women and men are equal and therefore, women can be pastors!
Again and again, I show you the Greek, and you fall back on the uninspired KJV and say that is the Bible, when it has been so badly translated. And not just in this area! I could show you hundreds of mistakes in literally every chapter. My Greek prof won't even deal for a minute with the KJV or any of the nonsense about the TR. Which in this case, supports the neuter nature of being deacons, too! An agenda resulted in the KJV put all those "men" and "his" and "he's" in that passage in 1 Tim. 3, that appears no where, in ANY GREEK text.
Greek is the true NT. That is where we need to go, in the end, to discover the truth about what the original writers wrote, in spite of a misogynist culture. Paul wrote what Jesus told him to write, and the truth, in Greek, is that women and men could both be leaders and elders and pastors.
Not trying to put you down, but I have never used the KJV, inspired or uninspired. I don't speak early modern English, and it is much to alien for me to understand. I understand Greek, Hebrew, French and Spanish better than the language of the KJV. Even in exegeting 1 Tim. 3, I had to keep referring to the modern versions to try and get a sense of what your beloved KJV was saying.
Does that make me stupid? No, it makes me a scholar. I am not equipped to deal with that language. I do not understand the grammar, the verb forms in second person singular, which modern English does not have, nor the some of the vocabulary. (Not saying that is a good thing, as Greek does have the second person singular, and sometimes things are lost in the modern versions.) We had a woman from the deep south, with the most lovely drawl, and she said "ya'll" for second person plural and "you" for second person singular, which really worked, But not my language!
Thank you. But, as I said, someone else wrote that. I just can't remember who.
But, we do have our sacred cows. I have often remarked at how odd it is that Jesus often looked skyward when He prayed, yet we have accepted as "Holy" and required that when we pray, it has to be, "Every head bowed, and every eye closed."
But, we do have our sacred cows. I have often remarked at how odd it is that Jesus often looked skyward when He prayed, yet we have accepted as "Holy" and required that when we pray, it has to be, "Every head bowed, and every eye closed."
I agree with some of what you have said.
However, Martin Luther tacked his 95 Theses against indulgences on the church at Wittenburg (a legend, or just an extension of his fight and his publishing this Theses?) in 1517. That makes it 500 years ago, not 1,100 years ago. Since this anniversary is going to be celebrated by Lutherans next year, an important mark in church history.
Plus, the Catholic church and the Lutheran Church in many areas, are reconciling. One of my mentors in chaplaincy had a father who was the head of the Missouri-Synod in India, and a mother who was the head of the Evangelical Lutherans in India, and they brokered a covenant with the RCC for reconcilation. Ironically, the Missouri-Synod is against women being pastors. This man said he would never ordain any woman - except his daughters. He came all the way from India twice to ordain his daughters at different times. Of course, they were Evangelical Lutheran!
History, people! It is so easy to google something before you post it!
Equality does not mean we are allowed to share the same role. Men and women are equal, but who has God placed in charge over the household of a family? Why? Because it is meant to show how Christ is head over the bride, the church. Equal, yet having order. I have not been called by God to be a pastor. I am to submit to the pastor of the church I attend. We are equal but have different roles within the church body.
You have an issue with KJV that did not come natural. You had to be "educated" into that position. Your false claims about King James the man is not called for. Being a "scholar", you have not done your study on him but rather read what others have falsely claimed. Why? Because these people don't like that there are people out there that actually believe they have the Bible, God's word. They do not want to submit authority, rather trust in their scholarship.
You have an issue with KJV that did not come natural. You had to be "educated" into that position. Your false claims about King James the man is not called for. Being a "scholar", you have not done your study on him but rather read what others have falsely claimed. Why? Because these people don't like that there are people out there that actually believe they have the Bible, God's word. They do not want to submit authority, rather trust in their scholarship.
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What if I'm a pastor and I AM a man...
but I "identify" as a girl...
and I'm not a pretty girl...
just a really hairy, muscular, manly girl..
and I also identify as a 6 year old girl,
who probably shouldn't have a drivers license,
so I have trouble getting to my church to preach on sunday...
and I'm actually "gender fluid",
so sometimes I DO identify as a man,
but just not on Sundays when I'm preaching?
What then?
but I "identify" as a girl...
and I'm not a pretty girl...
just a really hairy, muscular, manly girl..
and I also identify as a 6 year old girl,
who probably shouldn't have a drivers license,
so I have trouble getting to my church to preach on sunday...
and I'm actually "gender fluid",
so sometimes I DO identify as a man,
but just not on Sundays when I'm preaching?
What then?
D
As soon as someone says Lydia, I always think, purple
The other thing I liked about Lydia was purple cloth was strictly for the upper crust. (The dye used was exotic.) So she was the brains behind "high-end retail."
Women Pastors in China
I rarely weigh in on discussions like this simply because people are going to believe whatever they are going to believe. Some are going to lean toward a LITERAL biblical interpretation, and others are going to consider supply & demand. (There's a demand/need for laborers, especially male laborers, to go out to the field, but the supply of laborers, especially male ones, is few).
However, when I read threads on women pastors, I noticed that the discussion is usually limited to
1.) what Paul said
2.) Western culture. I'm not here to try to change anyone's mind on this debate. I would simply like to add some other considerations to the discussion that so often get left out.
In the population of China, males outnumber females considerably mainly because of China's one child policy. However, in the Chinese church, there are more female believers than male believers. There are also more female students than male students in the seminaries, more female preachers than male preachers, and even more female senior pastors than male senior pastors.
When we inquire into the possible reasons for this imbalance, several factors come to mind:
Through the China Inland Mission, and then with other mission agencies, WOMEN played a major role in the spread of the Gospel in China in the 19th and 20th centuries. To begin with, they were sent to minister to women, who could not be reached by men because of social customs.
Later, however, many foreign women missionaries also ministered to mixed groups, though they still usually worked mostly among women.
Their example paved the way for the prominent role of Chinese women as evangelists and Bible teachers. Another consequence of their activity was the rapid spread of the Gospel among Chinese women.
The activity of Chinese female evangelists. Not only before 1949, but especially afterwards, Chinese WOMEN have played a major role in the growth of the church. When pastors, elders, evangelists, and deacons were put into prison or even killed under the rule of the Communists, WOMEN stepped into positions of leadership.
Some women held meetings in their homes. Others were sent out by house to do itinerant evangelism. Usually going two-by-two, they took the Gospel to countless towns and villages across the nation. Their fearless and passionate preaching led to the conversions of millions of people, most of whom were women. Female pastors and evangelists have built a church composed largely of women.
Source:
Global China Center | Analysis
"Female pastors and evangelists have built a church composed largely of women." That's not a surprise because studies show that Christian women worldwide are the most religious and the most persecuted.
Christian Women Worldwide Are The Most Religious … and the Most Persecuted | Gleanings | ChristianityToday.com
Fact: God is using female pastors in China to build his church and fulfill the Great Commission. The proof is in the pudding. Chinese women are doing the work that men are either unwilling or unable to do.
I rarely weigh in on discussions like this simply because people are going to believe whatever they are going to believe. Some are going to lean toward a LITERAL biblical interpretation, and others are going to consider supply & demand. (There's a demand/need for laborers, especially male laborers, to go out to the field, but the supply of laborers, especially male ones, is few).
However, when I read threads on women pastors, I noticed that the discussion is usually limited to
1.) what Paul said
2.) Western culture. I'm not here to try to change anyone's mind on this debate. I would simply like to add some other considerations to the discussion that so often get left out.
In the population of China, males outnumber females considerably mainly because of China's one child policy. However, in the Chinese church, there are more female believers than male believers. There are also more female students than male students in the seminaries, more female preachers than male preachers, and even more female senior pastors than male senior pastors.
When we inquire into the possible reasons for this imbalance, several factors come to mind:
Through the China Inland Mission, and then with other mission agencies, WOMEN played a major role in the spread of the Gospel in China in the 19th and 20th centuries. To begin with, they were sent to minister to women, who could not be reached by men because of social customs.
Later, however, many foreign women missionaries also ministered to mixed groups, though they still usually worked mostly among women.
Their example paved the way for the prominent role of Chinese women as evangelists and Bible teachers. Another consequence of their activity was the rapid spread of the Gospel among Chinese women.
The activity of Chinese female evangelists. Not only before 1949, but especially afterwards, Chinese WOMEN have played a major role in the growth of the church. When pastors, elders, evangelists, and deacons were put into prison or even killed under the rule of the Communists, WOMEN stepped into positions of leadership.
Some women held meetings in their homes. Others were sent out by house to do itinerant evangelism. Usually going two-by-two, they took the Gospel to countless towns and villages across the nation. Their fearless and passionate preaching led to the conversions of millions of people, most of whom were women. Female pastors and evangelists have built a church composed largely of women.
Source:
Global China Center | Analysis
"Female pastors and evangelists have built a church composed largely of women." That's not a surprise because studies show that Christian women worldwide are the most religious and the most persecuted.
Christian Women Worldwide Are The Most Religious … and the Most Persecuted | Gleanings | ChristianityToday.com
Fact: God is using female pastors in China to build his church and fulfill the Great Commission. The proof is in the pudding. Chinese women are doing the work that men are either unwilling or unable to do.
