Women Pastors? Help me.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Demi777

Senior Member
Oct 13, 2014
6,877
1,950
113
Germany
yes the priest were men only. we are in the new covenant now where we dont need animals to be killed etc.
Jesus had hundrets and thousands of apostles. not just the twelve. you cant tell me they were only men, you werent there, nor is it written.
There is a difference about spiritual authority and authority in the household. As I have stated, the woman were bickering and arguing and with that, practicing authority over a man. If I preach the gospel and pray for men as well, I dont break Gods commandment.


Lauren: You are missing the point(maybe because you want to), we did not create ourselves, we are a creation by a Person, He created the man first, and then He created a mate for Him, a woman. Because of this God has placed certain things in order, only men were priests, only men were apostles, and women were not to be over men in the church. When I come on a forum or talk to people I always warn then about the consequences of disobeying a clear command from God as recorded in scripture, it does not matter what the subject is.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,395
6,643
113
Wait.............Whut? Do you completely discount the Priestesses who lived in the days of the First Testament?

And, apparently you STILL do not understand that Priscilla was OVER at least ONE MAN who she (along with her husband) instructed that man into a more perfect understanding of the Gospel. And, yes, she did this IN CHURCH. For their Church was in their home where this instruction occurred.



Lauren: You are missing the point(maybe because you want to), we did not create ourselves, we are a creation by a Person, He created the man first, and then He created a mate for Him, a woman. Because of this God has placed certain things in order, only men were priests, only men were apostles, and women were not to be over men in the church. When I come on a forum or talk to people I always warn then about the consequences of disobeying a clear command from God as recorded in scripture, it does not matter what the subject is.
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,395
6,643
113
Deborah was a High Priestess and Judge over the Jews.........just saying......... :)


yes the priest were men only. we are in the new covenant now where we dont need animals to be killed etc.
Jesus had hundrets and thousands of apostles. not just the twelve. you cant tell me they were only men, you werent there, nor is it written.
There is a difference about spiritual authority and authority in the household. As I have stated, the woman were bickering and arguing and with that, practicing authority over a man. If I preach the gospel and pray for men as well, I dont break Gods commandment.
 

lastofall

Senior Member
Aug 26, 2014
609
38
28
[for me anyway] we must learn to not think above that which is written, so that we not only avoid controversy, but also avoid exaggeration and over-estimation of the Word of God: it is the only way in which the intent of the Church is meant to be; namely that we all speak the same things, and there be no division among us; but that we be perfectly joined together in the same mind and the same judgment (1 Corinthians 1:10).
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,785
3,568
113
Wait.............Whut? Do you completely discount the Priestesses who lived in the days of the First Testament?

And, apparently you STILL do not understand that Priscilla was OVER at least ONE MAN who she (along with her husband) instructed that man into a more perfect understanding of the Gospel. And, yes, she did this IN CHURCH. For their Church was in their home where this instruction occurred.
Yes, she was part of the instruction along with her husband and it was done privately.
 
Aug 16, 2016
2,184
62
0
You will answer to God and He has made it clear in scripture that He does not want a woman in a position of authority over men in the church. I cannot imagine a woman of God deciding to go against God in order to serve God...if you want to serve God do what He says, to obey is BETTER then to sacrifice. A desire to be over others is usually from the flesh.
Everyone will answer to God including you. You will be judged by the same measure you judge others. As much as you're telling others to obey I hope for your sake you're obeying him in your life.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
Ladies,
We can be thankful there are people smart enough to never let some of the braying jackasses (males) we hear get into positions of power, themselves.
 
Feb 7, 2015
22,418
413
0
Ladies,
We can be thankful there are people smart enough to never let some of the braying jackasses (males) we hear get into positions of power, themselves.
Yes, that includes me. LOL
 
C

Colt45Bullet

Guest
No. That's my answer
 
D

Depleted

Guest
Lynn, I sincerely respect you, and I disagree with you. :)
S'alright. Kind of thought you might. (Except...really? Why do men let women in labor squeeze their hand? lol) And in like kind, I disagreed with Jerry. But disagreeing doesn't always have to mean "twisting scripture." We just, sometimes, get different ideas when we read it.
 
P

PinkDiamond

Guest
I find it interesting that some guys don't think that a Christian woman should ever instruct or counsel a man. While I do think it's the norm to have male ministers, I think we need to be open to special situations. I think that all Christians regardless of gender should be meek and humble enough to receive reproof or advice from anyone that has wisdom from God. It's a bad sign to me if a person can only receive instruction from someone they deem " worthy " enough. God used a donkey to stop Balaam from cursing Israel. He also has used small children. He used Samuel to reprove Eli the priest and prophesy the destruction on Eli's household. God can choose whatever medium or vessel he desires.
 
Last edited:
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
We hear this argument EVERY DAY in the BDF about this single word, & that is CONTEXT!

BOTH scriptures used against women say NOTHING about MINISTRY. They do, however speak about the family.

So, to those that cry aloud about women's places..... Find YOUR PLACE & study to show yourselves approved. Quit going on what others taught you all your life & read for yourselves!

Several translations have covered up female leaders in the church, with the KJV leading the way. King James & the Archbishop of Canterbury had a hand in it. They covered up female leadership, while lifting up man's position in the church to establish the church of England & the Archbishop's office as the highest in the church.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
Interesting question! One thing I know - I cannot counsel or teach my own husband. He actually, after my last sermon, said, that it "was ok" "with a few good points." As he is a master of understatement, this is high praise!

As for counselling, I have not done a lot as a pastor, but when I was working as a chaplain, I counselled men all the time. In fact, one widower whose wife of 70 years had just died, I spent a lot of time counselling and praying with him. But that sounded like a marriage that didn't need any help from me or anyone else. The man was grief stricken. I don't know how much longer he lasted.

I have counselled men of all ages. Talked about their issues, and their problems, and introduced them to Christ. I will say, I often offer counsel in the Family Forum, although face to face marriage counselling would be very different.

Basically, God's principles are the same in counselling, no matter whether it is a man or woman that is doing it. Plus, if I was to tell a woman to submit to her husband, she might listen more, if it was in context of a woman pastor. As for men that are overbearing, thinking they have the right to treat their wives terribly, they would probably not listen to me, either. I would pass those couples off to another pastor. There is nothing wrong with admitting in certain circumstances, I would not be the right person to do the job! Although, I would think that a good pastor would probably say the same things to an abusive husband as I do. And the pastors who tell their wives to go back into an abusive marriage, well, they are complicit in abuse and sometimes murder, which happens more often than most people would like to admit. (Yes, in the church! Sadly!)

Still, I cannot find any Bible verse that prohibits a woman from counselling a couple. Do you know one? In fact, the whole idea of "counselling" per se, is really not in the Bible, although their are some excellent principles that anyone who knows them can use.
Titus 2 really was my ut-oh moment. Funny thing -- me being me, I was already taking a course in counseling. (Jay Adams, who, I was already figuring out wasn't going to be a good way of counseling too. :eek:) But it was geared to family counseling, so I had to face the fact that sometimes it was going to be couples. Knowing a bit about Jay Adam's style, my guess, (because I can't remember all these decades later), would be if the couple had abusive issues, then tell the spouse being abused to get out/run! I wasn't really thinking of abusive relationships at all. More of couples who just aren't united.

And I just have no rights to counsel a married man about his marriage. I get that from my "role" in Titus 2. But, no, I don't see any verses picking out this one aspect of being a pastor other than going back to the whole assumption pastors are supposed to be guys. 1 Tim. 2:12 again, but I don't see the heart of this verse changing even if authority becomes closer to the word domineering. I kind of thought it meant domineering all along.

I also think that there is something to a woman in Christ always having a mantle -- a man to submit to. Someone who would protect her as needed. Someone who would teach us how to act like those Titus 2 women. (Both the young ones and the older ones.) Growing up, that was Dad. (He is the not-saved kind of Catholic. More into superstitions than believing the Bible means anything it says, but he still protected me and taught me some stuff about how to be a good woman.) Now that I'm married, the mantle went to hubby. But I was single in-between. And I had pastors that I considered my mantle. (Not always great mantles, but there was always this sense they'd duke it out with anyone who attacks me, if I but ask. lol)

One of those pastors/mantles had a wife. She taught me the finer art of being the Proverbs 31 woman. But her husband was the one who wouldn't let me go to any whim of theology, even if that meant confronting the stooge who tried.

I'm a big woman. I haven't needed as much protection as most simply because I let it known I'm not afraid to use my knee and elbow to defend myself, and I mean that. And being big, men can calculate speed of trajectory, so decide not to push it usually.

When John was in the hospital and then the nursing home, the not-Catholic chaplain came by every once in awhile. (Not very helpful since she had to counsel anyone but the Catholic, so she was cool if you believed in a god, no matter who that god was.) She was feisty, but all of about 4'9" and in her 50's, at least. (I'm thinking 60's, but people in their 50's don't want to be called older. lol) I could see her going on the offense if some charlatan tried to steal one of her sheep, but she'd lose.

I hate to sound chauvinistic, especially given I am a true feminist, (equal pay and women have equal rights), but I'd even prefer a man to be my mantle, knowing the dynamics of gender relationships. A 5'3" guy is more intimidating than most women. Even me. I'd feel more protected if I weren't married.

I do get, in most ways, a woman pastor is equal to a man pastor, but in a couple of ways, I think something is missing too. I think 1 Tim. 2 was good counsel to have in the whole of the Bible, because it continues to bring God's word forward even if we are a different culture. (And considering how wild women have become today, I also wonder if we're all that different.)

We really are the weaker vessels. Sure, we can hold as much liquid as a thicker vessel, but I just fell apart emotionally. I sense that weakness at several levels lately. I really do need a mantle.
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
Between the women's wisdom & some of the men's ignorance in this thread, one only needs to analyze the thread to see what's true. Carnal as that sounds, & I wouldn't reccommend this method, it still works.:)
 
Aug 15, 2009
9,745
179
0
Counseling, as well as any other ministry, ought to be Spirit-led, qualifying the individual, not school. School has its place, but most don't know where that place is.:)
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,785
3,568
113
I find it interesting that some guys don't think that a Christian woman should ever instruct or counsel a man. While I do think it's the norm to have male ministers, I think we need to be open to special situations. I think that all Christians regardless of gender should be meek and humble enough to receive reproof or advice from anyone that has wisdom from God. It's a bad sign to me if a person can only receive instruction from someone they deem " worthy " enough. God used a donkey to stop Balaam from cursing Israel. He also has used small children. He used Samuel to reprove Eli the priest and prophesy the destruction on Eli's household. God can choose whatever medium or vessel he desires.
Totally agree, but the question at hand is has God stated in His word that women should be pastors over a local house of God?
 

John146

Senior Member
Jan 13, 2016
16,785
3,568
113

Several translations have covered up female leaders in the church, with the KJV leading the way. King James & the Archbishop of Canterbury had a hand in it. They covered up female leadership, while lifting up man's position in the church to establish the church of England & the Archbishop's office as the highest in the church.
Can you post Scripture stating your claims? Thanks.
 
D

Depleted

Guest
Some do, mayhaps, many do, but not all..............too broad brush for me........just saying. :)

I know three, no, four Pastors who are wonderful Marriage Counselors. And not only for their own Congregations. Some people travel some distance to seek their Counseling.

The thing folks do not realize about Pastors is........they also are bestowed certain gifts. Some are wonderful at preaching the Word, but may not be great in other areas. Some are great at Church Building, but may not be great at ministering to the needs of the Congregation. Some are wonderful at Spiritual discernment and guidance, but may not be great as Administrators. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. What I have seen on more than one occasion is God place a Pastor in a certain Congregation which is in need of the gift that Pastor is best in.

Once their God given mission if filled, He may well lead them to another Congregation, and a new Pastor come in who has the gift to continue in the growth of that particular Congregation. God is truly in charge, and knows what is best for His Church.
When we speak of pastors, we speak of the biblical definition. aka "Shepherd." I come from a well organized denomination, (which just made me laugh that I like that and yet I am so disorganized lol), who has positions for every office. So, yeah, we have administrators, teachers, and pastors. BUT some of the smaller churches only have one person to do all of that. For those churches, I really do think the pastor has to be a pastor/shepherd AND a teacher. (I feel sorry for the ones who aren't administrators too, but I am sure someone in that church will have the gift of administration. I was that go-to person in one of our churches.)

If the pastor can't do all the jobs, I'm sure God has filled the need by bringing in someone gifted in that. BUT, that too is the problem I keep thinking is happen that brings up women pastors. There is a guy in that church that God chose for that spot, but he's not stepping up. Just like there is a person in every church that can administrative stuff and helps stuff. (1 Cor. 12 is where I get that idea from.)

We can't lay everything onto one person running the church. It's not a building. It's people/a body!