Women will be saved through Childbearing, if

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Whispered

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I have a simpler interpretation, the woman was deceived, but the man Loved the woman more than God and had to be exposed as a creation that could be shaken. God knew about the fall before it happened: before creating, and had to resolve to take the blame before creating. "The Lamb slain before the foundation of the world."
Also man being the head of His wife is aboult loving her as Christ loved the Church and gave Himself for her." To take the blame for the relationship. Without learning this from the Lord by the Holy Spirit, I would not have a wife waiting for me...
That interpretation works too.
 

Whispered

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wow, you think i haven't read this?
why would it matter to you if i have or not, since you teach that it's all rubbish anyhow?


And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle
— I am telling the truth, I am not lying —
and a true and faithful teacher of the Gentiles.
(1 Timothy 2:7)
when it is you who say Paul is not telling the truth, Paul is a false and unfaithful teacher, my dear, i rather think it is the validity of your 'points' about what's said in this little epistle that ought to be seen as questionable. how can someone who rejects it teach others about it?




what was it you were saying about naivety earlier?
:rolleyes:


https://www.christianheadlines.com/...hristians-more-likely-to-commit-adultery.html

https://blackchristiannews.com/2018...ry-premarital-sex-porn-and-other-sexual-sins/

https://www.focusonthefamily.com/marriage/divorce-rate-in-the-church-as-high-as-the-world/
Yes, see that's why trying to engage in an adult discussion about the scriptures with you will always turn into this.
You have an issue with being wrong. You'd rather use a broad brush to paint today's church with Paul's writing 2000 years ago because it serves your belief that women should be under a yoke of any kind as long as they are in a lesser position than men. Using God as the excuse that amounts to, it isn't me, God said it, here read Paul if you don't believe...., is transparent and weak. As are such men who think women were created to be less and dominated in any franchise by the male.

What will forever and always defeat those kind of men when they attempt to yarn on about the "role of women", in their own eyes alone, and exonerate poor misrepresented slandered Paul and his actual writings directed solely to the churches he founded and due to the culture in which they lived then, is that truism that rings eternal concerning we who are in the church.
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
 

Dino246

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If a woman ruling over men according to these circumstances is condemned by the prophet, how much more so when women rule over men from the pulpit. You can't avoid it, women ruling over men in any form is not God's plan.
Both, a woman ruling over the people of Israel, and Barak's 'beta' reaction to obeying God's command show that things are out of order from God's plan for his people.
Nobody's defending bad male leadership.
The issue is women are not allowed by God to be in leadership.
Circular reasoning at its finest.
 

Whispered

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that, as you know but don't care, would directly contradict 1 Timothy 2 -- how much of the NT do you reject?




how would they comprehend 'do not eat' if they had no concept of obedience?
your opinion that you are trying to teach is that God gave them a law they were 100% incapable of understanding, then punished them for disobeying it even though they hadn't even the first inkling of what obeying or disobeying even was? you don't think Adam or Woman even guessed there was a difference between doing what God said and not doing?


how stupid do you think this man was, who named every single animal and who walked with God in paradise and was the first type of Christ? how did God tell Adam, tend the garden, if Adam was too imbecilic & ignorant to even grok that God had given him an instruction?



if this was ultimately Adam's most grievous sin, why is it that God never chastised Adam for 'allowing Woman to eat of the tree' ?
perhaps because, as you teach, Adam had no capacity to understand what obedience would be or would consist of?
then how does God judge either one of them, if they're basically not accountable? you're portraying them as infants with no understanding at all.




if Woman 'had an excuse' of naivety are you saying God was unjust?
you teach that Adam was equally deceived - though the Bible teaches the opposite - so why in your opinion doesn't Adam have the same excuse?


you teach that they both had no concept whatsoever of obedience/disobedience -- which is complete naivety -- so
both Adam & Eve have what you call "an excuse" since neither had a clue whether they were being obedient or disobedient or even knew whether it was good to listen to God or not. you also teach that both were deceived. so how is it, in your opinion, that God is just to punish them?




so you're saying God was unjust to make Adam head over Woman?


let me see if i've got this straight, to sum up:
you say 1 Timothy is lies, Paul a false teacher.
you say Adam & Woman were pretty much retarded and didn't have any concept of right or wrong at all.
you say both Adam & Woman were deceived & witless victims.
you say God punished Woman's totally excusable ignorance and naivety by putting a worthless idiot man in charge of her. which, you say, is the same thing God did when He formed her out of the same man in the first place.


:unsure:

and you're a woman, supposing to teach us these things, correct?
do you think some modern feminist philosophies may possibly be coloring your opinion here?
Christian women are charged with being feminist when they tell prejudiced misogynist males that God's words don't teach people to be like them!

God sees you insisting He is the opposite of this:There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
 

Judges1318

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Christian women are charged with being feminist when they tell prejudiced misogynist males that God's words don't teach people to be like them!

God sees you insisting He is the opposite of this:There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.
posthuman destroyed your argument. I almost posted that I was going to just sit back and let him handle it from here. He contradicted every one of your arguments with the scriptures themselves. When a person like you looks at the scriptures and comes to the conclusion they mean the exact opposite of what they plainly say, what can we do with you?
 

Judges1318

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"There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."
4There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
7But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it.
11So Christ himself gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 12to equip his people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up - Ephesians 4:4,7,11


See, the reason we don't use Paul's statement about there being 'no male nor female, Jew or Greek' to defend women being equal to men in ministry is because the above passage explains that we are one in Christ, but each of us are different in regard to our roles in the Body of Christ.
 

Judges1318

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As I said, circular reasoning.
So you don't want to answer the question?
You know the answer. ;)
When woman rule, whether from the sidelines or in official capacities, men turn into weak, ineffective beta males.
The truth hurts sometimes, but it surely doesn't go away just because we choose to ignore it.
 

Dino246

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So you don't want to answer the question?
You know the answer. ;)
When woman rule, whether from the sidelines or in official capacities, men turn into weak, ineffective beta males.
The truth hurts sometimes, but it surely doesn't go away just because we choose to ignore it.
Your reasoning is circular, therefore you don't have a valid question that warrants an answer.
 

Judges1318

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Your point about 1 Corinthians 14:34-36 was based on a misreading of what I had said, on words that do not exist in that chapter, and on your interpretation of the meaning of 1 Timothy 2 (which I consider incorrect). Logically, your point is invalid on two if not all three of those bases. Exactly where is the misunderstanding you so confidently allege?
The contradiction is right in your own argument about 1 Corinthians 11:26-38.
You say vs. 26-33 says women CAN prophesy, speak, etc.
Then you acknowledge that vs. 34-38 means women can not.

I say that, too, but my argument--the one based on the whole context of scripture--explains it without creating a contradiction between the two parts of the passage. Your argument does not resolve the contradiction.
 

Dino246

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The contradiction is right in your own argument about 1 Corinthians 11:26-38.
You say vs. 26-33 says women CAN prophesy, speak, etc.
Then you acknowledge that vs. 34-38 means women can not.

I say that, too, but my argument--the one based on the whole context of scripture--explains it without creating a contradiction between the two parts of the passage. Your argument does not resolve the contradiction.
You have misunderstood my position, and put your own on a pedestal.
 

Judges1318

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Your reasoning is circular, therefore you don't have a valid question that warrants an answer.
Until you provide some kind of evidence of circular reasoning, my argument stands that a woman being in charge of Israel, and a military commander to wimpy to go into battle unless a woman goes with him signify the misplaced order of men and women among God's people. And it is shameful.

Later, even the prophet Isaiah shames the nation for being ruled by women. If there was nothing wrong with that, the prophet would not have included that in his condemnation of God's people.
 

Whispered

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and your opinion is that he's wrong?

your opinion is that the epistle to Timothy is false?

so it's not that you think the truth is 'different' now; you think the NT has been wrong all along? that Paul led the church at Corinth astray? that he gave them false teaching? that would mean all of Christendom has been wrong, up until now, now that you're here to fix it, wouldn't it?
All of that is your imagination. The Bible and Paul's words are clear.
 

stillness

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Walk trough the valley
Very brave of you to share that intimate part of your life with us. Thank you and bless you brother. May God continue to guide you and give you strength.
Thank you sister, you heard my hearts desire by the Holy Spirit: to receive prayer about what i admitted. As its writen, "Confess your faults one to another and pray one for another that you may be healed."
The Lord grant you patience with those who desire control, to leave our cares in God's hands, and for me also; understanding that we shall all receive according to our work.
 

Dino246

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Feel free to resolve the contradiction that I see in your argument.
Which part of "You have misunderstood my position" did you misunderstand?

There is no contradiction within my argument. Apparently you missed the switch where I transitioned from discussing my position to discussing the implication of yours.
 

Whispered

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Until you provide some kind of evidence of circular reasoning, my argument stands that a woman being in charge of Israel, and a military commander to wimpy to go into battle unless a woman goes with him signify the misplaced order of men and women among God's people. And it is shameful.

Later, even the prophet Isaiah shames the nation for being ruled by women. If there was nothing wrong with that, the prophet would not have included that in his condemnation of God's people.
It reads as if you're creating God in your image and likeness; Misogynist.
Just remember, when you argue in any capacity, including using God as the excuse for your thinking women are less than, the first person you're insulting in that bigoted framework is the first woman you encountered; your mother.

If women were of no use other than being a servant to men, God would have insured men gave birth to the future and would be able to sustain that new life from their own bodies.
Mothers Baby Father's Maybe.
The mother of a newborn is absolute source for that new life. The seed bearer can walk away and never be known or know that infant. But the mother, even if she gives that baby up for adoption moments after it is born, will forever be recorded as source of their life born into this world.
No thing weak there!
And by the way, in the Book of Ephesians, Paul says we are all one in Christ Jesus. There is no division due to culture, race, or gender.

That makes your argument for women being weak, subservient, etc.... your perspective alone.