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Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
Jul 19, 2014
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Philippines Age 40
Good point.

God was gloried when Lazarus was made well.

God's glory is connected to His goodness. We see this when Moses asks to see His glory, and God declares His goodness. And I've already discussed how His gifts in Scripture shows us His goodness.

Same as the blind man seen here:

John 9:1As he passed by, he saw a man blind from birth. 2And his disciples asked him, “Rabbi, who sinned, this man or his parents, that he was born blind?” 3Jesus answered, “It was not that this man sinned, or his parents, but that the works of God might be displayed in him. 4We must work the works of him who sent me while it is day; night is coming, when no one can work. 5As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world.” 6Having said these things, he spit on the ground and made mud with the saliva. Then he anointed the man’s eyes with the mud 7and said to him, “Go, wash in the pool of Siloam” (which means Sent). So he went and washed and came back seeing.

God's work is to loose people from darkness, including physical blindness as seen here. Yes, He also removes spiritual blindness as well. But His work as seen in this Scripture is connected with this man seeing and God's glory being displayed in him through it. And then He commissioned believers to do the same so the world might know the glory of God.

C.
God heals for His glory. He chooses not to heal also for His glory. It's all about Him and His plans so who are we to question those whom God does not heal?

Even when David repented, God did not heal his son. Is he punishing David? I will not assume that because I don't know God's mind but I know He loves David. It is for His glory.
 
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CharlieGrown

Guest
God heals for His glory. He chooses not to heal also for His glory. It's all about Him and His plans so who are we to question those whom God does not heal?

Even when David repented, God did not heal his son. Is he punishing David? I will not assume that because I don't know God's mind but I know He loves David. It is for His glory.
So, maybe we ask amiss?
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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God heals for His glory. He chooses not to heal also for His glory. It's all about Him and His plans so who are we to question those whom God does not heal?

Even when David repented, God did not heal his son. Is he punishing David? I will not assume that because I don't know God's mind but I know He loves David. It is for His glory.
Multiple NT Scriptures show God's glory is shown in healing. Which Scripture are you using to say God doesn't heal for His glory?

David's son was in the OT. I don't think this is a Scripture that refers to new creations in Christ. And it is definitely not a theology that we see in Christ's life. Whom only did what He saw His Father doing (which means His Father is healing) and He is our perfect representation of God on the Earth.
 
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CharlieGrown

Guest
Multiple NT Scriptures show God's glory is shown in healing. Which Scripture are you using to say God doesn't heal for His glory?

David's son was in the OT. I don't think this is a Scripture that refers to new creations in Christ. And it is definitely not a theology that we see in Christ's life. Whom only did what He saw His Father doing (which means His Father is healing) and He is our perfect representation of God on the Earth.
ah, but did Jesus heal everyone who sought Him?
 
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Asking the Lord for something in the flesh profits nothing.
Yeah, I pointed that out



If we have the mind of Christ and are listening to His voice, we know what is according to His will.
Not without the written Word of God you don't. Sorry.



many Christians stand in opposition to the WoF movement.
Yep, and they get so lathered up over attacking a "movement" that they start rejecting some of God's promises... and satan smiles.



perhaps you have doubt if you cannot cause a mountain to pick up its skirts and twaddle over to the sea?
Do you think Jesus was saying we could move physical mountains???

Ignorance gone to seed. You done left and got in to nutjob territory... riding a broom to a rubber room :rolleyes:



you WOF'ers quote those verses but they are NOT real in your own lives or we would not be having this conversaiton
You are clueless about my live and the victory I walk in after having fought many, many battles over the past 30+ years so don't play like you are clairvoyant because curious arts are forbidden by the Lord.



please show us the mountains and the empty hospitals
Just as I thought... you don't believe what Jesus said.



you are contradicting yourself here
Thank you for letting us know you are void of understanding. I sincerily hope you get the help you need...

See, you are are so much about attacking a so-called "movement" you forgot to actually accept and believe what Jesus taught.

Classic unbelief!
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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ah, but did Jesus heal everyone who sought Him?
Yes. And He didn't ever say it's not my Father's will for you to be healed. Or this sickness is for my Father's glory.

The only place we see Jesus not doing healings is because there was no faith in the area.

Here's what we DO see in Jesus' life:

Acts 10:38 how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power. He went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with him.
 
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CharlieGrown

Guest
The only place we see Jesus not doing healings is because there was no faith in the area.
My point. So now we're back to the topic which is all about the method. WoF healing/prosperity is executed by calling your words into reality. It is the opposite of faith in nature because it is all about "doing" and "saying". The predominate result is if you do not get healed or prosperous, it is on YOU and your lack of executing the method.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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I was just quoting Scripture and answering your question. Not talking about WoF.

Matt 13:58And he did not do many mighty works there, because of their unbelief.

If I told you I didn't believe God desires all to be saved because I don't see all saved, what would you tell me?

My point. So now we're back to the topic which is all about the method. WoF healing/prosperity is executed by calling your words into reality. It is the opposite of faith in nature because it is all about "doing" and "saying". The predominate result is if you do not get healed or prosperous, it is on YOU and your lack of executing the method.
 
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CharlieGrown

Guest
I was just quoting Scripture and answering your question. Not talking about WoF.

Matt 13:58And he did not do many mighty works there, because of their unbelief.

If I told you I didn't believe God desires all to be saved because I don't see all saved, what would you tell me?
I would tell you, with respect you have misinterpreted His will as evidenced in John 3:16.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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I would tell you, with respect you have misinterpreted His will as evidenced in John 3:16.
And what if I told you the word, "world" there is actually not for the entire world, but only those He has chosen? You have to understand the context in order to understand the meaning of John 3:16.

This is explained in detail by these theologians:

About the word, world, in Scripture, Abraham Kuyper, the Dutch theologian (1837-1920) wrote:
For if there is anything that is certain from a somewhat more attentive reading of Holy Scripture, and that may be held as firmly established, it is, really, the irrefutable fact, that the word, world, in Holy Scripture, means "all men" only as a very rare exception and almost always means something entirely different.

In explanation, specifically, of the "world" of John 3:16, Kuyper went on to say that the reference is to the "proper kernal" of the creation, the elect people of God, "which Jesus snatches away from Satan." out of this kernal, out this congregation, out of this people, a "new world," a "new earth and new heaven," shall one day appear, by a wonder-work of God. The earth does not merely serve to allow the elect to be saved, in order then to disappear. No, the elect are men; these men form a whole, a collection, an organism; that organism is grounded in creation; and because now this creation is the reflection of God’s wisdom and the work of His hands, God’s administration of it may not come to nothing, but in the Great Day God’s will with this creation shall be perfectly realized. (Dat De Genade Particulier Is (That Grace is Particular). My translation of the Dutch.)

Essentially the same is the interpretation of Arthur W. Pink (1886-1952):
Turning now to John 3:16, it should be evident from the passages just quoted that this verse will not bear the construction usually put upon it. "God so loved the world."Many suppose that this means, The entire human race. But "the entire human race" includes all mankind from Adam till the close of earth’s history: it reaches backward as well as forward! Consider, then, the history of mankind before Christ was born. Unnumbered millions lived and died before the Savior came to the earth, lived here "having no hope and without God in the world," and therefore passed out into eternity of woe. If God "loved" them, where is the slightest proof thereof? Scripture declares "Who (God) in times past (from the tower of Babel till after Pentecost) suffered all nations to walk in their own ways" (Acts 14:16). Scripture declares that "And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient" (Rom. 1:28). To Israel God said, "You only have I known of all the families of the earth" (Amos 3:2). In view of these plain passages who will be so foolish as to insist that God in the past loved all mankind! The same applies with equal force to the future . . . But the objector comes back to John 3:16 and says, "World means world. "True, but we have shown that "the world" does not mean the whole human family. The fact is that "the world" is used in a general way.. . Now the first thing to note in connection with John 3:16 is that our Lord was there speaking to Nicodemus, a man who believed that God’s mercies were confined to his own nation. Christ there announced that God’s love in giving His Son had a larger object in view, that it flowed beyond the boundary of Palestine, reaching out to "regions beyond." In other words, this was Christ’s announcement that God had a purpose of grace toward Gentiles as well as Jews. "God so loved the world," then, signifies, God’s love is international in its scope. But does this mean that God loves every individual among the Gentiles? Not necessarily, for as we have seen the term "world" is general rather than specific, relative rather than absolute. . . the "world" in John 3:16 must, in the final analysis refer to the world of God’s people. Must we say, for there is no other alternative solution. It cannot mean the whole human race, for one half of the race was already in hell when Christ came to earth. It is unfair to insist that it means every human being now living, for every other passage in the New Testament where God’s love is mentioned limits it to His own people — search and see! The objects of God’s love in John 3:16 are precisely the same as the objects of Christ’s love in John 13:1: "Now before the Feast of the Passover, when Jesus knew that His time was come, that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved His own which were in the world, He loved them unto the end." We may admit that our interpretation of John 3:16 is no novel one invented by us, but one almost uniformly given by the Reformers and Puritans, and many others since them. (The Sovereignty of God)
 
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The predominate result is if you do not get healed or prosperous, it is on YOU and your lack of executing the method
Yes, everyone know that if one does not receive healing that it's God's fault... He's holding out, or maybe He just doesn't like the person and wants them to suffer cause He's a mean God. </sarcasm>

One thing I've learned is... God is perfect and He is never at fault for anything, but people are the ones falling short of God's glory.

You guys need to very carefully study Mark 4:13-20 as it will explain WHY God's Word does not produce in someone's life... and also consider Gal 6:7,8 and understand that God gave man free will which satan is tricking man into not actually taking God's promises, correction, and instruction found in His Word to heart and instead just give a little lip service and go back to watching TV or play video games or anything other than learning and doing God's Word.

If we are just a hearer of His Word and not a doer... WE, we WE deceive our own selves... (James 1:22) or, we could make it easy on ourselves and follow preachers that teach it's all passed away and there ain't no mo healin anymore... that's the lazy way out and satan will led you to a nice fellowship with lots of folks who believe that who will coddle you with it until you are convinced.

And, when you get there don't both asking God to heal you o anybody cause He does not do anything for those who do not believe His promises. </soapbox>
 
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nowyouseem033

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2014
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Yeah, I pointed that out





Not without the written Word of God you don't. Sorry.





Yep, and they get so lathered up over attacking a "movement" that they start rejecting some of God's promises... and satan smiles.





Do you think Jesus was saying we could move physical mountains???

Ignorance gone to seed. You done left and got in to nutjob territory... riding a broom to a rubber room :rolleyes:





You are clueless about my live and the victory I walk in after having fought many, many battles over the past 30+ years so don't play like you are clairvoyant because curious arts are forbidden by the Lord.





Just as I thought... you don't believe what Jesus said.





Thank you for letting us know you are void of understanding. I sincerily hope you get the help you need...

See, you are are so much about attacking a so-called "movement" you forgot to actually accept and believe what Jesus taught.

Classic unbelief!
Classic heresy. Failure to make a distinction between gift of healing and healing. Failure to recognize physical healing and spiritual healing. Failure to discern whats obligatory and not. Failure to execute in reality that are supposedly promises. Biggest failure is not interpreting the text, and therefore bending it to suit your needs and wants.
 
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Classic heresy. Failure to make a distinction between gift of healing and healing. Failure to recognize physical healing and spiritual healing. Failure to discern whats obligatory and not. Failure to execute in reality that are supposedly promises. Biggest failure is not interpreting the text, and therefore bending it to suit your needs and wants.
Believe what you want... I'm healed and you are blind and delusional courtesy of the devil... the heresy is rejecting all of God's promises and belonging to Cherry-Pickers-R-Us

God's upholding all things by the word of His power (Hebrews 1:3) so I'll remain standing thank you very much!
 
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CharlieGrown

Guest
well, this went well...
 

nowyouseem033

Senior Member
Jul 17, 2014
535
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Believe what you want... I'm healed and you are blind and delusional courtesy of the devil... the heresy is rejecting all of God's promises and belonging to Cherry-Pickers-R-Us

God's upholding all things by the word of His power (Hebrews 1:3) so I'll remain standing thank you very much!
The biggest heresy is recognizing there isnt one. WOF that you believe is subjecting God to laws, therefore is bound and exalting man to the status of God by 'speaking promises (which arent promises) into existence'. Thats HERESY and way to diminish God to doing something you command him to do. Absolutely no respect. Essentially you make God to be your slave by willing him to do things he HAS to do. Disgraceful.
 

Cee

Senior Member
May 14, 2010
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The biggest heresy is recognizing there isnt one. WOF that you believe is subjecting God to laws, therefore is bound and exalting man to the status of God by 'speaking promises (which arent promises) into existence'. Thats HERESY and way to diminish God to doing something you command him to do. Absolutely no respect. Essentially you make God to be your slave by willing him to do things he HAS to do. Disgraceful.
This is an interesting view point. It presupposes that God has to be convinced to want to heal us. When Jesus' who is the perfect example of God showed us differently. So you make a theology that we don't see in Jesus' life. You make a distinction between healing and a "gift of healing" when Scripture doesn't. And you conclude the gifts are no longer for today without any Scripture support. And you call him a heretic?

C.
 
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The biggest heresy is recognizing there isnt one. WOF that you believe is subjecting God to laws, therefore is bound and exalting man to the status of God by 'speaking promises (which arent promises) into existence'. Thats HERESY and way to diminish God to doing something you command him to do. Absolutely no respect. Essentially you make God to be your slave by willing him to do things he HAS to do. Disgraceful.
I'm not commanding God to do anything... healing was HIS idea.... I simply receive and you don't.

This is no problem for me so blab n crab all you want... I don't care.
 
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CharlieGrown

Guest
It presupposes that God has to be convinced to want to heal us. When Jesus' who is the perfect example of God showed us differently.
C.
WoF in a nutshell.
 
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CharlieGrown

Guest
I'm not commanding God to do anything... healing was HIS idea.... I simply receive and you don't.

This is no problem for me so blab n crab all you want... I don't care.
So, there will never be a time when you do not "receive" right?
 
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WoF in a nutshell.
No, that's being a good child of the Most High God.... accepting His Word as a little child accepts what his parents teach.

I'll stand with the Lord and quit associating with those that CHOOSE unbelief which is seeing what God's Word says and choosing to not believe it.

It's the way of the blind and lazy :rolleyes:


So, there will never be a time when you do not "receive" right?
No, there will not. Not unless God's Word changes...

That's what satan is doing to those that choose to not believe God's promises... satan does what he did to Eve, which is "did God REALLY say...???" to present doubt and unbelief as an alternative to God's Word.
 
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