Word of Faith - a Look at what the Bible says!

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#521
#521
yes, it's all about the Joy and how much God would never hurt us or do anything but put a big ole smile on our faces

we'll just ignore this then:

Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father?

8If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all.

9Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live!

10They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness.

11No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

Hebrews 12


oh sure...no worries...no hardship...that's a lie of the devil said every WOF'er ever!

just don't even read that stuff!

on second thought, if discipline is from the Lord and He says that actually illustrates we are LEGITIMATE children , then is the opposite true?
 
Last edited:
C

CharlieGrown

Guest
#522
#522
LaurenTM said:
well look at the disciples...they wanted fire to rain down on unbelievers

do you suppose we would all be burned to a crisp for a WOF'er saying we called Jesus a liar?

I mean this stuff even SOUNDS stupid!
Click to expand...
It defies my finite ability at logic, imagine how omniscience would see it? Lol.
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#523
#523
CharlieGrown said:
It defies my finite ability at logic, imagine how omniscience would see it? Lol.
Click to expand...

yeah...ok

ok...Peter put the sword down...you are actually fighting against the will of God for me

I must suffer and die...so put that thing away

where's the ear? let's put that back on

and ultimately:

Father forgive them, because they do not know what they are doing
 
Cee

Cee

Senior Member
#524
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
#524
I have lost family members to sickness, so you're not telling me anything I haven't already experienced. But my experience doesn't form my theology. My theology informs my experiences.

I showed a Scripture already that the disciples prayed for a boy and he wasn't healed until Jesus prayed for him. People die it sucks, but Scripture tells us that when we pray in faith they will be healed. So who am I to disagree with it?

God said He desires none to perish - why doesn't everyone get saved?



LaurenTM said:
nice Cee, but not any sort of contradiction to the error of WOF

so it sounds like if someone points out the error of WOF they may have no faith?

well then no one is saved unless they preach WOF, right? cause that is the conclusion of what you seem to be saying

no faith = no salvation, right? because it is all about faith

what WOF does, is BLAME and SHAME

I guess when you pray and it does not go according to what you ask for, you have no faith

quite a quandry

so a Christian parent that is at the bedside of a child they love, dying of cancer, who has prayed their heart out and 'exercised' all their faith and yet their child dies, is to blame?

yes?...but never mind...just tell them God loves to answer prayer and they just need some joy
Click to expand...
 
Cee

Cee

Senior Member
#525
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
#525
Are you saying God allows us to get sick to discipline us? You do realize this Scripture is talking about enduring persecution right. Just like Jesus did.

LaurenTM said:
yes, it's all about the Joy and how much God would never hurt us or do anything but put a big ole smile on our faces

we'll just ignore this then:

Endure hardship as discipline; God is treating you as his children. For what children are not disciplined by their father?

8If you are not disciplined—and everyone undergoes discipline—then you are not legitimate, not true sons and daughters at all.

9Moreover, we have all had human fathers who disciplined us and we respected them for it. How much more should we submit to the Father of spirits and live!

10They disciplined us for a little while as they thought best; but God disciplines us for our good, in order that we may share in his holiness.

11No discipline seems pleasant at the time, but painful. Later on, however, it produces a harvest of righteousness and peace for those who have been trained by it.

Hebrews 12


oh sure...no worries...no hardship...that's a lie of the devil said every WOF'er ever!

just don't even read that stuff!

on second thought, if discipline is from the Lord and He says that actually illustrates we are LEGITIMATE children , then is the opposite true?
Click to expand...
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#526
#526
Cee said:
I have lost family members to sickness, so you're not telling me anything I haven't already experienced. But my experience doesn't form my theology. My theology informs my experiences.

I showed a Scripture already that the disciples prayed for a boy and he wasn't healed until Jesus prayed for him. People die it sucks, but Scripture tells us that when we pray in faith they will be healed. So who am I to disagree with it?

God said He desires none to perish - why doesn't everyone get saved?
Click to expand...

I agree with this..to a point

at the same time, you are presenting what may seem to be the 'opposing' will of God...He says He wants none to perish and yet not all are saved

if one is going to accept the will of God in ALL things, then faith IN God and trust IN God must be present

Scripture tells us that when we pray in faith they will be healed. So who am I to disagree with it?
Click to expand...
everyone is healed?

no one suffers?

there is a problem with that definition of faith
 
C

CharlieGrown

Guest
#527
#527
Cee said:
I have lost family members to sickness, so you're not telling me anything I haven't already experienced. But my experience doesn't form my theology. My theology informs my experiences.

I showed a Scripture already that the disciples prayed for a boy and he wasn't healed until Jesus prayed for him. People die it sucks, but Scripture tells us that when we pray in faith they will be healed. So who am I to disagree with it?

God said He desires none to perish - why doesn't everyone get saved?
Click to expand...
All we can say is what we know. All we know is what we experience, which comes from experimenting. If we think healing is carte blanc, we have or will soon have evidence to the contrary no matter how much faith. It sounds like a lack of faith but is it in fact true? Our ways (WoF) are not His ways (mysterious), our thoughts (experience based) are not His thoughts (a Will that is perfect). Just two more cents.
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#528
#528
Cee said:
Are you saying God allows us to get sick to discipline us? You do realize this Scripture is talking about enduring persecution right. Just like Jesus did.
Click to expand...
that is typical of trying to start some sort of personal confrontation here

you know very well I am not saying that at all

that is not an honest reply to what I posted nor is it an honest acceptance of what the Bible states
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#529
#529
the only logical conclusion of the WOF doctrine, must, by their own reasoning, conclude that Jesus was tortured by God and He did not have enough faith to avoid the cross
 
C

CharlieGrown

Guest
#530
#530
We haven't even yet touched on the truth that He knows EVERYTHING. He knows if you'll be saved, or not. He knows the day and the hour and the minute and the second we will pass from this life. Btw, at that particular moment if we are His, we will be 100% healed for eternity.
 
Cee

Cee

Senior Member
#531
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
#531
Suffering is not about sickness in Scripture. It's persecution.
Jesus suffered, but didn't die of sickness.
Paul suffered, but didn't die of sickness.
That example isn't in the Bible.
Sickness in the NT is actually explained as not discerning the Body.
There is no other reason given besides Jesus when He sets people free of Satan's bondage.

And what I'm presenting is that Scripture says God desires all to be saved.
But we know not all are. So my question is why not. If God controls everything like people claim in regards to healing, why doesn't it translate over into salvation?

LaurenTM said:
I agree with this..to a point

at the same time, you are presenting what may seem to be the 'opposing' will of God...He says He wants none to perish and yet not all are saved

if one is going to accept the will of God in ALL things, then faith IN God and trust IN God must be present



everyone is healed?

no one suffers?

there is a problem with that definition of faith
Click to expand...
 
Cee

Cee

Senior Member
#532
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
#532
I'm sorry, but when I brought up joy, you brought up this Scripture. Since we are talking about healing I figured you were making a connection.

So are you saying that God doesn't want us to have joy, but suffer? Well what's really intriguing is that Scripture teaches we can count suffering all joy. But once again suffering in Scripture is persecution. We are persecuted for our love. And in this love is perfected.

LaurenTM said:
that is typical of trying to start some sort of personal confrontation here

you know very well I am not saying that at all

that is not an honest reply to what I posted nor is it an honest acceptance of what the Bible states
Click to expand...
 
C

CharlieGrown

Guest
#533
#533
Cee said:
So my question is why not. If God controls everything like people claim in regards to healing, why doesn't it translate over into salvation?
Click to expand...
Is this introducing Calvinism into the discussion? I like to do that debate, but it's WoF in question here which in truth has many close characteristics of Calvinism...nah, let's not.
 
Cee

Cee

Senior Member
#534
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
#534
No, because as Christians we are called to be persecuted. Jesus died for love. Just as we do. Not to mention, Jesus was called to die and He knew it before He was killed. Faith actually allowed Him to die, I think. Because in the garden we see two opposing wills, He says if this cup can pass then let it be so, but if not let Your will be done. I don't see any contradiction.

LaurenTM said:
the only logical conclusion of the WOF doctrine, must, by their own reasoning, conclude that Jesus was tortured by God and He did not have enough faith to avoid the cross
Click to expand...
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#535
#535
Excellent question! According to what's being said we live in God's will no matter prayers so why are we told to pray or do anything? He doesn't work one way in an area and another in others.. Same all the way across
Cee said:
Suffering is not about sickness in Scripture. It's persecution.
Jesus suffered, but didn't die of sickness.
Paul suffered, but didn't die of sickness.
That example isn't in the Bible.
Sickness in the NT is actually explained as not discerning the Body.
There is no other reason given besides Jesus when He sets people free of Satan's bondage.

And what I'm presenting is that Scripture says God desires all to be saved.
But we know not all are. So my question is why not. If God controls everything like people claim in regards to healing, why doesn't it translate over into salvation?
Click to expand...
 
Tinkerbell725

Tinkerbell725

Senior Member
#537
Jul 19, 2014
4,216
1,179
113
Philippines Age 40
#537
Cee said:
Suffering is not about sickness in Scripture. It's persecution.
Jesus suffered, but didn't die of sickness.
Paul suffered, but didn't die of sickness.
That example isn't in the Bible.
Sickness in the NT is actually explained as not discerning the Body.
There is no other reason given besides Jesus when He sets people free of Satan's bondage.

And what I'm presenting is that Scripture says God desires all to be saved.
But we know not all are. So my question is why not. If God controls everything like people claim in regards to healing, why doesn't it translate over into salvation?
Click to expand...
Lazarus died from sickness. Healing is not only physical. Some people get spiritual healing because of their illness. When we pray about healing from illness, we just have to trust God's answer whether it's a yes or no because He knows what He is doing and we don't.


4 When he heard this, Jesus said, “This sickness will not end in death. No, it is for God’s glory so that God’s Son may be glorified through it.” 5 Now Jesus loved Martha and her sister and Lazarus. 6 So when he heard that Lazarus was sick, he stayed where he was two more days, 7 and then he said to his disciples, “Let us go back to Judea.”
 
H

HisHolly

Guest
#538
#538
Not sure and sure are different. If the word say are any sick let them go to the elders and be healed.. paraphrasing.. Then it HAS to be true.. Why doesn't it happen? That's for the individual to find out.. Gods word is perfect
CharlieGrown said:
I'm not sure that's correct.
Click to expand...
 
Cee

Cee

Senior Member
#539
May 14, 2010
2,169
473
83
#539
Yes, I agree He knows everything. We don't though, which is how I believe is how He allows free will to operate.

Scripture says He sees the end from the beginning. And we see beginning to end. It's a very interesting paradox. He knows who will choose life, but we don't.

Since the Son of Man has been lifted up all are drawn to Him.

John 12:31Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out. 32And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die.

Jesus knew the death He would die. His death cast out the ruler of this world. This is the actual judgment on Earth. The enemy has been judged. Jesus came to destroy his works, Jesus taught sickness is one of them. And His death draws all men to Him.

Where I depart from some theology is the thinking of irresistible grace. I believe God leaves room for Him to be chosen. Love is a free choice. And His death allows us the choice. And once we receive His love, we love others.



CharlieGrown said:
We haven't even yet touched on the truth that He knows EVERYTHING. He knows if you'll be saved, or not. He knows the day and the hour and the minute and the second we will pass from this life. Btw, at that particular moment if we are His, we will be 100% healed for eternity.
Click to expand...
 
C

CharlieGrown

Guest
#540
#540
HisHolly said:
Not sure and sure are different. If the word say are any sick let them go to the elders and be healed.. paraphrasing.. Then it HAS to be true.. Why doesn't it happen? That's for the individual to find out.. Gods word is perfect
Click to expand...
Not arguing the perfection of the word of God, just the idea that He point blank treats everyone the same.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.