Works and Salvation
- Thread starter iwant2serve
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
John 14:18-20 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while and the world seeth Me no more; but ye see Me: because I live ye shall live also. At that day ye shall know that I am in My Father, and ye in Me, and I in you.
If you are not in Christ you are lost and all the obedience to baptisms and religious rites in the world is not going to save you from the eternal condemnation of God.
God operates in men's hearts by the Holy Spirit. Saved people are the temple of God in which the Holy Spirit abides. It is the Holy Spirit that never leaves us but comforts, guides and teaches Gods truth to us.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
If you are not in Christ you are lost and all the obedience to baptisms and religious rites in the world is not going to save you from the eternal condemnation of God.
God operates in men's hearts by the Holy Spirit. Saved people are the temple of God in which the Holy Spirit abides. It is the Holy Spirit that never leaves us but comforts, guides and teaches Gods truth to us.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
E
you have to believe in a risen saviour, to be included in the new covenat. not law.
19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."20 The Jews then said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?"21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.22 So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.
But He was speaking of the temple of His body read in the bible after around 1500ad, jesus only talk to the crowd in parables .
prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of
what law save you. and what law are you to repent of.what law was a gentile given. acts 15.
you got your sign. by reading acts 10 if your a gentile. and acts 2 if your jewish. (to keep it short)hat through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness
19 Jesus answered them, "Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up."20 The Jews then said, "It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?"21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.22 So when He was raised from the dead, His disciples remembered that He said this; and they believed the Scripture and the word which Jesus had spoken.
But He was speaking of the temple of His body read in the bible after around 1500ad, jesus only talk to the crowd in parables .
prophets bear witness that through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness of
what law save you. and what law are you to repent of.what law was a gentile given. acts 15.
you got your sign. by reading acts 10 if your a gentile. and acts 2 if your jewish. (to keep it short)hat through His name everyone who believes in Him receives forgiveness
that is three questions.....what you fail to realize is ...only the person who is doing the repenting and God would know if they really repented.... Ephesians 4:28
Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
bro notice the order that these things happen and the word spoken......if you wish to follow your false doctrine that is your choice...
Acts 2:37-41King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth.
bro notice the order that these things happen and the word spoken......if you wish to follow your false doctrine that is your choice...
Acts 2:37-41King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
[SUP]40 [/SUP]And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
[SUP]41 [/SUP]Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.
Brother,
Let the word interpret the word.
1. In my interpretation, repent on this verse mean have a faith. doesn't a faith before and now have a faith in Jesus, it mean repent.
2. by the time we have a faith, we automatically baptize with the Father, Son and Holy spirit.
3. Water baptism mean nothing if they do like this
o you believe these core leader repent?[h=1]Missing girl 'buried in murdered mobster's tomb was kidnapped for Vatican sex parties', claims Catholic Church's leading exorcist priest[/h]
- Father Gabriel Amorth, 85, has carried out more than 70,000 exorcisms
- Previously said yoga and Harry Potter are 'the work of the Devil'
- Emanuela Orlandi, 15, went missing in Rome in 1983
- Gangster Enrico De Pedis's tomb opened last week after TV show tip-off
PUBLISHED: 06:32 EST, 22 May 2012 | UPDATED: 14:30 EST, 23 May 2012
View comments
Outspoken: Father Gabriel Amorth said the 15-year-old was kidnapped for Vatican sex parties
The Catholic Church's leading exorcist priest has sensationally claimed a missing schoolgirl thought to be buried in a murdered gangster's tomb was kidnapped for Vatican sex parties.
Father Gabriel Amorth, 85, who has carried out 70,000 exorcisms, spoke out as investigators continued to examine mobster Enrico De Pedis's tomb in their hunt for Emanuela Orlandi.
Last week police and forensic experts broke into the grave after an anonymous phone call to a TV show said the truth about Emanuela's 1983 disappearance would be 'found there'.
And although bones not belonging to the mobster were recovered they have not yet been positively identified as hers.
However Father Amorth, in an interview with La Stampa newspaper, said: 'This was a crime with a sexual motive.
'It has already previously been stated by (deceased) monsignor Simeone Duca, an archivist at the Vatican, who was asked to recruit girls for parties with the help of the Vatican gendarmes.
'I believe Emanuela ended up in this circle. I have never believed in the international theory (overseas kidnappers). I have motives to believe that this was just a case of sexual exploitation.
'It led to the murder and then the hiding of her body. Also involved are diplomatic staff from a foreign embassy to the Holy See.'
Today there was no immediate response from the Vatican to Father Amorth's claims.
But Vatican officials insisted they had always co-operated with the investigation into Orlandi's disappearance - a claim that her brother has often disputed.
Read more: Gabriel Amorth claims Emanuela Orlandi, 'buried in Enrico De Pedis tomb', was 'kidnapped for Vatican sex parties' | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Works follow salvation after a man has been recreated so that he may now do good works. Works are the basis of judgment, but not the basis of salvation. Salvation is not an award that one receives after God approves one's life-works at some judgment. Salvation is a new birth right now in this life with the promise of eternal life.
As Eph 2 explains:
2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
The unsaved have no good works. There is none who does good, no not one. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—
by grace you have been saved
— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For
by grace you have been saved through faith.
And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
For further light, read Romans 4.
As Eph 2 explains:
2:1 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind.
The unsaved have no good works. There is none who does good, no not one. All our righteousnesses are as filthy rags.
4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—
by grace you have been saved
— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For
by grace you have been saved through faith.
And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.
For further light, read Romans 4.
When oh when will some of the blind
understand that saving repentance is metanoia, which means
a change of mind.
It does not primarily mean being sorry or turning over a new leaf.
The change of mind that saves is from disbelief in the Savior to trust in the Savior.
The change of mind can be from whatever idol you worship & trust, to trusting the Savior.
That idol may be your imaginary good works or water as in immersion.
Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.
[No Water; No Works; No Being Sorry & Turning over a New Leaf]
understand that saving repentance is metanoia, which means
a change of mind.
It does not primarily mean being sorry or turning over a new leaf.
The change of mind that saves is from disbelief in the Savior to trust in the Savior.
The change of mind can be from whatever idol you worship & trust, to trusting the Savior.
That idol may be your imaginary good works or water as in immersion.
Believe on the Lord Jesus, and you shall be saved.
[No Water; No Works; No Being Sorry & Turning over a New Leaf]
L
"The law is holy but it has no power to make anyone holy" Faith by itself is where it all begins and ends. Jesus did all the works and whatever works we do after salvation is because of HIM Who wills in us to will and to do of His good pleasure. We take no credit for any of the works we do because it is Christ in us that worketh.
It is a major confusion for Christians to actually believe they are capable to be successful in their obedience to God apart from the working of the Holy Spirit.
We have been forgiven - not based on our knowledge of all of our sins., but God's knowledge of all our sins., He knows the extent of our sin much more completely than we ever could or would or will. That is why we have to know Jesus paid for ALL our debt and we are forgiven all our sins ...past.... present and future. APART from (our) works... APART FROM.
All our failures are under the blood. Not only for the sure salvation He gives, but for our sure fellowship we have because of Jesus Christ. Our relationship with God doesn't change because it is not based on nor was it ever based on what we do., but on what Jesus Christ did - and God approved.,
We don't dance in and out of favor with the Father like some kind of square dance... in we go... annnnddd out we go....in we go ...annddd out we go. Our Father has not made salvation and relationship so weak as to be subject to our earthly failures or the failures of earthly priests who needed to continually make sacrafices to God for the sins of himself and the people. Faith is the work we do., faith in Jesus finished work for our security with God the Father. Faith is the law we are under now., not the OT Mosaic law.
Yet so many Christians believe that is the relationship they have with God. They don't think of God as their Father at ALL times. They think God is holding some kind of wrath over their heads and will be ready to drop it as soon as they mis-step in sin whether in word or deed or heart attitude. They don't understand that God took all the wrath and holy indignation He had against sin and put in on His Holy innocent Son. Our sins were "imputed" to Jesus who knew no sin, He never could or would sin. The spotless Lamb.
Then the righteousness Jesus has was "imputed" to us who had sinned, did and do sin.
In order to have peace from day to day we have to have a solid foundation of our position in Christ before God the Father. (our Father) He never stops being our Father. And that is because if we have accepted Jesus Christ as our Saviour HE goes before us and makes intercession at all times (FOREVER) for us because we are now part of the Beloved. Jesus is our Great High Priest. What Jesus did on the cross was complete enough to secure our relationship with God to make the relationship go from a Holy God who has to see justice, to a loving God the Father Who has approved of the complete sacrafice of His Son to be 100% enough to meet the just and holy requirement of the law needed to allow humankind to now be accepted in the Beloved.
Works are a mere by-product from the child of God who seeks to live a life of thankfulness (our reasonable service) and worship as God reveals more of Jesus Christ to us. As we behold Jesus Christ will be the extent of our ability to be like Him. And yet through the journey we are not condemned. What a deal!!!!! The salvation is all done completely by Jesus Christ. If anyone tries to add to that they are mistaken and yoked with tons of chains they have already been freed from. - guilt, shame, condemnation., We can't pay for our sins when Jesus already did.
A Christian's obedience will not be perfectly sinless. But as long as he continues to walk in the light and not quit, Christ's blood will continue to cleanse away all sins - all imperfections in obeying. It is not impossible for a Christian to walk in the light for if it were then no one could be saved.
Brother,
Let the word interpret the word.
1. In my interpretation, repent on this verse mean have a faith. doesn't a faith before and now have a faith in Jesus, it mean repent.
2. by the time we have a faith, we automatically baptize with the Father, Son and Holy spirit.
3. Water baptism mean nothing if they do like thiso you believe these core leader repent?
Missing girl 'buried in murdered mobster's tomb was kidnapped for Vatican sex parties', claims Catholic Church's leading exorcist priest
PUBLISHED: 06:32 EST, 22 May 2012 | UPDATED: 14:30 EST, 23 May 2012
Outspoken: Father Gabriel Amorth said the 15-year-old was kidnapped for Vatican sex parties
The Catholic Church's leading exorcist priest has sensationally claimed a missing schoolgirl thought to be buried in a murdered gangster's tomb was kidnapped for Vatican sex parties.
Father Gabriel Amorth, 85, who has carried out 70,000 exorcisms, spoke out as investigators continued to examine mobster Enrico De Pedis's tomb in their hunt for Emanuela Orlandi.
Last week police and forensic experts broke into the grave after an anonymous phone call to a TV show said the truth about Emanuela's 1983 disappearance would be 'found there'.
And although bones not belonging to the mobster were recovered they have not yet been positively identified as hers.
However Father Amorth, in an interview with La Stampa newspaper, said: 'This was a crime with a sexual motive.
'It has already previously been stated by (deceased) monsignor Simeone Duca, an archivist at the Vatican, who was asked to recruit girls for parties with the help of the Vatican gendarmes.
'I believe Emanuela ended up in this circle. I have never believed in the international theory (overseas kidnappers). I have motives to believe that this was just a case of sexual exploitation.
'It led to the murder and then the hiding of her body. Also involved are diplomatic staff from a foreign embassy to the Holy See.'
Today there was no immediate response from the Vatican to Father Amorth's claims.
But Vatican officials insisted they had always co-operated with the investigation into Orlandi's disappearance - a claim that her brother has often disputed.
Read more: Gabriel Amorth claims Emanuela Orlandi, 'buried in Enrico De Pedis tomb', was 'kidnapped for Vatican sex parties' | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
Let the word interpret the word.
1. In my interpretation, repent on this verse mean have a faith. doesn't a faith before and now have a faith in Jesus, it mean repent.
2. by the time we have a faith, we automatically baptize with the Father, Son and Holy spirit.
3. Water baptism mean nothing if they do like this
o you believe these core leader repent?Missing girl 'buried in murdered mobster's tomb was kidnapped for Vatican sex parties', claims Catholic Church's leading exorcist priest
- Father Gabriel Amorth, 85, has carried out more than 70,000 exorcisms
- Previously said yoga and Harry Potter are 'the work of the Devil'
- Emanuela Orlandi, 15, went missing in Rome in 1983
- Gangster Enrico De Pedis's tomb opened last week after TV show tip-off
PUBLISHED: 06:32 EST, 22 May 2012 | UPDATED: 14:30 EST, 23 May 2012
View comments
Outspoken: Father Gabriel Amorth said the 15-year-old was kidnapped for Vatican sex parties
The Catholic Church's leading exorcist priest has sensationally claimed a missing schoolgirl thought to be buried in a murdered gangster's tomb was kidnapped for Vatican sex parties.
Father Gabriel Amorth, 85, who has carried out 70,000 exorcisms, spoke out as investigators continued to examine mobster Enrico De Pedis's tomb in their hunt for Emanuela Orlandi.
Last week police and forensic experts broke into the grave after an anonymous phone call to a TV show said the truth about Emanuela's 1983 disappearance would be 'found there'.
And although bones not belonging to the mobster were recovered they have not yet been positively identified as hers.
However Father Amorth, in an interview with La Stampa newspaper, said: 'This was a crime with a sexual motive.
'It has already previously been stated by (deceased) monsignor Simeone Duca, an archivist at the Vatican, who was asked to recruit girls for parties with the help of the Vatican gendarmes.
'I believe Emanuela ended up in this circle. I have never believed in the international theory (overseas kidnappers). I have motives to believe that this was just a case of sexual exploitation.
'It led to the murder and then the hiding of her body. Also involved are diplomatic staff from a foreign embassy to the Holy See.'
Today there was no immediate response from the Vatican to Father Amorth's claims.
But Vatican officials insisted they had always co-operated with the investigation into Orlandi's disappearance - a claim that her brother has often disputed.
Read more: Gabriel Amorth claims Emanuela Orlandi, 'buried in Enrico De Pedis tomb', was 'kidnapped for Vatican sex parties' | Daily Mail Online
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
new covenant. already believes in jesus. there must be contact between a jew and a gentile.
your time line to believe, started at the first gentile. jewish ie pentecost. ie being call christain.
acts 10 was he call to repent.
you say repent of law. i say what law. because acts 15 all ready proves this. this law is not the same as the law of moses, no matter what you quote , or say in words.
in simple terms, are you trying to make gentiles jewish.
your time line to believe, started at the first gentile. jewish ie pentecost. ie being call christain.
acts 10 was he call to repent.
you say repent of law. i say what law. because acts 15 all ready proves this. this law is not the same as the law of moses, no matter what you quote , or say in words.
in simple terms, are you trying to make gentiles jewish.
Acts 8 first gentile....
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
[SUP]37 [/SUP]And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Matthew 10:5
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
The Samaritans were not considered Jews....and the gospel was preached to them before Acts 10...
Acts 8:25King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.
[SUP]26 [/SUP]And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
[SUP]27 [/SUP]And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
[SUP]28 [/SUP]Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
[SUP]30 [/SUP]And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
[SUP]31 [/SUP]And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
[SUP]33 [/SUP]In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
[SUP]34 [/SUP]And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
[SUP]35 [/SUP]Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
[SUP]36 [/SUP]And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
[SUP]37 [/SUP]And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
Matthew 10:5
These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
The Samaritans were not considered Jews....and the gospel was preached to them before Acts 10...
Acts 8:25King James Version (KJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.