Works Complete Faith?

[romans113336]

In an Olympic race, all run in the race, but only one receives a gold medal. That does not mean those who do not receive a gold medal are disqualified from the Olympics. So, runners in the Olympics may receive a corruptible crown, but believers/Christians may receive an incorruptible crown and the Bible mentions 5 different crowns. The crown of righteousness, the crown of rejoicing, the crown of glory, the crown of life and the incorruptible crown. (On the head of Jesus were said to be "many crowns" in Revelation 19:12).

In 1 Corinthians 9:27, Paul is talking about being disqualified for the prize (NIV) and not disqualified for the gift of eternal life. In context, Paul has been discussing preaching the gospel. In verse 18 he says, "What is my reward, then?" In verses 24-27 he illustrates this thought of his reward by the picture of a race run for the prize. Salvation is a gift that we receive by grace through faith, (Ephesians 2:8,9) and not a prize that we race for, win and earn.

Prize (brabeion) - the prize awarded to a victor, the reward (recognition) that follows triumph. That does not sound like a free gift to me. (Romans 6:23; Ephesians 2:8) 1 Corinthians 3:14-15 mentions - If the work that anyone has built on the foundation survives, he will receive a reward. If anyone's work is burned up, he will suffer loss, (of reward) though he himself will be saved.

1 Corinthians 9:24 - "Do you not know that those who run in a race ALL run, but ONLY ONE receives the prize? Run in such a way that you may obtain it." In an Olympic race, all runners run but only one receives the gold medal. So, what happens to the runners that receive the silver medal or bronze medal or finish the race with no medal? Are they disqualified from the Olympics or for the prize? Everyone who falls short of winning a gold medal is not disqualified from the Olympics.

Paul does not seem to indicate any insecurity about his position - Finally, there is laid up for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to all who have loved His appearing. (2 Timothy 4:8)

Oops, he says "crown of life"--that's the "reward" that's at stake in 1 Co 9:27, where he keeps his body under, as in Ro 8:12,13, where those who walk after the flesh will die and not live.

Instead of speculating about what the meanings of words (ie, "prize") might or might not be, just look at the text that follows, where he explains precisely what his words mean!

"I could become disqualified for the prize if I don't control my body--just like the Jews who sinned after being saved, baptized, and eating communion, and, so, fell under God's wrath and forfeited the Promise God made them."

No, don't look there! That's dangerous! You might have to change your mind! You can't believe those words! DON'T READ THEM! No! Noooooooo! Lol

 

[selahsays]

"Should" doesn't mean "certainly will" does it?

Oh, I see what you mean now.

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

- Ephesians 2:7-10 (KJV)

It is clear to me that salvation is by grace and a gift of God. Paul teaches that works cannot save us. I believe our good works are only a result of our salvation.

…selah

 

[mailmandan]

Oh, I see what you mean now.

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

- Ephesians 2:7-10 (KJV)

It is clear to me that salvation is by grace and a gift of God. Paul teaches that works cannot save us. I believe our good works are only a result of our salvation.

…selah

Amen! The AMPC version explains it well. Ephesians 2:8 it is by free grace (God’s unmerited favor) that you are saved (delivered from judgment and made partakers of Christ’s salvation) through [your] faith. And this [salvation] is not of yourselves [of your own doing, it came not through your own striving], but it is the gift of God; 9 Not because of works [not the fulfillment of the Law’s demands], lest any man should boast. [It is not the result of what anyone can possibly do, so no one can pride himself in it or take glory to himself.]

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ephesians 2:8-9&version=AMPC

 

[romans113336]

Oh, I see what you mean now.

That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

- Ephesians 2:7-10 (KJV)

It is clear to me that salvation is by grace and a gift of God. Paul teaches that works cannot save us. I believe our good works are only a result of our salvation.

…selah

Well, in the context of our conversation, here, we were only dealing with whether good works will certainly flow from faith. Whether works save us, whether we think we're saving ourselves (which would naturally lead to working with fear), was not the question. That is a different question.

 

[selahsays]

1 Co 9:27-1 Co 10 addresses this error. They'd been saved, baptized, and "ate communion", but lived sinfully afterwards, and fell under Gods wrath a d forfeited the Promise made them. Paul says this same set of circumstances (saved, baptized, eating communion) applies to us, and sinning can result in damnation and forfeiting the Promise made us.


This explanation won't work, because his entire point is people who were in the correct way but leave the correct way.


It is referring to the fact that God "forgets righteousness", according to Ezekiel. In the NT, that means if you don't continue, your "faith counted as righteousness" is forgotten, you're blotted out of the Book of Life. "They went out to prove they were never of us" because your righteousness is forgotten.


Lol either that or people can fall away from faith--which is a ubiquitous doctrine in Scripture, and is the very thing I've been proving throughout this thread.

Well, in the context of our conversation, here, we were only dealing with whether good works will certainly flow from faith. Whether works save us, whether we think we're saving ourselves (which would naturally lead to working with fear), was not the question. That is a different question.

Please help me out here. What is it you and I aren’t on the same page about?

 

[selahsays]

Ah. @romans113336 You want to know if a saved person can lose his salvation.

Well, aside from committing the unpardonable sin, I say, “No.”

 

[romans113336]

Ah. @romans113336 You want to know if a saved person can lose his salvation.

Well, aside from committing the unpardonable sin, I say, “No.”

No, I don't "want to know"; this thread has been sharing what we're taught on that and other matters.
You can select any statement I made on the matter, and respond to it.
For instance, 1 Co 9:27-1 Co 10 says Paul kept his body in control or else he would be "disqualified", and explains what that means: the Jews, also, were "saved by the blood of lambs", and "baptized", and "ate communion", as a type and shadow of Christians, and, yet, they did not control their flesh, but lived in sin, and, so, fell under God's wrath and forfeited the promise God made to them, just as we can fall under God's wrath and forfeit the promise God made to us if we live in sin.

 

[selahsays]

No, I don't "want to know"; this thread has been sharing what we're taught on that and other matters.
You can select any statement I made on the matter, and respond to it.
For instance, 1 Co 9:27-1 Co 10 says Paul kept his body in control or else he would be "disqualified", and explains what that means: the Jews, also, were "saved by the blood of lambs", and "baptized", and "ate communion", as a type and shadow of Christians, and, yet, they did not control their flesh, but lived in sin, and, so, fell under God's wrath and forfeited the promise God made to them, just as we can fall under God's wrath and forfeit the promise God made to us if we live in sin.

. . . . .
Consider the following scriptures once again:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

- John 3:16-17 (KJV)

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

- 1 John 3:9 (KJV)

Now then, we all sin; even Paul. But when we sin, we repent and our gracious God promises to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Continual sinners cannot be real Christians.

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

- 1 John 2:15-19 (KJV)

 

[cv5]

Oops, he says "crown of life"--that's the "reward" that's at stake in 1 Co 9:27, where he keeps his body under, as in Ro 8:12,13, where those who walk after the flesh will die and not live.

Nope. Try again buddy.

 

[romans113336]

. . . . .
Consider the following scriptures once again:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

- John 3:16-17 (KJV)

Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

- 1 John 3:9 (KJV)

Now then, we all sin; even Paul. But when we sin, we repent and our gracious God promises to forgive us and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Continual sinners cannot be real Christians.

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever. Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

- 1 John 2:15-19 (KJV)

It says he doesn't continue in sin because his seed remain in him, but there're instances of people rejecting the seed, so, again, that doesn't help your position.

 

[romans113336]

Nope. Try again buddy.

Yep. No need.

 

[Inquisitor]

Yep. No need.

Has anyone ever been able to stop sinning?

 

[romans113336]

Has anyone ever been able to stop sinning?

I haven't given it much thought.
At this moment, I don't believe in "sinless perfectionism", though Paul says his conscience was clear of any sin, and Peter speaks of those who have "ceased sinning". Just some things one should consider. However, even Apostle John admitted to sinning.

 

[selahsays]

It says he doesn't continue in sin because his seed remain in him, but there're instances of people rejecting the seed, so, again, that doesn't help your position.

They were never true Christians. That’s the only answer.

 

[romans113336]

They were never true Christians. That’s the only answer.

Nope, if they leave, God "forgets" their righteousness as Ezekiel says.

 

[selahsays]

Nope, if they leave, God "forgets" their righteousness as Ezekiel says.

Why did they leave?

 

[romans113336]

Why did they leave?

The Galatians, for instance, were deceived for instance and were breaking the command, thus not abiding in Him.

 

[John146]

Has anyone ever been able to stop sinning?

In Christ, I am sinless. I am not guilty. In this body of flesh, I sin daily.

 

[romans113336]

In Christ, I am sinless. I am not guilty. In this body of flesh, I sin daily.

Nope, there's no such thing as a "sin" than "spiritual slavery", says Jesus, so your spirit is involved when your flesh sins.

 

[John146]

Nope, there's no such thing as a "sin" than "spiritual slavery", says Jesus, so your spirit is involved when your flesh sins.

Are you in Christ? Did Christ sin? No, then you are sinless. You are righteous because he is righteous. Any other way depends upon man's righteousness. If that is true, man is doomed.