Works error

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Benadam

Well-known member
Aug 14, 2019
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#42
A person in Christ has already avoided hell . Being sealed by the Holy Spirit ensures this . I don't disagree with the rest of what you say .
I get your meaning
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#43
Do you believe ceasing from sinning is the fruit of the Spirit?
A person can sin In the flesh because our flesh Is not yet perfect but they will be In the process of renewing their minds to be like the new creation they have become so then they don’t want to sin but they aren’t perfect and will still sin so then they will display spiritual fruit as they continue and anything that Is not good will be burned.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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#44
No that's a false Gospel message .
According to Romans 8:7, the spirit is at odds with the flesh. As such, if you believe in the flesh and sin, you are then at odds with the spirit of God.
The gospel of Christ is to love God and love your neighbor. These are spiritual qualities and belief.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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#45
No offense towards you but I wanted to make sure I understand your statement.
when you say Did you mean that refraining from sin Is doing evil works or did you mean sinning Is doing evil works?💯
Yeah, I didn't really clarify my point well in the OP. What I was saying is that while many see not sinning as a work in order to attain salvation, I on the other hand do not see refraining from sinning as a work. Someone else, however, pointed out Romans 12:1 where Paul does mention our offering our bodies as a living sacrifice (which I understand to be refraining from sinning), as a reasonable service in order to be accepted by God. If therefore refraining from sinning is a reasonable service, it then does constitute a work.

And yes to sin is an evil work.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
790
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#46
Do you believe ceasing from sinning is the fruit of the Spirit?
We are to overcome our carnal inclinations, and the Lord's sacrifice makes this possible for those of us who wish to take advantage and leave our sins to which we were previously bound. So yes, I do believe that ceasing from sinning is fruit of the Spirit, but only its basic first result. Further advanced fruit of the Spirit (after we leave our sins) are beneficial results to others.
 

luigi

Junior Member
Dec 6, 2015
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#47
The condition would be on us and not on GOD.GOD looks at the heart and GOD IS Perfect and GOD IS a SPIRIT so then GOD does not need to see physical works But man does need to see physical works to know If the person Is sincere.No man can just use his mind to see what someone Is thinking to convince someone that he Is sincere ,he has to display works that are seen first then felt.
This Is our part talking about renewing our minds to match our new selves.Like I said when we received salvation GOD accepted us and HE IS Perfect so then we don’t have to do works to be accepted by GOD and this Is a One time event.

If a person Is not In the VINE they can not receive nourishment from the VINE.
How can a corrupt tree that sins often, produce good fruit? It can't.

Matthew 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Luke 6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
 
Dec 9, 2011
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#48
How can a corrupt tree that sins often, produce good fruit? It can't.

Matthew 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

Luke 6:43 For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
If the Spirit has been created new then to GOD that Spirit Is no longer a corrupt tree because they are now just In GODs sight and their Spirit made perfect and they will seek to purify themselves even as they are pure but If a persons Spirit has not been created perfect by GOD then they Are corrupt and not justified by GOD.

GOD In CHRIST IS the VINE we are members of the body (the branches)receiving sustenance from the VINE displaying spiritual fruit.
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
5,017
981
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#49
According to Romans 8:7, the spirit is at odds with the flesh. As such, if you believe in the flesh and sin, you are then at odds with the spirit of God.
The gospel of Christ is to love God and love your neighbor. These are spiritual qualities and belief.
That's not what Romans 8 is saying .
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#50
A person can sin In the flesh because our flesh Is not yet perfect but they will be In the process of renewing their minds to be like the new creation they have become so then they don’t want to sin but they aren’t perfect and will still sin so then they will display spiritual fruit as they continue and anything that Is not good will be burned.
They don't want to sin but they do.
Unsave don't care about sin and they do.
So save become better and better
Unsave never better.

But both are do sin
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#51
Agreed in so far that the Bible makes every effort to tell people to not sin. So, yes, do not walk in the flesh but walk in the Spirit. (Galatians 5:16-25)

I would elaborate on that warning in Matthew 7:22 using the qualifier "never." So it's dependent on whether or not Jesus ever knew someone. I think it separates those who have book smarts about Jesus from those who sincerely believe in him in their heart. Those who pay lip service only from those who draw near with their heart. Those who practice works-salvation from those justified by faith.
It is possible to be genuinely saved and to also be educated. When God saved me, the first thing he told me was to read my Bible. I quickly developed the habit of reading from the OT and NT, which I still do, 40 years later. I also read the Bible in other languages, like French and German, and also in Koine Greek and Biblical Hebrew. After 25 years of that, I was still hungry to know more of Christ, and God called me to seminary. After I finished my MDiv, I took a break because my RA had gotten worse, then started my PhD in theology. At first it was very hard to understand. But now it is a constant joy to read my Bible, and to learn about God, as well as walking with him.

My entire relationship with God is based on him, not me. But what a marvellous gift God gave me when he called me to higher learning. God commands us to walk in his ways, and learning is part of that.

I don't know why people are so anti-education. Yes, there are bad seminaries. But there are also many Bible centred seminaries and theological institutes. It's easy to figure out which is which.

There was a man in my seminary, who also came from my city. We had to drive 3 1/2 hours one way to get there. He went to a church that was a stone's throw from his
Denomination's seminary, and supported that seminary. When I asked him why he didn't go there, he had a long list of biblical principles that seminary didn't believe in. He decided he was going to join my Baptist denomination that ran the seminary, far away. I will say, I took a few transfer courses and they were excellent. The world religions prof was a visiting professor, with a PhD in anthropology. Normally, he was a missionary in Malaysia. He ministers to tribal head hunters, and most of them came to Christ. He also had a ministry to Muslims, and had very interesting stories about how God led the Muslims to Christ. I guess you have to be very dedicated to be an evangelist and reach the people he did.

Which is to say, don't put down education. There are many educated people with a real passion to know and serve God. If God didn't call you, of course you should not go! All I know is that God called me, and I have grown so much stronger in my faith. And it was never weak, in the first place, after the miracle God did, saving me.

"Study to show yourself approved unto God, a worker that need not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Tim 2:15
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#52
And beyond that, we are required to be in relationship, not merely know 'about" Jesus, nor settle for going to a place once a week and hearing someone talk "about" Jesus, we are to be in personal, vital, relationship with Him with every thought, word and deed, just as we will in and for eternity, the remaining time we have here He indwells the believer and guides, speaks and shows us all truth via Holy Spirit. Remember how He told us, "My sheep know my voice" ? He didn't say "My sheep read my book" or "My sheep listen to someone talk about me". blessings
John 17:3 - And this is eternal life, that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent (which is an intimate, experiential knowledge, found only in a relationship). The term "know" implies intimate, experiential knowledge, through a relationship with Him and not merely theoretical knowledge.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#54
While many believe that refraining from continuing to sin as doing works to attain salvation; in reality refraining from continuing to sin is to refrain from doing evil works. You are not doing any works whatsoever by refraining to do evil works.
However, by refraining to continue sinning, which is doing evil works, you are then commencing to overcome your sins, by which reason the Lord will then be more readily available to perform good works through you.
Who believes refraining from sin is works salvation?

for 1. John said a man born of God can not do it

second, it’s only works salvation if you are doing it to earn or maintain (not lose) salvation
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#55
Hello Deutronomy, I agree that there is nothing we can do to save ourselves, and that salvation is through faith in Christ. That, however, is not the topic. The topic is the belief many have that if they were to cease their sinning, it would mean their doing a good work to attain salvation, when in fact ceasing from sinning is not any work at all.
Who can cease from sin? If we say we have no sin we decieve ourselves,

in my view a person who claims they have or can cease from all sin is decieved.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#56
I agree that we all currently sin, but we are also to continue attempting to overcome our carnal inclinations (sins). Those of us who earnestly continue attempting to overcome their carnal inclinations (sins), the Lord I believe will deliver them.
Then there are those who use the excuse that they are incapable of overcoming their sins, because they truly love their sins, and so will never make an earnest attempt at leaving their sins. These individuals are those whom the Lord will reject, declaring them workers of iniquity.

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Why not rely on God to help you, not continually try to do it of your own power?

what happen to the rest God promised,

I am confused why some think God has given us rest, then tells us to start working hard again?
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#57
An original definition of sin was where when someone aimed at a target and missed, it was a sin. Basically, to sin is to miss the correct target in life. As such, I can agree with your claim that failing to do good works is to miss the mark.
Amen

and what is the mark?

the mark God set is perfection,

and we have all failed to miss this mark of perfect love,

for all have sinned and fall short
 

shittim

Senior Member
Dec 16, 2016
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#58
Salvation is the beginning. we are commanded to heal, cleanse, raise, preach, etc.
 
Mar 14, 2011
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#59
Here is the perfect target Jesus gave us...

Mark 12:29-31 KJV
[29] And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord: [30] And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy strength: this is the first commandment. [31] And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.
Amen perfect love
in 55 years have yet to meet anyone who has met this standard
 

Jackson123

Senior Member
Feb 6, 2014
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#60
Yes both sin but one Is justified.
I think the fonda entail different is
Save don't want to sin but do
Unsave don't care

Roman 7:19

19 For I do not do the good I want to do, but the evil I do not want to do—this I keep on doing.

Paul want to do good but fail

Unsave may don't have desire to do good.

God will help Oaul to do good because that is what he want
But I don't know if god help or justify people that don't want to do good.