Would God Have us Solve Confusion of baptisms?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
7,268
5,778
113
Thanks, that's Exactly What I found = "WITH" But still have not found of. Be Blessed!
I believe I perceive the splitting of a hair here. Take note that water baptism is also referred to as "with"...

Mark 1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
Enough hair-splitting for today. Let's move on to bigger and better things...

Hebrews 6:1-2 says: "Therefore let us leave the elementary teachings about Christ and go on to maturity, not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith in God, instruction about baptisms, the laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment."
 
B

Blackpowderduelist

Guest
Thanks So Much for your valuable input. So, God Wants me to understand the role baptism "plays in my salvation"? Is it this?:

So, Definitely YES, God "Requires water baptism FOR the forgiveness of my sins" {FOR Justification!}, Today, Under GRACE! Correct?
Baptism is one of the means of grace. Just as you put it, baptism is for forgiveness of sins. Anyone who actually reads the scriptures for what is actually written can come to no other conclusion. The reason for all the "confusion" is because men and their vain imaginations and the sinful carnality trying to rob men of the promise. Water baptism forgives sins and bestows the gift of the Holy Spirit.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
2,418
886
113
The use of "forgiveness" in Acts 2:38 is unfortunate. I don't generally care much for the King James version, but in this case it (and a few others) translates it as "remission," which I believe better reflects the Greek. It means "to release or let go." When we believe and confess Christ we're forgiven, justified. In baptism we're released from our "grave clothes." See the account of the raising of Lazarus in John 11. V. 44 says:

"The man who had died came out, his hands and feet bound with linen strips, and his face wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, 'Unbind him, and let him go.' "

Lazarus had already been given life by Christ; now he needed to be released from his grave clothes. This is a figure of baptism.

Acts 22:16 says: "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name."

Baptism washes away the guilt of sin and cleanses our conscience. See 1 Peter 31:21:

"Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience."

The Greek word translated "saves" is σῴζει (sōzei). It's means "to save, heal, preserve, rescue"; as opposed to the Greek word translated "justify" in other places: δικαιοῦται (dikaioutai)—"to render just of innocent."
 

throughfaith

Well-known member
Aug 4, 2020
10,467
1,593
113
The use of "forgiveness" in Acts 2:38 is unfortunate. I don't generally care much for the King James version, but in this case it (and a few others) translates it as "remission," which I believe better reflects the Greek. It means "to release or let go." When we believe and confess Christ we're forgiven, justified. In baptism we're released from our "grave clothes." See the account of the raising of Lazarus in John 11. V. 44 says:

"The man who had died came out, his hands and feet bound with linen strips, and his face wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, 'Unbind him, and let him go.' "

Lazarus had already been given life by Christ; now he needed to be released from his grave clothes. This is a figure of baptism.

Acts 22:16 says: "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name."

Baptism washes away the guilt of sin and cleanses our conscience. See 1 Peter 31:21:

"Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience."

The Greek word translated "saves" is σῴζει (sōzei). It's means "to save, heal, preserve, rescue"; as opposed to the Greek word translated "justify" in other places: δικαιοῦται (dikaioutai)—"to render just of innocent."
What does Acts 2.38 have to do with being saved today ?
 

GRACE_ambassador

Well-known member
Feb 22, 2021
880
258
63
Midwest
What does Acts 2.38 have to do with being saved today ?
What doesn't it have to do with it?
ResidentAlien, Precious friend, ok, Perchance you MISSED it, so we'll TRY
THIS Summary Again {it MAY water the seed...}:
Baptisms Scriptural Summary!:

Q: Does God Still Require water baptism, Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE?:

Prophecy/Law FOR The "Nation of ISRAEL" The Jew!:
►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄
The TWO Main (of 12) baptismS =
A) water, For remission of sins!:
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke_7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25)

► Thus, Acts_2:38 "Has EVERYTHING to do with ISRAEL, In "The PREVIOUS
Dispensation!" {And, Also will Continue In THEIR Great Tribulation [future]} ◄

+
B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)

Rightly Divided (2_Timothy_2:15 KJB!) From Things That Differ!:

Mystery/GRACE, TODAY, To The Body Of CHRIST!:
►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄

►►► Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,

Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians_4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; 1_Corinthians_12:13 KJB!) ◄◄◄

►► Thus, Acts_2:38 "Has NOTHING to do with The Body of CHRIST,
In "The CURRENT Dispensation Of God's PURE GRACE!" ◄◄


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion: God's ONE Baptism Today? = ONE!
OR, EQUALS TWO? iow, TWO baptismS, TODAY = Bad Math, Correct?

And, thus, as proposed, in the OP:
Is it not Possible That God's Answer Of "No water baptism, for us Today," Under
HIS Pure GRACE, absolutely vanquishes Satan's Confusion into oblivion!?
---------------------------------------------------
PS: To see "the Meaning of water baptism," please review #'s 4, 9, And 10,
{with God's THREE Requirements FOR ISRAEL, a THEIR priesthood, Unto God!},
in the "study" {WITH Many Questions for "water adherents"}, here: 12 Baptisms

PS2: IF still UNconvinced, then please Carefully/Prayerfully review Today's:
ONE Baptism {E-X-P-A-N-D-E-D version}. Thanks again, for your important question!

Precious friend, Again, Be Very Richly Blessed!
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
2,418
886
113
ResidentAlien, Precious friend, ok, Perchance you MISSED it, so we'll TRY
THIS Summary Again {it MAY water the seed...}:
Baptisms Scriptural Summary!:

Q: Does God Still Require water baptism, Today, Under HIS PURE GRACE?:

Prophecy/Law FOR The "Nation of ISRAEL" The Jew!:
►►► The Twelve Were Sent to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄
The TWO Main (of 12) baptismS =
A) water, For remission of sins!:
(Matthew_3:5-6; Mark_1:4; Luke_3:3; John_1:31; Luke_7:29-30; Acts_10:37)
(Matthew_28:19; Mark_16:16; Acts_2:38, 22:16; Ezekiel_36:25)

► Thus, Acts_2:38 "Has EVERYTHING to do with ISRAEL, In "The PREVIOUS
Dispensation!" {And, Also will Continue In THEIR Great Tribulation [future]} ◄

+
B) WITH The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah_44:3; Matthew_3:11; Mark_1:8, 16:17-18;
Luke_24:49; Acts_2:17-18, 38, 8:15-17, 11:16)

Rightly Divided (2_Timothy_2:15 KJB!) From Things That Differ!:

Mystery/GRACE, TODAY, To The Body Of CHRIST!:
►►► Paul Was Not Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄

►►► Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,

Spiritually Identifying members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians_4:5; Colossians_2:12; Galatians_3:27;
Romans_6:3-4; 1_Corinthians_12:13 KJB!) ◄◄◄

►► Thus, Acts_2:38 "Has NOTHING to do with The Body of CHRIST,
In "The CURRENT Dispensation Of God's PURE GRACE!" ◄◄


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion: God's ONE Baptism Today? = ONE!
OR, EQUALS TWO? iow, TWO baptismS, TODAY = Bad Math, Correct?

And, thus, as proposed, in the OP:
Is it not Possible That God's Answer Of "No water baptism, for us Today," Under
HIS Pure GRACE, absolutely vanquishes Satan's Confusion into oblivion!?
---------------------------------------------------
PS: To see "the Meaning of water baptism," please review #'s 4, 9, And 10,
{with God's THREE Requirements FOR ISRAEL, a THEIR priesthood, Unto God!},
in the "study" {WITH Many Questions for "water adherents"}, here: 12 Baptisms

PS2: IF still UNconvinced, then please Carefully/Prayerfully review Today's:
ONE Baptism {E-X-P-A-N-D-E-D version}. Thanks again, for your important question!

Precious friend, Again, Be Very Richly Blessed!
I did miss it, friend. Nothing personal, but your post is too wordy and complicated. I generally skip posts like that. Keep it simple bro (or sis).
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
What doesn't it have to do with it?
As for baptism. It has nothing to do with it. Peter did not tell everyone to be baptized to get remission. He told those who had received remission. to get baptized.

Sadly. the english translation is seriously lacking and misleading
 
Feb 22, 2021
880
258
63
Midwest
May 29, 2013
7,368
1,171
113
As for baptism. It has nothing to do with it. Peter did not tell everyone to be baptized to get remission. He told those who had received remission. to get baptized.

Sadly. the english translation is seriously lacking and misleading
The language used is similar to language used regarding John's baptism. Do you think John the Baptist was telling people to be baptized for sins tgat had already been forgiven?

From what I have seen, I do not think there is any solid evidence from Greek to support your position and native speakers of Greek from within a few centuries of when this was written held to a different position from yours.

What do you do with Paul, in an evangelistic scenario, reporting how Ananias told him to be baptized and wash away his sins, calling upon the name of the Lord?
 
Nov 24, 2012
30,153
3,469
113
From what I have seen, I do not think there is any solid evidence from Greek to support your position and native speakers of Greek from within a few centuries of when this was written held to a different position from yours.
How would you know those points as onr living in the 21st century?

What do you do with Paul, in an evangelistic scenario, reporting how Ananias told him to be baptized and wash away his sins, calling upon the name of the Lord?
Then there is Paul saying...

1 Corinthians 1:14-18 (NASB) I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one would say you were baptized in my name. Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void. For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Doesn't sound like Paul sees baptism as a means of salvation.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
4,763
2,591
113
How would you know those points as onr living in the 21st century?


Then there is Paul saying...

1 Corinthians 1:14-18 (NASB) I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one would say you were baptized in my name. Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void. For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Doesn't sound like Paul sees baptism as a means of salvation.
I agree and that is because Paul knows that baptism is not required for the salvation of the soul. Water baptism is for the salvation of the glorified resurrected body. So water baptism is something nice to have but not entirely necessary.

Romans 6:3-5
3Or aren’t you aware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection.
 

peldom10

Well-known member
May 22, 2020
1,981
304
83
I agree and that is because Paul knows that baptism is not required for the salvation of the soul. Water baptism is for the salvation of the glorified resurrected body. So water baptism is something nice to have but not entirely necessary.

Romans 6:3-5
3Or aren’t you aware that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4We were therefore buried with Him through baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may walk in newness of life.
5For if we have been united with Him like this in His death, we will certainly also be united with Him in His resurrection.

Please...what is it nice for?...if not required? Please show scriptures?
 

peldom10

Well-known member
May 22, 2020
1,981
304
83
Grace And Peace, Precious friends. I believe this would honor HIM Very Much, and bring
us a lot closer to "Approval Unto God" by a Prayerful And Careful "study of HIS Word Of Truth,
Rightly Divided."


So, briefly, to begin, so especially new born babes In CHRIST, will be saved a lot of frustration
caused by this prevailing Confusion, let us have a brief introduction, if you will, to "starting
a class" about baptisms, because I think there a very few who have "such a thing."

I know I did not in the "churches" I went to, one "immersing me to Get Saved," found out that
wasn't True, the next, when I inquired about their teaching, giving me an Unscriptural booklet
to explain their "traditional" belief.

The next one I attended, thinking {as a book writer suggested, "he believed was The
Closest thing
to a New Testament church"}, that God Wanted me there, they re-did my
previous immersion, because "it Did Not save me, being symbolic, a supposed obedient
outward expression of an inward faith? {Do babies know Where that is in their Bible?}
= again, their "tradition" = the way they have always "done it." Thanks for patiently
listening to my experiences in H2O.:)

And, as Many of you probably know, there are other Various "traditions" of cleansing
baptisms, by "baby sprinkling, adult pouring, immersions in ONE name, others in
THREE names of God, And, "do it our way Requirement" to be a member of "our church," etc.
How do we know "which" one is actually correct? The Bible Answer will probably Shock
many.

Q: Did you know there Are Actually Thirteen baptisms in The Bible? Bet most have Never
"had a class"
on them. I was Totally Amazed after 35 years "when I Finally Found out the
Real Meaning of water baptism. Ready, Precious friend(s) {who have Not Yet "studied" this
thoroughly}?:

The Important Question, very few are sincerely and humbly asking: Does God
Require
water baptism, to be practiced Today, Under HIS Pure GRACE Dispensation?

For those who say "Yes," we have already seen above, Mass Confusion of "traditions,"
correct? But:

Have you Ever Thought: What IF "God's Answer" Was: "NO!" What would happen? Would not
ALL THE Confusion IMMEDIATELY Disappear into Oblivion? Class, are you "ready to begin,"
And, Be Very RICHLY Blessed By our Wonderful God, And, HIS Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided?

Here is a brief lesson to get us started to thinking, or challenged, anyway:

BaptismS Scriptural SUMMARY!:

LORD JESUS, please open our hearts to ALL of Thy Truth. Amen:

Prophecy/Law: ►►► The Twelve WERE SENT to {water} baptize! ◄◄◄
The TWO "Main" (of 12) baptismS =
A) water, For remission of sins!:
(Matthew 3:5-6; Mark 1:4; Luke 3:3; John 1:31; Luke 7:29-30; Acts 10:37)
(Matthew 28:19; Mark 16:16; Acts 2:38; Acts 22:16; Ezekiel 36:25 KJB!)
+
B) "WITH" The Holy Spirit, Poured Out By CHRIST, for power, signs And wonders!
(Isaiah 44:3; Matthew 3:11; Mark 1:8, 16:17-18; Luke 24:49;
Acts 2:17-18, 38; Acts 8:15-17; Acts 11:16 KJB!)

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!) From "Things That DIFFER!":

Mystery/GRACE!:
►►► Paul Was NOT Sent to {water} baptize! Why Not?: ◄◄◄

Today: Only ONE Baptism = "BY" The ONE Spirit = God's OPERATION,
Spiritually "Identifying" members In (The ONE Body Of) CHRIST!!
(Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 2:12; Galatians 3:27;
Romans 6:3-4; 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB!)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Conclusion: God's ONE Baptism Today? = ONE? OR, EQUALS TWO?

Those who wish to confuse is your reference.

There should be no confusion after study of God's word;


Baptism is Required



Peter 3: 21.... whereunto even baptism doth also now save us...

John 3:5 .......Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.


Acts 2;38-....Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22;16... And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.


Galations 3:26...... For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

KJV Marrk 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

KJV Matthew 3:14... But John forbad him, saying, I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me? 15. Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now, for thus it becometh us to fulfil all rightesousness. Then He suffered Him.

KJV Matthew 28:19..... Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:.

Acts 8:12-18: But when they believed Philip as he preached the things concerning the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, both men and women were baptized.

Acts 19:4 And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.”

John 3; 22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.
23 And John also was baptizing in Aenon near to Salim, because there was much water there: and they came, and were baptized.

Quote from Billy Graham that is note worthy;
....Also, to clarify I did not say remission of sin takes place at repentance. Scripture makes it clear that it occurs upon obedience to water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus. Each is a step of faith, along with receiving the Holy Ghost, in the process of one's spiritual rebirth

.."Paul explains the doctrinal significance of what occurs when one is baptized.His explanation is found in his letter to those who had already been obedient to the command.

Paul tells the Roman Christians what actually occurred when they were/are baptized; they were baptized into His death. Being buried with Jesus into His death resulted in their sin being destroyed.

Even though Paul explains this concept, the NEW AGE RELIGION TEACHING is......... that water baptism is nothing other than a mere public display.......... And that is so far removed from the truth.

......If you were baptized for some reason other than for forgiveness of sins in order to be ...born again... then you do not have salvation and you are still lost. Who are you going to follow: God or man? As our Lord warns us in Matthew 15:14, "And if the blind lead the blind, both will fall into a ditch." Don't allow someone, who has added to and taken away from God's word, to lead you. Open your eyes and read God's word for yourself. Those who have added to and taken away from God's word will be lost. If you continue to follow them, then you too will be lost.

Keep in mind that Satan knows if he can continue to perpetuate that lie ...... he can keep people from entering the kingdom of God. Thus He has proven scripture which says ...in the end times there will be ...great delusions.....they are here.

Conclusion....teaching that baptism is not necessary is violation of Rev. 22;19.... And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book. 20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus. (Also two other books of the Bible).



































...













 

peldom10

Well-known member
May 22, 2020
1,981
304
83
The use of "forgiveness" in Acts 2:38 is unfortunate. I don't generally care much for the King James version, but in this case it (and a few others) translates it as "remission," which I believe better reflects the Greek. It means "to release or let go." When we believe and confess Christ we're forgiven, justified. In baptism we're released from our "grave clothes." See the account of the raising of Lazarus in John 11. V. 44 says:

"The man who had died came out, his hands and feet bound with linen strips, and his face wrapped with a cloth. Jesus said to them, 'Unbind him, and let him go.' "

Lazarus had already been given life by Christ; now he needed to be released from his grave clothes. This is a figure of baptism.

Acts 22:16 says: "And now why do you wait? Rise and be baptized and wash away your sins, calling on his name."

Baptism washes away the guilt of sin and cleanses our conscience. See 1 Peter 31:21:

"Baptism, which corresponds to this, now saves you, not as a removal of dirt from the body but as an appeal to God for a good conscience."

The Greek word translated "saves" is σῴζει (sōzei). It's means "to save, heal, preserve, rescue"; as opposed to the Greek word translated "justify" in other places: δικαιοῦται (dikaioutai)—"to render just of innocent."

Might as well say it....baptism for the cleansing of sin.
 

Runningman

Well-known member
Mar 4, 2020
4,763
2,591
113
Please...what is it nice for?...if not required? Please show scriptures?
Romans 6:3-5, 1 Peter 3:21, 1 Corinthians 15.

As you can see below, the dead will rise in the resurrection if they were baptized. The point of water baptism is for being in the resurrection.

1 Corinthians 15:29
29If these things are not so, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?
 
May 29, 2013
7,368
1,171
113
How would you know those points as onr living in the 21st century?
That is a weakness of those who claim eis must mean 'for something that already exists' too. Greek speakers who wrote on the topic closer in history would not have agreed.

Then there is Paul saying...

1 Corinthians 1:14-18 (NASB) I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, so that no one would say you were baptized in my name. Now I did baptize also the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized any other. For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not in cleverness of speech, so that the cross of Christ would not be made void. For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.

Doesn't sound like Paul sees baptism as a means of salvation.
Paul does not comment on that in this passage. We just know he baptized a relatively few number of Corinthians (unless Stephanos household was large.) But Acts 18:8 tells us that many of the Corinthians believed and were baptizing.

So someone else was baptizing. Maybe Paul's fellow teammates or converts in Corinth.