Can You Speak in Tongues?

notuptome · Mar 9, 2015

I am making room for you. I do not oppose the gifts of the Holy Spirit only teaching as Gods word declares that three specific gifts are over for the present time.

Having and receiving are two different things. Many have heard the truth but many reject what they have heard.

Paul had a much more comprehensive knowledge of the OT scriptures and knew Joel spoke of a former and a latter rain. Paul certainly would have witnessed Peter stating at Pentecost that what was seen was not a complete fulfillment of Joel but a partial fulfillment.

God has not place Israel into the land. Israel is in part of the land now because men have allowed Israel to be there. When God moves Israel into the land Israel will receive all of the land she is promised.

Israel is for the present blind to the gospel. When Israel has her sight restored and the 144,000 begin to preach we will see the latter rain and that in abundance.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

ember · Mar 9, 2015

Yet those who speak in tongues do so by biblical injunction. I would rather hear...and by that I mean understand with my spirit through the teaching of the Spirit of God...what the Bible actually states

Please do not be offended, but you are not 'hearing' what the Bible says about tongues

GandalfTheWhite · Mar 9, 2015

One of my close friends had a home church we attended and we had this discussion about speaking in tongues. He asked me why it is that I don’t speak in tongues and I said to him maybe it is because I don’t believe that the church today is doing it in a Biblical fashion, and let me explain myself:

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

When reading Acts we can clearly see that the people understood what was said and that it was translatable (could be interpreted). In church today we have people speaking away without any interpretation or explanation as required in the word of God. The Bible is clear about this, do not speak in tongues in the assembly of God unless somebody can translate what you said.

1Co 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
1Co 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
1Co 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

So my question is if you speak in tongues do you prophesy or is the church focused on speaking in tongues? And if they are focused on speaking in tongues, why?

GandalfTheWhite · Mar 9, 2015

kaylagrl said:

No Kayla

but we should stick to the guidelines of the Bible

kaylagrl · Mar 9, 2015

GandalfTheWhite said:

One of my close friends had a home church we attended and we had this discussion about speaking in tongues. He asked me why it is that I don’t speak in tongues and I said to him maybe it is because I don’t believe that the church today is doing it in a Biblical fashion, and let me explain myself:

Act 2:4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
Act 2:5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.
Act 2:6 Now when this was noised abroad, the multitude came together, and were confounded, because that every man heard them speak in his own language.
Act 2:7 And they were all amazed and marvelled, saying one to another, Behold, are not all these which speak Galilaeans?
Act 2:8 And how hear we every man in our own tongue, wherein we were born?

When reading Acts we can clearly see that the people understood what was said and that it was translatable (could be interpreted). In church today we have people speaking away without any interpretation or explanation as required in the word of God. The Bible is clear about this, do not speak in tongues in the assembly of God unless somebody can translate what you said.

1Co 14:1 Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy.
1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
1Co 14:3 But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
1Co 14:5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
1Co 14:6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

So my question is if you speak in tongues do you prophesy or is the church focused on speaking in tongues? And if they are focused on speaking in tongues, why?

I do not believe in tongues without the interpretation given.The churches that focus solely on tongues speaking with no balance tend to be non denominational Pentecostal churches.

kaylagrl · Mar 9, 2015

GandalfTheWhite said:

I am sticking to the guidelines of the Bible,and Im not trying to be sarcastic there.I have had the experience myself and know it to be true.Not a doubt in my mind.

GandalfTheWhite · Mar 9, 2015

kaylagrl said:

And I never argued your experience. How can I? I just explained myself

notuptome · Mar 9, 2015

ember said:

Really? I could say the same thing about your position.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

kaylagrl · Mar 9, 2015

GandalfTheWhite said:

Well the problem is I understand why people are wary of tongues.It is abused by a lot of people who seem to think it makes them closer to God or more special.This is simply arrogance and spiritual snobbery.The Bible gives no indication that only super spiritual people speak in tongues.Here is a link to what I believe...

What is the gift of speaking in tongues?

GandalfTheWhite · Mar 9, 2015

kaylagrl said:

Well the problem is I understand why people are wary of tongues.It is abused by a lot of people who seem to think it makes them closer to God or more special.This is simply arrogance and spiritual snobbery.The Bible gives no indication that only super spiritual people speak in tongues.Here is a link to what I believe...

What is the gift of speaking in tongues?

Thank you, I will have a look...

ember · Mar 9, 2015

notuptome said:

Easy there Roger...I did say 'please don't be offended'...guess there must have been a reason I did so

here is your quote from the top of the previous page:

You are not quoting scripture when you say that tongues have ceased.

If I speak in the tongues[SUP]a[/SUP] of men or of angels, but do not have love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and give over my body to hardship that I may boast,[SUP]b[/SUP] but do not have love, I gain nothing.4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when completeness comes, what is in part disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put the ways of childhood behind me. 12For now we see only a reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

Has wisdom ceased? and knowledge? do we know God as He knows us or do we only know in part?

Logic does not follow at all if one states that tongues has ceased but knowledge has not

Those who are filled with the Holy Spirit have no problem grasping what the Holy Spirit is saying...
those who deny the gifts are still available, in other words they have ceased...as has apparently the need
for the Holy Spirit....try to make a case for their lack of belief with logic

God IS Spirit...those that worship Him, must worship Him in spirit and in truth

We can acknowledge God with our minds, but it is our Spirits God makes alive in Him

We can renew our minds through the word of God...but who is it that searches the hearts and minds?

Is it a Bible...no, it is the Spirit of the Living God

"I the LORD search the heart and examine the mind, to reward each person according to their conduct, according to what their deeds deserve." Jeremiah 17:10

We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7No, we declare God’s wisdom, a mystery that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. 8None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9However, as it is written:“What no eye has seen,
what no ear has heard,
and what no human mind has conceived”[SUP]b[/SUP] —
the things God has prepared for those who love him—

10these are the things God has revealed to us by his Spirit.The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God. 11For who knows a person’s thoughts except their own spirit within them? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. 12What we have received is not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, so that we may understand what God has freely given us. 13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, explaining spiritual realities with Spirit-taught words.[SUP]c[/SUP] 14The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are discerned only through the Spirit. 15The person with the Spirit makes judgments about all things, but such a person is not subject to merely human judgments, 16for,“Who has known the mind of the Lord
so as to instruct him?”

But we have the mind of Christ. I Corinthians 2: 6-16

Please understand that I am not speaking only to you, but as you seem to believe that for some reason God has taken away His Spirit and left us to use only our little minds, I am trying to illustrate the fact that we cannot know God with our minds only

SoulWeaver · Mar 9, 2015

notuptome said:

No man can look on the face of God and live. As long as we remain in this body of flesh we cannot see God face to face. The scripture here is comparing the OT shadows as looking into a glass darkly. When the NT is completed and we have the shadows lifted we will see Gods truth as God intended for us to see it as if we were face to face with it.

We were able to see Christ face to face while He was in His body of flesh because He laid aside His glory which was His in heaven.

If you want to tell me that you speak tongues as in known languages we can find agreement. If you want to tell me you speak in tongues that are not languages you will be alone.

Interesting that Paul was speaking in tongues more than anybody else. Paul knew Hebrew, Greek, and Latin. When Peter spoke at Pentecost he spoke his native language and was heard in the tongues native to the hearers. Does this match with your experiences?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Okay, there's your Biblical answer in bold... right there! Please dont add stuff to it. Thank you for answering my question.

notuptome · Mar 9, 2015

ember said:

Rest easy I am not offended in the least.

Here you are in error as the scriptures you include clearly illustrate.

Verse 8 is the critical verse to your argument.

Knowledge as it relates to this verse has indeed ended. Fishermen no longer know more than the doctors of the law. Knowledge is obtained by study not by divine gift as it was to the early disciples and apostles.

You have only a hodgepodge of doctrine that you are attempting to make into a coherent belief. My question all along is do those who speak in what the modern church calls tongues do so by the Holy Spirit or by another spirit?

Do you speak in a human language or by way of ecstatic utterance? Paul was speaking of angelic tongues in hyperbole not as an actual illustration of an angelic language. There is not one recorded instance in the bible where angels spoke in anything but human languages when they communicated with mankind.

Focus your efforts on not offending God and I will be alright.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Willie-T · Mar 9, 2015

notuptome said:

Rest easy I am not offended in the least.Here you are in error as the scriptures you include clearly illustrate. Verse 8 is the critical verse to your argument. Knowledge as it relates to this verse has indeed ended. Fishermen no longer know more than the doctors of the law. Knowledge is obtained by study not by divine gift as it was to the early disciples and apostles.
You have only a hodgepodge of doctrine that you are attempting to make into a coherent belief. My question all along is do those who speak in what the modern church calls tongues do so by the Holy Spirit or by another spirit?

Do you speak in a human language or by way of ecstatic utterance? Paul was speaking of angelic tongues in hyperbole not as an actual illustration of an angelic language. There is not one recorded instance in the bible where angels spoke in anything but human languages when they communicated with mankind.

Focus your efforts on not offending God and I will be alright.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Why do you lack the intestinal fortitude to come right out and call tongue speakers what you obviously think they are?

ember · Mar 9, 2015

Well, hoping you can continue in your un-offended state of mind, let's take a closer look at your claims here

The world contains more knowledge of itself then you or I or you and I plus everyone else can ever study or carry about in our little brains. The fishermen you speak of, knew more of Christ then you do...they had the good sense to believe what He told them about the Holy Spirit and waited for Him as Christ said they should. It sounds like you are disparaging their occupation prior to their following Christ...are you doing that?

Knowledge is obtained by study. So, how much did that help Saul before he met the One he was persecuting? After Saul had a good old fashionned face-to-face, he understood that all his knowledge and study at the feet of the best teachers Judiasm had to offer, actually caused him to miss the truth.

I think that may be a part of the problem with those who deny the Holy Spirit. You see, the Bible is not God. We can only know God by His Spirit...we can study about Him and learn about Him but until we have the applied truth of the Word in personal conviction through the power of God's Spirit, we know not whereof we speak.

Yes, that is what I said; but you can read it again if it helps.

Why is it that those who deny the Holy Spirit His operation within the body and within the church, get so angry and insulting when they enter in to a discussion? I honestly do not see those who believe getting angry or defensive. I see those who believe explaining over and over and over again the truths of scripture with patience and hope.

Yet, those who deny the Holy Spirit His right entrance into their lives as though He were an interloper rather then God's gift to believers, become downright sarcastic, defensive and some even downright nasty.

You do know it is just a tasteless insult to tell me ... as you have no real clue about me whatsoever...that I have a hodgepodge of doctrine concerning the Bible.

As far as the modern church goes, well, it will, because most of it does not live or exemplify the living truth of the word of God.

I can only say that some people just gotta kick against the goads...like Saul before he became Paul

Well now, see, if you believed that the Holy Spirit did more then just turn pages in your Bible you would know the answer to that one. You might have received the gift of discernment and been able to tell...so let me help you out there. There are probably just as many phoney balonies speaking in tongues as there are those who call themselves Christians and yet have never exhibited any change in lifestyle or evidence of conversion.

Those spirits that are not of God, will just as easily put someone over the edge as they will cause others to disbelieve.

notuptome · Mar 9, 2015

Willie-T said:

I'm looking for an alternative. I seek some explanation for what they do in conflict with the bible. Is it possible to be born again and possess the indwelling Holy Spirit and yet operate with a familiar spirit? Tongues as they appear in the modern church are not in alignment with the scriptures. I am endeavoring to reconcile what I am told with what the scripture says.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Willie-T · Mar 9, 2015

Still can't come out and call them what you are thinking they are, eh?

notuptome · Mar 9, 2015

ember said:

Paul was uniquely qualified to carry the gospel to the Gentiles. Paul knew multiple languages and OT doctrine in exacting detail. Like all sinners Paul was in darkness until Christ called him to salvation. I fail to see how this makes your point.

We know God through His word. The Holy Spirit is our guide into the truth of Gods word. The Holy Spirit only speaks of that which He has heard. The Holy Spirit never speaks of Himself.

I read what you write and it is evident that you are mixing and combining things to support a position that is not scriptural. I'm being kind to you despite your insinuation that I do not have the Holy Spirit.

One does not excuse the other.

We all kick against the goads until we are saved.

Finding fault in others is not justification for another fault. Given your position that there are many false professors in the church how do we know that the ones who claim to speak in tongues are not in the same boat?

Do you believe that the tongues evidenced in the bible are known human languages? Are the tongues spoken today in the modern church are known human languages?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

notuptome · Mar 9, 2015

Willie-T said:

Why be capricious?

Only God can judge a mans salvation. I seek to examine the fruit to see if it is of God. I can only examine the fruit in the light of scripture. There does not seem to be any evidence provided by those who engage in this activity readily presented from the bible.

Set a baseline. Are tongues knowable human languages as evidenced in the bible?

For the cause of Christ
Roger

ember · Mar 9, 2015

You missed the point..or dodged perhaps...not sure which

The point is that he thought he knew all he had to know ... and according to the day, he was absolutely correct but for one thing. The letter of the law does not save...only grace and mercy do...as effected by God through His Son

Study does not produce salvation...only the revelation of truth of the Bible by the Holy Spirit produces salvation in those who believe. Without the Holy Spirit drawing us, none of us would believe. Salvation is of God...if a person is convicted through reading, then they are convicted by the Holy Spirit

The point is that study does not produce relationship. It produces knowledge. A person may have knowledge of marriage but until they actually are married, they don't knwo what they are talking about.

Married people will totally get that.

Paul was not uniquely qualified. We are just as qualified and empowered by the Holy Spirit to spread the gospel. If you mean that we have not had a Damascus road encounter...then that is so. But then neither are we out hunting Christians in order to kill them. At least I hope not.

I have heard that uniquely qualified explanation many times. It's not as unique as you may think.

No one can know God through His word. You can know about Him...but you only KNOW Him through His Spirit.

Is the Holy Spirit allowed to be your guide? he has many qualifications and offices besides that one you know.

The Holy Spirit is our Helper:
"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever; John 14:6

The Holy Spirit bears witness with our Spirit that we are God's children
The Spirit himself testifies with our spirit that we are God’s children. 17Now if we are children, then we are heirs—heirs of God and co-heirs with Christ, if indeed we share in his sufferings in order that we may also share in his glory. Rom 8:16

He is also our Teacher:
"But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all that I said to you. John 14:26

He is our helper:
In the same way the Spirit also helps our weakness; for we do not know how to pray as we should, but the Spirit Himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words; Romans 8:26

He empowers us:
He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.8But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” Acts 1

I understand some do not believe we are still empowered to be followers of Christ and witness to Him, but without the Holy Spirit, I dond't think I would still even be alive. Literally.

Well anyway, the Holy Spirit is written about from Genesis right through to the end of Revelation. How some can manage to leave Him out and simply refer to Him as a guide or perhaps a seal for salvation, is absurd IMO.

How does one leave out the entire third person of the Trinity? The Holy Spirit was sent from God after Jesus ascended. It is so that He does not speak of Himself, however He certainly does speak of God and Jesus for all who will listen

No. Your statement that you are being kind to me is not accurate. I never said you do not have the Holy Spirit. That, would be utterly impossible if you are truly saved. ALL believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit. I am addressing your position on speaking in tongues and most likely your position on the spiritual gifts inclusive.

Frankly, I find you are being somewhat sarcastic...not kind. You appear to think you have a position from which to judge my ability to understand what is really going on. I totally get what is going on here. I understand what is opposing the truth and why you appear to think an evil spirit or a familar spirit has attached it self to me.

Thinking your are saved when you are not, or saying you are a prophet when you are not, or any abuse of the spiritual gifts is far more than a fault. It is sin and so is denying the power of God.

You fail to get past the beginning of the book of Acts. If a pastor or elder ignores the scriptural mandate to not allow a message in tongues without interpretation, who is at fault? If people scream out in tongues, they are out of order.

I know your position as I grew up in a church that had that same position.

The Bible says not to forbid speaking in tongues and yet so many do forbid it. The Bible also says that all things should be done decently and in order.

Tongues are both known and unknown according to scripture.

The baseline you seem to wish to set, is the one that appeals to you.

Your denial does not affect anyone but yourself and those in your camp. It is unfortuneate that you take the stand you do.

Can You Speak in Tongues?

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