Confused @ church

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Desertsrose

Senior Member
Oct 24, 2016
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#81
We had a 2 hour church service today with a visiting "missions" pastor who basically gave a salesman type of service for 2 hours on funding their ministry to train new pastors to go out and serve in India and several other countries. He went on and on about it costing $3,000 to train a pastor and asked for money over 15 times during the service saying that this is what God called us to do. Honestly, we left there feeling very depressed (the whole service was sad - showing films on poor children living in the slums in India, etc) and just such a push for money, money, money. This went on for 2 hours solid. What bugs is me that I felt leaving feeling battered and just bummed out. Is this normal? I like going to church and serving (I volunteer a lot at church, have done some mission work, etc), and I love coming out of church feeling motivated and refreshed for another few days - but today was different. Is it wrong for our pastor to bring someone in to do this, or is it wrong for me to feel so blah about it?
Hi Cindy,

I think it would be good for you to consider speaking with your pastor. I think sometimes we get trapped into believing a certain way because we don't know any different way of doing things. Kinda like, it's a tradition that's been picked up and no one knows why they do it anymore.

Here's a few facts that you might want to share with your pastor. There are missionaries that serve in their own country all throughout the world.

There might still be a need for missionaries in some countries, but what we as Americans need to do is send financial help so the differing countries can minister the gospel to their own people. For instance, Gospel for Asia serves mostly South Asia and they have their own missionaries. They don't really need American missionaries. They need financial help though because they're a very poor country.

If you take one missionary from America to India and they have family, it takes thousands of dollars to support this missionary and family. They have to live in a house that's similar to what we have here. They don't normally live like the natives do. They have to have medical and dental coverage and have a certain diet of food and money for clothes and etc.

In contrast, I support two missionaries in India. Each one costs only $35.00 per month. They speak the native language, they live like the natives because they are one. They know and understand poverty and the hate from Hindu and Muslim and how to deal with it. They know their own people and how they respond and react. They are much more qualified to preach the gospel of the Kingdom of God better than any foreigner. They love their own better than any other country can.

At one time, other countries didn't have their own missionaries because there wasn't any believers and so missionaries from the USA, The United Kingdom, etc were necessary at that point in history. Thank God for Paul who went to the Gentiles!!! :)

So here in this situation, and in todays world, I believe the money is such a waste that this missionary that came to your church was asking for. They need $3000.00 just to train a missionary? I shudder to think of the price it's going to cost to send the trained missionary there and back home again for holidays and all the living expenses that will be required.

The missionaries in India are well trained within their own country at little cost. They don't live in a special house and a high salary. They ride their bicycles from house to house to preach the good news. They know what it means to suffer for the Kingdoms sake for following in the steps of Jesus. They truly suffer and are persecuted by their own people. Americans in general don't like to suffer.

So money is better spent in helping other countries to train their own, to serve their own.

So my thinking is that the institutional church has always done things a certain way and old habits are hard to break when they aren't necessary anymore.

I remember missionaries coming to our church from India. They gave a short presentation without showing starving children. They were excited about what God was doing in their country and shared it with us. The excitement was kind of contagious.

Anyway, sorry if this is too much info, but I was hoping this information might help you in case your pastor has no idea about Gospel for Asia. Also I hope this is information others can use. I didn't know there were groups out there like GFA that desperately needs our help to reach their own. I like to use God's money wisely.

Also, I'm sorry you had a blah Sunday! Hopefully there won't be another one around the corner any time soon. But if the pastor doesn't hear from the congregation, he won't know to not do it again.






 

Dan58

Senior Member
Nov 13, 2013
1,991
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#82
He went on and on about it costing $3,000 to train a pastor and asked for money over 15 times during the service saying that this is what God called us to do.
It doesn't take $3000 o train a pastor, it takes a teacher who's willing to donate his time. A long time ago, an itinerant preacher trained 12 guys, and he didn't charge a dime. "Whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things" (Philippians 3:19)
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#83
Not true. People twist and want to make it true bc it's money.. and that helps them feel "holy"
Paul encouraged with these words did he not.. My God shall supply.. Why? Bc they were giving.. to give and expect is not wrong. People who lack understanding teach others that it is
There's a difference between knowing God is faithful & selfishly "investing" to get a huge return. It's about the heart, & not the letter.
 
Aug 15, 2009
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#84
Your giving is to God..

And yes. It shows you value your education more than God. Idolatry in every sense.

Read thru the Bible. Taking offering and tithe was never suspended due to horrible leaders..
There it is. Folks need to be careful with what they say..... It will come back to bite you.:)

BTW.....tithing wasn't carried over into the New Covenant.
 
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mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
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#85
There it is. Folks need to be careful with what they say..... It will come back to bite you.:)

BTW.....tithing wasn't carried over into the New Covenant.
Many churches teach that we as Christians, under the New Covenant, are commanded to give a minimum of 10% of our income to our church. Others teach that preachers of these churches are turning the 10% tithe in the Old Testament for Israel into a legalistic prescription for Christians under the New Covenant.

In 2 Corinthians 9:5-7 we read: Therefore I thought it necessary to exhort the brethren to go to you ahead of time, and prepare your generous gift beforehand, which you had previously promised, that it may be ready as a matter of generosity and not as a grudging obligation. But this I say: He who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver.

Now I don't see a "specific percentage" given anywhere for Christians to give "under the New Covenant," but I certainly believe in giving and not just to our church. I also believe that everything we own belongs to God.
 
L

LaurenTM

Guest
#86
I think some folks may not have understood the op

no one should be made to feel guilty over giving...it is my understanding we give to the Lord

however, we are also told to be good stewards and the 10% tithe is not even a requirement but if someone feels that's their thing, no problem

it should be between you and the Lord...

I don't think there is any question that we should give

there are some posts in this thread that are basically attacking others...just punches out in all directions...due to the nature of those particular posts, I get the impression some sort of personal attachment is involved

I don't believe it is ANYONE else's business how much, when or where, we give ...
 
Mar 2, 2016
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#87
the only thing I have ever seen as a requirement for the Christian is to have a generous heart....and that isn't necessarily speaking about money.
 

jsr1221

Senior Member
Jul 7, 2013
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#88
Ive done many open air services. My point is,if you are meeting at a church each Sunday it takes money to make it run and keep the doors open.
The fact there are open air services shows it's the people and not the building.
 

jsr1221

Senior Member
Jul 7, 2013
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#89
Im pretty sure we have enough to help here and abroad. There are many organizations that do just that. Salvation Army and many others.
Salvation Army is a scam organization. They keep a lot of the money themselves, rather than donating it. March of Dimes is another. Although I don't know the specifics with Salvation Army and can't provide the link on my phone, I know off the top of my head with March of Dimes they only give a dime for every dollar. If you add that up, most of your money is just going to the executives of the organization.
 
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kaylagrl

Guest
#91
Salvation Army is a scam organization. They keep a lot of the money themselves, rather than donating it. March of Dimes is another. Although I don't know the specifics with Salvation Army and can't provide the link on my phone, I know off the top of my head with March of Dimes they only give a dime for every dollar. If you add that up, most of your money is just going to the executives of the organization.

Sally Ann is a scam?! Thats news to me.I'll have to let my family know,the ones who stand in winter snow every year to ring those bells.Im sure they'd like to know they are part of a scam.
 
K

kaylagrl

Guest
#92
I get a kick when Christians say you're not giving to the pastor. You're giving to God. Yet when a church uses the money for their one selfish desires, these same Christians say it was the pastors that used the money. Not God. Both situations, you give the money directly to the pastor. Yet, two different outcomes arise. One church uses it for Godly means, and the others don't. Do those folks that give their money to the secretly corrupt pastor not have their faith in God as much as the people in the other church? After all, both groups of people did exactly what they were told to do.

Quote "I get a kick when Christians say you're not giving to the pastor. You're giving to God."

You are giving to God when you support the pastor. The Bible says a workman is worthy of his hire.


Quote"Yet when a church uses the money for their one selfish desires, these same Christians say it was the pastors that used the money."

I dont know what a selfish desire would be.Either way last time I checked there are meetings where members vote on how church money is spent.
 
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HisHolly

Guest
#93
There it is. Folks need to be careful with what they say..... It will come back to bite you.:)

BTW.....tithing wasn't carried over into the New Covenant.
I don't understand what you mean.
 
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HisHolly

Guest
#94
There's a difference between knowing God is faithful & selfishly "investing" to get a huge return. It's about the heart, & not the letter.
Obviously.
 
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HisHolly

Guest
#95
At the end of all this and Christ comes... Jaws will drop when they find out they didn't know as much as they could have..
Keep your beliefs and I'll grow in mine..

It's not all a matter of salvation, obviously I'm not uneducated. The life and promises available are not tapped into..

I said before that I answered a question on a public forum.. Nobody has to care what I say if they don't want to. It changes no outlook of mine.
 
Mar 11, 2016
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Singapore
abigail.pro
#96
Salvation Army is a scam organization. They keep a lot of the money themselves, rather than donating it. March of Dimes is another. Although I don't know the specifics with Salvation Army and can't provide the link on my phone, I know off the top of my head with March of Dimes they only give a dime for every dollar. If you add that up, most of your money is just going to the executives of the organization.
Unless otherwise obvious (and/or proven), it is better to not accuse these organizations. They have done and still are doing so much for the kingdom (at least where I come from).

I get that we must rely on the Holy Spirit's discernment in us before we give to ministries/organisations (heck, we must rely on the Holy Spirit for everything), that we test the spirits, being wise as serpents but innocent like doves. So, better be careful when it comes making assumptions about Christian organizations, God may have appointed some of them.
 

jsr1221

Senior Member
Jul 7, 2013
4,265
77
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#97
Unless otherwise obvious (and/or proven), it is better to not accuse these organizations. They have done and still are doing so much for the kingdom (at least where I come from).

I get that we must rely on the Holy Spirit's discernment in us before we give to ministries/organisations (heck, we must rely on the Holy Spirit for everything), that we test the spirits, being wise as serpents but innocent like doves. So, better be careful when it comes making assumptions about Christian organizations, God may have appointed some of them.
I'll post a link showing why later today when I'm at my laptop. I don't know how to copy and paste on a phone. With that statement, though, I don't believeGod appoints anyone to do evil. Sure, He allows it because He allows free will. But that's like telling a rape victim He appointed her attacker, so he could perform said act then and there.
 
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Mar 11, 2016
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abigail.pro
#98
I'll post a link showing why later today when I'm at my laptop. I don't know how to copy and paste on a phone. With that statement, though, I don't believeGod appoints anyone to do evil. Sure, He allows it because He allows free will. But that's like telling a rape victim He appointed her attacker, so he could perform said act then and there.
No, God wouldn't. That's contrary to who He is.
 
Mar 2, 2016
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#99
I'll post a link showing why later today when I'm at my laptop. I don't know how to copy and paste on a phone. With that statement, though, I don't believeGod appoints anyone to do evil. Sure, He allows it because He allows free will. But that's like telling a rape victim He appointed her attacker, so he could perform said act then and there.
Maybe not but knows full well those He appoints will do evil and already has a plan for when they do to use it for His glory.
 

1ofthem

Senior Member
Mar 30, 2016
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I disagree with this statement, as we are supposed to use discernment in all things
I agree because there are many out there scamming and using the name of Lord to do so...not all but there are many. I think I would need to know more about this operation before I gave to it...Like why would it cost $3,000. dollars to train someone. Why are the expenses that high? Where exactly is that money going? Is it going to pay a big cushy salary to the dude who was asking every one to give?

We know God loves a cheerful giver, but I don't think that's all about money. Maybe some of the trainers could volunteer some of their time, if that is where all the money is going to train someone on how to minister to others.