Dangers of Feminism

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biscuit

Guest
Given the statistics I'm looking at, it is DEFINITELY going to take honest dialogue of the type you just engaged in combined with some genuine repentance and real societal ideological shifts toward the Biblical model moving forward if things are to stabilize instead of grow much much worse.

The statistics have predictive power and the prediction is that things are going to get really unwholesome for women moving forward as a result of the choices 71% of young men are about to make.
71% is a HUGE percentage for feminist & non-feminists to be concerned because the feminists' power base is tied to control, manipulating marriage/divorce issues. While women have made modest gains in workforce & etc., they are losing BIG TIME because the overwhelming majority of women are struggling, suffering, surviving paycheck-to-paycheck with children. The poverty line is dramatically increasing for women with children while the government is slowly but surely cutting back social programs, entitlements and benefits that once women took for granted.IMHO, 30% of today's women have benefit from the feminists' agenda, while 70% are suffering or not benetting from it. The situation will only get worse. God is not taking the feminists' attacks on his institution of marriage lightly or sitting down, and the attacks against men in ruling their households. Women, in general, will have to answer God for rebelling against Him, and we clearly see some of the results with the worst to come.
 
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Misty77

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Aug 30, 2013
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Every article I read shows that the institution of marriage in China is undergoing rapid changes just as you said with the divorce rate accelerating every year. An estimated 2.87 million Chinese marriages ended in divorce in 2012 alone, a number on the rise for the seventh year in a row.

Though 2.87 million divorces in 2012 may not seem like a lot to some (I think it is) given China's enormous population, the rate of divorce is exponentially growing and THAT is going to change Chinese society.

Reasons the media gives range from China's procreation policy, new and easier divorce procedures, the growing population of white-collar females with high education and financial independence, a general loosening of traditional conservative views (especially in urban areas), etc...

I think us Christians can offer a few other reasons besides.
Keep in mind that divorce is not a sin and is not the problem; rather, it is the result of sin. Just avoiding divorce court doesn't mean that a family is intact. The sins of pride, lust, and selfishness need to be addressed, as I have never seen any broken family that wasn't destroyed by at least one of these sins. Teaching love, respect, and responsibility will go a long way in keeping families whole.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Jesus said (Mat. 19:5-6) that the creation of man and woman was the basis for lifelong marriage between one man and one woman as husband and wife in accordance with HIS Word (Luke 11:28)

What are the results of tossing out God's Word and disassembling what God has done? The answer of course, is already apparent in the statistics we gather and compile and the lives of the people around us.

I do see your point; however, the latter (e.g. the influence of the Holy Spirit) never contradicts the former (e.g. God's Word). In other words, God doesn't contradict Himself even when misinformed people falsely think and assert that He does.

Christians need to understand that:

"Christianity is not a series of truths in the plural, but rather truth spelled with a capital "T." Truth about total reality, not just about religious things. Biblical Christianity is Truth concerning total reality - and the intellectual holding of that total Truth and then living in the light of that Truth." -FRANCIS SCHAEFFER

The National Marriage Project at Rutgers University found that today's young people view marriage "as a form of economic exposure and risk, largely due to the prevalence of divorce" with a higher ratio of males asserting this than females.

Many other studies, too numerous to list here, reveal real inequalities for males with regards to the present implementation of marriage in Western society.

It's not just sin that causes divorce. Make no mistake, divorce is a deadly fruit of the atomistic view of society grown by the atheist social Darwinists who disseminated their fruit through the public education system (an oligarchical marketplace under their firm control) and the liberal media.

As Nancy Pearcy pointed out, "Clearly, the ontological individualism of Hobbes, Locke, and Rousseau remains at the heart of America's social and political crisis."

And as Cynthia Tweedell noted, "Society changes people and people change society."

But no matter the extent of the damage, chaos, and upheaval; there God's Word sits patiently waiting to be employed asking us all what principles we can draw out of it for crafting a more biblical view of marriage and family.


I think the problem may lie with using phrases like "Biblical model." While the intent is accurate, it conveys that there is an instruction manual that we are to be striving toward. On a certain level, that's true; but without the empowerment of the Holy Spirit, we are incapable of doing anything good or right. Instead of humankind working to attain the unattainable, we should all be yielding our will to His and allow Him to make us in His image—which, of course, will be truly His model, without any misinterpretations or misapplications on our part.

The former method is our effort, the latter is the Lord's. Can you see the nuances in play here?
Keep in mind that divorce is not a sin and is not the problem; rather, it is the result of sin. Just avoiding divorce court doesn't mean that a family is intact. The sins of pride, lust, and selfishness need to be addressed, as I have never seen any broken family that wasn't destroyed by at least one of these sins. Teaching love, respect, and responsibility will go a long way in keeping families whole.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Despite the rapid economic gains women have made in the U.S. (more women in the workplace than men, more women in college than men, etc...), this IS true for the "Fishtown" women who presently comprise about 80% of the female population in the U.S. (though not the 20% of "Belmont" women in the U.S. [see Charles Murray]).

Without a doubt, I agree with you that the "Fishtown" women who choose to procreate are going to take it on the chin in a big way IF the young men of this generation put into practice what they are stating.

Note the ratio of "Fishtown" women is higher in Latin America, the Third World, etc...


71% is a HUGE percentage for feminist & non-feminists to be concerned because the feminists' power base is tied to control, manipulating marriage/divorce issues. While women have made modest gains in workforce & etc., they are losing BIG TIME because the overwhelming majority of women are struggling, suffering, surviving paycheck-to-paycheck with children. The poverty line is dramatically increasing for women with children while the government is slowly but surely cutting back social programs, entitlements and benefits that once women took for granted.IMHO, 30% of today's women have benefit from the feminists' agenda, while 70% are suffering or not benetting from it. The situation will only get worse. God is not taking the feminists' attacks on his institution of marriage lightly or sitting down, and the attacks against men in ruling their households. Women, in general, will have to answer God for rebelling against Him, and we clearly see some of the results with the worst to come.
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
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Many other studies, too numerous to list here, reveal real inequalities for males with regards to the present implementation of marriage in Western society.
Agreed.

Within the church, however, there are two different responses to sinful trends that are usually taken. The first, and most obvious, is to follow the culture. Generally, the church is following at a distance great enough to assuage the collective conscience and to convince the parishioners that they are truly "in, but not of" the world. They can keep pointing to how bad the world is compared to them and never realize how far they have strayed from God's truth.

My experience has been with the other swing of the pendulum. In trying to be so very different from the sin of the world, the church can over-correct and create an equally damaging situation. But since the focus is on the "sinners over there," insufficient attention is paid to their own standing. They never question the sin that they are in because they use the sin of the world as their standard.

Instead of comparing ourselves to what is wrong, our focus should be on what is right. We don't have to prioritize differentiating ourselves from the world because that will be a natural by-product of the process of becoming holy. And remember that people will recognize us as Christ-followers first by our love, not our rules.

This applies to your point in that there is definitely an anti-male trend in western society, after millennia of being pro-male (among other prejudices). But in striving to be so very different from them, many groups are over-correcting into being distinctively anti-female. We shouldn't ignore one problem in trying to solve the other, nor should we create more victims in trying to rescue others.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
I agree Misty77. How and what we do is as material as why.

And to add fuel to the fire, when I look at the economic data, I see the point you are making with respect to over-correction is going to surface in a decade or two for many of the government economic benefits that single mothers and their children rely on are being jeopardized by a skyrocketing national debt, which though fueled by several primary drivers, presently include more than a trillion a year in federal welfare programs which the non-partisan Congressional Research Service asserts will cost more than 90% than they do now within a decade excluding additional costs generated by millions of illegal aliens suddenly finding they qualify for these welfare programs should amnesty or other legislation make them eligible.

So, in 2023, federal welfare programs will cost about $2.1 trillion a year. If illegal aliens are added, that would drive the amount up by several hundred billion annually. Understand, this is in addition to state and local welfare programs and does not include entitlement programs like Social Security, Medicare, and most Veteran's programs.

With the national deficit running about $513 billion for 2014 (down from about $1.4 trillion in 2013) and expected to sharply increase after 2015; the national debt and unfunded liabilities are going to be very high by 2023. Many state and localities are debt as well mirroring the federal trend.

I'm a straight A MBA and won't go into all the theory and the sweeping changes that are occurring here and the related trade and failing stimulus issues involved as it would fill several white papers but I predict 2023 will be the beginning of the end with respect to the generous welfare currently provided by government if the trends continue (and there is every reason to believe they will).

These economic trends are going to severely compound the social trends for single "Fishtown" mothers and their children. The standard tactics of raising taxes, borrowing, quantitative easing, etc... are not going to bring the expected result once we reach that point primarily due to heavy indebtedness on the dollar in a nation with broken paradigms (e.g. trade, immigration, private sector domestic labor market, shrinking small business sector, etc...)

Honestly, I find it all very disturbing but also still completely preventable. I run an economic blog and have developed a comprehensive reform model to turn it around but understand there is presently zero interest. There is nothing in our current political or social framework even suggesting that current trends are going to change. The trends bringing us to that hard place are, in fact, accelerating.

I hate to say it (I REALLY DO) but biscuit is correct in his assertion this is going to severely impact future "Fishtown" single mothers who are now in elementary school by the time they are in their twenties.

Since the nation, as a whole, has determined to drive into a brick wall at a high rate of speed; the challenge will be to rebuild afterwards in a manner that doesn't result in a social over-correction negating those changes brought about for women which are desirable (not to be confused with the many undesirable changes which feminism has brought about).


Agreed.

Within the church, however, there are two different responses to sinful trends that are usually taken. The first, and most obvious, is to follow the culture. Generally, the church is following at a distance great enough to assuage the collective conscience and to convince the parishioners that they are truly "in, but not of" the world. They can keep pointing to how bad the world is compared to them and never realize how far they have strayed from God's truth.

My experience has been with the other swing of the pendulum. In trying to be so very different from the sin of the world, the church can over-correct and create an equally damaging situation. But since the focus is on the "sinners over there," insufficient attention is paid to their own standing. They never question the sin that they are in because they use the sin of the world as their standard.

Instead of comparing ourselves to what is wrong, our focus should be on what is right. We don't have to prioritize differentiating ourselves from the world because that will be a natural by-product of the process of becoming holy. And remember that people will recognize us as Christ-followers first by our love, not our rules.

This applies to your point in that there is definitely an anti-male trend in western society, after millennia of being pro-male (among other prejudices). But in striving to be so very different from them, many groups are over-correcting into being distinctively anti-female. We shouldn't ignore one problem in trying to solve the other, nor should we create more victims in trying to rescue others.
 

TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
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Teaching love, respect, and responsibility will go a long way in keeping families whole.
At the risk of potentially giving those who are suspect of men more ammunition to throw at them, I'd still like to say the following. What is the place of a man in modern society? Women are geared toward grouping together in social communities. This gives women a natural female bond. Men are geared toward challenging other male opponents to see who is stronger. This doesn't push men apart, but in a modern society where the exercise of strength is unnecessary and often looked down upon, it certainly does nothing to bring men together since men are left not knowing where their maleness places them in the world of men or in the rest of society. They have no chance to mutually admire each others' strength and respect what makes them masculine in an adequate way, and therefore the bond between them is much more loosely connected than feminine bonds. This is only exacerbated by the desire of women to be a man's authoritative equal. The problem here is, admittedly, that woman have more innate value than men in modern society. It takes one man to impregnate several women to continue the human race. The rest of the men can be discarded, especially if there are fewer women than men. And in the end who has ultimate power over the children? Women! Because that's where they go in a divorce. Are you feeling all fuzzy inside yet? I know I am. :eek:

So men find themselves fighting each other over a woman who will have more value and authority over the household than them in the end. What reward does this present to men? Not a lot. The further elevation of women in effect devalues men in modern society. They are becoming worthless. And when they enter into a marriage they are not only worthless but also burdened with responsibility and nothing to show for it. Ever read one of those articles that talks about how men aren't needed any more because of genetic advancements? Maybe you don't notice them. But men do. A few years back in Michigan there was something called the "man-cession," because companies were looking for pretty and unimposing faces for service jobs. It was easier for women to find a job than a man. So at that time the condition of being a man was that he should 1. have no right to masculine authority in a relationship, 2. have no job and his woman provide for him, 3. have no way to relate to other men on a satisfying level, 4. be constantly reminded of how evil and abusive to women men have been in the past, 5. be told you're supposed to let women hit you but you can't hit back, 6. hold a door open for a woman but a woman doesn't have to hold a door open for you, 7. be viewed as too aggressive and be called a creep by the women you do admire and show your affection to. After all this is it any wonder that men don't want to marry a woman who will have more innate value than them and even more authority (especially over who keeps children in a divorce)? This is why the pursuits of those who believe in gender equality are misguided in modern society.

If men have physically abused women in the past, women are returning that favor in the present but in a psychological way. Should men just "man up?" Sure, why not? But we don't need to be legally and morally obligated to a nagging woman who reminds us of this. I think most of us would just rather not marry and do whatever the heck we want on our own time. I guess it's our way of at least having a little authority over our own lives. And I'm sure a lot of feminists (who are secular for the most part) don't really care about marriage. So guess where society's heading? Divorce! yay!! ;) It's the new hip wave of the future. I have a passage for you men reading this: Matthew 19:10-12.
 
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TheAristocat

Senior Member
Oct 4, 2011
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Personally, I think we should just trust God and obey him. Women, respect your husbands and submit to their authority. Men, respect your wives, bend your ear to them out of fear of God and put them and the rest of your family first. In everything love them. But in situations where love of man becomes inadequate, love and fear God as the final authority and the great equalizer. In such situations, though man tries to break you down, you will have a greater Advocate who will build you up.
 
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prodigaldaughter

Guest
You it is easy to say women can be abused by men but there are instances in which men are abused by women but because of society they are too ashamed to come forward for all we know there are male members right among us in which this applies.

I have seen a public fight in which a woman was beating a man up and the man kept his cool and was just walking away but she kept at it and he kept his cool. She was abusing him. There are men who suffer silently with this.
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
1,746
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At the risk of potentially giving those who are suspect of men more ammunition to throw at them, I'd still like to say the following. What is the place of a man in modern society? Women are geared toward grouping together in social communities. This gives women a natural female bond. Men are geared toward challenging other male opponents to see who is stronger. This doesn't push men apart, but in a modern society where the exercise of strength is unnecessary and often looked down upon, it certainly does nothing to bring men together since men are left not knowing where their maleness places them in the world of men or in the rest of society. They have no chance to mutually admire each others' strength and respect what makes them masculine in an adequate way, and therefore the bond between them is much more loosely connected than feminine bonds. This is only exacerbated by the desire of women to be a man's authoritative equal. The problem here is, admittedly, that woman have more innate value than men in modern society. It takes one man to impregnate several women to continue the human race. The rest of the men can be discarded, especially if there are fewer women than men. And in the end who has ultimate power over the children? Women! Because that's where they go in a divorce. Are you feeling all fuzzy inside yet? I know I am. :eek:

So men find themselves fighting each other over a woman who will have more value and authority over the household than them in the end. What reward does this present to men? Not a lot. The further elevation of women in effect devalues men in modern society. They are becoming worthless. And when they enter into a marriage they are not only worthless but also burdened with responsibility and nothing to show for it. Ever read one of those articles that talks about how men aren't needed any more because of genetic advancements? Maybe you don't notice them. But men do. A few years back in Michigan there was something called the "man-cession," because companies were looking for pretty and unimposing faces for service jobs. It was easier for women to find a job than a man. So at that time the condition of being a man was that he should 1. have no right to masculine authority in a relationship, 2. have no job and his woman provide for him, 3. have no way to relate to other men on a satisfying level, 4. be constantly reminded of how evil and abusive to women men have been in the past, 5. be told you're supposed to let women hit you but you can't hit back, 6. hold a door open for a woman but a woman doesn't have to hold a door open for you, 7. be viewed as too aggressive and be called a creep by the women you do admire and show your affection to. After all this is it any wonder that men don't want to marry a woman who will have more innate value than them and even more authority (especially over who keeps children in a divorce)? This is why the pursuits of those who believe in gender equality are misguided in modern society.

If men have physically abused women in the past, women are returning that favor in the present but in a psychological way. Should men just "man up?" Sure, why not? But we don't need to be legally and morally obligated to a nagging woman who reminds us of this. I think most of us would just rather not marry and do whatever the heck we want on our own time. I guess it's our way of at least having a little authority over our own lives. And I'm sure a lot of feminists (who are secular for the most part) don't really care about marriage. So guess where society's heading? Divorce! yay!! ;) It's the new hip wave of the future. I have a passage for you men reading this: Matthew 19:10-12.
I fail to see how your essay related to my statement of love, respect, and responsibility. If everybody treated each other well, especially within marriage, we wouldn't have the problems that lead to divorce, new wave feminism, or misogyny.

While I acknowledge that there are pockets of "male oppression," my response is: Welcome to our world. Even in your "male oppression," there are a lot of odds still in your favor. Even though we are 50.1% of the American population, only 20% of the Senate and 18% of the House of Representatives are female. We've NEVER had a female president. Forbes was pleased to announce that there are more female CEOs than ever before—18 (3.6%). In our relationships, women are the most likely victims in domestic homicides (63.7%) and sex-related homicides (81.7%).

In lower levels of the business world, I have heard of companies who favor women over men. I, personally, haven't been in that situation, although it MAY have happened at Starbucks. Mostly, I've worked in companies with very prominent "good ole boys clubs." While I acknowledge that there are situations where men are discriminated against, it is certainly not across the board. You don't have it tougher than women, and we don't have it tougher than you. Pull up your big-boy britches and deal with it.
 
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Donkeyfish07

Guest
What is the place of a man in modern society? Women are geared toward grouping together in social communities. This gives women a natural female bond. Men are geared toward challenging other male opponents to see who is stronger. This doesn't push men apart, but in a modern society where the exercise of strength is unnecessary and often looked down upon, it certainly does nothing to bring men together since men are left not knowing where their maleness places them in the world of men or in the rest of society. They have no chance to mutually admire each others' strength and respect what makes them masculine in an adequate way, and therefore the bond between them is much more loosely connected than feminine bonds.
Really? That's definitely not how I look at it. Male friendships tend to be deeper and more loyal than female ones in my experience. That's part of the reason we were called "Chauvinist Pigs" so much in the early days, because we stick together so much. How many times have you covered for a guy just because he's a guy? I've done it more times than I can count. Ladies tend to compete more amongst their friends than we do, at least that's how I see it. We've got completely opposing viewpoints on that.

As far as being obligated to a "nagging woman"......if you have a nagger on your hands, no one is forcing you to put up with it at gunpoint. I really don't see how that's relevant to the whole issue, all you gotta do is is leave. You don't even have to say anything
 
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biscuit

Guest
You it is easy to say women can be abused by men but there are instances in which men are abused by women but because of society they are too ashamed to come forward for all we know there are male members right among us in which this applies.

I have seen a public fight in which a woman was beating a man up and the man kept his cool and was just walking away but she kept at it and he kept his cool. She was abusing him. There are men who suffer silently with this.
It is more common than we realize. God works in mysterious ways. We can look at the stats and see how men are adapting to government's empowerment of women over men, but these women who are exercising this power base are paying an extremely heavy price for siding with Satan somewhere down the line and rejecting God's commandments that govern marriage. God is still in control.
 
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biscuit

Guest
Really? That's definitely not how I look at it. Male friendships tend to be deeper and more loyal than female ones in my experience. That's part of the reason we were called "Chauvinist Pigs" so much in the early days, because we stick together so much. How many times have you covered for a guy just because he's a guy? I've done it more times than I can count. Ladies tend to compete more amongst their friends than we do, at least that's how I see it. We've got completely opposing viewpoints on that.

As far as being obligated to a "nagging woman"......if you have a nagger on your hands, no one is forcing you to put up with it at gunpoint. I really don't see how that's relevant to the whole issue, all you gotta do is is leave. You don't even have to say anything
Both of you are making very good points.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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71% is a HUGE percentage for feminist & non-feminists to be concerned because the feminists' power base is tied to control, manipulating marriage/divorce issues. While women have made modest gains in workforce & etc., they are losing BIG TIME because the overwhelming majority of women are struggling, suffering, surviving paycheck-to-paycheck with children. The poverty line is dramatically increasing for women with children while the government is slowly but surely cutting back social programs, entitlements and benefits that once women took for granted.IMHO, 30% of today's women have benefit from the feminists' agenda, while 70% are suffering or not benetting from it. The situation will only get worse. God is not taking the feminists' attacks on his institution of marriage lightly or sitting down, and the attacks against men in ruling their households. Women, in general, will have to answer God for rebelling against Him, and we clearly see some of the results with the worst to come.
I don't think it is wise to tell men not to marry. It may be wise to advise men only to marry women with certain beliefs and values. If the men would only marry women who are committed to marriage based on their faith and not only as long as their feelings dictate, women who were determined to submit to their husbands, be diligent about the home, women who lived sexually moral lifestyles, and leave the one's who think otherwise to remain unmarried, that might be able to help nudge society in the right direction.

Another problem is the type of woman who is committed to those things is often looking for a godly man, a man who is willing to work hard to support his family, who sees it as his responsibility to support his wife, and a man who is sexually moral himself. We also need more godly men in our society.

If those who don't marry still hook up and shack up and have babies, then the social problems may not 'breed out' of society.
 

presidente

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May 29, 2013
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Keep in mind that divorce is not a sin and is not the problem
It certainly can be, at least on the part of one of the partners. In I Corinthians 7, Paul relates a command to tell wives not to depart from their husbands and husbands not to put away their wives. Jeremiah compares what Israel did to the Lord to the wife who treacherously departs from her husband and Malachi speaks of husbands treacherously putting away their wives. So yes, it can be a sin, and if there is remarriage involved, the situation can also be adultery.
 

presidente

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May 29, 2013
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Though 2.87 million divorces in 2012 may not seem like a lot to some (I think it is) given China's enormous population, the rate of divorce is exponentially growing and THAT is going to change Chinese society.
China might handle it differently though. They can produce unified state propaganda, shame people into not divorcing, and could put some legal restrictions on divorce. But the government decision makers may enjoy the new-found freedom in society. It's hard to control people with money. I suppose they could take the money away. They did that once, but I doubt the old folks in society want to live through those social changes again, and their government is still in power, so why rock the boat? They could outlaw divorce or limit it seriously, or invite Christians who take marriage morality seriously to teach their people. A problem is though the nations that the people in some countries think of as 'Christian' overseas have horrifically high divorce rates, which could be a hindrance to the gospel.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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While I acknowledge that there are pockets of "male oppression," my response is: Welcome to our world. Even in your "male oppression," there are a lot of odds still in your favor. Even though we are 50.1% of the American population, only 20% of the Senate and 18% of the House of Representatives are female. We've NEVER had a female president. Forbes was pleased to announce that there are more female CEOs than ever before—18 (3.6%).
So far, none of this is evidence of female oppression. Not that that was what you were getting at, but these are the types of statistics some feminists will throw out as evidence of an evil patriarchy. What percent of men are in the house of representative or president of the United States? A very small percentage indeed. Women have the right to vote. If they wanted to elect more females to these government positions, they could. But many women just may have something inside of them that responds better to male leadership in government, just as many men do. It is not a bad thing if a government is all male. Women ruling over the people is presented as something lamentable in Lamentations.

Business people tend to be 'free enterprise' in our thinking. Like our fellow poster here, I have an MBA. (No straight A, but a decent GPA from a decent school. :) In the MBA program, maybe 30% were women. The one's I studied with were all smart women, good presenters, with good ideas. My guess is in past decades the percentage of women were smaller. Business is one of those fields that men gravitate toward. Of course, from listed companies, it is advantageous to be a lawyer and a business man. There also needs to be a certain type of drive, maybe even aggressiveness, that is typically more common with men. Some women have been exceptional leaders and have risen to the top. But I don't think it's systematic oppression that makes this the case, especially with some companies going out of their way to hire and promote women. Still, natural tendencies tend to outweigh politically correct policies in the business field.

In our relationships, women are the most likely victims in domestic homicides (63.7%) and sex-related homicides (81.7%).
Those are terrible things. Of course, I think we'd agree, the better scenario would be to reduce or eliminate those numbers, rather than adding male deaths to even the percentages out.


In lower levels of the business world, I have heard of companies who favor women over men. I, personally, haven't been in that situation, although it MAY have happened at Starbucks. Mostly, I've worked in companies with very prominent "good ole boys clubs."
Such things probably exist. It may be that men are better at navigating the politics at a certain level.

While I acknowledge that there are situations where men are discriminated against, it is certainly not across the board. You don't have it tougher than women, and we don't have it tougher than you. Pull up your big-boy britches and deal with it.
If all feminists thought that way, we could do away with a lot of 'equality of outcome' type legislation and political rhetoric. Btw, folks are talking about society here. Are you trying to paint someone here as whining about not getting a job? That last line seemed needlessly antagonistic.
 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
MIT produced a report called 'Wayward Sons' in which they showed that although a significant minority of males continues to reach the highest echelons of achievement, the median male is moving in the opposite direction. I'll be quoting from that report and injecting my own comments in an informal manner.

Over the last three decades, the labor market trajectory of males in the U.S. has turned downward along four dimensions: skills acquisition; employment rates; occupational stature; and real wage levels. This would be in addition to all the social trends against males in the U.S. previously discussed.

These gaps in educational attainment and labor market advancement will pose two significant challenges for social and economic policy. First, because education has become an increasingly important determinant of lifetime income over the last three decades and because earnings and employment prospects for less-educated U.S. workers have sharply deteriorated; the stagnation of male educational attainment bodes ill for the well-being of recent cohorts of U.S. males, particularly minorities and those from low-income households.

Recent cohorts of males are likely to face diminished employment and earnings opportunities and other attendant maladies, including poorer health, higher probability of incarceration, and generally lower life satisfaction.

Of equal concern are the implications that diminished male labor market opportunities hold for the well-being of others: children and potential mates in particular. As biscuit noted, due to their low marriage rates and low earnings capacity the children of less-educated males face comparatively low odds of living in economically secure households with two parents present and children born into such households face poorer educational and earnings prospects over the long term. For males, this results in many direct societal costs such as an increase in crime and incarceration and indirectly to women as they cease contributing to female run households.

It is a fact there has been a steep decline in the marriage rates of non-college U.S. adults, a steep rise in the fraction of U.S. children born out of wedlock, and a commensurate growth in the fraction of children reared in households characterized by absent fathers.

Across all western industrialized countries, poverty rates are much higher in single-parent than two-parent households and the incidence of poverty is greater among single-parent families in the U.S. than in other western countries reflecting the fact that the U.S. has low levels of pay for non-college workers and a comparatively incomplete social safety net which even in its current state, as previously shown, is reaching a point of severe curtailment in a decade or two due to economic unsustainability even with expected higher taxes.

The increased prevalence of single-headed households and the diminished child-rearing role played by stable male parents may serve to reinforce the emerging gender gaps in education and labor force participation by negatively affecting male children in particular. Specifically, male children raised in single-parent households tend to fare particularly poorly with effects apparent in almost all academic and economic outcomes. The results of this for society, women, and the men themselves are all bad.

Boys raised in these households are less likely to have a positive or stable same-sex role model present. Moreover, male and female children reared in female-headed households may form divergent expectations about their own roles in adulthood with girls anticipating assuming primary childrearing and primary income earning responsibilities in adulthood and boys anticipating assuming a secondary role in both domains.

I live in California. Both of my state's senators are feminists and so is my governor even though he's a male... lol. The state legislature and the courts are heavily biased in support of the policies of liberal feminism which they have systematically implemented over four decades with devastating results to the overall economic well-being of Californians in the private sector and the social fabric of the state. What's occurred nationally has occurred to a greater measure here.

Though called the "Golden State" before liberalism became the primary political ideology, California is now heavily in debt both on the state and local level with some cities filing bankruptcy, portions of the state are overrun by illegal aliens, unemployment/underemployment is high, from 1982 to 2000 my state's prison population increased 500% peaking in 2009 and then declining a little as prisoners were granted early release putting the community more at risk, one-third of America’s welfare recipients are Californians though we make up only one-eighth of the population, immorality runs rampant, etc...

How is increasing the number of women in Congress, the Senate, as CEOs, and in the White House going to turn this around when statistically such women conform their political behavior to liberal feminism which is a primary driver of all of this? If that were to occur, in my opinion, they would simply make what they are doing in California a blueprint for the nation.

Furthermore, this "male oppression" is going to get a LOT worse economically and socially in the years ahead and what feminists never seem to acknowledge is that, as biscuit pointed out, there is a symbiotic relationship to the well-being of females with regards to the well-being of males and the present trend is to flush all of the positive aspects of this relationship right down the drain.

As for domestic abuse and sex crime statistics, women are far less likely to be arrested and prosecuted for sexual abuse due to a systemic pro-female bias and anti-male bias that is deeply embedded in our culture.

It's so glaring that even a few brave atheist, feminist, transgenders are willing to document this lol.


Even in your "male oppression," there are a lot of odds still in your favor. Even though we are 50.1% of the American population, only 20% of the Senate and 18% of the House of Representatives are female. We've NEVER had a female president. Forbes was pleased to announce that there are more female CEOs than ever before—18 (3.6%). In our relationships, women are the most likely victims in domestic homicides (63.7%) and sex-related homicides (81.7%).
 

Misty77

Senior Member
Aug 30, 2013
1,746
45
0
MIT produced a report called 'Wayward Sons' in which they showed that although a significant minority of males continues to reach the highest echelons of achievement, the median male is moving in the opposite direction. I'll be quoting from that report and injecting my own comments in an informal manner.

Over the last three decades, the labor market trajectory of males in the U.S. has turned downward along four dimensions: skills acquisition; employment rates; occupational stature; and real wage levels. This would be in addition to all the social trends against males in the U.S. previously discussed.

These gaps in educational attainment and labor market advancement will pose two significant challenges for social and economic policy. First, because education has become an increasingly important determinant of lifetime income over the last three decades and because earnings and employment prospects for less-educated U.S. workers have sharply deteriorated; the stagnation of male educational attainment bodes ill for the well-being of recent cohorts of U.S. males, particularly minorities and those from low-income households.

Recent cohorts of males are likely to face diminished employment and earnings opportunities and other attendant maladies, including poorer health, higher probability of incarceration, and generally lower life satisfaction.

Of equal concern are the implications that diminished male labor market opportunities hold for the well-being of others: children and potential mates in particular. As biscuit noted, due to their low marriage rates and low earnings capacity the children of less-educated males face comparatively low odds of living in economically secure households with two parents present and children born into such households face poorer educational and earnings prospects over the long term. For males, this results in many direct societal costs such as an increase in crime and incarceration and indirectly to women as they cease contributing to female run households.

It is a fact there has been a steep decline in the marriage rates of non-college U.S. adults, a steep rise in the fraction of U.S. children born out of wedlock, and a commensurate growth in the fraction of children reared in households characterized by absent fathers.

Across all western industrialized countries, poverty rates are much higher in single-parent than two-parent households and the incidence of poverty is greater among single-parent families in the U.S. than in other western countries reflecting the fact that the U.S. has low levels of pay for non-college workers and a comparatively incomplete social safety net which even in its current state, as previously shown, is reaching a point of severe curtailment in a decade or two due to economic unsustainability even with expected higher taxes.

The increased prevalence of single-headed households and the diminished child-rearing role played by stable male parents may serve to reinforce the emerging gender gaps in education and labor force participation by negatively affecting male children in particular. Specifically, male children raised in single-parent households tend to fare particularly poorly with effects apparent in almost all academic and economic outcomes. The results of this for society, women, and the men themselves are all bad.

Boys raised in these households are less likely to have a positive or stable same-sex role model present. Moreover, male and female children reared in female-headed households may form divergent expectations about their own roles in adulthood with girls anticipating assuming primary childrearing and primary income earning responsibilities in adulthood and boys anticipating assuming a secondary role in both domains.

I live in California. Both of my state's senators are feminists and so is my governor even though he's a male... lol. The state legislature and the courts are heavily biased in support of the policies of liberal feminism which they have systematically implemented over four decades with devastating results to the overall economic well-being of Californians in the private sector and the social fabric of the state. What's occurred nationally has occurred to a greater measure here.

Though called the "Golden State" before liberalism became the primary political ideology, California is now heavily in debt both on the state and local level with some cities filing bankruptcy, portions of the state are overrun by illegal aliens, unemployment/underemployment is high, from 1982 to 2000 my state's prison population increased 500% peaking in 2009 and then declining a little as prisoners were granted early release putting the community more at risk, one-third of America’s welfare recipients are Californians though we make up only one-eighth of the population, immorality runs rampant, etc...

How is increasing the number of women in Congress, the Senate, as CEOs, and in the White House going to turn this around when statistically such women conform their political behavior to liberal feminism which is a primary driver of all of this? If that were to occur, in my opinion, they would simply make what they are doing in California a blueprint for the nation.

Furthermore, this "male oppression" is going to get a LOT worse economically and socially in the years ahead and what feminists never seem to acknowledge is that, as biscuit pointed out, there is a symbiotic relationship to the well-being of females with regards to the well-being of males and the present trend is to flush all of the positive aspects of this relationship right down the drain.

As for domestic abuse and sex crime statistics, women are far less likely to be arrested and prosecuted for sexual abuse due to a systemic pro-female bias and anti-male bias that is deeply embedded in our culture.

It's so glaring that even a few brave atheist, feminist, transgenders are willing to document this lol.
Correlation does not imply causation.

Did y'all catch that? Here, I'll use little words this time: two things can happen at the same time, but that does not mean that one caused the other. Men don't have to be abased for women to succeed. Women don't have to be subjugated for men to thrive. Don't blame women if you are unmarried, unemployed, and mooching off your parents in your 30s (or older). That's YOUR fault.

Screen Shot 2014-03-03 at 3.08.33 PM.png
My financial situation is the fault of ONE man, not men as a gender. I am working hard to change that and not waiting on anyone else to rescue me. Stop blaming unwed mothers because they would just be single women if a man would not have handled his sperm irresponsibly. Both genders are to blame.

Unmarried women outnumber men 2 to 1 in American Christendom. If you can't polish yourself up enough to get just one of them interested, then dude, that is your problem. But it's harder to admit that maybe you need to work on a few things to make yourself datable, so it's easier to slander you sisters in Christ, build up this straw woman of feminism (it exists, but not everywhere you think it is), and whine about American women being evil and out to castrate the world. "Gird up now thy loins like a man" (Job 38:3, 40:7).

 
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AgeofKnowledge

Guest
Instead of turning overly hostile and defensive and retreating into feminist ideology and denial why not INSTEAD address the data in an objective empirical way.

Start with this MIT report I used in my last post: http://economics.mit.edu/files/8754

And I'll tell you something else, even though "Belmont" women are going to escape many of the severe negative consequences their "Fishtown" counterparts suffer with respect to what liberal feminism is about to finally bring about in this next generation; all these newly minted male Libertarian pro-men's rights advocates in the upper middle class are going to have a measurable effect on them too before this is over.

Personally, I don't have a big dog in this fight. I'm happily unmarried and never have been married, adjusted to Christian celibacy, don't have any children to worry about, have a good education, have a good church, have rewarding friendships, am a sole proprietor, etc...

In other words, feminism can't really hurt me because I'm not in a position of vulnerability to which any female or female legislated ideology can hurt me directly or indirectly lol.

Sure I have my independent conservative Christian bias but I'm somewhat uniquely in a place where I can simply sift through the data and paraphrase it without any great emotion.

As Jeremy Disher once said, "Don't hate the player, hate the game." ;)



Correlation does not imply causation.

Did y'all catch that? Here, I'll use little words this time: two things can happen at the same time, but that does not mean that one caused the other. Men don't have to be abased for women to succeed. Women don't have to be subjugated for men to thrive. Don't blame women if you are unmarried, unemployed, and mooching off your parents in your 30s (or older). That's YOUR fault.

My financial situation is the fault of ONE man, not men as a gender. I am working hard to change that and not waiting on anyone else to rescue me. Stop blaming unwed mothers because they would just be single women if a man would not have handled his sperm irresponsibly. Both genders are to blame.

Unmarried women outnumber men 2 to 1 in American Christendom. If you can't polish yourself up enough to get just one of them interested, then dude, that is your problem. But it's harder to admit that maybe you need to work on a few things to make yourself datable, so it's easier to slander you sisters in Christ, build up this straw woman of feminism (it exists, but not everywhere you think it is), and whine about American women being evil and out to castrate the world. "Gird up now thy loins like a man" (Job 38:3, 40:7).