The lockdowns accomplished absolutely nothing!

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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,387
1,506
113
#23
Excellent idea... :rolleyes:
A novel virus, no treatment and no vaccine ...yes having people collapse in the streets like they did on China and Italy is a great confidence builder for the economy.
Well, I didn't say not to develop a vaccine and have no treatments. People should take every precaution. But I don't agree with their decision to shut down the economy.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
9,387
1,506
113
#24
So the economy trumps life because we all die?

We can be derelict in our duty to hopefully save lives because we are all doing to die anyway... okay.
As I said in a previous post, everyone who has died, did so right on time and that according to God's will. No one has died ahead of their time and no one cheated death. And that because God knows the time and way of each persons time of death, even unbelievers.
 

EleventhHour

Well-known member
Nov 11, 2019
7,426
7,842
113
#25
Well, I didn't say not to develop a vaccine and have no treatments. People should take every precaution. But I don't agree with their decision to shut down the economy.
It takes time to do that.. the economy would have suffered either way and possibly worse when I have looked at the models.

People do not go to work when they are scared and paying for staff when non one comes in the door is more damaging to the bottom line.
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,629
3,568
113
#26
Too soon to tell. Texas spiked three weeks after public protests and I am wondering if they will trace it to the protesters.

My state is just starting their open up phase how could this study have been done already? Too soon.

I predict 250,000 deaths in the US by end of August. I predict a record spike in infection cases in one month from today. I am using simple logic. I hope I am wrong. If I am wrong I am predicting that the slow down will be directly related to the warmer weather and its effect on how the virus spreads.
I predict that the media, the c d c, the medical industry that is getting bailout money for every covid case and death, will continue to do what they have been doing for 2 and 1/2 months-

make the numbers say what ever they want.
 

Billyd

Senior Member
May 8, 2014
3,513
432
83
#27
Mark July 4, 2020 on your calendar. Every business that hasn't opened by that date, will reopen on the following Monday, regardless of what the naysayers and politicians say.
 

Papou

Active member
Aug 9, 2018
195
74
28
#28
That is the conclusion of a recent study by J. P. Morgan. In fact, infection rates dropped after countries and states decided to reopen. However, millions of livelihoods were destroyed. China could not have asked for a better outcome. We could call this "the Chinese revenge against Trump".

Lockdowns failed to alter the course of pandemic and are now destroying millions of livelihoods worldwide, JP Morgan study claims

Coronavirus lockdowns have failed to alter the course of the pandemic but have instead 'destroyed millions of livelihoods', a JP Morgan study has claimed. Falling infection rates since lockdowns were lifted suggest that the virus 'likely has its own dynamics' which are 'unrelated to often inconsistent lockdown measures', a report published by the financial services giant said...

Author Marko Kolanovic, a trained physicist and a strategist for JP Morgan, said governments had been spooked by 'flawed scientific papers' into imposing lockdowns which were 'inefficient or late' and had little effect. 'Unlike rigorous testing of new drugs, lockdowns were administered with little consideration that they might not only cause economic devastation but potentially more deaths than Covid-19 itself,' he claimed...

..Infection rates have continued to decline even once a lag period for new infections to become visible is factored in, the report says. The R rate shows how many people each virus patient typically infects, and some countries regard a rate below 1.0 as a key indicator that the epidemic is in retreat...

..This graph [not shown here] published in a JP Morgan report shows that many countries saw their infection rates fall rather than rise again when they ended their lockdowns - suggesting that the virus may have its own 'dynamics' which are 'unrelated' to the emergency measures. The JP Morgan report includes graphs showing that 'the vast majority of countries had decreased infection rates' after lockdowns were lifted.

A second graph [not shown here] shows a similar effect in the US, showing that many states saw a lower rate of transmission (R) after full-scale lockdowns were ended. They included Colorado, Iowa, Alabama, Wyoming, Wisconsin and Mississippi, according to the chart, although not all states are included. Nevada and North Dakota are among the exceptions which appear to have had a higher rate of transmission since normal life began to resume... The report also shows many US states including Alabama, Wisconsin and Colorado enjoying lower R rates after lockdown measures were lifted... All 50 US states have at least partially reopened this week by relaxing restrictions on businesses and social distancing in varying degrees across the country

'While we often hear that lockdowns are driven by scientific models, and that there is an exact relationship between the level of economic activity and the spread of [the] virus - this is not supported by the data,' the report says. 'Indeed, virtually everywhere infection rates have declined after re-opening even after allowing for an appropriate measurement lag.

'This means that the pandemic and Covid-19 likely have [their] own dynamics unrelated to often inconsistent lockdown measures that were being implemented.' Those dynamics may be influenced by increased hand-washing and even weather patterns but seemingly not by full-scale lockdowns, the report suggests. 'The fact that re-opening did not change the course of the pandemic is consistent with studies showing that initiation of full lockdowns did not alter the course of the pandemic either,' it says...

In some European countries, studies suggest that the measures 'did not produce any change in pandemic parameters' such as the R rate, the JP Morgan report says. Kolanovic says that lockdowns had remained in place even as 'our knowledge of the virus and lack of effectiveness of total lockdowns evolved'. 'At the same time, millions of livelihoods were being destroyed by these lockdowns,' he writes...

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...r-course-pandemic-JP-Morgan-study-claims.html
You are completely right Lockdowns are very effective in stopping the spread of infectious diseases as the covid. China is a great example of that. It shows that you can successfully stop the invisible killers, minimize the number of deaths and get back the economy. Obviously, lockdowns must be combined with others measures such as large scale testing, tracking, etc.
 
May 21, 2020
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#29
The lockdown was an immediate response from the government in an effort not to overwhelm hospitals, and at the time seemed like the right thing to do. As can be seen in the image below, in an article from hopkin's medicine written by Lisa Maragakis, M.D., the protections were out in place so that the hospitals would not be overwhelemed. This can get confusing because most people will simply get a cold and recover, however the risk groups of people who need ventilators might not be able to recieve them had the path of the virus gone accordingly to the red curve on the graph below. Screen Shot 2020-05-24 at 11.01.27 PM.png
However, as we can see, hospitals are empty and there is no reason for the lockdown anymore. So why do we still have it? Many states are trying to open back up, but are going ever so slowly. Why? We don't need this anymore! It's not going to do any more good! Well, according to an article from ITP net, media has a large part to play in this. In a quote from Dr Yasar Jarrar, he says "the amount feedback and speed of response from citizens that social media enables has been a major disruptor to governments worldwide". In other words, government officials are clearly afraid of the media. But why? This is because they are being singlehandedly held responsible for the deaths caused by corona virus. All it takes is a simple google search, and you have the charts of EVERY SINGLE PERSON who has died from corona. Now, when states finally reopen, there is obviously going to be a spike in corona as interactions make their way back to normal. Seeing as this virus is what gets all the clicks, the media will immediately jump on it for clicks and views and say how "the state was opened to early" and other degrading comments which tarnish the reputations of government officials. Now, if this were just people getting sik it would not be quite so bad, as so many people are so bored out of their minds that they wouldn't mind catching a cold if that meant everything would go back to normal. However, when you're being held responsible literally thousands of deaths which you cannot control, it makes a huge difference.

IN SUMMARY: The media is blaming the government officials for the deaths of corona because it gets better viewership, so they are scared to reopen because millions of people will blame them for thousands of deaths.

!DISCLAIMER! : I am not in any way saying that quarantine has not helped curb the amount of deaths and sicknesses, however I am saying that at this point there is not much we can do, and since so many people are struggling to survive without jobs, more harm is being caused by continuing the quarantine as opposed to opening things back up at least a little.
 

Robertt

Active member
May 22, 2019
184
83
28
53
Bahrain
#30
well things have started opening up and numbers have been increasing due to people not taking precautions. if people could be trusted to take care we wouldn't need lockdowns
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,629
3,568
113
#31
the lockdown was never about no one getting sick. the lockdown was for not overwhelming the hospitals.

somehow , the media flipped the narrative to " we can't go back, the virus is still spreading".

but, if you look at the actual numbers, the rate of infection has drooped way off. that is the key.
 

Robertt

Active member
May 22, 2019
184
83
28
53
Bahrain
#32
the lockdown was never about no one getting sick. the lockdown was for not overwhelming the hospitals.

somehow , the media flipped the narrative to " we can't go back, the virus is still spreading".

but, if you look at the actual numbers, the rate of infection has drooped way off. that is the key.

no the idea in all other countries apart from USA was to stop the spread. Wear maskes wash hands keep distance.

people didn't do that well , so lock down was enforced. That worked pretty well, not perfect .

Now they removing lockdown numbers are moving up again.

Simple for all, wear a mask wash hands keep distance
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,629
3,568
113
#33
no the idea in all other countries apart from USA was to stop the spread. Wear maskes wash hands keep distance.

people didn't do that well , so lock down was enforced. That worked pretty well, not perfect .

Now they removing lockdown numbers are moving up again.

Simple for all, wear a mask wash hands keep distance
i am in georiga ( u.s), and things began re-opening about a month ago.

the rate of infection has gone down, with about 20,000 tests results coming in per day, only about 500- 800 cases a day are being found.

that is what is important , the number of positive tests found/ number of test results ratio.

so, the " numbers are going up where the lockdowns are being lifted " is a total media lie.
 
Mar 21, 2009
719
253
63
New York
#34
i am in georiga ( u.s), and things began re-opening about a month ago.

the rate of infection has gone down, with about 20,000 tests results coming in per day, only about 500- 800 cases a day are being found.

that is what is important , the number of positive tests found/ number of test results ratio.

so, the " numbers are going up where the lockdowns are being lifted " is a total media lie.
The database https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/ is showing 20K a day in the US. What am I missing?
 

gb9

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,629
3,568
113
#35
The database https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/ is showing 20K a day in the US. What am I missing?
the missing link is rate of infection.

when the u.s. was testing less people , we were averaging about 30,000 cases per day,

now that we are testing more people, we are averaging about 18,000-22,000 cases per day.

more tests, less virus= rate of infection.
 

tourist

Senior Member
Mar 13, 2014
31,372
9,441
113
65
Florida
#36
so you are relying on a banks opinion rather than doctor's or scientist's. Huh... What has this world come to...
It's simple economics. Prohibit people earning a living results in scarcity. Entire families have been devastated due to excessive restriction of freedom that is, in effect, unconstitutional.

This crisis is really about power and control.

Regarding the opinion of doctors and scientists, there was not a consensus on the best course of action, so it depends on whose advice to consider and follow. A letter signed by 600 US doctors was sent to Trump urging him end the lockdown totally as the damage it is causing such as abject poverty, homelessness, suicides, alcoholism, despair, depression, hopelessness, etc. is far worse than the cure and will manifest itself in the months and years to come dwarfing the effects of coronavirus in comparison.

This will be the true crisis.

People have already died as the result of being denied access to routine health care and medical procedures critical in maintaining quality of life and erosion of health. A lot of the deaths reported as the result of coronavirus in reality had nothing to do with the virus itself. A person admitted to a hospital with serious health issues and who happened to also carry the virus is now classified as a coronavirus death regardless of the actual effects of the virus on the patient who would have died regardless.

The lockdown in America is ending because Americans say that it is ending. Power and control. Save a life - destroy a family is the mantra that was instituted by politicians isolated in their own little world from the harmful effects of their misguided policy. They don't feel your pain but rather are the cause of it.
 
Mar 21, 2009
719
253
63
New York
#37
no the idea in all other countries apart from USA was to stop the spread. Wear maskes wash hands keep distance.

people didn't do that well , so lock down was enforced. That worked pretty well, not perfect .

Now they removing lockdown numbers are moving up again.

Simple for all, wear a mask wash hands keep distance
the missing link is rate of infection.

when the u.s. was testing less people , we were averaging about 30,000 cases per day,

now that we are testing more people, we are averaging about 18,000-22,000 cases per day.

more tests, less virus= rate of infection.
Either way, I am not running around in public until I get the vaccine.
 

1christian1

Well-known member
Sep 13, 2018
2,317
773
113
#39
It's simple economics. Prohibit people earning a living results in scarcity. Entire families have been devastated due to excessive restriction of freedom that is, in effect, unconstitutional.

This crisis is really about power and control.

Regarding the opinion of doctors and scientists, there was not a consensus on the best course of action, so it depends on whose advice to consider and follow. A letter signed by 600 US doctors was sent to Trump urging him end the lockdown totally as the damage it is causing such as abject poverty, homelessness, suicides, alcoholism, despair, depression, hopelessness, etc. is far worse than the cure and will manifest itself in the months and years to come dwarfing the effects of coronavirus in comparison.

This will be the true crisis.

People have already died as the result of being denied access to routine health care and medical procedures critical in maintaining quality of life and erosion of health. A lot of the deaths reported as the result of coronavirus in reality had nothing to do with the virus itself. A person admitted to a hospital with serious health issues and who happened to also carry the virus is now classified as a coronavirus death regardless of the actual effects of the virus on the patient who would have died regardless.

The lockdown in America is ending because Americans say that it is ending. Power and control. Save a life - destroy a family is the mantra that was instituted by politicians isolated in their own little world from the harmful effects of their misguided policy. They don't feel your pain but rather are the cause of it.
I have not heard or read of Any of the statistics that you have given. Anywhere...And I sure that if this were true. Trump would be the First to mention this at his press conferences. True or not...