trying to figure out what Gods plan is with having my back get so messed up.

[blue_ladybug]

I accept that challenge. How about all the murdered people in the world, whose parents have gone to Congress and gotten laws enacted to keep children safer, such as the Amber's Law? Better known as amber alerts. Or the family members of drunk driving victims, who lobbied for tougher laws against drunk drivers and got them enacted? Surely you have heard of SADD and MADD. Was Joni Eareckson's accident caused by demonic oppression? NO. It was caused by a careless head first dive into rocky water. Simple as that, human error paralyzed her. Demonic oppression did not.

Did she give up, say "why me" and moan about her predicament? Nope. From the beginning she worked to make herself physically better to the level that she could use her body again in one capacity or another. She's written books, and even had TV movies made about her ordeal, yet never once has she blamed God. She has only thanked him for it throughout the entire ordeal. If I recall correctly, she makes beautiful paintings by holding the brush in her mouth. Her whole life screams God's glorification.

How about Chris Reeve, whose fall from a horse rendered him a quadriplegic? Did he curse God? No, he didn't. He made the best of the situation, became an inspirational icon to other quadri/paraplegics, and even created the Christopher Reeve Foundation.

Now as the untimely deaths of the addicts you know. Were they demonically oppressed? Most likely yes, because their addiction had such a grip on them. That, combined with they may not have wanted God's help. So their own choice to drink themselves to death killed them. Same with drug addicts. But, through their stupid mistakes, God is still glorified in that others who knew these people may be smart enough to avoid the same fate someday.

God always shows his grace to us. Sometimes in ways we don't even realize until much later. The people here with afflictions, myself, Angela, Blain, Lynn and others, inspire others simply by sharing their stories of how God was with them through their trials, and brought them out much stronger in their faith. You have 63 years of not being healed, I've got nearly 46 years of not being healed. It WILL NOT HAPPEN in this earthly lifetime. But one day soon, in an instant we will be transformed into a painfree, disease free eternal body and THEN you'll understand why we all had to go through what we are.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Here is a reply by JesusLives, from another thread. I think she explains it quite well.




Reminds me of a song..... I beg your pardon I never promised you a rose garden....

We live in a world full of sin and God didn't promise to take away our troubles or problems, but He promised to be with us through them. God is also in the business of character building and He will do whatever it takes to help us on the road to Salvation.... We repent and ask for forgiveness accepting Jesus as our Savior and then the character building process takes place I believe some refer to it as sanctification....

We go through trials and such in order to refine us as in a fire.... God gets rid of the dross and we come out shiny and new in Christ Jesus.... None of us will see the perfection until we are with God.... sanctification is the work of a lifetime...God's work not ours... and sometimes the process is painful....

I like that someone used Joseph's life as an example... Sometimes you have to get sold into slavery and go to prison before you see a reward of becoming a ruler....or position of importance.

Even Moses had to tend sheep for many years before he herded/lead people...

 

[simplifiedtruth]

It is sad that some people resort to using unwarranted titles such as "stupid" and "trolls". Obviously it is a concession that their arguments are biblically unsupportable and that they have lost the debate. By contrast, when I use the term of "unfortunates" it is meant as a sign of sympathy for those who are suffering and certainly not as a derogation. As it is written in II Timothy 3:16, 'all Scripture is God breathed and profitable for teaching, and conviction of sin, for correction of error, and for instruction.' This is strictly my intent.

Let's re-cap: the Bible tells us that Jesus's servants can duplicate and surpass his miracles as shown in John 14:12. That upon receiving the Holy Spirit one is forgiven of their sins and miraculously cured of all demon created afflictions (examples of those afflictions as shown in the NT are seizures, paralysis, and even death). That upon being so cured God is glorified by the spreading of the news of those actions. Bearing in mind that according to the Bible God is immutable (that is he NEVER changes) {Malachi 3:6; Psalm 33:11}, I have quoted chapter and verse to prove every point that I have made here. Therefore, Spirit filled Christians should be enjoying the same relief from demonic oppression as shown in the NT. My critics have failed to debunk any of that and have resorted to criticism, instead. Further, as pointed out by Simplifiedtruth, they are injecting their opinion in place of biblical teaching.


I again challenge anyone on this forum to prove to me that demonically caused oppression such as paralysis, seizures, or untimely deaths glorify God when they clearly show an absence of Spirit filled grace as in the examples I listed above.

This may be very sad news for most, but unless a believer has received the Holy Spirit baptism with fire with evidence of speaking in tongues, which is the gift of God, he has not been received by Jesus Christ. Many are called, but few are chosen. A believer without the gift of the Holy Spirit has not received the power of God which he has promised every believer! To overcome sin in their lives, cast out demons, healing , charging up the spirit by praying in tongues and many other gifts. Probably 99% of people claiming to be believers are either greatly deceived on this or are religious hypocrites following doctrines and religion of man contrary to the scripture.

Acts 1:4 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]And, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. 5For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts 2:1 And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place. 2And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting. 3And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. 4And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

Acts 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do? 38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. 40And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. 41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.42And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.43And fear came upon every soul: and many wonders and signs were done by the apostles. 44And all that believed were together, and had all things common;45And sold their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man had need.

Acts 19:1 [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples, [/FONT]2[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost. [/FONT]3[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John's baptism. [/FONT]4[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus. [/FONT]5[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]When they heard [/FONT]this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. 6And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. 7And all the men were about twelve.

John 14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.16And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; 17Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.18I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. 19Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also. 20At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. 21He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. 22Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? 23Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. 24He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.25These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present with you. 26But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Please put aside all religious preconceptions and believe the scripture! Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever! And healing and great miracles are for YOU.

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

 

[peacenik]

I accept that challenge. How about all the murdered people in the world, whose parents have gone to Congress and gotten laws enacted to keep children safer, such as the Amber's Law? Better known as amber alerts. Or the family members of drunk driving victims, who lobbied for tougher laws against drunk drivers and got them enacted? Surely you have heard of SADD and MADD. Was Joni Eareckson's accident caused by demonic oppression? NO. It was caused by a careless head first dive into rocky water. Simple as that, human error paralyzed her. Demonic oppression did not.

Did she give up, say "why me" and moan about her predicament? Nope. From the beginning she worked to make herself physically better to the level that she could use her body again in one capacity or another. She's written books, and even had TV movies made about her ordeal, yet never once has she blamed God. She has only thanked him for it throughout the entire ordeal. If I recall correctly, she makes beautiful paintings by holding the brush in her mouth. Her whole life screams God's glorification.

How about Chris Reeve, whose fall from a horse rendered him a quadriplegic? Did he curse God? No, he didn't. He made the best of the situation, became an inspirational icon to other quadri/paraplegics, and even created the Christopher Reeve Foundation.

Now as the untimely deaths of the addicts you know. Were they demonically oppressed? Most likely yes, because their addiction had such a grip on them. That, combined with they may not have wanted God's help. So their own choice to drink themselves to death killed them. Same with drug addicts. But, through their stupid mistakes, God is still glorified in that others who knew these people may be smart enough to avoid the same fate someday.

God always shows his grace to us. Sometimes in ways we don't even realize until much later. The people here with afflictions, myself, Angela, Blain, Lynn and others, inspire others simply by sharing their stories of how God was with them through their trials, and brought them out much stronger in their faith. You have 63 years of not being healed, I've got nearly 46 years of not being healed. It WILL NOT HAPPEN in this earthly lifetime. But one day soon, in an instant we will be transformed into a painfree, disease free eternal body and THEN you'll understand why we all had to go through what we are.

human error paralyzed her. Demonic oppression did not

untimely deaths


The Bible CLEARLY shows demonic oppression causes these things. You have yet to show me anything in the Bible that contradicts what I wrote.



why me?


Perhaps you have overlooked the Psalms such as 22:1,2 or 42:9 where the psalmist cried out "why me?". Even Jesus says "why did you forsake me?" What happened next? They were relieved of oppression then they glorified God. This further proves that the healing takes place first, then the glorification takes place afterwards and I have shown you several times already. I can give you many other examples but the point has been incontrovertibly proven.

I have no quarrel with people resolving themselves to their fates. If you do so that is your choice. What does bother me is that others were not given that chance whether because they succumbed to alcoholism, drug addiction, suicide, or homicide. The example of the psalmist shows they have every right to complain and to cry out in protest. Unlike him, however, they were not relieved of the oppression and God was not glorified as a consequence.

 

[peacenik]

This may be very sad news for most, but unless a believer has received the Holy Spirit baptism with fire with evidence of speaking in tongues, which is the gift of God, he has not been received by Jesus Christ. Many are called, but few are chosen. A believer without the gift of the Holy Spirit has not received the power of God which he has promised every believer! To overcome sin in their lives, cast out demons, healing , charging up the spirit by praying in tongues and many other gifts. Probably 99% of people claiming to be believers are either greatly deceived on this or are religious hypocrites following doctrines and religion of man contrary to the scripture.

What you have written constitutes 100% incontrovertible biblical truth.

These people fail to realize that they are openly admitting they are NOT in possession of nor imbued by the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, the demonic oppression they are suffering from would have been relieved. Further, they would have the power to heal others of such oppression. Again, this is not commonly taught in Christian professing churches. But it is taught in the Bible. You and I have made that clear by invoking that book's teachings and proving each point by backing it up with biblical proofs. I have yet to see even the slightest refutation of anything that I have written here.

 

[TemporaryCircumstances]

It is soooo hard to let go of all control and to place all of our trust in the Father. You seem to have a good understanding that He has the better plan whether we understand why or not, but do you really believe it sweetie. You just need to let go and trust him fully. I know it seems that what has happened to you is not fair and there is no reason for it, but you are a child of God and He loves you unconditionally. Sometimes, I found trials are put in our way so we have to learn to lean on the Father and ask for Him to provide the strength we need to get through it because alone we are not strong enough. Through the trials we grow in our relationship with the Maker of heaven and stars. God bless you.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Demonic oppression did NOT cause Joni's accident. She simply chose a bad place to dive into water, and that's all. Demons didn't make her land where she did, and paralyze her for life. For whatever reason, you refuse to believe that we are NOT ALL healed in this life time.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

Demonic oppression did NOT cause Joni's accident. She simply chose a bad place to dive into water, and that's all. Demons didn't make her land where she did, and paralyze her for life. For whatever reason, you refuse to believe that we are NOT ALL healed in this life time.

Healing is the children bread...
Matthew 15:26[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.

Have you recieved the adoption by the Spirit with Power ? If not then the promise is for all who believes.
1 Corinthians 4:20 For the kingdom of God [FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]is not in word, but in power. [/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The truth is we are all infested with evil spirits right from birth all through life. We need the ministry of deliverance ! and to come out of this wicked demonic generation. Deliverance and healing go hand in hand. If you have not recieved the promise of the Spirit , seek a man of God who has that can distribute the power of God to you.[/FONT]

 

[simplifiedtruth]

What you have written constitutes 100% incontrovertible biblical truth.

These people fail to realize that they are openly admitting they are NOT in possession of nor imbued by the Holy Spirit. Otherwise, the demonic oppression they are suffering from would have been relieved. Further, they would have the power to heal others of such oppression. Again, this is not commonly taught in Christian professing churches. But it is taught in the Bible. You and I have made that clear by invoking that book's teachings and proving each point by backing it up with biblical proofs. I have yet to see even the slightest refutation of anything that I have written here.

Yes this is true. Because it is not taught in the churches and because the wrong message is put out people don't even want the Holy Spirit, and many call those who have it for using the power of the devil, like the pharisees did, blaspheming the work of the Holy Spirit.

 

[peacenik]

I'm still waiting for anyone - and I mean anyone - to prove to me that the Bible is wrong or that anything I have written here is inconsistent with its teachings.

 

[blue_ladybug]

This isn't a debate thread. I say we stop derailing Jennifer's thread and get back to the original OP. And Peacenik, stop being so concerned with being proven right. People disagree with you, and that's their right.

 

[peacenik]

OK. But if you please do not resort to recriminations that are unsupportable by biblical teaching.


Note that Jennifer acknowledges that the injury/illness to her back comes from God. She wants to know why it was brought upon her. Perhaps this was done so that she could learn that she, like so many others, has been taught incorrectly by Christian professing churches. What she needs to do is to have a genuine minister of God to set her free from demonic possession so that she can be cleansed of their corrupting influence. Upon having this done she may then glorify God through her example. This is what the Bible shows. I hope that she and all others will forgiven of any past sins and soon be set free.

 

[blue_ladybug]

It is impossible for christians to be demonically possessed. Dark cannot dwell with light..

 

[simplifiedtruth]

It is impossible for christians to be demonically possessed. Dark cannot dwell with light..

Paul seemed to have an abundant amount of demonic problems:

Romans 7: 14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Ephesians 6:10 10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

If evil spirits were not a problem for the believer then there would be no need for the deliverance and healing ministry (Mark16:17)
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

And remember healing and deliverance is the Children's bread! Not the unbelievers bread.

 

[peacenik]

It is impossible for christians to be demonically possessed. Dark cannot dwell with light..

Catholics, Lutherans, and especially Pentecostals (among other Christian denominations) teach the precise opposite. You may google specific church doctrines for each denomination for further information.

 

[Miri]

Catholics, Lutherans, and especially Pentecostals (among other Christian denominations) teach the precise opposite. You may google specific church doctrines for each denomination for further information.

Doesnt mean Google is right. I go to a Pentecostal church and they don't teach this.

Meself I think demons can attach themselves onto a person but not possess them.
I think demons can taunt and tempt (and they do). But it's not possible
for the holy spirit and an evil spirit to live side by side in a person.
Thats assuming a person has the indwelling spirit.

There can be people who "turn over a new leaf" but they are not filled with
anything. Jesus warned about this.


Matthew 12:43-45 NKJV
[43] "When an unclean spirit goes out of a man, he goes through dry places,
seeking rest, and finds none. [44] Then he says, 'I will return to my house from
which I came.' And when he comes, he finds it empty, swept, and put in order.
[45] Then he goes and takes with him seven other spirits more wicked than himself,
and they enter and dwell there; and the last state of that man is worse than the first.
So shall it also be with this wicked generation."


PS you have to read the whole of that chapter to put it into context, Jesus was speaking to the
scribes and Pharisees. In other verses he described them as like white washed tombs full
of dead men's bones. They were swept but empty of spiritual life.

 

[Miri]

Paul seemed to have an abundant amount of demonic problems:

Romans 7: 14For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. 16If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. 17Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 18For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. 19For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. 20Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.21I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. 22For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 23But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 25I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Ephesians 6:10 10Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

If evil spirits were not a problem for the believer then there would be no need for the deliverance and healing ministry (Mark16:17)
17And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

And remember healing and deliverance is the Children's bread! Not the unbelievers bread.

You need to read Mark 16 v 17 in context. The disciples were being sent out to
preach the gospel. He wasn't suggesting believers needed demons casting out, it
was unbelievers.

Paul also spoke of being tempted but that is different to demon possession.

You are right we are in a battle but for the spirit filled believer that does not mean they
are possessed.


Mark 16:15-18 NKJV
[15] And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature.
[16] He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be
condemned. [17] And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast
out demons; they will speak with new tongues; [18] they will take up serpents; and if they
drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and
they will recover."


Just wondered how many have seen someone who is demon possessed and if you would
recognise it. I have, if you knew what it actually means and how it totally changes a person.
How they think, their demeaner etc. You would not say a true Christian can be demon possessed,
it's like chalk and cheese.

Yes demons can taunt and follow and even attach themselves to the outside of a Christian,
but they cannot possess them. That attachment can lead to physical symptoms I've seen that
as well, headaches, depression, feeling of burden etc. Most of the physical symptoms arise
from the mind, stress, etc, hyperventilating and so on. But you know what, just simple
prayer and praise sends them running. Praise is a powerful weapon, plus the realisation of
what the problem is.

I could give you examples but I won't as to do so tends to attract the wrong sort of mind set
and there will be those reading who are more interested in demonic things in an unhealthy way
which I don't want to encourage.

 

[Depleted]

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

The scriptures is what is Truth, not mans opinion. Scriptures must be line upon line, here a little and there a little. You can not wrest scripture to try to denounce other scripture. This is eisegesis: The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

Yes, you're very good at eisegesis. That's why I asked if you and Peacenik are a team.

 

[Depleted]

He sure wouldn't side with the ones who moan and complain and say that the reason they're sick can't possibly be a good one.. God helps those who help themselves..

Actually, untrue. God helps the helpless. Franklin made up that God helps those who help themselves.

 

[Depleted]

Oh, come on, people! You're playing into their game. This is what they do -- endlessly and incorrectly babble on about God's word specifically to see how long they can keep Christians chasing after them.

"Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God." They've put noise cancellation plugs in their ears and are simply seeing how long they can drag this out.