trying to figure out what Gods plan is with having my back get so messed up.

[simplifiedtruth]

You, like me, actually quote the Bible to prove the position you are taking on this subject.

Ladybug has not done so.


Therefore, if Jesus was here, who would he side with on this debate?

He would probably say this: Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

 

[peacenik]

I Chronicles 16:8 = ''give thanks to God in all things, call upon his name, make known his deeds among the people". Paul was likely quoting the Old Testament when he wrote that in Ephesians 5:20. Indeed, all over the NT it was said to continually make known the deeds of Jesus and the apostles. And what were those deeds? Healings and miracles.

 

[peacenik]

He would probably say this: Matthew 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Exactly. I have read numerous posts all throughout this website where people express their opinions on what they perceive to be true Christian ideas. Unfortunately, these people fail to back up their claims with biblical quotes which actually prove those claims. Sadly, as we saw above, they immediately accuse those of us who quote the Bible as being "trolls". This is certainly something Jesus would NOT do.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Mark 5:34: He said to her, "daughter your faith has healed you, go in peace and be freed from your suffering".

Myself and others here have immense faith, yet are not healed. The healings of Jesus' time were to demonstrate that he was God. Miraculous healing on an every day level does NOT happen today.

 

[blue_ladybug]

I Chronicles 16:8 = "give thanks in ALL things, call upon his name, make known his deeds among the people". Paul was likely quoting the Old Testament when he wrote that in Ephesians 5:20. Indeed, all over the NT it was said to continually make known the deeds of Jesus and the apostles. And what were those deeds? Healings and miracles.

Exactly, give thanks in ALL things, including illness. Yet few ever do. Jesus healed EVERY ONE back then to prove to them that he was God. He does NOT heal ALL today.

 

[blue_ladybug]

You, like me, actually quote the Bible to prove the position you are taking on this subject.

Ladybug has not done so.


Therefore, if Jesus was here, who would he side with on this debate?

He sure wouldn't side with the ones who moan and complain and say that the reason they're sick can't possibly be a good one.. God helps those who help themselves..

 

[blue_ladybug]

I Chronicles 16:8 = ''give thanks to God in all things, call upon his name, make known his deeds among the people". Paul was likely quoting the Old Testament when he wrote that in Ephesians 5:20. Indeed, all over the NT it was said to continually make known the deeds of Jesus and the apostles. And what were those deeds? Healings and miracles.

Then why did Jesus sometimes say "go and tell no one of your healing", if he wanted the news of it to be spread worldwide?

 

[peacenik]

Then why did Jesus sometimes say "go and tell no one of your healing", if he wanted the news of it to be spread worldwide?

You are quoting out of context.

Jesus said tell no one but "show yourself to the priest" so that others would be told by him - see Matt 8:4. This way the man would have a witness thereby actually glorifying God.

As always, better to be healed than to wallow in illness.

 

[blue_ladybug]

You are quoting out of context.

Jesus said tell no one but "show yourself to the priest" so that others would be told by him - see Matt 8:4. This way the man would have a witness thereby actually glorifying God.

As always, better to be healed than to wallow in illness.

Whether the priest told everyone, or the healed person did, news still got around even though Jesus' didn't want recognition of it..

 

[peacenik]

Whether the priest told everyone, or the healed person did, news still got around even though Jesus' didn't want recognition of it..

Please re-read that passage and it will eventually appear that my interpretation is the correct one.

 

[blue_ladybug]

Was the priest even present when Jesus healed the man? If not, he can't possibly be a witness to anything.. He only has the man's word that Jesus healed him.

 

[peacenik]

As if Jesus's word wasn't good enough. It may be that it was the priest who sent him to Jesus.

 

[Depleted]

I am waiting for the OP to come back and post...,


The other folks should make their own thread and I refuse to reward their trollish, rude behavior with a response.

But recommend all re-read the verses on the difference between worldly wisdom and wisdom from above...difference between godly sorrow and worldly sorrow....especially if you think yourself a scholar.

I considered whether I should or shouldn't respond to the off-topics. I've had 44 years of hearing a lot of this stuff said about/to/being disabled, and know Jennifer is still trying to figure what is true and what is hooey. This felt like Jennifer was getting hit with much of the garbage all at once. There are answers to the garbage, so I thought I'd show her some of the answers, so she didn't have to gradually figure those things out for herself.

(And, yes, I know you weren't calling me a troll. Just wanted to explain why I brought off-topic in topic.)

 

[Depleted]

The only ones giving trollish answers on here, are the ones who say people with afflictions need deliverance from evil spirits, or that they need more faith, or to live a holier life.. JMO

Just so you know, Blue. I'm 99% sure Ariel wasn't calling us trolls. I'm 60% sure she wasn't calling the one you consider a troll a troll either. (Ignorance or naivety doesn't mean that's a troll.) We are being passive-aggressively played with on here though.

 

[Depleted]

Yes we need deliverance from evil spirits!

Ephesians 6:12 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 11Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Our fight is with spiritual entities warring against us! One third of Jesus Christ's ministry was Deliverance from evil spirits!
Jesus Christ went about healing ALL who where oppressed by the DEVIL (Acts 10:38).

Matthew 12: When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. 44Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. 45Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.

Luke 13:16 And ought not this woman, being a daughter of Abraham, whom Satan hath bound, lo, these eighteen years, be loosed from this bond on the sabbath day?

Mark 9:23 Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth. 24And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief.25When Jesus saw that the people came running together, he rebuked the foul spirit, saying unto him, Thou dumb and deaf spirit, I charge thee, come out of him, and enter no more into him.

John 5:14 Afterward Jesus findeth him in the temple, and said unto him, Behold, thou art made whole: sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee. Exodus 15:26 And said, If thou wilt diligently hearken to the voice of the LORD thy God, and wilt do that which is right in his sight, and wilt give ear to his commandments, and keep all his statutes, I will put none of these diseases upon thee, which I have brought upon the Egyptians: for I am the LORD that healeth thee.

Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.

God is the one who heals us, a big part of Jesus ministry was healing and deliverance from evil spirits, and he told us to go and do the same ! I have given you scriptural references to the devil oppressing people and Jesus healing them. It is not He's will that anyone goes about with illness because he is the Healer and want us life and life in more abundance. Illness and sickness ARE associated with evil spirits, and transgression to God's commands are a direct cause of it. The solution is obedience and deliverance in Jesus name! Do not be ignorant of this scriptural truth.

Are you and Peacenik a team? Are we being tag teamed here?

 

[Depleted]

I have given you three examples from the Bible which shows that the healing takes place first, then the glorification of God occurs afterwards. Can you show me three examples from that same source which shows the opposite? I fully realize that the churches teach people to accept their fate of sickness as it supposedly is good for the soul. But the New Testament gives us example after example which teach us that healing is a sign of divine forgiveness of sin. In fact Jesus was quoted as saying "thy sins are forgiven" when a person was healed. And another instance (I forget which one) where a person was not healed meaning that he clearly was not forgiven of his sins ever what they were.

The Bible teaches that "greater miracles than these" are to be performed via the power of the Holy Spirit. I see NOTHING in the New Testament which teaches that we are not to have miracles and healings. If being sick to you constitutes "blessings" than so be it. But when I see NT teaching I see that sickness is oppression of the devil (Acts 10:38).


In your post, you express your opinion. In my post I invoke biblical teaching. Again, if you can show me where you opinion trumps biblical teaching I shall happily accept that your ideas have more validity.

No, in your post -- all your posts -- you feign interest in God, but make it under your terms, and make sure the terms are impossible to meet. It's a game. A very dangerous game.

And, I'm sorry if I'm not as stupid as you prefer, but I don't play these kinds of game, and you're just back to pretending you're either literary or a scholar for fun.

 

[Depleted]

You, like me, actually quote the Bible to prove the position you are taking on this subject.

Ladybug has not done so.


Therefore, if Jesus was here, who would he side with on this debate?

Tag teamed! Gotcha now!

 

[simplifiedtruth]

Are you and Peacenik a team? Are we being tag teamed here?

2 Timothy 2:23 [FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. [/FONT]

[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]The scriptures is what is Truth, not mans opinion. Scriptures must be line upon line, here a little and there a little. You can not wrest scripture to try to denounce other scripture. This is eisegesis: [/FONT]The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

 

[simplifiedtruth]

As if Jesus's word wasn't good enough. It may be that it was the priest who sent him to Jesus.

Revelation 18:1 And after these things I saw another angel come down from heaven, having great power; and the earth was lightened with his glory. 2And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devils, and the hold of every foul spirit, and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird. 3For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.4And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

2 Corinthians 6:14[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?[/FONT]15[FONT=Trebuchet, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?[/FONT]16And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you,18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.

Just as Lot fled the city so must we if we want to live a life of peace and happiness to serve God in newness of life. The unbelievers are infested with every unclean bird and plagues, and we share of it if we live with this Babylonian world system.

 

[peacenik]

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

The scriptures is what is Truth, not mans opinion. Scriptures must be line upon line, here a little and there a little. You can not wrest scripture to try to denounce other scripture. This is eisegesis: The word eisegesis literally means “to lead into,” which means the interpreter injects his own ideas into the text, making it mean whatever he wants.

It is sad that some people resort to using unwarranted titles such as "stupid" and "trolls". Obviously it is a concession that their arguments are biblically unsupportable and that they have lost the debate. By contrast, when I use the term of "unfortunates" it is meant as a sign of sympathy for those who are suffering and certainly not as a derogation. As it is written in II Timothy 3:16, 'all Scripture is God breathed and profitable for teaching, and conviction of sin, for correction of error, and for instruction.' This is strictly my intent.

Let's re-cap: the Bible tells us that Jesus's servants can duplicate and surpass his miracles as shown in John 14:12. That upon receiving the Holy Spirit one is forgiven of their sins and miraculously cured of all demon created afflictions (examples of those afflictions as shown in the NT are seizures, paralysis, and even death). That upon being so cured God is glorified by the spreading of the news of those actions. Bearing in mind that according to the Bible God is immutable (that is he NEVER changes) {Malachi 3:6; Psalm 33:11}, I have quoted chapter and verse to prove every point that I have made here. Therefore, Spirit filled Christians should be enjoying the same relief from demonic oppression as shown in the NT. My critics have failed to debunk any of that and have resorted to criticism, instead. Further, as pointed out by Simplifiedtruth, they are injecting their opinion in place of biblical teaching.


I again challenge anyone on this forum to prove to me that demonically caused oppression such as paralysis, seizures, or untimely deaths glorify God when they clearly show an absence of Spirit filled grace as in the examples I listed above.