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S
Have to say, I do understand where the OP is coming from so I don't think he deserves all the heat he's getting. He seems genuine enough at least.
To the OP: As a man, I completely understand your problem with modern female dress; it's often immodest to the extreme and for any man struggling with temptations of the flesh, it certainly doesn't help. You asked is leading someone into sin a sin? Of course it is! However it depends on how conscious the person is that they are leading another to sin.
We definitely need our eyes firmly fixed on Jesus constantly so that we can look a scantily clad young woman in the eyes and show her the love of Christ, not the lust of the eyes she is far more familiar with.
To the OP: As a man, I completely understand your problem with modern female dress; it's often immodest to the extreme and for any man struggling with temptations of the flesh, it certainly doesn't help. You asked is leading someone into sin a sin? Of course it is! However it depends on how conscious the person is that they are leading another to sin.
We definitely need our eyes firmly fixed on Jesus constantly so that we can look a scantily clad young woman in the eyes and show her the love of Christ, not the lust of the eyes she is far more familiar with.
R
Have to say, I do understand where the OP is coming from so I don't think he deserves all the heat he's getting. He seems genuine enough at least.
To the OP: As a man, I completely understand your problem with modern female dress; it's often immodest to the extreme and for any man struggling with temptations of the flesh, it certainly doesn't help. You asked is leading someone into sin a sin? Of course it is! However it depends on how conscious the person is that they are leading another to sin.
We definitely need our eyes firmly fixed on Jesus constantly so that we can look a scantily clad young woman in the eyes and show her the love of Christ, not the lust of the eyes she is far more familiar with.
To the OP: As a man, I completely understand your problem with modern female dress; it's often immodest to the extreme and for any man struggling with temptations of the flesh, it certainly doesn't help. You asked is leading someone into sin a sin? Of course it is! However it depends on how conscious the person is that they are leading another to sin.
We definitely need our eyes firmly fixed on Jesus constantly so that we can look a scantily clad young woman in the eyes and show her the love of Christ, not the lust of the eyes she is far more familiar with.
Remember and NEVER forget Jesus hates lukewarm Christians. I am aware now, of several mistakes in this post - one blanketing all women - I DO encounter Christian women daily who respect the Word and live it. Also, the smiley face on the OP is not appropriate....
Apologies where they are do!
A
U
Ahh... the live and let live attitude...as the world fades away...
Okay, you make some great points. I don't remember saying I was a victim of these women; simply that the manner of dress is getting out of hand. Also, if it wasn't thrown in my face every second of the day, I would have a softer stance.
I practice a great deal of self control sir. I never said they were causing me to sin. In fact, all it does is cause more contempt for them. Also, I am well aware the BURDEN is on me, that's why I deal with it with great help from the Holy Spirit. Should I then rejoice in the fact that I have to fight this battle? Doubtful.
While you are correct - 85% of them are not Christian (I attend a Christian church, so don't even try it on the remaining 15%) - you make it seem it's my responsibility to ignore what's going on and just practice self control. Not the case sir. I have young boys that don't need this non-sense.
My candle's light will not be hidden...
A
Okay, you make some great points. I don't remember saying I was a victim of these women; simply that the manner of dress is getting out of hand. Also, if it wasn't thrown in my face every second of the day, I would have a softer stance.
I practice a great deal of self control sir. I never said they were causing me to sin. In fact, all it does is cause more contempt for them. Also, I am well aware the BURDEN is on me, that's why I deal with it with great help from the Holy Spirit. Should I then rejoice in the fact that I have to fight this battle? Doubtful.
While you are correct - 85% of them are not Christian (I attend a Christian church, so don't even try it on the remaining 15%) - you make it seem it's my responsibility to ignore what's going on and just practice self control. Not the case sir. I have young boys that don't need this non-sense.
My candle's light will not be hidden...
A
Now, when i present scripture, that you did not even acknowledge, and personal responsibility, you try to apply extremist views on me. Just because you are taking an extreme stance does not give you the right to twist my words into extremes so you can find a leg to stand on.
I clearly stated Christian women do bear some responsibility.
I said that non-Christian women can't be expected to be held to the same standard.
I also, using scripture, stated that if it's Your temptation then You take responsibility, not blame women and expect them to take extreme measures so you don't have to exercise self control.
Your young boys are going to grow up to be men that live in this environment, so they are going to have to learn to practice self control as well.
Now lets go over some of your own words.
"I don't remember saying I was a victim of these women"
"Also, if it wasn't thrown in my face every second of the day, I would have a softer stance."
One minute you're claiming that you are not saying you are not a victim, the next you say it's thrown in your face and causing you to take a harder stance. 'Having it thrown in my face, so i get upset because they are doing this to me' is a victim stance.
Also i made no such claim as 'live and let live'. What i said was 'take responsibility because worldly people cannot be held to Christs standards'. Big difference.
You can argue semantics, put your extreme take on things on other people falsely, etc... but you clearly stated from the beginning that women should be covered head to toe so you wouldn't have to deal with temptation. That is your first post. And that is, using scripture, not a biblical way of thinking. Yet scripture is the one thing you continue responding to, but rather twist the words of those who disagree with you.
First you rejected it because it came from a woman, and that she didn't understand. But when it came from a man you still rejected the scriptures and a refusal to accept your attempt to place blame elsewhere.
K
Ahh... the live and let live attitude...as the world fades away...
Okay, you make some great points. I don't remember saying I was a victim of these women; simply that the manner of dress is getting out of hand. Also, if it wasn't thrown in my face every second of the day, I would have a softer stance.
I practice a great deal of self control sir. I never said they were causing me to sin. In fact, all it does is cause more contempt for them. Also, I am well aware the BURDEN is on me, that's why I deal with it with great help from the Holy Spirit. Should I then rejoice in the fact that I have to fight this battle? Doubtful.
While you are correct - 85% of them are not Christian (I attend a Christian church, so don't even try it on the remaining 15%) - you make it seem it's my responsibility to ignore what's going on and just practice self control. Not the case sir. I have young boys that don't need this non-sense.
My candle's light will not be hidden...
A
Okay, you make some great points. I don't remember saying I was a victim of these women; simply that the manner of dress is getting out of hand. Also, if it wasn't thrown in my face every second of the day, I would have a softer stance.
I practice a great deal of self control sir. I never said they were causing me to sin. In fact, all it does is cause more contempt for them. Also, I am well aware the BURDEN is on me, that's why I deal with it with great help from the Holy Spirit. Should I then rejoice in the fact that I have to fight this battle? Doubtful.
While you are correct - 85% of them are not Christian (I attend a Christian church, so don't even try it on the remaining 15%) - you make it seem it's my responsibility to ignore what's going on and just practice self control. Not the case sir. I have young boys that don't need this non-sense.
My candle's light will not be hidden...
A
I see both sides of the issue. I don't have children but I have two nephews. We watch the Disney channel and at times I've had to change it. The oldest is ten and is coming up to those years of temptation. So I do understand that side of it. But we are in the world not of it. There is no way that we can avoid these situations. Talent means nothing these days. People like Miley Cyrus and "Lady" Ga Ga have shown us everything from their tonsils to toenails. Sex is all that sells now days. They use it to sell beer to toothpaste. Its a pity. Nothing left to the imagination.
I think people are taking you the wrong way. I don't think you literally want women to dress like Muslims. I think you're talking about some more modesty in dress. And it can go both ways here. Ive seen young men in church wearing "skinny jeans" that make women have to look at the ground too. I noticed this issue more when I began to date my husband. We'd be walking together and some half dressed woman would jiggle by and throw a smile at my husband. He's 6'4 so he's hard to miss. And it began to bother me. I believe I've always dressed modestly without being frumpy or totally out of style. But men and women need to be careful in this area. You sort of came at it the wrong way but I think I understand what you are trying to say.
R
... You know what, I little disturbance for the complacent is just fine....
... yet, I don't wanna think about skinny jeans though... :/ lol...
Seriously though, just to clear the air, I demand all women I encounter to be wearing tents.... that way the world can ensure I am not tempted! Is this not the true intent?
A
You know what, I little disturbance for the complacent is just fine....... yet, I don't wanna think about skinny jeans though... :/ lol...
Seriously though, just to clear the air, I demand all women I encounter to be wearing tents.... that way the world can ensure I am not tempted! Is this not the true intent?
A
K
... You know what, I little disturbance for the complacent is just fine....
... yet, I don't wanna think about skinny jeans though... :/ lol...
Seriously though, just to clear the air, I demand all women I encounter to be wearing tents.... that way the world can ensure I am not tempted! Is this not the true intent?
A
You know what, I little disturbance for the complacent is just fine....... yet, I don't wanna think about skinny jeans though... :/ lol...
Seriously though, just to clear the air, I demand all women I encounter to be wearing tents.... that way the world can ensure I am not tempted! Is this not the true intent?
A
I moved to the south from Canada. The spring/ summers here can get into the hundreds pretty fast. So the tent idea won't fly for me. lol I dont know how they do it over there in the desert. You have to move up north where we go to the beach in snowsuits. Nary a temptation there.
First, in no way do I condone the Islamic faith! It's disgusting to me (literally). I don't care if they are the good ones or the bad ones..wrong is wrong.
But having spent time in the middle east one thing that struck me as "throw back" yet effective ... anyone care to guess?????????
But having spent time in the middle east one thing that struck me as "throw back" yet effective ... anyone care to guess?????????
I had muslim classmates in high school and college, and some do act and think decent. A surgeon i know was very 'kind' to his patients, and is serving mostly non-muslims here in Luzon island. When i read 'where muslims may just have it right,' i also thought how they deal with cleanliness. I can say i do not know very many well enoguh to say they live clean or dirty, but long ago i heard this house vacated by muslims, and was told they left it very dirty..and for a long time i had that impression that they lived 'dirty.' When i got close to a muslim classmate, however, and had to eat w/ her some time, what struck me was their not eating of pork and pork products. So i had to forego ordering that when we ate, in a way to show respect.
In time i learned abt what they cnsider halal, or 'clean" products and services. To us, non-muslims, this may seem strange, but the stricter muslims think it very important that they do not 'touch' non-halal stuff. In a local poultry farm, for example, they would want to know if there were also pigs in the farm, if laborers who worked w/ the pigs also handled teh chicken, and so on. Did The delivery truck serve pork products? In a way, that is how they see cleanness i see.
Sure, muslims get sick of what others do too, but knowing they forego pork, i thought, they probably do much less? At least on fat, toxins and antibiotics-caused illnesses and diseases if they have a large chunk of their diet on healthier options. I see this is 4 paragraphs long, wc i seldom do unless i am carried away. At least i hope this puts some light on some muslim ways, wc we may not have had a chance to deal with living in mostly western communities.
A
There have been Christians who have lost everything, have been beaten, imprisoned, torn apart, boiled in oil, thrown to lions, crucified... because they would not deny the name of Jesus Christ. And we're going to use the lame excuse that someone else is tempting us to sin because of their clothing? Please. We are all without excuse.
There is only one way; Jesus Christ in us. When you realize that in reality we walk by faith and not by sight, that the flesh will NEVER submit to God, and that we no longer acknowledge ANYONE in the flesh, you will know the truth and you will be set free.
Everything else is the world. We're not of the world anymore. Each of us must see everything thorugh the eyes of Christ. Our only hope.
There is only one way; Jesus Christ in us. When you realize that in reality we walk by faith and not by sight, that the flesh will NEVER submit to God, and that we no longer acknowledge ANYONE in the flesh, you will know the truth and you will be set free.
Everything else is the world. We're not of the world anymore. Each of us must see everything thorugh the eyes of Christ. Our only hope.
A
- I'm going to ask the Holy Spirit for a calm heart as I reply to this...
Just know men (especially young men) have struggles that women don't necessarily understand fully...
* drops the mic *
Just know men (especially young men) have struggles that women don't necessarily understand fully...
* drops the mic *
* picks up mic *
Is this thing on? check...check...
Ok, so let's see. I was raised with five ornery, extroverted brothers who's aim it was to be heard... loudly; I myself raised two strong-willed, outspoken sons; I have a gregarious son-in-law in the entertainment industry in L.A.; and I have four affable & intuitive grandsons who were raised to speak their minds. And of course I was married to a huge, manly man (he has now passed from this world) who was a loud biker, a hard rock musician, a science genius, a chess champion, a classic debater & a Christian. He was nobody's fool.
I have a pretty good idea what men struggle with.
And I would bet all the gold in Fort Knox (if the gold is even there yet, that is
) that any one of the men in my family would tear your weak argument apart with just a disapproving look if you ever tried to blame a woman in our family for tempting you to lust. I can guarantee that. There isn't a man in our clan who tolerates sexism against their sisters, wives, mothers, & grandmothers. And my father... whoa! We won't even go there! Us kids would never be stupid enough to disrespect our mother in his presence! I praise God for the men in my family. YAY! \
/ And I praise God for the men on this site who hold to the truth. (Thank you, dear gentlemen for standing in the gap for us women!) Let nobody say they are tempted by God or anyone else... they are tempted by their own lust and enticed. [James 1:13] <<< Your argument attempts to deny this truth.
ramx, your argument is invalid.
*puts mic back into mic stand*
S
* picks up mic *
Is this thing on? check...check...
Ok, so let's see. I was raised with five ornery, extroverted brothers who's aim it was to be heard... loudly; I myself raised two strong-willed, outspoken sons; I have a gregarious son-in-law in the entertainment industry in L.A.; and I have four affable & intuitive grandsons who were raised to speak their minds. And of course I was married to a huge, manly man (he has now passed from this world) who was a loud biker, a hard rock musician, a science genius, a chess champion, a classic debater & a Christian. He was nobody's fool.
I have a pretty good idea what men struggle with.
And I would bet all the gold in Fort Knox (if the gold is even there yet, that is) that any one of the men in my family would tear your weak argument apart with just a disapproving look if you ever tried to blame a woman in our family for tempting you to lust. I can guarantee that. There isn't a man in our clan who tolerates sexism against their sisters, wives, mothers, & grandmothers. And my father... whoa! We won't even go there! Us kids would never be stupid enough to disrespect our mother in his presence!
I praise God for the men in my family. YAY! \/ And I praise God for the men on this site who hold to the truth. (Thank you, dear gentlemen for standing in the gap for us women!)
Let nobody say they are tempted by God or anyone else... they are tempted by their own lust and enticed. [James 1:13] <<< Your argument attempts to deny this truth.
ramx, your argument is invalid.
*puts mic back into mic stand*
View attachment 145363
Is this thing on? check...check...
Ok, so let's see. I was raised with five ornery, extroverted brothers who's aim it was to be heard... loudly; I myself raised two strong-willed, outspoken sons; I have a gregarious son-in-law in the entertainment industry in L.A.; and I have four affable & intuitive grandsons who were raised to speak their minds. And of course I was married to a huge, manly man (he has now passed from this world) who was a loud biker, a hard rock musician, a science genius, a chess champion, a classic debater & a Christian. He was nobody's fool.
I have a pretty good idea what men struggle with.
And I would bet all the gold in Fort Knox (if the gold is even there yet, that is
) that any one of the men in my family would tear your weak argument apart with just a disapproving look if you ever tried to blame a woman in our family for tempting you to lust. I can guarantee that. There isn't a man in our clan who tolerates sexism against their sisters, wives, mothers, & grandmothers. And my father... whoa! We won't even go there! Us kids would never be stupid enough to disrespect our mother in his presence! I praise God for the men in my family. YAY! \
/ And I praise God for the men on this site who hold to the truth. (Thank you, dear gentlemen for standing in the gap for us women!) Let nobody say they are tempted by God or anyone else... they are tempted by their own lust and enticed. [James 1:13] <<< Your argument attempts to deny this truth.
ramx, your argument is invalid.
*puts mic back into mic stand*
View attachment 145363
Also, it's not about blaming the woman in the revealing clothing for leading you into sin (lust). It's just about saying that it would be better on that woman's part to be modest in her dress.
A
If you have the Spirit of God in you, you are therefore one with Christ. And if I blame you for tempting me into sin, I am blaming Him. For if I've done it to the least of them, I do it to Christ. That's the truth. That's not Bible language verbatim nevertheless it's truth. Jesus is the Living Word.
And you and me must be reading different posts by ramx. All he keeps posting about are things he perceives in his own understanding. We walk by faith, not by sight.
And yes it is absolutely in error to accuse women of inappropriate dress because we are not to acknowledge anyone in the flesh anymore if we belong to Jesus.
A
Also, rather than repeatedly quoting scripture and trying to fit the Word into your life, why don't we just come to terms with the fact that Christ actually accomplished something. He brought us INTO life, INTO himself, INTO God. He has become our very life, for our life is found in HIS resurrection from the dead, not OURS. His resurrection IS our resurrection. His life IS our life.
So why don't we just dispense with our logic, our own understanding, our religious interpretations, and realize that we have been given the mind of Christ. Don't insist on hearing with ears of logic.
Jesus said don't recognize people by their outward man. That's exactly what He meant.
So why don't we just dispense with our logic, our own understanding, our religious interpretations, and realize that we have been given the mind of Christ. Don't insist on hearing with ears of logic.
Jesus said don't recognize people by their outward man. That's exactly what He meant.
When I read the OP, my first thought was that Muslims pray 5 times a day. Now I know they face Mecca, rattle off some Arabic liturgy about Mohammed and Allah, which of course is wrong!
But imagine if every Christian stopped 5 times a day what they were doing, and issued s heart felt prayer to Jesus, the real Saviour, Lord and God! Why we would get amazing answers, revival with people getting saved, and Christians being transformed by the power of God.
Instead I find this self centred drivel that women should wear burkas to stop men from being tempted! Here's a word from the woman someone talked about on the earlier pages of this thread!
"Suck it up guys! Spend time in the Word and prayer, so that God will direct your thoughts heavenward, instead of to lust. Rather than making women the object of your desire, make Christ the centre of your life, instead of blaming women."
And if you don't believe me, how about a word from Jesus?
"But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matt 5:28
But imagine if every Christian stopped 5 times a day what they were doing, and issued s heart felt prayer to Jesus, the real Saviour, Lord and God! Why we would get amazing answers, revival with people getting saved, and Christians being transformed by the power of God.
Instead I find this self centred drivel that women should wear burkas to stop men from being tempted! Here's a word from the woman someone talked about on the earlier pages of this thread!
"Suck it up guys! Spend time in the Word and prayer, so that God will direct your thoughts heavenward, instead of to lust. Rather than making women the object of your desire, make Christ the centre of your life, instead of blaming women."
And if you don't believe me, how about a word from Jesus?
"But I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lustful intent has already committed adultery with her in his heart." Matt 5:28
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