Bakery closes after Christians refuse to bake gay wedding cake!

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Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
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#81


If you are a Christian as you claim, would you be willing to preach the Gospel to the sodomites and encourage them to turn from their evil lifestyle? If you do preach this, wouldn't you be labelled as bigoted, intolerant and hate filled? Ironically these are the same words you used in this thread to malign conservative, Bible-believing Christians.


You have been talking about showing love to the sodomites and not being judgemental of them. Unfortunately you have demonstrated the contrary with your posts addressed to people who oppose the sodomite hatred of God.
WRONG, I will forgive you as English is not your first language, but you made the mistake of failing to read the context of my words.
[/quote]
First the statement about being against the law is a fact.

The other statements were in regard as to what a rejected homosexual would be thinking about Christians upon encountering someone like yourself who sees them as sub-human and inferior. This is problem, homosexuals are not the only sinners, but they are treated like evil creatures and not humans who need to be loved and cared for.


If you read my posts properly you would have read many times that I said that it would be better if we were nice to homosexuals so we can engage with them and end up sharing the Gospel. Preaching directly against Homosexuals is not going to work, that will just throw up barriers.

We do not need to tell homosexuals they are sinners for being homosexual, that will automatically make them walk out. We instead tell them we love them, Jesus loves them and wants to know them, regardless of their sexual lifestyle. As to if they continue with sexual conduct , thats between them and God to sort out.

I am simply pointing out that the so called Conservative Christians are bigots. I do not like the idea of homosexual marriage, I do not like the idea of homosexuals, but I have learned beating them over the head with "God hates fags" is not going to work, there already is a huge mistrust and resentment, its time to break those barriers down and show homosexuals that God really does love them and wants them saved.

This is not the middle ages anymore where a preacher could recruit people from a fire and brimstone preach and bash.
 
Mar 1, 2012
1,353
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#82
What I would like to know is, how public was this bakery known as a christian business?

Was it advertised as a christian business? Word of mouth? Fred's Christian Bakery, on the sign out front?

If so, then a christian cannot deny Christ before men. If its PART of your business, you must DO business on christian principle.

That would also prove why a gay couple went to an obviously christian business....agenda.

I don't know about most people but I tend not to create controversy in my life. If I was gay, the LAST bakery I would go to to bake my wedding cake would be a christian bakery.
 

Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
2,638
88
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#83
Not selling food or clothes to them would be be wrong even the bakery bot selling them a birthday cwke or cookies would be wrong an i think had they asked for anything but a wedding cake they would have got it... this qhole thing isnt about not selling things to homosexuals is about not helpung them with something we know is wrong.
So if a homosexual couple went into Walmart and filled a couple of carts up with party food, disposable cups, plates, party hats, streamers, balloons, poppers and so on, then went to till and woman said
"oh hi you having a party then! "
"yes, we are going to be married, this is my partner, its all stuff for our wedding".
"Oh dear", tuts the checkout woman," I can not serve you, I must ask you to leave this shop as I do not agree with your lifestyle as It goes against what God says in the Bible, and I can not sell you this as I do not support homosexual weddings".

Would this be acceptable?

DJ has the right attitude and its nice to see a Christian actually following what Christ says rather than their own prejudices.
 

JimJimmers

Senior Member
Apr 26, 2012
2,589
74
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#84
No idea about American law, but under trade laws the shop can rightly refuse customers if it is deemed inappropriate, but still must not discriminate. The examples people are giving in order to justify refusing to serve homoseuxals is ridiculous.

In Germany this New Jersey couple would be arrested for ordering a cake with a swastika and name Adolf Hitler. We all know the association and meaning of Hitler and Nazi Germany, it is for most people it is a vile and evil regime and the shop was right to refuse.
I am fine with Safeway refusing, that is not my point. I am not comparing Homosexuals to Nazis. I am saying people are fine with discrimination in certain circumstances. Also, I am not for Germany arresting this man for being a bigoted nutjob. Such a hands-on approach does not rid him of his craziness, and may cause him to just bottle it up until he does something dangerous.

Personally, I cannot object to what happened to the bakery, from a human standpoint. (Minus the death threats, naturally. That is ridiculous.) The way I see it, the bakers were within their rights to refuse to make the cake. The homosexual community was within their rights to refuse to buy from the company. The free market took care of the issue, without the need for complicated discrimination laws. The homosexuals decided to be discriminating in who the bought things from. That is not illegal. So why is it illegal for the bakers to be discriminating in who they provide a non-essential service?

To any homosexuals who are reading this, I am not against you. I am just trying to get to the bottom of a complicated legal and social issue. Jesus wants ALL to come to Him.


Showing X rated images and producing cakes in shape of penis etc is not an automatic right for a customer, shops can and will refuse that kind of thing every day and all day long and it is not illegal to refuse it according to retail law.
True. But what if it was illegal? Legality and morality are different things. Another concern I have is that some of the same people who are against the bakery would be fine with a baker refusing to bake a wedding cake with three people on it. This is because they are comfortable with gay marriage, but not with polygamy. Judging from history, polygamy is a lot more "normal", but it is still frowned upon. Our rights shouldn't be decided by the whims of society.

As far as if I would have made the cake for the couple, I have a feeling I would have. The Bible tells us to not even eat with a BROTHER who is involved in grievous sin. But if they are in the world, there is a very good chance I would make that cake to the best of my ability. There comes a time when, while you don't condone theft, you do not demand your cloak back.
 

allaboutlove

Senior Member
Jun 11, 2013
480
4
18
#85
So if a homosexual couple went into Walmart and filled a couple of carts up with party food, disposable cups, plates, party hats, streamers, balloons, poppers and so on, then went to till and woman said
"oh hi you having a party then! "
"yes, we are going to be married, this is my partner, its all stuff for our wedding".
"Oh dear", tuts the checkout woman," I can not serve you, I must ask you to leave this shop as I do not agree with your lifestyle as It goes against what God says in the Bible, and I can not sell you this as I do not support homosexual weddings".

Would this be acceptable?

DJ has the right attitude and its nice to see a Christian actually following what Christ says rather than their own prejudices.
This paticular scenerio is diffrent the cashier dosent own wal mart she dosent own the stuff the people are buying... with the bakery it is there persronal bussiness an should ref,ect there christian morals... an im not prejudice as i said erlyer i have friends who are gay an i wouldnt bake them a wedding cake for there wedding im friends with them an i dont think there sins are any worse than mine but im not goin to support there sin ether an i wouldnt want anyone supporting mine.
 

rachelsedge

Senior Member
Oct 15, 2012
3,659
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#86
Showing X rated images and producing cakes in shape of penis etc is not an automatic right for a customer, shops can and will refuse that kind of thing every day and all day long and it is not illegal to refuse it according to retail law.

Refusing to make something which has two bride models on top of cake is not legal grounds for refusing custom as its not explicit, shocking or going to cause a public indecency or cause offence, if the shop was asked to put a picture the two women in a naked embrace on the cake with everything showing, then they could refuse for the above reasons and it would be thrown out of any court if taken to court.
I think you missed my point. Perhaps I should have left off the "erotic" part, though it went with the "porn theme". If I had left that out, it still would have been a regular cake for a "sin party". What's on the cake is less important than the principle of the matter.
 
L

livingepistle

Guest
#87
Yea, and Rosa Parks was only trying to stir up trouble too. I mean, all they asked her to do was go sit somewhere else... :rolleyes:
The Bakery is not the only case. In support of this OP--Gays have an agenda to oppose any and all that will challenge their attempt to make the "Gay Lifestyle" a society norm.

Consider the following that is also posted in the CC News section:


Millionaire Gay Couple Sues to Force Church Wedding

Barrie-Tony-Drewitt-Barlow.jpg

Millionaire gay couple the Drewitt-Barlows have confirmed they have launched a legal challenge to the right of churches to opt out of gay weddings.

In fresh comments published by the Chelmsford Weekly News in the U.K. today, Barrie Drewitt-Barlow said legal action had started.

“We’ve launched a challenge to the government’s decision to allow some religious groups to opt out of marrying same-sex couples," he said.

“We feel we have the right as parishioners in our village to utilize the church we attend to get married.

“It is no reflection on our local church, who have been nothing but supportive towards us. We understand their hands are tied by a higher group of people within the church.”

Earlier this month, Drewitt-Barlow said he and his civil partner, Tony, would go to court to force gay weddings on churches.

He said at the time, “The only way forward for us now is to make a challenge in the courts against the church.

“It is a shame that we are forced to take Christians into a court to get them to recognize us.”

He added, “It upsets me because I want it so much—a big lavish ceremony, the whole works. I just don’t think it is going to happen straight away.

“As much as people are saying this is a good thing, I am still not getting what I want.”

A government bill legalizing same-sex marriage in the U.K. cleared Parliament earlier this year, and the first same-sex weddings are expected in 2014.

The legislation allows churches to opt out of performing gay weddings, and it specifically protects the Church of England.

However, top human rights lawyer Aidan O’Neill says protection for the Anglican Church is “eminently challengeable” in court.

A copy of O’Neill’s legal advice was sent to the prime minister in January, but Mr. Cameron nevertheless proceeded with the legislation.


The Bakery owner had every legal right to close the business for any reason they desired. Obviously, their reasoning was based on "Godly" principals, which is their freedom of religion. Rosa Parks was being refused a "civil service" that her tax dollars supported. Concerning this OP, it is amiss to compare Gay rights to Rosa Parks' protest against systemic racism.

The Bakery owner (s) chose to close their business rather than violate their moral and spiritual commitments to God; paradoxically, they avoid violating civil law and properly so since the law forbade discrimination.


In relation to this OP "Is the Gay couple's law suit against the Church justified?"
 
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J

jcason

Guest
#88
They don't want to support the marriage. Which is more than understandable.

God Bless Them.
Are you seriously giving someone Gods blessing for hatred towards someone?

Jesus would not be hateful to anyone, and we are followers of Christ.

Christ Wants us to be like him
1 Peter 2:21

When attracted, turn the other cheek.
 
Mar 1, 2012
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#89
Are you seriously giving someone Gods blessing for hatred towards someone?

Jesus would not be hateful to anyone, and we are followers of Christ.

Christ Wants us to be like him
1 Peter 2:21

When attracted, turn the other cheek.
\

It is not hatred to stand on christian principle and say I will not sanction a gay marriage by making a cake for it.

It is not hatred to say homosexuality is a sin. It hurts those who practice it.

Funny how true loving concern is twisted into hate, by those who embrace, condone and foster sins....eh?

Scenarios...

If I sell tires to a gay person am I condoning their lifestyle? Of course not. Baking a wedding cake, does.

Baking a birthday cake does not.