Cop Not Indicted

[kennethcadwell]

It's painful to see him error with scripture so badly. More importantly, he has zero interest in reforming his flawed understanding to what the bible actually teaches. The result is we watch him fill up post after post with lengthy erroneous rambling which gets tenuous repeatedly correcting. He is a genuine Christian with a good heart but a deeply flawed exegesis and a stubborn negative volition like most lefties I know. I'm surrounded by such people in this culture and just learn to live with them. Moving along...

"What Michael Brown's stepdad said before he climbed onto the car. In exclusive footage from after the grand jury's decision, Louis Head says, 'If I get up there, I'm gonna start a riot.'"

What Michael Brown's stepdad said before he climbed onto the car | Al Jazeera America

The only ones who correct my post's has only been four people on here, and out of those four you being one of them.
Have been over and over again by multiple of people been corrected as well, even in scripture. So for you trying to come off so high and mighty on scripture and calling others in error when it comes to scripture is not proper, or right.
For you have been called out in error many of times yourself.

You say however that my viewpoint on scripture is in error, but my view point is based on our Lords better way of life of love and forgiveness;

Matthew 22:37
Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.

Mark 12:31
And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than these.

Matthew 5:44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

( No put them to death here )

Mark 11:25-26
25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.

( Clear here also, if you don't forgive others, you will not be forgiven of your sins by God )
( No forgiveness to others, no salvation )

 

[maxwel]

Just my quick 2 cents on capital punishment.

I'm all for forgiveness.
I've been forgiven by God, and I'm to forgive others.

But all issues in scripture, if you study ALL of scripture, have a certain kind of balance.


Let me make 3 quick points

1. Justice, Consequences, & Real Mercy:
Although we are to forgive, sometimes there are simply consequences for our actions - either self imposed consequence, or consequences of reasonable justice. Serious actions bring serious consequences. God is a god of mercy, but also of justice... he uses both of these. Is there justice in letting a serial killer live? Should the consequences not be more severe for the person who murders YOUR wife, or YOUR children, and afterward laughs about it... in your face... completely unrepentant?

If a man murders your children, gleefully, laughs about it, and says he'd love to murder more... do you show mercy on this apostate man by letting him live, or do you show mercy on your wife, and on your society, by undertaking justice, and letting them know this wickedness is TAKEN SERIOUSLY and MUST be punished?

Who is really deserving of mercy....
Your wife and society, or this apostate man who murdered gleefully?

It is an act of mercy to the patient to remove a cancer.
You would rather show mercy upon the cancer cells, instead of showing mercy to the patient?

The cancer cells and the patient cannot both live.


2. The apostate:
God does talk in scripture about someone so twisted that he has MADE HIMSELF TO BE BEYOND REDEMPTION. That person is called "apostate". There ARE people who are beyond God's redemption, and not due to any fault of God. People can twist their own minds and hearts... spiral further and further into the black abyss of depravity... until eventually they are INCAPABLE of even seeing the light. This is real, and it's in the scripture. Why should we ignore it?


3. The Works of Christ:
Christ, though having the power, never removed a man from death row. Christ said many beautiful things about forgiveness and love, but he actually spoke more about hell than about heaven. God's mercy is real, but so is his justice.

Let me point out something you MUST consider. Christ had all power to do all things... did he EVER walk into a physical prison and set condemned prisoners free? Don't ignore it. Be honest. Face this. There were prisoners condemned to death when Christ walked the earth... did he EVER go into a prison and set them free? The two thieves on the cross with him... he could have removed BOTH of them from their crosses, and saved them from capital punishment. Did he? No.
We have to face ALL of scripture... not just the easy parts.


My full opinion on capital punishment:
Capital punishment for heinous acts of murder IS JUST,
but there is ALWAYS a serious danger that capital punishment will be used by corrupt men against innocent men.
This makes it far more complicated than a simple act of justice.

 

[biscuit]

God has given the government authority to exercise capital punishment, however, if it is abused, misused or used for evil purposes, it will feel God's wrath in many forms

The reality is some police officers have become judge, jury & executioner [rare] and the government entities will be paying a price somewhere down the line.

 

[dcontroversal]

The answers to the questions I posed can be found in the NT, and the answers are all yes like I said.
When you stand at the bema seat in front of Christ, and you have to give an account of your life as we all will.
If He asks you why did you want death on those people, instead of forgive them and minister repentance to them like I asked you to do. What will be your answer ?

God does use human government to do His will, but what are governments do is not always from God.
He allows evil to happen to serve His full final plan to be achieved, He Himself does not do the evil. That is where you have to discern what part of the government is from God, and what is evil being done.

The words of our Lord clearly teach to forgive, minister to, and not hold anything against another person.
The death penalty is still holding something against that person, and issuing out double punishment which is a judgment call on their life.
To side with the death penalty is doing the same as the Pharisees did with the law, that Jesus rebuked them for.

He said you hold to the other points of the law, but you neglect the main point of it, and that is love.
Once again where is love and forgiveness in the death penalty ?


Please don't use the same dead debate/argument that it is in the protection of others, and not having to pay taxes to house and feed them if kept in prison the rest of their life. Because love is to be shown to the believer as well as a unbeliever, to your God, neighbor, and your enemies. Plus that argument puts self before another, which the bible states we are not to do. We are to esteem others before ourselves, not esteem ourselves before others.

God established the death penalty and even had LOVE and MERCY built into the death penalty (cities of refuge and extenuating circumstances)

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

No. Your viewpoint is based on your own false beliefs regarding love and forgiveness which has led you to make yet another false assertion. Failing to perform a proper exegesis of the scriptures you offer in support of your false assertions only demonstrates your ignorance.

What you're doing is separating the person of Jesus from the person of God the father to comport with some view that you've assigned Jesus in your head. Jesus never contradicted God the father on anything including capital punishment... something that has already been clearly demonstrated to you but which you simply discard because it doesn't fit your own desires (which obviously drive your erroneous exegesis of scripture).

If Jesus had contradicted any of the Father's principles, let alone such a well-established one, that very disagreement would have immediately disproved His claims to be the divine Son. This was exactly the heresy the Pharisees were hoping to trap Jesus into when they brought the woman caught in adultery to Jesus. Even His enemies knew that He had to affirm capital punishment in order to prove Himself a true prophet. How strange then that Kenneth, who's made up his own false theology based on his liberal ideology, asserts that He did exactly what His enemies failed to trick Him into doing.

Far from opposing capital punishment, Jesus advocated for it, as His unity with the Father required.

You're obviously not reading any of the material from biblical scholars I'm presenting to you but rather quickly discarding it without reading it to screed out more false assertions which you "support" with erroneous exegesis.

You're in denial of the truth of God's Word on this issue and many others and demonstrating that you intend to stay that way no matter what anyone, including Jesus Himself (whose mouth you put your own words into), has to say about it.

We can go on the rest of our lives refuting your false assertions and correcting your misuse of scripture and you will still choose to hold onto that. I know this. So correcting you is really an act of love for the benefit of others. You get to be a well-intentioned but wrong protagonist that helps others when I correct you. That's your role lolol.

For everyone else (Kenneth will choose to never read this book but instead keep screeding), I suggest you read 'The Death Penalty The Death Penalty On Trial: Taking of a Life For a Life' by Ron Gleason (PhD in systematic theology from Westminster Theological Seminary and pastor of Grace Church): http://www.amazon.com/The-Death-Penalty-On-Trial/dp/0979673674

[video=youtube_share;T0yg5N20iWw]http://youtu.be/T0yg5N20iWw[/video]

You say however that my viewpoint on scripture is in error, but my view point is based on our Lords better way of life of love and forgiveness

 

[dcontroversal]

No. Your viewpoint is based on your own false beliefs regarding love and forgiveness which has led you to make yet another false assertion. Failing to perform a proper exegesis of the scriptures you offer in support of your false assertions only demonstrates your ignorance.

What you're doing is separating the person of Jesus from the person of God the father to comport with some view that you've assigned Jesus in your head. Jesus never contradicted God the father on anything including capital punishment... something that has already been clearly demonstrated to you but which you simply discard because it doesn't fit your own desires (which obviously drive your erroneous exegesis of scripture).

If Jesus had contradicted any of the Father's principles, let alone such a well-established one, that very disagreement would have immediately disproved His claims to be the divine Son. This was exactly the heresy the Pharisees were hoping to trap Jesus into when they brought the woman caught in adultery to Jesus. Even His enemies knew that He had to affirm capital punishment in order to prove Himself a true prophet. How strange then that Kenneth, who's made up his own false theology based on his liberal ideology, asserts that He did exactly what His enemies failed to trick Him into doing.

Far from opposing capital punishment, Jesus advocated for it, as His unity with the Father required.

You're obviously not reading any of the material from biblical scholars I'm presenting to you but rather quickly discarding it without reading it to screed out more false assertions which you "support" with erroneous exegesis.

You're in denial of the truth of God's Word on this issue and many others and demonstrating that you intend to stay that way no matter what anyone, including Jesus Himself (whose mouth you put your own words into), has to say about it.

We can go on the rest of our lives refuting your false assertions and correcting your misuse of scripture and you will still choose to hold onto that. I know this. So correcting you is really an act of love for the benefit of others. You get to be a well-intentioned but wrong protagonist that helps others when I correct you. That's your role lolol.

For everyone else (Kenneth will choose to never read this book but instead keep screeding), I suggest you read 'The Death Penalty The Death Penalty On Trial: Taking of a Life For a Life' by Ron Gleason (PhD in systematic theology from Westminster Theological Seminary and pastor of Grace Church): http://www.amazon.com/The-Death-Penalty-On-Trial/dp/0979673674

[video=youtube_share;T0yg5N20iWw]http://youtu.be/T0yg5N20iWw[/video]

As you know by my posts no need to convince me and I agree with what you said above....there are about 4-5 people who use this this site that refuse to hear the word, but rather will argue away words, twist the words and or context, deny truth and literally will argue with a fence post that it is a fence post because it does not fit their little theological box of ignorance. God established the death penalty, uses human government to work his will and will continue to do so till the end of the age!

 

[kennethcadwell]

First, I don't care what other people say for they could and can be wrong as well, even if they claim to be a biblical scholar.

Second, I care what my Lord says, even if I have an issue with something that Paul said and don't quite understand. I take it back to what the Lord said, and then it opens up what Paul was really saying. For he can not teach another gospel, or contradict what the Lord said. If you believe what Paul said is different then what the Lord said, it is your miss understanding and not mine, and is not a contradiction in the bible.

Adultery was a capital offense in the OT that carried a death penalty, so was working on the Sabbath a capital offense the carried the death penalty.
Lord Jesus under the new covenant stopped capital punishment on both accounts to show us an example not to issue this out. Instead of carrying out the capital punishment for these offenses, He forgave them and told them to go sin no more.
If He supported capital punishment in the NT, he would have set back and let the women caught in adultery, and both His apostles and the man He healed be put to death for being caught in what was considered working on the Sabbath.

Acts 10:34
Then Peter replied, "I see very clearly that God shows no favoritism.

Romans 2:11
For God does not show favoritism.

Peter and Paul both state that God shows no personal favoritism, so why would you think that He would take capital punishment away for certain sins but not others. That would show favoritism toward certain sinners, which they make clear He doesn't.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

This site is visited by a great many people around the world. The people you refer to here provide a valuable service as volunteer antagonists (and amend my last post above to read antagonist not protagonist), though that is not their intention, to those of us accurately sharing God's Word.

p.s. Stand by for further screeding. Though they write in standard English (hopefully) which you'll be able to immediately recognize due to its flawed information content that resembles the following: http://youtu.be/ZFj7gS6IXRw

Lolol.

As you know by my posts no need to convince me and I agree with what you said above....there are about 4-5 people who use this this site that refuse to hear the word, but rather will argue away words, twist the words and or context, deny truth and literally will argue with a fence post that it is a fence post because it does not fit their little theological box of ignorance. God established the death penalty, uses human government to work his will and will continue to do so till the end of the age!

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I understand Kenneth. Nobody can tell you nothing. Not even bible scholars. Not even Jesus who's stance on the death penalty is exactly that of God the Father's both of which you misrepresent.

This is clearly evidenced by your total dismissal of anything and everything that anyone presents to you, no matter the quality of scholarliness or credential, which does not already comport with your false exegesis.

You've made that crystal clear. We get it.

First, I don't care what other people say for they could and can be wrong as well, even if they claim to be a biblical scholar.

 

[tourist]

I understand Kenneth. Nobody can tell you nothing. Not even bible scholars. Not even Jesus who's stance on the death penalty is exactly that of God the Father's both of which you misrepresent.

This is clearly evidenced by your total dismissal of anything and everything that anyone presents to you which does not already comport with your false exegesis.

It's clear. We get it.

I like that word, exegesis.

 

[kennethcadwell]

I understand Kenneth. Nobody can tell you nothing. Not even bible scholars. Not even Jesus who's stance on the death penalty is exactly that of God the Father's both of which you misrepresent.

This is clearly evidenced by your total dismissal of anything and everything that anyone presents to you, no matter the quality of scholarliness or credential, which does not already comport with your false exegesis.

You've made that crystal clear. We get it.

That is right nobody can tell me nothing and me agree to it, if it does not match what is in the word of God.
The Word, mainly the new covenant that we are under is above all else. No man has the right to override what the Lord said. Not you, not me, not the pope, not even the Apostle Paul.

The funny thing is I gave you clear biblical evidence, and you still deny it.
God shows no personal favoritism, so He would not show favoritism to one or two sinners by taking away capital punishment for those sins, but not for others.
If you want to stick to your way of following the ordinances of the mosaic laws then remember what the bible says that you are subject to all the laws. This is why Paul contended with Peter, Peter was trying to enforce some of the mosaic laws on new gentile believers. Paul told him no that we were not held to them.
Just remember if you think capital punishment is still acceptable as by the OT, then if you have kids if they are ever disobedient to you. You have the right to kill them, so just remember that when they smart off to you next time.
Get real, this is not acceptable in the Lords eyes.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

Indeed. For a proper scriptural exegesis of the death penalty watch this video in which Dr. Gleason addresses the points we've raised in context with what the bible actually teaches:

[video=youtube_share;T0yg5N20iWw]http://youtu.be/T0yg5N20iWw[/video]

I like that word, exegesis.

 

[Dude653]

Im on the fence on this one, Did the cop have the shoot that kid? Probably not. However, if you dont want to get shot then dont attack a cop.

 

[Elin]

Another cop who showed a misuse of force, by using an unethical choke hold on an unarmed person resulting in that person's death was not indited today.
This time they had and showed video footage showing the incident, and how the man in the choke hold muffled more than once he could not breath. This officer even had help in the video by a couple other officers, but still did not relinquish the hold. The man who was killed was selling cigarettes illegally, and did resist arrest but that once again is not deserving of being choked to death.

There's an elephant in the living room which no one wants to acknowledge, and it is lawlessness.

Resisting being taken into custody when apprehended by law enforcement invites forceful consequences to the offender, in order to enforce the law.
Laws are useless if they are not enforced.
And society cannot exist without laws.

Strong arming the store manager as you walk out with stolen property, walking in the middle of the street with the stolen property in plain view, punching a cop in the face, and wrestling him for his gun all demonstrate a dangerous criminal with no respect for the law.
Nothing justifies that kind of lawless behavior, which merits a forceful response.
The responsibility for any unfavorable outcome of the situation rests entirely on the head of the lawbreaker.

That applies to all who resist being taken into custody.

And siding with the lawless in these two situations demonstrates an agenda to make lawful the resisting of law enforcement.
There was nothing unlawful in the forceful taking into custody of these two lawbreakers who forcefully resisted apprehension.

 

[Brainfreeze]

Well I suppose with the recent NY Cop Not Indicted case that I must eat my words on the camera idea. Seems even with video, even video very much public, that an obviously unarmed man, not resisting police and getting ganged up on and strangled to death on camera cannot get even the accountability issue settled, much less the crime issue.

Mike Brown case was dubious enough due to conflicting reports, but this NY case; how is it possible the police can not even be tried and examined and taken to a trial when there is clear video?

They say the cop did nothing unlawful " a loop hole ". There's nothing in the law of forcible apprehension by " choke hold ".I do agree... Cameras are not the problem, the laws need tuning,and higher paid police with better annual training as well. These are minor fixes that can help heal these types of situations..

 

[Elin]

Well I suppose with the recent NY Cop Not Indicted case that I must eat my words on the camera idea. Seems even with video, even video very much public, that an obviously unarmed man,
not resisting police and getting ganged up on and strangled to death on camera cannot get even the accountability issue settled, much less the crime issue.

Mike Brown case was dubious enough due to conflicting reports, but this NY case; how is it possible the police can not even be tried and examined and taken to a trial when there is clear video?

The man in NY refused to put his hands behind his back to be cuffed.
That is resisting enforcement of the law which required taking him into custody.

And now we have another death in Arizona, where the man fled apprehension by law enforcement, was chased and caught, and then fought with the officer to keep from being taken into custody.
His lawlessness cost him his life, which was a choice he made when he defied enforcement of the law,
and responsibility for his death rests entirely on his own head.

And doing "nothing unlawful" is not a "loop hole," it is the legal standard for right and wrong in this nation.

One wonders if these protests against enforcement of the law are encouraging further lawlessness.

There's an elephant in the living room which no one wants to acknowledge, and it is lawlessness.

In enforcement of the law, resisting being taken into custody by law enforcement invites forceful consequences to the offender.
Laws are useless if they are not enforced.
And society cannot exist without laws.

Strong arming the store manager as you walk out with stolen property,
walking in the middle of the street with the stolen property in plain view,
punching a cop in the face, and wrestling him for his gun
all demonstrate a dangerous criminal with no respect for the law.
Nothing justifies that kind of lawless behavior, which merits a forceful response to enforce the law.
The responsibility for any unfavorable outcome of the situation rests entirely on the head of the lawbreaker.

That applies to all who resist being taken into custody.

There was nothing unlawful in the forceful taking into custody of these two lawbreakers who forcefully resisted apprehension.
And "nothing unlawful" is not a "loop hole," it is the legal standard for right and wrong in this nation.

Siding with the lawless in these two situations demonstrates an agenda to make lawful the resisting of law enforcement.

 

[Brainfreeze]

and responsibility for his death rests entirely on his own head.

And doing "nothing unlawful" is not a "loop hole," it is the legal standard for right and wrong in this nation.

.

Choking a man out as he yells HE CANT BREATHE...10x, if that shouldn't be unlawful, Idk what should be... If it was a video of your son being choked to death by law enforcement, you'd feel differently.. People resist arrest a thousand times a day, THEY DO NOT DIE, it's a normal reaction after doing something wrong " non- violent crime " here by the way and knowing your going behind bars like a caged animal maybe for years... NO ONE WANTS TO GO, doesn't mean he should've died because he didn't want to go... HE WAS NOT A THREAT

 

[Brainfreeze]

This guy in New York was selling cigarettes .... Cigarettes ... How about helping the guy find a job, KILLING him helped nothing.. Actually it HURT relations, as I can see " that's the agenda " at the moment... to bad it changed nothing for me, I love cops and felons, I love whites, blacks, and everyone in between... This changes nothing for me, except that the law needs to be tuned on how to apprehend someone without endangering the subject or themselves.

Police usually will put a knee to ones back while they grab for arms to cuff hands... This is not by the book " a choke hold ". Then their usually by themselves which makes it harder.. this guy died even with four, five cops there... Smh

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I agree with you Brainfreeze. Choking out a non-combative suspect for selling untaxed cigarettes who's stating they can't breathe who is simply resisting being arrested via non-compliance because they don't want to go to prison (which is where he was headed with his lengthy rap sheet of petty crimes) is egregious.

I must say though that I would feel differently about this case if it were a murderer assaulting or threatening to harm a bystander or police officer. The offence and behavior of perpetrators matter.

That said, there is an inherent risk involved with resisting lawful arrest as it leads to physical conflict and physical conflict can and does lead to people getting hurt and even killed.

There are legal mechanisms in place after you've been arrested if you feel the arrest was unjust. You can't just resist arrest and expect to walk away. Firstly, resisting arrest is a crime in and of itself. Secondly, police officers do not have a legal option to simply walk away from the situation because you don't want to go to jail. Resisting arrest leads directly to physical confrontation and physical confrontation can and sometimes does lead to tragedy.