European refugee crisis: tensions mounting, nations reacting

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Dec 18, 2013
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#41
I'd like to think if something happened in Ireland tomorrow, that I'd be welcome somewhere else. And the Syrians, I'm sure, are desperately hoping the same thing. It's simple empathy. If people can have that, just simple empathy, then most of the tensions will be solved from it. I mean, why would the refugees feel unwelcome when people welcome them with understanding? And why would the Americans feel threatened when they want to welcome the refugees?
I agree with you especially the first statement. Answer to that is easily you could flee to America, it's Little Ireland, albeit bigger by population and area lol. America and Ireland are deeply interwoven. Irish influence is massive in American culture.

There's problems with immigration though. Problems of crimes and security to put it broadly. Then there's problems, not crimes but in a category I call Jerry Springer Show stuff, or more politely the quirks of the cultural mixture. There is more serious threats which are becoming more common though. There is a real problem with islamic attacks in Western countries and those people in many cases were immigrants. Nobody wants that and I don't blame them for not wanting that. I think it's common sense not to want to get shot or have something bad happen to others.

People are entitled to their opinion either way on immigration. Some empathy for them both indeed.

I empathize though indeed with the refugee and generally agree more with the pro-immigration side though Again it's hard not to being an American mutt lol. It is a stronger argument in my opinion to allow more immigrants for the sake of even a portion of those doing good outweighs the bad. Even expecting no recompense from them or economic benefit, for the sake of even a small handful of Christians or people that may become Christians or their children might it is worth it. A good analogy to the Bible in my opinion is found in Genesis 18.
 
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MadParrotWoman

Guest
#42
If Germany (which isn't surrounded by water on every side, I might add) can take in 800,000 asylum seekers (economic migrants or not is irrelevant -- one asylum seeker gets the same from the government as the next, the financial outcome for the UK is the same for 30,000 economic migrants as for 30,000 Syrian refugees) I'm sure the rest of our countries can do better than taking in a paltry few thousand. You're finding lame reasons to be cold-hearted.

When the entire EU and the Americans decided to give the Ashkenazis an entire country smack bang in the middle of Arab countries, displacing millions of the people who were already settled there, there were far more worrisome potential outcomes, but that didn't stop anybody. I know you're an advocate for Israel, and you deny the very existence of the Palestinians or of a place called Palestine. You openly argue with anybody who asserts (rightly) that Israel, under international law, illegally occupy thousands of square kilometres of land that was not given to them in the partition, yet you'll find issue with a few thousand Syrian refugees (and perhaps a few "economic migrants") coming to the UK to escape an all out war where their children and families are being slaughtered on the streets.

Seems Jewish children are worth far more to you than Muslim ones.
How many is Ireland taking?
 
Aug 12, 2015
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#45
How many is Omni taking?
How many are you taking Crossnote? Does your petty, childish crap invalidate my point? People need homes, food, water and shelter on a scale unlike anything since WW2, and you're devolving into puerile nonsense.
 

crossnote

Senior Member
Nov 24, 2012
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#46
How many are you taking Crossnote? Does your petty, childish crap invalidate my point? People need homes, food, water and shelter on a scale unlike anything since WW2, and you're devolving into puerile nonsense.
i never said Ireland should take any. You keep acting like we should. I've already said the USA has too many homeless as it is on our streets to take in a bigger burden. We need to clean up our own act first. Let the oil rich Islamic nations take them, they could adapt quicker to the culture shock.
Sounds by your response a chord of conviction was struck.
 
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MadParrotWoman

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#47
To be honest my biggest gripe is with France, I've not heard a thing about their numbers - if any and they are a huge country with wide open spaces.

It's OK for people to say Britain should take more but we already have hoards of illegals coming over from Calais, not to mention the invasion of eastern Europeans thanks to the EEC. Our National Health system is already at breaking point, we cannot house them all either - there is a nationwide housing shortage...it short we are running out of available land! then there is the school system, finance etc etc. People forget that Britain is a small island!

I'm not being mean or uncaring but there is only so much Britain can do!
 
Dec 18, 2013
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#48
To be honest my biggest gripe is with France, I've not heard a thing about their numbers - if any and they are a huge country with wide open spaces.

It's OK for people to say Britain should take more but we already have hoards of illegals coming over from Calais, not to mention the invasion of eastern Europeans thanks to the EEC. Our National Health system is already at breaking point, we cannot house them all either - there is a nationwide housing shortage...it short we are running out of available land! then there is the school system, finance etc etc. People forget that Britain is a small island!

I'm not being mean or uncaring but there is only so much Britain can do!
I agree there's only so much any of the nations involved can do in regards to this issue. That's why every little bit any of them does will help. For a big problem like this got to take it bit by bit.

Also last I seen for France is they plan to take 24,000 migrants over two years.
France accepts 24,000 refugees, prepares for airstrikes over Syria | euronews, world news
 
Mar 11, 2015
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#49
Omni why are you so rude ? can you not have a debate without calling people names or using vile language
 
Mar 11, 2015
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#50
Oh and by the way Omni Germany hasn't yet recieved 800,000 immegrants as they have closed the borders making it more difficult to get in. Britian sends more money to Syrian than any other country so far over 1 billion pounds as apposed to germanys 300,000 euros and germany might have more money than brits to spend as they dont have a defence to pay for or a free at the point of use national health service.
In the last 10 years Britain has had a net immigration of over 4 and a half million five times more than germany and we are a country one fith the size of germany.
 
Aug 12, 2015
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#51
Oh and by the way Omni Germany hasn't yet recieved 800,000 immegrants as they have closed the borders making it more difficult to get in. Britian sends more money to Syrian than any other country so far over 1 billion pounds as apposed to germanys 300,000 euros and germany might have more money than brits to spend as they dont have a defence to pay for or a free at the point of use national health service.
In the last 10 years Britain has had a net immigration of over 4 and a half million five times more than germany and we are a country one fith the size of germany.
Actually, that's not true.Germany has 16 million non-asylum seeking immigrants in their country right now, and expect to take 800,000 asylum seeking immigrants this year. The UK has 7.5 million foreign born residents, and expects to take less than 30,000 asylum seekers.

Germany's population is only 1/3 bigger than the UK's (the UK is 60 million, Germany's is 80 million), and Germany's population density (the amount of land available for each member of the population) is only marginally less than the UK's (the UK has a population density of 262 people per km squared, and Germany has a density of 226 people per km squared).

Germany's land mass is just over 357,000 km squared, while the UK's is about 245,000 km squared.

Therefore: Germany is not anywhere near five times the size of the UK, Germany is pretty much just as densely populated as the UK, Germany has more immigrants AND asylum seekers than the UK (both in total, AND relative to population) and on a final note: Germans also have a publicly funded comprehensive national health system they have to pay for.

With all that in mind, Germany's economy is still stronger than the UK's in every way. So the economic argument against immigration is nonsense, if you're using Germany as comparison; as is the overpopulation argument, and the "we have too many immigrants argument". Germany take in more immigrants, more asylum seekers, have better economic standing, and are more politically and economically socialist than the UK are!

Migration and migrant population statistics - Statistics Explained
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...d_dependent_territories_by_population_density
Land area (sq. km) | Data | Table
https://www.destatis.de/DE/PresseService/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/2013/05/PD13_188_121.html
http://www.ons.gov.uk/ons/dcp171776_346219.pdf
 
V

Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#52
Actually, that's not true.Germany has 16 million non-asylum seeking immigrants in their country right now ...
That's incorrect. While that is the number of residents of foreign or immigrant decent, it includes second generation and mixed heritage Germans, as well as the children of non-Germanic language speaking mothers. And that's from your own article, so you misrepresented what it said. Deliberately or not, it is still a gross misrepresentation. The true numbers -- first-generation foreign-born immigrants both legal and illegal, is about six million. Or did you forget to look at the graph in the right frame of the page? And yes, they have closed their borders to the Mideastern refugee influx, at least temporarily. That was six days ago, and thus far the border remains closed.
 
Aug 12, 2015
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#53
That's incorrect. While that is the number of residents of foreign or immigrant decent, it includes second generation and mixed heritage Germans, as well as the children of non-Germanic language speaking mothers. And that's from your own article, so you misrepresented what it said. Deliberately or not, it is still a gross misrepresentation. The true numbers -- first-generation foreign-born immigrants both legal and illegal, is about six million. Or did you forget to look at the graph in the right frame of the page? And yes, they have closed their borders to the Mideastern refugee influx, at least temporarily. That was six days ago, and thus far the border remains closed.
Great. For the most part, it makes no difference to the point. Germany and the UK's densities are roughly the same, their immigrant population is roughly the same, they both have nationalized health services, Germany still take nearly 37 times a many asylum seeking immigrants relative to populations, and Germany still have a stronger economy, a comprehensive health service, and more socialist politics.
 
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Mar 11, 2015
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#54
Omni if you are going to spout out facts at least get them right otherwise you are giving false facts.
 
Aug 12, 2015
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#55
Omni if you are going to spout out facts at least get them right otherwise you are giving false facts.
If you look at it proportionally, fact for fact, what I said was 90% right; what you said was 0% right. Cheers for the lecture.
 
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Viligant_Warrior

Guest
#56
If you look at it proportionally, fact for fact, what I said was 90% right; what you said was 0% right. Cheers for the lecture.
I'm guessing you failed to pass your SAT math section, right?

You said "16 million," the correct number is "6 million" -- you don't get points for getting one integer right. A wrong answer is a wrong answer.
 
Aug 12, 2015
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#57
I'm guessing you failed to pass your SAT math section, right?

You said "16 million," the correct number is "6 million" -- you don't get points for getting one integer right. A wrong answer is a wrong answer.
When you give 5 factual statements and get one statement with two integral facts half way wrong (being that one fact was off), well, in case you can't do fractions, that's 9/10, assuming we weight each statement equally.

But go ahead, brainbox.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#58
Interesting thread, especially to see so many UK flags. I guess because this REALLY concerns them, and right now.

Canada is slack in taking refugees. But it is because our prime minister (who I do not usually like) is insisting on security checks before allowing them in.

That is because, in Canada, unlike what GodisSalvation says about the US, the second generation is not becoming secularized but radicalized.

ISIS is recruiting young people in Canada. We have an Arab man who was killing American soldiers in Afghanistan when he was 15 years old, holding Canadian citizenship. We have white, caucasians joining ISIS. Even the mosques are trying to stop it, the older generation Muslims, because it is such a threat to young people and Canada.

I feel terribly sorry for the people who are true refugees, especially the Christians. This really is an internal war between Muslim sects, that makes Northern Island back a while ago look like a peaceful attempt at reconciliation.

My question isn't for the 'stans" as Crossnote noted, but for the 5 richest Arab countries who will not take in refugees.

Saudi Arabia, UAE, Qatar, Kuwait, and Bahrain - they have not taken in ONE refugee. Again, a sectarian war. The Saudis are radical Wahabis who don't like Shi'ites or Sunnis.

But they are rich, they have the room, and they are close. And the doors are shut! That says it all to me.

5 wealthiest Gulf Nations have refused to take a single Syrian refugee | Daily Mail Online
 
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Agricola

Senior Member
Dec 10, 2012
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#59
Correct Angela. Immigration is a huge issue in UK and has been for quite a few years now ever since the open door policy we seemed to have was exposed. We had no idea who was coming into the country and we ended up being seen a soft touch and an easy country to get into. THis is why we had the Calais camp spring up, as that was a launch point for illegal immigrants to gain access to the UK.

Problem is, the picture of the dead child on the beach seems to have sent peoples brains into liberal overload, just take what Omni says for example. In my home city of Portsmouth there was a small rally with slogans such as "open the gates and let them in" being spouted, along with the obligatory "You must be racist" comments for people who disagree, and of course the impromptu convey to Calais to distribute aid, much to the exasperation of the CalAid organisation and police.

Yes lets take some refugees in, but obviously they are going to be here for life, what have they got to return to if war ends? Rubble. Therefore we need to be wise in who we take in, everyone bleats on about Muslims, but what about the huge numbers of Christians who are refugees, how about we take in the Christians, let the Muslims remain in Turkey and Jordan.