IS THE RAPTURE NEAR : DONT DISMISS THESE SIGNS

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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
7,014
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#21
An excellent bible to study Revelation is a Thompson chain reference bible.
Good evening Saint_Stephen,

An even better study is to read Revelation, paying attention to the details of the context and use the interlinear, compare the major translations on any given text and cross-reference scripture. ;)
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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#22
Remember that religion is one of Satan’s hidden dynasties. He loves to plant false doctrines, which twist Scripture, in Christian churches.


If you believe the rapture, you may find yourself among the following group of deceived Christians when Christ returns.


And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb. Revelation 6:16


The above folks are so ashamed because they’ve been worshiping the wrong Christ.


It seems that the rapture people have forgotten how to count. The think the 7th trump comes before 6th ... that the real Christ comes before the false one comes. Christ returns at the 7th trump, not the 6th trump;


At the 6th seal, 6th trump, 6th vial (666), Michael will boot Satan, playing his role as the Antichrist (instead of Christ in the Greek), from heaven to earth (Revelation Chapter 12:6-9). Keep in mind that Revelation is a Prophetic book making the word SAW into the futuristic word "will" fall etc.


Christ also gave you all 7 seals & trumps in Mark 13, Luke 21, and Matthew 24. Have you read them with understanding?


So, from where then did the false rapture doctrine come?


Before 1830, you can find no mention of the Rapture Doctrine. That alone ought to send up a red flag. In fact, the word "rapture" is not in the Bible. So, where did this false doctrine come from? In 1830, Margaret MacDonald had an evil revelation on her sick bed, supposedly from God, in which she was shown what would become "The Rapture Of The Church", among other names.


And, from The Incredible Cover-up by Dave Macpherson, Appendix A, you'll read:


"I felt this needed to be revealed, and that there was great darkness and error about it; but suddenly what it was burst upon me with a glorious light." - Margaret MacDonald (Spring of 1830)


MacDonald's revelation would have probably died with her; however, two preachers grabbed it, cleaned it up, and presented it to Christendom. Today, you'll hear many pastors promoting that false doctrine from pulpits.
Margaret MacDonald and her family had links with Edward Irving an Anglican Clergyman who formed his own church
He translated a book written by a Jesuit Priest from Chile,by the name of Manuel De Lacunza called the coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty. This book was published under the name of Juan Josafat Ben Ezra. Lucunza taught that
the tribulation would last 45 days. Before it started Christ would appear in the air and rapture the living and dead who would remain with him in the air for the whole period and then Christ and saints would return to destroy the Antichrist and set up his kingdom. It is debated whether Lacunza actually invented the Pre trib teaching but his view seems to be at least an embrionic version of it.
 
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Dai3234

Senior Member
Sep 6, 2016
524
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#23
If there is going to be a rapture, I hope it happens right now.
I think I've heard there's 7 years of tribulations before the rapture. Is that why you want it now? To avoid the tribulations?
 

Depleted

Senior Member
Dec 13, 2015
22,166
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Philly, PA, USA
#24
I doubt it happens in the next breath, because the Bible says we don't know the day or hour of His return, but he didn't say we cannot know the season. In fact, Jesus said we can know the season, and it won't be a million years from now. Finally, 2 Thes. 2 tells us it won't happen in the next breath, because certain things have to happen first. Look it up and find out what they are.
You missed the obvious one -- no where in the Bible does "rapture" mean what it has been changed into today.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
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#25
The Apostles didn't believe in an imminent Pre Trip rapture. How do I know? Because I have read Johns Gospel.
In there the resurrected Jesus told Peter what would happen to him when he was old. Taking that he was a relatively young man at the time we can assume that he wasn't expecting Jesus to return at any moment. John who wrote the Gospel must have known about the conversation as he was mentioned as well. Unless God changed his mind around the turn of the 19th century we can be fairly sure that an imminent rapture is not going to happen until after the tribulation.
 

Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
7,014
281
83
#26
The Apostles didn't believe in an imminent Pre Trip rapture. How do I know? Because I have read Johns Gospel.
In there the resurrected Jesus told Peter what would happen to him when he was old. Taking that he was a relatively young man at the time we can assume that he wasn't expecting Jesus to return at any moment. John who wrote the Gospel must have known about the conversation as he was mentioned as well. Unless God changed his mind around the turn of the 19th century we can be fairly sure that an imminent rapture is not going to happen until after the tribulation.
Then it couldn't be imminent, because many signs would be taking place leading up to Christ's return. If I was here during that time of God's wrath, I would know that Jesus could not return until after the 7th bowl was poured out. It is imminent and that because we are warned over and over to watch, because you do not know at what time your Lord will arrive. He likened His arrival to gather the church like a thief in the night. Last time I checked, thieves don't announce their arrival.

You'll just have to watch and wait, then you will know that we were telling you the truth. The bridegroom is going to come for his bride prior to his wrath being poured out upon this earth, not after. God does not punish the righteous with the wicked.
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
1,408
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#27
Then it couldn't be imminent, because many signs would be taking place leading up to Christ's return. If I was here during that time of God's wrath, I would know that Jesus could not return until after the 7th bowl was poured out. It is imminent and that because we are warned over and over to watch, because you do not know at what time your Lord will arrive. He likened His arrival to gather the church like a thief in the night. Last time I checked, thieves don't announce their arrival.

You'll just have to watch and wait, then you will know that we were telling you the truth. The bridegroom is going to come for his bride prior to his wrath being poured out upon this earth, not after. God does not punish the righteous with the wicked.
I don't think there's a pre-trib rapture.
It is not in Scripture.
1 Thessalonians 4 and 5 go together.
Chapter 5, verse 2, Paul talks about the Day of the Lord.
His writing is a continuation of Chapter 4.
Remember, when the Bible was written, there were no Chapters.
That came a long time later.
It's easy to take Chapter 4 as a statement by itself and then Chapter 5 as a separate subject.
But if you read them both together as they were intended, you will get a different read altogether.
No pre-trib rapture, it's the Day of the Lord.
 

Tommy379

Senior Member
Jan 12, 2016
6,209
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#28
I think I've heard there's 7 years of tribulations before the rapture. Is that why you want it now? To avoid the tribulations?
I just want off this damn planet and somewhere there isn't any muslims or democrats.
 

AllenW

Senior Member
Apr 20, 2016
1,408
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#29
I just want off this damn planet and somewhere there isn't any muslims or democrats.
I think your here because God wants you to make a difference.
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
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#30
No rapture! Not in the Bible! Show me the Scripture, and 1 Thess 4:17 isn't it. That was something found in the Catholic Vulgate, which Jerome, who didn't know Greek well, translated, wrongly!

If anyone wants to discuss the Greek, I am open to do this!
 

Angela53510

Senior Member
Jan 24, 2011
9,900
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#31
I just want off this damn planet and somewhere there isn't any muslims or democrats.

This kind of escapism is exactly the opposite of what the Bible teaches about being engaged and winning Muslims and Democrats to Christ!

This is a perfect example of how a false doctrine destroys Christian witness, and draws people away from walking with God and being on mission with Him. No wonder I dislike like this rapture lie, from the pit of hell, so much!

Jesus is not going to return until everyone who is going to be saved, is saved. That is the only sign that matters.

"As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?” Matt 24:3

"And this gospel of the kingdom
will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come." Matt 24:14


In this passage, Jesus lists some signs. He ends with the fact that the gospel needs to be preached to all the nations. If you are not actively involved in spreading the gospel to the thousands of people groups who have never heard the name of Jesus, then you are part of the problem, not the solution.

I agree this is a topic for the Bible Discussion Forum, unless perhaps someone has actual news of how many new people groups now have a gospel witness is presented! That would be an interesting piece of news.
 
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Ahwatukee

Senior Member
Mar 12, 2015
7,014
281
83
#32
No rapture! Not in the Bible! Show me the Scripture, and 1 Thess 4:17 isn't it. That was something found in the Catholic Vulgate, which Jerome, who didn't know Greek well, translated, wrongly!

If anyone wants to discuss the Greek, I am open to do this!
Well Angela, it is also found in the Codex Sinaiticus, Either this is the true word of God or none of it is. We can't go believing some scripture and omitting others. Every translation has 1 Thes.4:13-17.

I don't know why you have such a problem understanding the context.

* Jesus descends from heaven to the atmosphere

* The dead in Christ are resurrected in their immortal and glorified bodies

* Those still alive in Christ are changed and caught up in clouds with them to meet the Lord in the air

* In fulfillment of John 14:1-3, Jesus takes the entire church back to the Father's house, as promised

This is not an issue about knowing the Greek, but is a matter of your continued opposition to this because the scripture is clear about this event and it will take place. It is the blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ.
 
Z

Zi

Guest
#33
If you reread the scripture it says to "them it will be as a thief in the night" we aren't in darkness and he says we will know or should before hand.. paraphrased..
Then it couldn't be imminent, because many signs would be taking place leading up to Christ's return. If I was here during that time of God's wrath, I would know that Jesus could not return until after the 7th bowl was poured out. It is imminent and that because we are warned over and over to watch, because you do not know at what time your Lord will arrive. He likened His arrival to gather the church like a thief in the night. Last time I checked, thieves don't announce their arrival.

You'll just have to watch and wait, then you will know that we were telling you the truth. The bridegroom is going to come for his bride prior to his wrath being poured out upon this earth, not after. God does not punish the righteous with the wicked.
 

tanakh

Senior Member
Dec 1, 2015
3,403
164
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#34
Then it couldn't be imminent, because many signs would be taking place leading up to Christ's return. If I was here during that time of God's wrath, I would know that Jesus could not return until after the 7th bowl was poured out. It is imminent and that because we are warned over and over to watch, because you do not know at what time your Lord will arrive. He likened His arrival to gather the church like a thief in the night. Last time I checked, thieves don't announce their arrival.

You'll just have to watch and wait, then you will know that we were telling you the truth. The bridegroom is going to come for his bride prior to his wrath being poured out upon this earth, not after. God does not punish the righteous with the wicked.
My post was aimed pre tribbers who are getting worked up about 23 September because they do not recognise the fact that a number of things have to happen before he returns. One very large and important sign is the Antichrist and his empire which obviously isn't here yet. I didnt realise you were among the Pre Trib fraternity
 

Burninglight

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2017
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#35
You are right Paul spells it out so plainly in 2 Thessalonians 2 that a child could understand it. Unfortunately some people would rather hang on to fantasies rather than the truth
LOL, it couldn't be clearer some say on here that Jesus comes before the false Christ. Yea he came before the antichrist as our Savior when He died and rose 2000 years ago.

Are they missing chapters in their Bibles such as Matthew 24 and 2 Thes. 2? I don't get it. They are setting themselves up for a big falling away. It is really funny, if it weren't so very sad. I tried to reason with people in my church about it, but they look at me crossed eyed.
 

Burninglight

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2017
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#36
I just want off this damn planet and somewhere there isn't any muslims or democrats.
You can come to my house there are no Muslims here or democrats, but I do witness and pray for them from my house. I am also praying them out of office.
 

Burninglight

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2017
518
10
0
#37
If you reread the scripture it says to "them it will be as a thief in the night" we aren't in darkness and he says we will know or should before hand.. paraphrased..
That is correct. This alone tells us that it isn't imminent and Jesus even warns us not to believe in His imminent return, because every eye will see Him as lighting from one end of the earth to the other. The Scripture says "the day of the Lord" not the days of the Lord. Can't they just read what Paul said in 2 Thes 2. Why do they make false inferences when they have explicit Scriptures? I don't get it.
 

Burninglight

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2017
518
10
0
#38
Then it couldn't be imminent, because many signs would be taking place leading up to Christ's return. If I was here during that time of God's wrath, I would know that Jesus could not return until after the 7th bowl was poured out. It is imminent and that because we are warned over and over to watch, because you do not know at what time your Lord will arrive. He likened His arrival to gather the church like a thief in the night. Last time I checked, thieves don't announce their arrival.

You'll just have to watch and wait, then you will know that we were telling you the truth. The bridegroom is going to come for his bride prior to his wrath being poured out upon this earth, not after. God does not punish the righteous with the wicked.
Who told you it would be imminent. Look at the Scripture instead of foot notes put in you Bible by Scofield and Darby. We don't know the day or hour but we will know the season. We are close but no cigar.
 

Burninglight

Senior Member
Jun 24, 2017
518
10
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#39



This kind of escapism is exactly the opposite of what the Bible teaches about being engaged and winning Muslims and Democrats to Christ!

That's right. Escapism what pretrib teaches. I hate the term "Rapture," because I know the doctrine that surrounds it. God coming to rescue Christians from persecution, the antichrist, Muslims and democrats, oh, and their comfort zones, lol
 

Joshie

Junior Member
Jun 14, 2017
21
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#40
Everyone what are you doing! Stop arguing... this is exactly what the devil wants. Instead let us discuss the information please do not argue, we are all in this together and we must listen to the Gospel and what it teaches about the second equally important commandment as the first telling us to love one another.

This post was not made to divide us I was simply asking for you to watch the video and provide your thoughts on this, let's not say this person is wrong or that person is wrong but rather let's work together to bring forward the truth of the scriptures. With the help of everyone I believe we can come to a conclusion, let's currently agree to disagree if it comes to that but please don't bicker between each other.

I love you all and We are in this as a team we all have Christ in us so don't offend one another, please no arguments on this thread.