NICE! Sanders thread

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Mar 2, 2016
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We can't, I know. But I can flip that coin around and say how do we know someones suffering was not needless? Only God knows, and I don't think He is letting me or you in on that.
Suffering is necessary for God to show that He is good.
 
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Kisses1990

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I'm sorry to say this, but that is pure, unadulterated BS... (Bernie Sanders).

If that WAS true, then why don't we all have a good healthcare plan for $3.50 per month?


And, who do you think is going to PAY for that "free" healthcare?
We don't ahve a good healthcare plan for $3.50 a month because that's not enough money to fund it. $3.50 a month would only work so long as EVERYONE doesn't need healthcare all at the same time. All of our taxes goes toward the service and whenever we need it, we take it. Absolutey free. At least, that's what I think Bernie Sanders is proposing.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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That is a whole 'nother can of apples. I am not debating if it is necessary or not, just how do we mere mortals know what is needless or not?
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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It is interesting though how Bernie Sanders brings up more substantive policy discussion than Donald Trump. I suppose that's a plus.
yes, that really is interesting, probably very telling, and that's another thing i like about him, and detest about Trump's campaign :)
 
Dec 18, 2013
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the GOP is seriously falling apart these days. it's been painfully transparent since Obama was elected. even in the campaign leading up to it -- claiming to be the 'party of Christian conservatives' and floating a mormon.

whatevs
I agree on that, but I see that as just a symptom. This started long ago. From my estimation started with W, but that's just for my lifetime, probably started before that looking at history.
 
Mar 2, 2016
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That is a whole 'nother can of apples. I am not debating if it is necessary or not, just how do we mere mortals know what is needless or not?
Our lives are a series of events, each one having an affect on tomorrow and we can't see the forest for the trees.
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
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Jan 15, 2011
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Do you know who Margret Sanger is? You should read all you can about her. You sound like her....you should hear what she has to say about black people.
Blacks are like weeds that need to be destroyed ..through abortion ..Hillarys hero and blacks just keep voting for these people?
Wow...I sincerely hope you're being facetious...
Mitspa was posting Margret Sanger's (one of the founders of Planned Parenthood) viewpoint, not his own. Margret Sanger was a strong proponent of eugenics and using abortion to control the population of African Americans. Interesting that her plan is working pretty well since when you look at the number of abortions by race African Americans are at the top of the list even though they represent a small percentage of the population.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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We have like 3 or 4 conversations going on here at once. Which is cool. I just find it a little amusing.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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This is a misunderstanding. In science, the word "theory" means "fact". The word is not used in the same way laypeople use it. The Germ Theory of Disease is a fact. We know microscopic organisms cause sickness. I highly doubt that will ever be overturned lol. I should be even more specific. Science is in the business of disproving things. We can't prove ANYTHING to 100%. But the Germ Theory of Disease is the absolute best theory we have to explain witnessed phenomena. It's as close to a fact as we can get. The same for the Theory of Evolution. "Theory" in science is not a wild guess or speculation. It's a body of evidence that paints a picture about reality.

You're right. There are still MANY more questions regarding embyrology. We don't know everything. But we know a lot. You asked "why is any child born with a birth defect". I can answer that. It's because of genes and mutations.
Maybe I'm misunderstanding your posts. They come off terribly pretentious and dripping with condescension, but maybe I'm reading them wrong.

Are saying that you believe human beings evolved from apes?

Look, the Lord loves you and I'm not judging you, I just need to know if I have to put you on ignore because I just can't stomach the obvious lie of evolution. I've argued this to those who believe this lie many times and know that there is virtually no fruit in it.
 
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Kisses1990

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Suffering is one of the main vehicles that God uses to draw us close to him.
Do you know how to listen? I accept that God might use suffering as a way to get closer to him--for adults, it can really spark their faith. But a little new born baby that will only live a few hours of torment...no. That's needless suffering, and I blame the parents. That baby is already with God, sick or not. And if it's sick (like missing an important organ), let's not be cruel and force it to suffer.

If you hit a deer on accident and it's dying in the middle of the road, do you allow it to suffer, or do you put it out of it's misery?
 
Mar 2, 2016
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We have like 3 or 4 conversations going on here at once. Which is cool. I just find it a little amusing.
I was just rolling with the abortion one and maybe soften that young ladies heart a tad.
 
Mar 2, 2016
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Do you know how to listen? I accept that God might use suffering as a way to get closer to him--for adults, it can really spark their faith. But a little new born baby that will only live a few hours of torment...no. That's needless suffering, and I blame the parents. That baby is already with God, sick or not. And if it's sick (like missing an important organ), let's not be cruel and force it to suffer.

If you hit a deer on accident and it's dying in the middle of the road, do you allow it to suffer, or do you put it out of it's misery?
Mt state law says you are to call the fish and game and let them handle it. I'm sure lots of people have bashed their heads in with a tire iron or whatever they had available tho.

And yes...I listen just fine.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
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Do you know how to listen? I accept that God might use suffering as a way to get closer to him--for adults, it can really spark their faith. But a little new born baby that will only live a few hours of torment...no. That's needless suffering, and I blame the parents. That baby is already with God, sick or not. And if it's sick (like missing an important organ), let's not be cruel and force it to suffer.

If you hit a deer on accident and it's dying in the middle of the road, do you allow it to suffer, or do you put it out of it's misery?
Wow! What this type of thinking really means is "If I were god I wouldn't allow X to happen, therefore the real God would never allow X to happen". This is really bad thinking.
 
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Kisses1990

Guest
Wow! What this type of thinking really means is "If I were god I wouldn't allow X to happen, therefore the real God would never allow X to happen". This is really bad thinking.
Ok, well if that's true, then please tell me how an infant can learn a lesson from suffering when it's going to die within minutes? I don't think God's the one allowing ANY of this to happen, btw, I think it's the parent's fault, not God...

But hey, maybe I'm wrong about everything and you are right. Maybe we can all agree to think more deeply about all of these subjects and try and find the answers God wants us to find.

Also, you asked if I accept evolution, yes I do. I am currently studying all about it in school as we speak.
 
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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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I agree on that, but I see that as just a symptom. This started long ago. From my estimation started with W, but that's just for my lifetime, probably started before that looking at history.

the thing i find the most painful is seeing brothers and sisters clinging to the carcass of the GOP as if it's somehow a 'given' that a Christian is supposed to vote republican, even if it comes to backing someone as ludicrous (IMHO) as Trump. that's some kind of far-out dangerous level of deception going on! and it's very sad, but seems very prevalent too.

maybe, just like Sirk said, i should be glad for this too - separating out the tares; and those whose eyes are open from those who are blinded. in a way i do understand this as good - that all things should become transparent, and i'm thankful He gave me eyes to see some of it, dimly - but it's painful. i have so much sorrow in me, i can't express :(
it's not just politics, but politics is symptomatic of it
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
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Ok, well if that's true, then please tell me how an infant can learn a lesson from suffering when it's going to die within minutes? I don't think God's the one allowing ANY of this to happen, btw, I think it's the parent's fault, not God...

But hey, maybe I'm wrong about everything and you are right. Maybe we can all agree to think more deeply about all of these subjects and try and find the answers God wants us to find.
If you really want to get to it, it is all our "faults".
And yes, God is allowing this to happen, btw.
 
Mar 2, 2016
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Ok, well if that's true, then please tell me how an infant can learn a lesson from suffering when it's going to die within minutes? I don't think God's the one allowing ANY of this to happen, btw, I think it's the parent's fault, not God...

But hey, maybe I'm wrong about everything and you are right. Maybe we can all agree to think more deeply about all of these subjects and try and find the answers God wants us to find.

Also, you asked if I accept evolution, yes I do. I am currently studying all about it in school as we speak.
Maybe it isn't the infant learning anything. Maybe it's drawing a husband and wife closer together. It could be a number of things your nearsightedness cannot see.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
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Mitspa was posting Margret Sanger's (one of the founders of Planned Parenthood) viewpoint, not his own. Margret Sanger was a strong proponent of eugenics and using abortion to control the population of African Americans. Interesting that her plan is working pretty well since when you look at the number of abortions by race African Americans are at the top of the list even though they represent a small percentage of the population.

it's not working all that well though (from her perspective) -- as a percentage of population, and in sheer number, the African American population continues to grow

((btw i hope you're not in here to ban Kisses1990 - my opinion about Mitspa wanting to report her is in post #491 :)))
 
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Mitspa

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Wow! What this type of thinking really means is "If I were god I wouldn't allow X to happen, therefore the real God would never allow X to happen". This is really bad thinking.
Its sad this type of stuff is put forth on a Christian site .
 
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Kisses1990

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Maybe it isn't the infant learning anything. Maybe it's drawing a husband and wife closer together. It could be a number of things your nearsightedness cannot see.
I wasn't "nearsighted" to it. That could be entirely true, but I don't think it's plausible because there could be any number of more innocuous ways God could draw the husband and wife closer to each other. It doesn't have to happen as a result of something tragic. I think that is a twisted perspective on God. He doesn't relish in our suffering...