NICE! Sanders thread

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Utah

Banned
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
252
0
Welfare takes away the right for people to fail. Big government shouldn't come with the middle classes money and bail out those who have not been able to make it. If some one isn't making it then they should work harder, not get a free-be. That's what their friends and family are for. Plus socialism is for big government, and I think all government should do is creat laws and protect its citizens with the military, not tell me how to raise my kids and spend my money.
Funny how the anti-Trump socialists skipped over this ^^^^ so I quoted it.
 

posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,711
13,519
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oh, i think i may see the trouble....
you're somewhat of an idealist (in a sociological sense, not a philosophical or ontological sense).
while i am a recovering pessimist! (but praise God, He is faithful and my mind is being renewed :))

as a woman, wife, mom, grandmom, i really, really don't like war. particularly acutely unnecessary war.
so i'm with you on the cut military spending gig. :)

did you ever read the book "New Deal or Raw Deal"? it gives a different perspective to FDR's policies.
i think it's quite possible they actually prolonged the depression, and it truly was WW2 that ended it.

as a recovering pessimist, i guess i don't place too much faith in the government as far as cutting waste or getting rid of fraud.
Mark owns a contracting business and one of his contracts is with the local housing authority...
it's tragic the stuff that goes on there. :(

but... it would be great if that did happen!!
universal single payer sounds okay, but that isn't what Sanders proposes, is it? he wants something more like what they have in Canada and the UK?

'free' college... i just wish it had happened before my kiddos had their education debt. :p
eh... they mostly went to private schools, anyway.

i'm still not convinced, but i am learning. thank you for taking the time to help with that. ♥

the good news is that if you can describe yourself as "recovering" then you are not a complete pessimist!
haha yes, i am an idealist. there are in fact stars in my eyes
:p

Sander's plan is single-payer insurance, not government control of healthcare. i am not sure how the CA system works, but i understand that in the UK doctors are government employees? that is not what Sanders proposes, though he's often accused of that. people tend to just hear "socialist" (leaving off the "democratic" part) and make all the worst assumptions, then accuse him of all those, without finding out if any are true.
here is his healthcare proposal --
https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/
isn't it nice when a candidate actually has a plan, and not just rhetoric?
;)
it even outlines how he thinks we can pay for it.

i've never read that book, but if i get time i'll look for it or something about it.

i'm convinced that any republican president is going to lead us into war. Trump is way to volatile and offensive, and Cruz promises to have the same approach to foreign policy, even if he *might* show more tact. i don't know about Kasich, but just having some sense of the GOP, i expect he's not any different on that issue.
i was convinced of this when Bush jr. was elected, and it turned out to be true, and remain convinced over the last 8 years. to me, that's a bigger issue than a lot of other things.
 
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Kayiw1

Guest
Funny how the anti-Trump socialists skipped over this ^^^^ so I quoted it.
Bernie Sanders is raising taxes on those making Over 250,000 a year, which is upper class, NOT middle class!!
 

Desdichado

Senior Member
Feb 9, 2014
8,768
838
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Bernie Sanders is raising taxes on those making Over 250,000 a year, which is upper class, NOT middle class!!
Economics 101! I don't care which book you pick up even if it is John Maynard Keynes.

The notion that A) this is remotely truthful and B) that it, if true, it wouldn't hurt the middle class is simply farcical.
 

Utah

Banned
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
252
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Bernie Sanders is raising taxes on those making Over 250,000 a year, which is upper class, NOT middle class!!
You believe that? You believe a socialist getting elected to the Presidency is not going to push for taxes across the board on every working person? I know you're not that naïve.
 

Sirk

Banned
Mar 2, 2016
8,896
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Bernie Sanders is raising taxes on those making Over 250,000 a year, which is upper class, NOT middle class!!
Youve fallen victim to class envy.
 

PennEd

Senior Member
Apr 22, 2013
13,569
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I give her credit for one thing; she's admits to being a socialist. Her honesty is integral.
I agree. She is very honest and respectful. I find myself liking her very much. I'm sorry to say that is not the norm of those on the political left.
 

JosephsDreams

Senior Member
Dec 31, 2015
4,313
467
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Do you think she may just be a compulsive liar?
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
Bernie Sanders is raising taxes on those making Over 250,000 a year, which is upper class, NOT middle class!!
You could tax the whole world and not pay for all the programs Comrade Bernie wants
 
M

Mitspa

Guest
I agree. She is very honest and respectful. I find myself liking her very much. I'm sorry to say that is not the norm of those on the political left.
Yea for a lefty. .she is not that bad
 
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KimPetras

Guest
Welfare takes away the right for people to fail. Big government shouldn't come with the middle classes money and bail out those who have not been able to make it. If some one isn't making it then they should work harder, not get a free-be. That's what their friends and family are for. Plus socialism is for big government, and I think all government should do is creat laws and protect its citizens with the military, not tell me how to raise my kids and spend my money.
Interesting how Republicans and Democrats (under Bush's reign) voted for the bail out of Wall Street and big banks (too big too fail), but that isn't "socialism"... it's only socialism when you help people who either trying to better themselves or are incapable of helping themselves.

Sometimes things aren't black or white... but black, white, and grey. A capitalistic state can thrive with socialistic programs. The US was able to thrive with such hybrid. There absolutely needs to be a hybrid of capitalism and socialism for a state to thrive... capitalism alone is destructive as is complete socialism (and communism). Socialistic programs covers the areas that capitalism fails in (cutthroat business where one person can get ahead at the expense of another man's loss). Both have good, both have bad.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
Interesting how Republicans and Democrats (under Bush's reign) voted for the bail out of Wall Street and big banks (too big too fail), but that isn't "socialism"... it's only socialism when you help people who either trying to better themselves or are incapable of helping themselves.

Sometimes things aren't black or white... but black, white, and grey. A capitalistic state can thrive with socialistic programs. The US was able to thrive with such hybrid. There absolutely needs to be a hybrid of capitalism and socialism for a state to thrive... capitalism alone is destructive as is complete socialism (and communism). Socialistic programs covers the areas that capitalism fails in (cutthroat business where one person can get ahead at the expense of another man's loss). Both have good, both have bad.
The America. Capitalism is the ONLY thing keeping the whole world economy going...if America goes socalist...the whole world is doomed to poverty
 
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KimPetras

Guest
You could tax the whole world and not pay for all the programs Comrade Bernie wants
No one is asking for the world to pay taxes to the US, all Bernie wants to do is tax the millionaires and billionaires so they pay a higher percentage in taxes than their secretaries. You underestimate the tax breaks they get. Unless Warren Buffet is an evil man with an evil agenda, I see no reason to believe why his tax comparison of his and his secretary is false or inaccurate.
 

Utah

Banned
Dec 1, 2014
9,701
252
0
Interesting how Republicans and Democrats (under Bush's reign) voted for the bail out of Wall Street and big banks (too big too fail), but that isn't "socialism"... it's only socialism when you help people who either trying to better themselves or are incapable of helping themselves.

Sometimes things aren't black or white... but black, white, and grey. A capitalistic state can thrive with socialistic programs. The US was able to thrive with such hybrid. There absolutely needs to be a hybrid of capitalism and socialism for a state to thrive... capitalism alone is destructive as is complete socialism (and communism). Socialistic programs covers the areas that capitalism fails in (cutthroat business where one person can get ahead at the expense of another man's loss). Both have good, both have bad.
I was completely against bailing out Wall Street. The tax dollars that went to Wall Street was the taxpayers' money and it should have gone back to us. That would have helped stimulate the economy.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
No one is asking for the world to pay taxes to the US, all Bernie wants to do is tax the millionaires and billionaires so they pay a higher percentage in taxes than their secretaries. You underestimate the tax breaks they get. Unless Warren Buffet is an evil man with an evil agenda, I see no reason to believe why his tax comparison of his and his secretary is false or inaccurate.
Sorry I don't drink Bernie cool aid. ..and don't need a socalist to make things fair for me.. God has given me all the fairness I need in this capitalistic system...and anyone willing to work and save and invest with wisdom can have a good life in America
 
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KimPetras

Guest
The America. Capitalism is the ONLY thing keeping the whole world economy going...if America goes socalist...the whole world is doomed to poverty
Fortunately, not even Bernie wants the US to be completely socialist.

I know it's difficult for some to understand, but socialism and capitalism can co-exist. Not only can it... it has for the US for decades.

I know Republicans hate the idea of the state intervening in economics (they will shout "socialism" and/or "communism"), but had the US listened to people like Sanders about Wall Street's lack of regulation along with the corruption of big banks, I don't think there would have been the economic disaster of 2008 that we saw.
 
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KimPetras

Guest
Sorry I don't drink Bernie cool aid. ..and don't need a socalist to make things fair for me.. God has given me all the fairness I need in this capitalistic system...and anyone willing to work and save and invest with wisdom can have a good life in America
I think you mean, "in this hybrid capitalism/socialism system". :eek:

No one can argue that the US isn't already a hybrid.
 
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Mitspa

Guest
Why can't you Bernie babes get it? Socialism don't work...never has .. ,never will ....
 
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Mitspa

Guest
I think you mean, "in this hybrid capitalism/socialism system". :eek:

No one can argue that the US isn't already a hybrid.
So even if true In your estimation. . We should stop the fall from freedom now.